December 27, 2013

A&E’s humble pie [Darleen Click]

As several PW regulars have already noted, Duck Dynasty‘s Phil Robertson is back

The network suspended Robertson last Thursday after he compared gays to “drunks” and “terrorists” in a GQ interview in which he also said African-Americans were perfectly happy before Civil Rights. (huge SIC)

But the network suffered a huge backlash from “Duck Dynasty” fans and social conservatives, who said it had limited Robertson’s right to free speech.

Also from TheWrap: ‘Duck Dynasty’: Twitter Apologizes for ‘Mistakenly’ Blocking IStandWithPhil.com

Now might be the time for GLAAD to humbly sit down with the Robertson family to learn tolerance of The Other.

Live and Let Live.

Posted by Darleen @ 5:28pm
105 comments | Trackback

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Comments (105)

  1. But… but… but only heteroerotic xtians are capable of intolerance, because STRAIGHT PRIVILEGE!!!

  2. Brace yourself for the “this isn’t a free speech issue” crowd.

  3. Jaysus on a Pony, cranky, the “how dare A&E have bigots that offend me!” are tinkling all over Twitter.

    I keep asking them how Phil’s opinion on what is “sin” affects them since he never says a thing about wanting The Law to enforce it.

    “but but but it’s the PRINCIPLE.”

    “calling gay sex a ‘sin’ is a LIE!”

    It’s like dealing with a bunch of kindergartners on a sugar high with no more candy in the room

  4. >David Burge @iowahawkblog
    Follow
    @ChrisBarnhart @exjon I’ve got 10 bucks that says A&E is now a GLAAD “Premier Corporate Donor.”
    6:26 PM – 27 Dec 2013<

    link

  5. would the backlash have been sufficient to bring daddy duck back if Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin and Bobbby Jindal hadn’t rushed to claim daddy duck’s message for the Republican party?

    it’s just

    there’s just now way to know

  6. *no* way to know I mean

  7. Yes, happy. The backlash about Gay & E’s decision has been mighty. Jindal and Palin merely appearing as cameos.

  8. Darleen,

    A few months ago, I got in a FB spat with a bunch of college-aged kids about sin. It was truly astonishing how stupid they were.

  9. Twitter Apologizes for ‘Mistakenly’ Blocking IStandWithPhil.com

    In Other News, Japan apologizes for ‘Mistakenly’ bombing Pearl Harbor…

    (I wonder how often those “mistakes” affect progressive groups negatively? Not really, but hypocrisy is always fun to point out.)

  10. >Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin and Bobbby Jindal hadn’t rushed to claim daddy duck’s message for the Republican party?<

    aren't they in the nespresso party? or at least in tea and crumpets section?

  11. no mr. cruz from canada via daddy is from cuber so he is definitely nespresso party.

  12. i tend to agree leigh but

    I need to think on it some more

    the nespresso party is ridiculously inclusive Mr. newrouter you just have to own something silk you can slink around in as you enjoy your extravagantly luxurious rich-tasting coffees and select teas

  13. We’ll HF, Google Robert Short

  14. leigh

    I just cannot understand the histrionics over some else calling something a “sin” when it doesn’t affect me. And if any of these Lefties were watching DD in the first place!

    It’s Mrs Grundy (or Mrs Kravitz) on steriods with her own private shock troops.

    Change the bloody channel!

  15. he sounds like a wise and learned man of god steph I’m a raise my glass to him later

    I have to go pick up my friend F first before I can have a drink he was in a car accident so he needs to borrow my car

    car accidents are shitty I really hate them but at least nobody was hurt

    if you want a giggle these are the minimum liability requirements in failifornia:

    $15,000 for injury/death to one person.
    $30,000 for injury/death to more than one person.
    $5,000 for damage to property.

  16. Well becomes We’ll?
    Sheesh

  17. Also

    I understand that some one can really be sincere about worrying about my soul and wanting me to be right with the Lord. I try not to take offense at such sincerity.

    It’s at least offered in a more mannerly way than PETA people getting naked and writing “meat is murder” on their flabby tits and flat asses.

  18. Robert Short sounds like a Man of God as does Phil Robertson.
    Read The gospel according to Peanuts.

  19. Darleen,

    The kids were doing so much pearl-clutching it was like talking to a bunch of fifty year old virgins. In 1975. Merely explaining biblical concerns and Catholic doctrine was enough to bring on a raft of “fuck you, you hater!!!!!11111!” and a lot of misquoting of the gospels. Keeping calm and carrying on eventually peels off the ring-leaders (who fancy themselves wicked smaht) as soon as their lieutenants say “gee, you may have a point there” to me.

    Heh.

  20. I need to think on it some more

    That’s a good idea, happy. Things are changing and God is pissed.

  21. I think god doesn’t get pissed Leigh. I think god gets distressed. He offers a perfect plan, and we say, Meh!.

  22. God gave us free will and we’ve been acting like that means God isn’t watching.

    Retributive God has had many centuries off. I’m hedging my bets and keeping the faith.

  23. 4 US Servicemen are in Libyan custody. What in the hell is this?

  24. We’ve been acting like that means God doesn’t exist. Which makes us God.

    That never works.

  25. >What in the hell is this?<

    go ask hillary she's 5' tall

  26. 4 US Servicemen are in Libyan custody. What in the hell is this?

    Kind of resets the meter over there, doesn’t it?

  27. friday night house of mirrors email

    Thanks for standing with our Republican team and fighting for our conservative principles.

    As we prepare the battleground for 2014, we need patriots like you by our side now more than ever.

    2014 will be an uphill battle, as we’re going up against the well-stocked Obama Machine that’s determined to take total control of Washington and continue to fundamentally transform America.

    We must protect our principles and defend our basic liberties by defeating these liberal bureaucrats.

    You and I know what makes America an exceptional nation. It’s not just a matter of who we are. It’s the record of what we’ve done.

    We have stood and fought for freedom, opportunity and free enterprise. But sadly, under the reign of President Obama and Washington Liberals, these founding, fundamental American principles are under attack.

    That’s what’s at stake this election. That’s what we’re fighting for to defend. And that’s why it’s essential that you commit to our cause by contributing right now.

    The RNC needs to raise millions of dollars to build their ground operation, enhance their engagement with voters in all communities, and arm the GOP grassroots army with critical data and technology.

    We must do the hard work now to get Republicans elected up and down the ballot who will fight for our commonsense, conservative policies and make our communities and our country stronger.

    Let’s band together to defeat Democrats and defend our principles in 2014.

    Show you’re committed to helping secure GOP victories in 2014 — contribute $14 to the RNC end of year campaign.

    Thanks,

    Senator John McCain

  28. Why isn’t John in the Old Senator’s Home again?

  29. >We must protect our principles and defend our basic liberties by defeating these liberal bureaucrats.<

    just don't "partially shut down the fed gov't" says fat megan's daddy.

  30. Robertson is just paraphrasing the Bible and the Bible is tough on people who are habitual sinners of a certain bent.
    You can’t do an honest translation of the Bible without noticing it is a little rough on homosexual sin.
    I saw the other day that a Methodist minister was defrocked because he officiated the same sex wedding ceremony of his son. Cue the outrage where there should be a ho hum yawn. If you want to perform a same sex marriage fine. But you are not a Methodist anymore.
    Back to Robertson, I thing we will see more of him saying similar stuff. He is an evangelical Christian under the imperative to share God’s word.
    Penn Jillette had this to say about evangelizing:
    “I’ve always said that I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and a hell, and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life, and you think that it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward—and atheists who think people shouldn’t proselytize and who say just leave me along and keep your religion to yourself—how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?

    “I mean, if I believed, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that a truck was coming at you, and you didn’t believe that truck was bearing down on you, there is a certain point where I tackle you. And this is more important than that.”

    Clearing Robertson believes that all types of sinners; from drunkards to those engaging in bestiality and everything in between are in mortal danger. And his Bible tells him to go out into the world and spout off about it.

  31. >And his Bible tells him to go out into the world and spout off about it. <

    moloch needs a tower of babel

  32. Does this mean . . . GLAAD is . . . eating . . . duck?

  33. Just popping in to say that my sister shared two awfully funny SNL bits with me recently, both from the episode with Jimmy Fallon and Justin Timberlake: The Barry Gibb Talk Show and Family Feud, featuring Timberlake doing a Fallon imitation with Fallon standing right there as another character.

    Forgive me if they’ve already been posted here, but they’re worth posting again. Actual good comedy from SNL deserves a mention, being like chicken’s teeth anymore and all.

  34. > A+E has chosen profits over African American and gay people <

    hi proggtarded anus and flash mob

  35. >“Phil Robertson should look African American and gay people in the eyes and hear about the hurtful impact of praising Jim Crow laws< that demonrat pols enacted. mock them clowns to their fullest

  36. A&E’s accountants explained to the network honchos that their creditors prefer to be repaid with dollars instead of PC bona fides.

  37. no shit

    how dare A&E give their audience* what they want!

    *the part of the audience that doesn’t belong to GLAAD at any rate.

  38. Sounds like GLAAD needs to get acquainted with Dr Sowell. For example, here is a tidbit from 1998:

    You don’t even need to leave Washington, D.C., to see that discrimination is not the be-all and end-all depicted by Clinton and his supporters. Until the 1950s, the Washington public school system was racially segregated and discrimination was rampant. Yet the black academic high school in Washington held its own and often outperformed most of the white academic high schools in the city on tests as far back as 1899, nearly a century ago.

    Today, with far more resources and a city controlled by blacks, there is no hope of any such academic performance within the foreseeable future. There are many reasons for this, but the all-purpose explanation of discrimination just does not fit these facts.

    You are not going to solve today’s problem with yesterday’s rhetoric

    Same old song…

  39. *the part of the audience that doesn’t belong to GLAAD at any rate.

    You will note that GLAAD didn’t have a thing to say about the show or any of the contents of any of the episodes, only the GQ article. Anyone who has actually watched the show either wouldn’t be likely to read GQ, or would not be surprised or offended by any of the things said in that article.

    The Venn diagram:

    Duck Dynasty fans –> 0 0 <– GLAAD/GQ readers

  40. >Yet the black academic high school in Washington held its own and often outperformed most of the white academic high schools in the city on tests as far back as 1899, nearly a century ago.<

    be actin' white oreo

  41. as a proggtard i think the darkies should avoid “white priviledge™”

  42. big anus loser big vaginia befuddled

  43. Only because this was cultural more than political, and because Phil Robertson isn’t a Republican office holder.

    We’re he, Karl Rove and the whole sorry lot of reasonable pragmatic bi-partisan cowards would have reflexively denounced him, and the Left would have got what they wanted.

  44. there’s just now way to know

    - Well, unless you are satient and can read you mean, because its altogether possible that 250,000 unsolicited protest signitures in less than a week might have, you know, had some fucking thing to do with it you yellow rodent dip shit.

  45. Forget it Jake,

    –it’s griefertown

  46. they must’ve made daddy duck promise to reel it in is my guess

  47. I was wondering if someone could point me to the transcript of the part where Robertson praises Jim Crow laws… the part that I saw said no such thing….

  48. My guess is your guess is wrong.

  49. I wouldn’t crow too much about A&E’s humble pie or GLAADs having been thwarted. A&E will be able to salve their wounds with truckloads of DD ca$h, and you can’t embarrass GLAAD since they have no shame.

    The only victory that is real with these people is if you hit them in their pocketbook.

  50. >they must’ve made daddy duck promise to reel it in is my guess <

    yes homos suck, bite sumthing not darwin related. go fer it darwin deniers.

  51. - The whole thing did serve a secondary purpose…it helped a little to take the glarring spotlight off of Bumblefucks signiture failure.

  52. darwin deniers cause global warming. hi algore!

  53. - But OCare is the guiness book of records gift that keeps on giving, and will for years to come until it finally dies off.

  54. >it helped a little to take the glarring spotlight off of Bumblefucks signiture failure. <

    nah that be back in force 8-10/14. they be droppin' from big biz

  55. they must’ve made daddy duck promise to reel it in is my guess

    Considering the whole family was ready to walk away, with the nine figures of income going with them, Daddy Duck could have easily told them, “Ain’t no way am I gonna stop talkin’ about Truth, son…”, and they would have said, “You’re absolutely right, we’ll shut up now.”

    And DD laughs as he hangs up the phone.

  56. the fag lobby meets reality. duck call.

  57. sorry the lbgtxyz clowns are psycchos. go to cuber they got “free” health care

  58. It was kind of fun watching people twist themselves into knots praising the parts of the Bible that tell us to share while ignoring the parts that rail against covetousness, and now I get to see them call a guy who is paraphrasing the Bible’s words on sexual sin an intolerant bigot.
    Who knew that talking about what the Bible says in Galatians and Romans is hate speech.
    Christianity is kind of funny about requiring that you actually embrace the entirety of the message before carving it up into the parts you like and dislike yet it isn’t uncommon to read someone who sees themself as Christian, but who doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ.
    I think the Bible makes it very clear that sexual sins are a different breed because of the sexual union, where two become one and it is again clear that homosexual pratices can be particularly problematic and are to be avoided. So if I am a gay Christian, I have to be honest and understand that comes with the territory. So if a preacher gets all fired up and reads a little Galatians, I don’t need to get the vapors.
    A wise person once told me that we all sin and we are forgiven, but to watch out for becoming rebellious, for living in a state of rebellion. That never ends well

  59. OT: can somebody please explain what the hell this means? The fate of the Justice League’s watchtower (and the happiness of the Schreiber kinder depends upon it!

    Hero Strategies:
    Remember the Justice League is a team of heroes—they work best when they work together! Planning ahead and talking about when to use powers and who should use them can mean the difference between victory and defeat.

    Batman:
    Master Strategist –Normally teammates can’t play cards during your turn and thus would not be able to add extra die rolls or use abilities from Power Cards during your combat, but Master Strategist allows this to happen. Keep in mind this does not allow teammates to do solo combat on Batman’s turn, play cards that add die rolls for team combat, or use their other abilities. This is a great ability to use when you and your teammates need to take out a very strong villain— particularly those Ultra Villains you’ll need more die rolls to capture.

    Here is one example of many possible scenarios with Master Strategist: The Batman player moves to the space with Darkseid and declares an attack against Darkseid, but before rolling he uses his Master Strategist ability allowing other heroes to play Power Cards during his combat round. The Superman player then plays a Power Card and uses his Faster Than a Speeding Bullet ability to move himself and the Green Lantern player over to the same space as Batman and Darkseid. Then the Green Lantern player plays a Power Card and uses his Shielded Flight ability to bring the Flash player to the same space as everyone else. Now all four heroes are fighting the strongest Ultra Villain together and can still play Power Cards to add die rolls and improve their chances of capturing the strongest villain in the game.

    Is that a comma splice in “Keep in mind this does not allow teammates to do solo combat on Batman’s turn, play cards that add die rolls for team combat, or use their other abilities.”?

    Because it seems to me that in their example of how to use Batman’s Master Strategist ability, that they did everything they just told you that you couldn’t do, except for the solo combat thing; and using the other players’ Power Cards against villains other than Darkseid I guess.

    Where’s our tech writer when you need her?

  60. Oh no, I’m having ‘young cousins trying to talk to me about Yu Gi OH’ flashbacks…
    (And their mother was so disappointed “But you’re a nerd, I thought you’d know about this stuff…”)

  61. It’s like kids coming to you with a tough four player bridge problem only it involves magic powers and weird jargon and a Japanese saturday morning cartoon somehow.

  62. I think it is a list of a series of things that Master Strategist cannot do. separated by commas.

    Batman’s Master Strategist ability lets the other heroes use a “power card” to move into combat range. Normally they could play no cards whatsoever in Batman’s turn and only Batman could play cards, but now they can use abilities from their “power cards” on his turn.

    But they can’t attack on Batman’s turn, they have to wait for their own respective turns? So it sets Darkseid up for a series of attacks from each of them as their turn comes up, without them having to waste a move to get into attack range? Are their attack cards distinct from power cards and are they divided into solo attack cards and team attack cards? And are there cards that add die rolls to team combat and solo combat? Maybe they can all team attack Darkseid AFTER Batman’s term?

    And mayb Batman’s ability allows the use of “power cards” abilities and bonuses but NOT solo attacks or “team attacks” cards (which might be a different thing)?

    So it does allow:

    use of an ability from another player’s power card during Batman’s turn
    adding die rolls to Batman’s solo combat (but not team combat),

    does not allow :

    other players doing a solo attacks on batman’s turn
    adding die rolls to team attack on batman’s turn

    Does that make any sense?

    Maybe you should switch to Gold Key/Dell and get into games about Magnus the Robot Fighter, Turok Son of Stone, and Doctor Solar?

  63. - At some point you need to put down the jelly donut and move away from the table.

  64. Jelly Donuts don’t have feelings and are not self aware so putting them down is a waste of time. And then there is the insurmountable problem of the communication barrier…

    Still: “What a shitty little fried pastry you are! You could have been an eclair or a bear claw but you’re just stale truck stop trash on cheap melmac plate. Du bist ein enttäuschung. “

  65. If you don’t believe in God* you shouldn’t be worried about what exactly someone else believes is a “sin” in the eyes of the God unless they want to use the power of the state to punish the sin.

    If you do believe in God, you are free to do a little theological research** and create an interpretation that allows your behavior. Start your own church, people do it all the time.

    *Allah, or flying spaghetti monster whatever

    **I do mean real study. I think that because of the various languages the Bible has been through, that a clever person has enough wiggle room to make reasonable alternative interpretations.

  66. You heard it here first, Guys! This has been a media-gambit from day one. And everyone, from GLAAD to Sarah Palin has pocketed a gain. Watch for more of this as media attempt to consolidate their consumers before 2016.

    Not OT, really: Some PW’er above thinks that teh Ghey is not ‘darwinian.’ I beg to differ: casual petting, beard-rubbing and even penetrative sex between men has historically been a technique for organizing platoons and ranks among military and hunting brigades. Insofar as troop or hunting-party cohesion is enhanced by sexual bonding among officers and their enlisteds, teh Ghey compliments the procreative elements of the society by winning more wars and bringing home more meat for them. Also, historically, nothing that occurred out on a hunt or in a warrior encampment precluded the virile man from loving women and fathering his heirs between campaigns. What happens Vegas, stays in Vegas!

    (Note: Classicists like Victor David Hansen never venture a disquisition on this aspect of Greco-Roman war-making lest it distract his Catholic readers from his historical theses. This censorship is acute on all sides of the political divide, and it hobbles our understanding of antiquated cultures in general. Sociology is particularly stricken by this.)

    The promotion of the metrosexual, Gay lifestyle, so strongly advocated by GLAAD and others in the Urban Left, is a modern invention, tho. And an unnatural one at that, as it pigeonholes the individual in an artificial politicicized “identity” for his entire lifespan based on a male’s rejection of procreative copulation with Women.

    Capital ‘D’ dumb is the word to describe that. And, yes, Darwinian selection condemns that modern perversion; it’s a one-way road to the species’ suicide!

    I don’t want to poke this thread any further, ‘cept to say that, despite the fusillade of sexually transmitted diseases that Dame Nature lobs at sexual promiscuity in general, Natural Law and Darwinian selection do not prohibit M2M sex. If they did, it would not be the permanent accessory to Humanity that it remains today.

  67. VDH has specifically Catholic readers? That’s odd.

    steveaz, you have many thoughts jammed in that wallotext. You’re a smart guy, but you need to work on your organizational skills and presentation.

  68. they must’ve made daddy duck promise to reel it in is my guess

    Heh. GLAAD’s EffemiNazis are now on the warpath!.

    OT slightly, Utah’s raping by dictat – SSM is heading to SCOTUS, for the next Real Big Fight…

    Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, writing for the majority in Windsor, said “the definition and regulation of marriage” is generally “within the authority and realm of the separate states.” That would seem to suggest that voters in Utah were entitled to amend their state’s Constitution to ban same-sex marriage.

    But Justice Kennedy also stressed the harm to individual liberty in denying equal marriage rights. That counts in the plaintiffs’ favor in the Utah case.

    In Windsor, the two interests — states’ rights and gay rights — pointed in the same direction. They were, Judge Shelby wrote, “allied against the ability of the federal government to disregard a state law that protected individual rights.”

    “Here,” he continued, “these interests directly oppose each other.”

    If State’s Rights are any further diminished, this Republic may, and should, be torn down. Why have separate States, if the Federal won’t allow them to differ ?

  69. A ruling in favor of Utah’s amendment would effectively de-overturn California’s Prop. 8.

  70. It remains perplexing to me to hear of States’ rights spoken of in the context of the US Constitution, whereas I seem only to find there rights inhering in people or persons, and where States (on government generally taken, including the Federal) are repeatedly referred to as having powers, powers ceded to them by the people who are sovereign over both the States and the government of Union. But I’m open to learning how the Framers thought differently about this, if indeed they did.

  71. Sorry, that should read “or government generally taken . . .”

  72. steveaz,

    You may find this book of interest.

    From Shame to Sin: The Christian Transformation of Sexual Morality in Late Antiquity (Revealing Antiquity)

  73. A ruling in favor of Utah’s amendment would effectively de-overturn California’s Prop. 8.

    It would at least give Californians a third shot at it, phrasing it exactly as Utah did, and after having the courts overturn an overwhelming majority of voters twice, the backlash is likely to have an even bigger majority than Prop 8 did.

  74. where States (on government generally taken, including the Federal) are repeatedly referred to as having powers, powers ceded to them by the people who are sovereign over both the States and the government of Union

    As Federal Government become monstrous in size and power, by way of decades of new laws and SCOTUS decisions undermining the text of the original constitution, the people have diminished in size and power to what we see now…Lilliputians deprived of enough rope to bind the Gulliver Frankenstein.

  75. sdferr, the several States had the right to send their own representative to the Federal Government (via the State Legislature), just as the People had their Representatives.

    Up until the 17th Amendment, that is…

    (Interestingly enough, this is why the Governor of the State has the vestigial authority to name interim replacements. Like the human body still has an appendix.)

  76. That’s all very well, but how will muddying the terms of the original compact do to reestablish the terms of the original compact? Or have we simply decided to dispense with all that?

  77. States’ Rights is simply sloppy language, nothing more. I always read the phrase as States’ Prerogatives.

  78. Easy-peasy…

    Someone write this down, and we’ll send it off:

    “When in the Course of Human Events, it becomes necessary…” (c’mon, sing along, you know the words!)

    http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/

  79. steveaz

    I don’t believe VDH has “censored” anything. “Sex” per se in Greco-Roman times was very different. And homo-sex had little to do with orientation. It was a tool, not just for military cohesion as you point out but a way of expressing class rank and power.

    A [male] citizen of rank was on one level. Females, slaves and young boys on another. The citizen could express his power by being the penetrator NEVER the penetrated.

    And consent on the part of the penetrated was nothing worried about — especially when it came to male & female slaves.

  80. “We” haven’t decided to dispense with the original compact. “They” have discovered ways to circumvent our founding document, by deceiving enough people so as to accrue for themselves perpetual power to “their” Party, so they can simply overwrite the poor dusty thing.

    How long can it hold up, that ‘confusing 100-year-old’ document, under the blitzkrieg of far-Left re-writes? Until this Republic finally collapses, and either we or they seize what’s remaining, and restore the battered old thing, or, as they would prefer, give it a ‘modern’ re-write it to empower their worldviews going forward.

  81. from geoffb’s link

    Freedom also was a mighty metonym, of which the freedom to decide one’s sexual fate was only one, highly “enriched” part. Above all, it meant “freedom” from “the world.” And by “the world” Christians meant, bluntly, the Roman society of their own times, where unfreedom was shown in its darkest light by the trading and sexual abuse of unfree bodies. It no longer mattered, to Christians, with whose bodies, from which social categories, and in what manner sex might happen. From Paul onward, for Christians, there was right sex—sex between spouses for the production of children; wrong sex—sex outside marriage; and abhorrent sex—sex between same-sex partners. Wrong sex of any kind was a sin. And a sin was a sin. It was not a social faux pas, deemed an outrage in one situation and accepted in another.

    Those Leftwing Bible scholars who sneer “Well the Bible advocates slavery and we don’t do that anymore so GAY SEX!” willfully don’t look at the history in the Bible, nor the language (Hebrew) and context in which it was written. Jews were anti-CHATTEL slavery (indeed the commandment to not steal deals with human beings, too, as the Hebrew word is closer to “kidnap” than it is to the taking of things). Indentured servitude, however, was a permitted way of life in a culture of no banks and attendant institutions. Your labor was your collateral. The Bible then has all manner of restrictions on how your servant/slave is to be treated.

  82. I’ll leave off as the question at hand seems to be of no particular interest.

  83. Leigh,
    Thanks for tugging my chain! I’m always working on my style. It’ll be a life-long struggle with perfection, and I doubt I’ll win in the end.

    And, no, I cannot specify with any accuracy that only Catholics read VDH. But I can guess that, of the entire spectrum of his readers, an orthodox Catholic reader would regret any historical references that might rationalize homosexual behavior more than, say, a disinterested Sociologist would. Religious historians have skin in the game that mere scientists do not.

    Geoff,
    Thanks for the tip. I’ll give it a read

    My ideas on this topic were formed in part by reading Seamus MacManus’ History of the Irish Race (which touches briefly on the Celts’ social clubs which divided upon stark gender lines), and by lessons gained studying sub-Saharan tribal hunting practices. A relish for Greek reliefs, too, hit home: peruse urns, mosaics and letters from Pompei if you need an art-historian’s hint. Also, I spent my formative years living in Arab/Persian countries (Iran, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia/Bahrain). So, a decade spent watching male hand-holding, studying segregated male-female societies and encountering males that, in their beauty, resemble peacocks (few men are as objectively beautiful as the Mediterranean, olive-skinned, aqualine-nosed, near-yellow-eyed, long-limbed Orions of Greece, Lebanon, Arabia and Isreal (note: this aesthetic was not adapted purely for the purpose of attracting females)) all made a size-able impression on me.

    Alas, I cannot ignore either all the documentaries on primate behaviors produced since Jane Goodall first befriended a chimpanzee. And little Desmond Morris, of Naked Ape fame, bless his heart, left an indelible mark, too. This biological legacy of attendant Human ‘sin’ is the one that both the Urban Left and Puritan Catholicism seem intent on censoring together. No matter whether the ‘sin-du jour‘ is patriarchal-militarism or anal intercourse, it unifies the Left and Right in their targeting of Nature’s essential records.

    An aside, but, I worry that attempts to forge a real libertarian alliance to combat the bureaucratic state in modern America based on Natural Law will wilt in the face of this united, anti-intellectual alliance. (Could it be the academic Left knows this, and so they resort to preemptively wielding Teh Ghey as a wedge issue just to curdle the alliance that it knows will be its undoing?)

    All for now…
    -Steve

  84. You’re welcome steveaz. Thanks for the clarification.

    Catholics have a long history of scholarship, unlike many sects of our Protestant brethren, so the aspect of homosexuality in ancient times is not used to justify homosexuality in modernity. As Darleen points out, there was a hierarchy of slaves and sexual partners in the ancient world. Rape, both hetero and homosexual along with sacking cities and killing was part of the spoils of war.

    Of course, none of the historical reasons for homosexuality translate to modernity where it is more a matter of preference than a tool for domination.

    There is an excellent interview with Camille Paglia in yesterday’s WSJ that touches on modern homosexual relationships in a tangential way. The article itself is not about sex or sexual preferences, but about where we are headed as a society.

  85. steveinaz

    The Bible flows out of the middle east, rome, greece. We see questions asked and answered about slaves, sex. The Bible speaks about the sin of men lying down with the “soft” a word we’d have translated as “punk”. God usually sides with the weak, but calls out men (and women) for playing into and off of the role.
    God saw all of the nations and races through history that used male domination and homosexuality to advance their kingdoms and said to his people the Israelites and later the Christians… don’t you dare act like the heathen or I will allow you to be destroyed.

    Enter Phil Robertson whose Bible tells him sin will bring down nations… in particular these types of sexual sins will bring down nations. His Bible also contains numerous exhortations to go out to all the world and preach it regardless of the personal consequences.
    Robertson probably doesn’t see himself as attacking gays, rather they just don’t like what his Bible says.
    A graphic translation of the Bible, one where “men lying down with men…..” is replaced with “perverted men of the cities are raping young boys up the ass while out in the countryside perverts are banging the sheep. As your God I am NOT HAPPY” would get you jailed for a hate crime

  86. steveaz,
    You may find this book of interest.
    From Shame to Sin: The Christian Transformation of Sexual Morality in Late Antiquity (Revealing Antiquity)

    Send me your copy when your done with it, okay?

  87. “I was wondering if someone could point me to the transcript of the part where Robertson praises Jim Crow laws… the part that I saw said no such thing….”

    I’m pretty sure Jim Crow was used only by the outraged to give context and power to their outrage.

    Near as I can tell, the racisty racist utterances that branded Phil a racist was:

    “I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field…. They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’—not a word!… Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues.”

  88. My white trash relatives report out the same as Phil’s experiences. You spend all day chopping cotton, cutting grapes and picking fruit, you don’t have much time or energy to get your grievance on.

  89. lee

    the “saw with my eyes” whooshes right over the Grievance Industry’s pointy little head. Robertson was relating his own personal experience. Insular, maybe, but has nothing to do with Jim Crow laws. Indeed, Phil “hoed cotton WITH them?” I’d say he has more “diversity” experience than the average limo-lefty who acts friendly with the black doorman and maid.

  90. GLAAD characterized his remarks as “praising Jim Crow laws”. Would the man have a case for libel or what? Not that he cares, but still.

    I wonder if the grievance mongers know he has an adopted grandson every bit as black as Obama?

  91. Public figure? Almost certainly not. Especially since it would be next to impossible to demonstrate harm.

  92. The newest Phil slander is that someone has dug up a clip of him talking about marriage and the Bible … making a tongue-in-cheek remark about marrying a girl before she’s 20.

    Now Phil is a “sexual predator” or “advocating pedophilia” … he never says what age the MAN should be and, indeed, his own personal experience is that he was 17 when he married his wife who was 16 at the time.

    But hey, if the Left couldn’t invent their own text to argue against, they wouldn’t have anything at all.

  93. SteveG,
    We have no beef between us.

    The Bible’s behavioral prescriptions governing sex represent a cultural adaption in an environment of epidemics, largely driven by the Isrealites’ descendants’ development of agriculture, and their saga of run-ins with high-density, urban living.

    Likewise Catholic rites like Lent assert a crucial damper on socially “mal-adaptive” behaviors, like gluttony and promiscuity, this at a time of inconstant food, internecine feuds and rampant venereal diseases.

    Both are important prophylactics, if I may, for a new and epidemia-logically dangerous time.

    As for the Dynasty’s Phil Robertson’s comments about a woman, you know, “offering more” than a guy (to, like, another guy). Well duh! She can carry your children, she is your partner in raising them, and she’ll watch your back like no other friend (and she makes a keen business partner, to boot)!

    And to this day, it’s a wonder to me that anyone ever found his comments controversial. Makes you wonder what the brouhaha’s really about, huh?

  94. steveaz, Lent is a season of repentance, not a rite, beginning on Ash Wednesday and ending on Easter Sunday. Lent is also observed by Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Anglicans.

  95. I saw a part of a DD episode where Robertson says something like this: “in the south there is an old saying that if you marry a girl at 16 she’ll pick your ducks; if you marry her at 20 she’ll pick your pockets”

    My uncle and aunt married right out of high school and when my cousin’s son wanted to marry his high school girlfriend they wanted to tell him to wait… but they’d followed the family script and what could they say .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA3EcRMG92k

  96. steveG

    That’s the clip… and it’s being portrayed as “proof” that Phil is a pedophile/sexual predator.

  97. 16 year-olds getting married with parent’s permission? PEDOPHILE! (Despite the laws allowing same.)

    14 year-olds getting abortions without parental knowledge? RIGHT TO PRIVACY, TEABAGGER!

  98. 16 year-olds getting married with parent’s permission? PEDOPHILE! (Despite the laws allowing same.)

    That’s parents enabling pedophilia, donjaknow

  99. This is throwing shit to the wall to see what will stick. And the shit need not be real. Imaginary shit sticks sometimes too.

  100. i got me some imaginary purell in my glove compartment brb

  101. David Rothkopf as paraphrased at wikipedia. Notice that we are to eliminate exclusionary aspects of religion

    Culture is sometimes used by the organizers of society — politicians, theologians, academics, and families — to impose and ensure order, the rudiments of which change over time as need dictates. One need only look at the 20th century’s genocides. In each one, leaders used culture as a political front to fuel the passions of their armies and other minions and to justify their actions among their people.
    Rothkopf then cites genocide and massacres in Armenia, Russia, the Holocaust, Cambodia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Rwanda and East Timor as examples of culture (in some cases expressed in the ideology of “political culture” or religion) being misused to justify violence. He also acknowledges that cultural imperialism in the past has been guilty of forcefully eliminating the cultures of natives in the Americas and in Africa, or through use of the Inquisition, “and during the expansion of virtually every empire.”.The most important way to deal with cultural influence in any nation, according to Rothkopf, is to promote tolerance and allow, or even promote, cultural diversities that are compatible with tolerance and to eliminate those cultural differences that cause violent conflict:
    Multicultural societies, be they nations, federations, or other conglomerations of closely interrelated states, discern those aspects of culture that do not threaten union, stability, or prosperity (such as food, holidays, rituals, and music) and allow them to flourish. But they counteract or eradicate the more subversive elements of culture (exclusionary aspects of religion, language, and political/ideological beliefs). History shows that bridging cultural gaps successfully and serving as a home to diverse peoples requires certain social structures, laws, and institutions that transcend culture. Furthermore, the history of a number of ongoing experiments in multiculturalism, such as in the European Union, India, South Africa, Canada and the United States, suggests that workable, if not perfected, integrative models exist. Each is built on the idea that tolerance is crucial to social well-being, and each at times has been threatened by both intolerance and a heightened emphasis on cultural distinctions. The greater public good warrants eliminating those cultural characteristics that promote conflict or prevent harmony, even as less-divisive, more personally observed cultural distinctions are celebrated and preserved.[38]

  102. “you can’t embarrass GLAAD since they have no shame.”

    No, but once they lose momentum, are blunted in an advance, and don’t scare people like sponsors quite as much they’ll start hearing Tom Petty’s “Don’t Come Around Here No More” on their radio instead of Status Quo’s ” Whatever You Want”.

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