Thanksgiving — play it safe? Stir the pot? [Darleen Click] UPDATED
Thanksgiving this year is going to be, to say the least, a lively event in politically-blended families. Some such families have a rule about no politics, some will leave those discussions for after dinner to pick at each other as they pick at the turkey carcass…
And some families will have members engaging in open warfare over the appetizers and first cocktails.
I’m pretty happy that my immediate family is pretty cohesive in our political outlook, and I look forward to sitting with my dad while the two of us try to outdo each other in mocking the intellectually-bereft Left.
However, I know many of you will either be the minority voice at your family gathering or there is that “special” uncle or cousin that is going to get into your face with Obama-Sore-Winner syndrome.
So what will be your strategy this year? Opening lines?
Discuss & share!
I wonder how Jim Geraghty would try and persuade this person?
I’m going to post the exchange I’ve been having with a person I haven’t seen in several decades. I had no idea of his politics until he took offense at my citation of Newbusters article on Rachel Maddow’s dance of moral equivalency regarding Hamas and Israel by pretending not to know “how it all started.”
Now what I’ve written to him contains a lot of thing you’ve seen me write before, so feel free to skip. Indeed, this is more an exercise in watching a trainwreck and if that’s not for you, carry on!
[HIM] I cannot believe a supposedly intelligent person can spout such absurd nonsense as come from you and those like you. You are either ABSOLUTELY NAIVE (which i don’t believe) or you actually know that your party is full of crap and don’t care. The idea of blowing Benghazi out of proportion to call people LIARS when you have no clue YOURSELF what the truth is ..is outrageous. DOES 9/11 ring a bell ? When Bush allowed us to get attacked and kill thousands ? and then LIED us into a war with IRAQ ? Please Darleen… you don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Don’t tell me about Israel. I am a Jew with friends and relatives there. I am also a VERY WELL INFORMED citizen on politics and you embrace LIES and distortions. I have no use for trying to educate conservative ideologues who have a blind partisan allegiance to a party of liars. Republicans tried to use the debt ceiling debate as a tool to hold the country hostage to their partisan ideology and purposely caused us to have our credit rating lowered and HURT OUR ECONOMY. They are guilty of treason in my opinion. They should absolutely be voted out of office. You had a crew of idiots running for president ..from Michelle Bachman, Herman 999 Cain, Rick OOPS Perry, etc. And finally ended up with the serial LIAR Mitt Romney. Anyone who could ignore all of his flip flops and LIES, and pandering to each group he was in front of..and SUPPORT that person for president is truly an incompetent voting citizen. I am done. Not interested in reading your propaganda or engaging you in a battle of wits…because you are unarmed.
[ME] XXX, I’m not asking you to “educate” me. I’m not an ideological Republican because the GOP establishment is as interested in holding on to government power as is the Democrats. I’m a classical liberal aka Constitutional Conservative. I’ve been interested in current events and politics since my dad started me on newspaper reading when I was 10 (he started in the newspaper biz in the 50s).
In the words of Dennis Prager, I’m more about clarity than agreement.
I’m sorry you have gotten so angry with me over the jousting about politics, especially since the Leftists have won this round. You keep asserting things without substantiation. We KNOW that Susan Rice told falsehoods on the Sunday shows about Benghazi. Whether she knowingly told those falsehoods is unknown and still under investigation. But she was handed a false narrative that she unquestionably carried on with. Doesnt speak well for her. Petraeus has already testified that his immediate memos of Al Qaeda’s involvement in Benghazi were redacted.
You have not given me one so-called “lie” that Mitt told. Obviously, Harry Reid lied about Mitt, but that doesn’t count?
You still haven’t answered about Israel. Do you REALLY think they started this round of violence? How am I “embracing lies” when I say that people who make a moral equivalency between Israel & Hamas are morally bankrupt? That’s an opinion based on my understanding of the facts on the ground. I could be mistaken, and you can give me facts to show where I’m mistaken, but that doesn’t make my opinion a “lie.” I have close family & friends who are Jewish. The 1967 war started on my b-day, RFK was assassinated by a Palestinian on my b-day. I have always been pro-Israel so I don’t see how that is so infuriating to you.
People DIED at Benghazi and now Turbo Tax Timmy is saying he wants unlimited authorization to borrow? How close to we have to get to Greece before the unconscionable spending stops?
I do NOT “belong to the Government” and it is NOT my God/Father/Husband. I’m not #Julia and I don’t wish a life of serfdom on my fellow citizens. That is what I see will be the result of a Leftist “fundamental transformation” of America into Europe.
If you’re ever interested in real, substantive political debate, I’ve been writing for years at proteinwisdom.com You’re welcome to stop by, but there are some very sharp people there that will challenge you to present substance, not just assertions.
I’m sorry we got off on such a bad foot. Peace be with you.
[HIM] By the way, You should view this video to educate yourself on THE FACTS. This is Rachel Maddow having a discussion with Richared Engel about the Israel – Palestinian conflict. Objective observation will show that she supports Israel and is anti – Hammas. This report takes place in 2009 but sounds very much like the current conflict. YOU WILL NOTICE the screen behind her says WILD WORLD OF SCARY.. which is the expression used in the story you posted. This phrase being used in the video leads me to believe that your post was ACTUALLY a portion of her comments from this report in 2009 rather than the current conflict as you led the readers to believe. (you and whoever sent it to you) IN FACT, I believe you eroneously think those comments were recent. Your post is the typical tactic of taking comments “out of context” to change the entire meaning of the message. I know you republicans HATE facts and putting comments into ACTUAL context…BUT HERE IS THE contest of her report. Her report, as most of her reporting, is designed to INFORM and EDUCATE. She is educating the listeners on the history of the conflict.
Watch this if you REALLY care about truth. If you are just devoted to demonizing the other side, then you will ignore this opportunity to be educated. And once you are proven wrong…. I will , of course, expect silence from you. I know you would never admit being wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpP6o7-beNc
[ME] The report has her current remarks on Gaza AND also refers to, as background, to the video you post. No confusion here, both were posted. The author points it out to contrast her balanced approach as part of Air-America to her current statements. To quote the author of the piece “Notice how Maddow did mention the context — Israel launching air strikes in Gaza in response to rockets being fired at Israelis. This was back when Maddow was on the fringe-left, now-defunct Air America Radio. In other words, she was more balanced in her coverage then, at least when it came to Israel and Hamas, than she is now with a much larger audience on MCNBC.”
Why should I be silent? If NB was posting an old clip claiming it was new, I’d agree with you. But they posted both, referred to both, as compare & contrast.
[HIM] If you require me to point out Romney’s lies it is a worthless endeavor. There are tons of obvious lies. A book the size of watt and peace could be completed compiling his lures. I find out unbelievable that any objective observer would question that our require examples. As for assertions without facts….how can you make a claim like that when your texts are filled with unsupportive assertions. Harry Reid obviously lied about mitts taxes ??? Obviously ? Because you say so? I don’t believe he lied. I believe Mitt did not pay taxes for many years. I will find the recent article that explains how he did it. It wasn’t illegal. He just used creative accounting to pay zero taxes . Why do you think he refused to show them . OBVIOUSLY he is hiding something Big !. See what is obvious to me..you refuse to acknowledge even though it is comin sense . He easily could have proven Harry a liar by simply showing good taxes. How powerful that would have been to his campaign….but he didn’t…hmm why would that be. Common serve would suggest that Harry was correct. What is your constitutional conservative explanation for you passing on the opportunity to prove Harry lied ?? Obama and the democrats are for the middle class , the poor, the workers . Republicans are for the super wealthy and giant corporations. Anyone that votes for repubs that are not millionaires and corporations are voting against their own interests.
ME XXX, I work in DA office. I’m not an attorney, but you know assertions w/o evidence just doesn’t make it to filing a case. Unless you think Price Waterhouse is corrupt then Romney has filed, and paid, taxes for years. Indeed, he also gives away huge amounts to charity AND has for years given of his personal time to helping others. Those stories came out at the convention … of him helping a dying boy, of bringing food to a struggling family, of stopping work and organizing a search for a missing 14 y/o. Story after story (and yet not one equivalent story about the Obamas). Romney’s taxes involve hundreds of pages which include privileged information on other people who do not consent to have it divulged. Do you think for one moment if Romney had done any cheating that the IRS would NOT have been sic’ed on him like this admin has sic’d the IRS on other private citizens that have displeased it? Obama has outdone Nixon on the Enemies List thing.
And please don’t make me laugh with the sophomoric & Lamestream media promoted meme of Obama “for the poor” and GOP for “the rich”. It’s redistribution v Liberty … equality of outcome v equality of opportunity … takers v makers … covetousness v self-reliance
Obama has plenty of Big Business & Evil Rich support … it’s called “corporatism” . What confiscatory income taxes do to “the rich” (how 250K is EVIL rich would be risible if not so disgusting) is not really affect the current wealth assets of the already super rich, it protects them from other upstarts GETTING rich. It closes the door and puts alligators in the moat.
Tell me … how’s a small business, say a trucking company with 72 drivers, $6 mil payroll, supposed to expand and grow with all the thousands of pages of new regulations and onerous new taxes now to be paid because, well, RICH NEED TO PAY MORE?
Now I could do anecdotal all day long. However, Gov’s own data shows the EEVVVILLLEEE Rich already pay the most in taxes and close to 50% pay NO TAX AT ALL (those Bush tax rates dropped a ton of people off the tax roll … for nefarious evil reasons I’m sure. No non-Leftist does anything without unpure motives, right?)
Isn’t it interesting that RIGHT AFTER the election we get the “oops, sorry the reports were delay” bad news about soaring unemployment, explosion of food stamps and Benghazi.
BTW Nice goal post shifting. No response to Israel. Oky doky then.
Oh … here.
[HIM] Darleen, you live in a conservative “bubble”. You would not acknowledge a FACT or Truth if it smacked into the bubble…because NOTHING gets in. You have a closed mind. You most likely get all of your information from FOX news and other right wing fanatics like yourself. You can stroke each other all you want. I am not going to waste my time sending you proof that you will ignore. If I showed you a copy of Mitt’s taxes showing he didn’t pay them, you would have some dismissive explanation…”forgery”. PULEEZE…he cannot show them because of other’s people’s privacy ?? and you REALLY BELIEVE THAT CRAP ? !!! unbelievable.
What BS that is claiming Romney game so much money to charity.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE MORMON RELIGION in regard to TITHING ?
It is MANDATORY ! He tithed to his church…he did not donate or do anything for non-Mormons. Do you understand that at the end of the year, each Mormon that is part of the approved congregation has to have a meeting with a church official to state whether they have tithed. If the church official believes that he has not given his 10%, he is forbidden to enter the temple. He cannot go to the wedding of a relative if he is not an approved member based upon giving 10% of his income. THAT IS WHAT YOU CALL BEING CHARITABLE ?? BUBBLE !
You accuse me of making statement without evidence…and then you make multiple outrageous claims….WITH NO EVIDENCE. Apparently, your word is gospel.
You accuse me of not responding to a certain part of your diatribe….while you ignore comments I have made because they are either inconvenient or you didn’t get around to those items. I had a short time to reply the last time and only was able to address part of your vast array of accusations and unsubstantiated claims.
WHATEVER. Darleen… .have a good life.
My life is filled with joyful people and my valuable time is not worth trying to educate you. I know you didn’t ask for education. I am just letting you know that you are seriously misinformed on MOST of the topics we have addressed.
Sad that a person that is not a millionaire and not a part of a multi-million or billion dollar corporation would not understand that you support a party that is out of touch with American values…. Has forgotten how and why this nation was formed and is dedicated to making the rich richer and the allowing the rest to just flounder. Thankfully, most of the country agrees with me and we are saved from the incredible damage the republicans would have done if they won the white house. Before long, the Supreme Court will be adjusted to better protect THE PEOPLE. because contrary to what you probably believe ..Corporations ARE NOT people…and Citizens United WILL be eliminated with a constitutional amendment. Sad that you support a party that is trying very hard to destroy the fabric of this country ! Power corrupts and absolute power, absolutely corrupts. Your party PURPOSELY damaged our country for the goal of regaining the power of the white house. These are Disgraceful politicians and a sad shame that naive people believe their deceptions and abuse of the citizens. But there is hope. THE PEOPLE saw Mitt and the republicans for what they are and rejected them.
BYE BYE MITT,, BYE BYE ALAN WEST, BYE BYE Scott Brown, and the rest of the haters that we voted out. We are on the right track as long as we continue to rid D.C. of the destructive members of the republican party including the tea-baggers who would take us down for their own warped reasons.
[ME] When the majority of the media is Left, how can I live in a conservative “bubble”? I read the NYTimes and LASlimes and WaPo and SFGate and etc. I cannot help but know the Leftist memes and dogma down to the last tittle.
You rant against LDS, is that what this is about? Bigotry against Mormons? What has tithing got to do with Mitt’s charitable works? He donates to charity far in excess of what his religious obligations are. And he has donated HIS TIME. Again, not one story can you offer from the Obama’s doing anything like it. Ever.
What claim have I made that is false? You assert, you don’t substantiate.
Can you define American values anymore? Last I looked, it had to do with Liberty, self-reliance, coming together as community ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS to help one another. How about property rights? When did it become UNAmerican to say, yes this is MY business/farm/family I DID BUILD IT? American principles are NOT “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need” < --moto of the Left Which is why studies have shown conservatives give more per capita in time and money to charitable causes than leftists. Charity is what an individual does. Charity is NOT demanding of the Government to seize your neighbor's property to make YOU feel good about yourself. Remember, the Constitution is a document that enumerates the LIMITED powers of the Feds and PROTECTS citizens FROM the government. Yet it is Democrats that are pushing to expand the Leviathan of a Government that involves itself at every stage of our life. Shall I play you the clip of the Obama ad that says "we all belong to the government"? How about the slideshow on Obama's campaign site about "The Life of Julia"? Or the campaign ad by Lena Dunham stating that voting for Obama is like have sex for the first time? Even Pew research has shown that 85% of Obama's campaign was negative. Shall I play you the ad Obama ran that said specifically that Romney wasn't "one of us?" Or how about the post-election survey being done by OFA that asks one to identify from 22 categories what constituency one belongs to --- and "white" and "men" doesn't appear on that list. Sorry, dear, it is not conservatives that have devolved into tribalism. And generally, that's what the Left boils down to. It's all about feelings. As Thomas Sowell points out it is "First Stage Thinking". See you HAVE to demonize anyone that disagrees with you. Non-leftists MUST have evil motives, conservatives NEVER operate with good intentions. You even resort to the laughable lines that Romney, West & Brown are "haters"? To grant that people who differ with you might actually have a point is to suddenly be berift of your superiority so you engage in free-floating ad hominem that has no basis in reality. NONE. You even resort to using a sex-slang term, "teabaggers" without any sense of irony after you accuse conservatives of "hate." How is it that vile cartoons about Condaleeza Rice, or obscene slurs and threats against Mia Love are NOT racism, but questioning the credibility of Susan Rice, who unquestionably spread falsehoods on Benghazi as White House spokesperson IS racism? And again. Absolutely nothing from you about Israel except some bizarre huffiness that I should dare follow up. I demonstrated that you misread the Maddow piece -- no answer. I asked you specifically about Hamas -- no answer. Just high dungeon, offensive accusations and unwillingness to engage in substantive discussion. I'm not really surprised, bless your heart. There's an old attorney saying that goes "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table." All you've shown is you can pound a table. Peace out, brother. I would like to write an article about this exchange. Would you like me to send you a link when it's done? =============================== [HIM] YOU CANNOT BE THIS DENSE AS YOU PRETEND TO BE. Of course, YOU CAN BE IN A BUBBLE WITH MANY SOURCES OF INFORMATION. THAT IS THE FRIGGIN POINT. YOU WOULD NOT NEED A BUBBLE IF WE ONLY HAD FOX NOISE TO RELY ON. THE BUBBLE IS WHAT KEEPS THE OTHER INFORMATION FROM BEING EXAMINED, CONSIDERED, EVALUATED. YOU DON'T ALLOW THE INFORMATION TO EVEN APPROACH EXAMINATION. YOU ARE PERFECTLY CONTENT TO BELIEVE ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT DEMOCRATS, LIBERALS, OBAMA..WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE. BECAUSE YOUR SELECTIVE PERCEPTION IS IN GEAR. YOU ONLY TAKE IN WHAT MATCHES YOUR PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS. It was not a RANT against Mormons. Geez what BS the way you twist things ....again It was education. You claimed he DONATED SO MUCH MONEY TO CHARITY....... I INFORMED YOU THAT THIS IS NOT A DONATION....IT IS AN OBLIGATION. This is known as a FACT. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING AGAINST MORMONS....IT HAD TO DO WITH FACTS.... FACTS FACTS.... DARLEEN YOU CANNOT BE THIS CLUELESS. YOU KNOW WHAT I SAID. YOU ARE SO TYPICAL OF YOUR IDOLS. TWISTING MY WORDS...taking my words out of context and CHANGING THE MEANING OF MY MESSAGE. That is the republican's specialty. YOU SAY I MAKE STATEMENTS WITHOUT EVIDENCE.....BUT YOU DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU, IN FACT, DO THAT CONSTANTLY ! All throughout your all of your rants you make claims and statements as if they are fact...yet supply no evidence. YOU SAY MITT "DONATES" FAR MORE THAN HIS RELIGIOUS OBLIGATION. PROVE IT ! EVIDENCE ! WHERE DO YOU GET THE INFORMATION TO MAKE THE BLANKET STATEMENTS THAT YOU MAKE. FOX NEWS ? I AM NOT GOING TO GO ITEM BY ITEM TO RESPOND TO YOU. MOST PEOPLE YOU AGREE WITH DO NOT BELIEVE IN SCIENCE, EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, FACTS, ...IT IS A WORTHLESS WASTE OF TIME TO TRY TO DEBATE SOMEONE WHO LOOKS AT THE WORLD IN A WARPED AND DISTORTED WAY. ARE YOU KIDDING ????? I CANNOT EVEN STOMACH READING YOUR RHETORICAL GARBAGE. I QUIT WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT PLAYING CLIPS.....AND THE ACCUSATION THAT OBAMA SAID THAT ROMNEY 'ISN'T ONE OF US"... !!!!! WHAT A FRIGGIN JOKE. THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY THAT OBAMA IS NOT "ONE OF US" DURING THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN !! TRYING TO SAY HE IS NOT AMERICAN...."I WISH HE WOULD LEARN TO BE AN AMERICAN" ...HE IS A KENYAN...HE WASN'T BORN HERE...HE IS A MUSLIM.....HE IS A ........ FILL IN THE BLANK...CUZ HE ISN'T ONE OF US ! AND YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY ..NERVE....TO WHINE THAT ROMNEY IS THE VICTIM OF THAT ATTACK. AND BY THE WAY.....DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THE PRIVILEGED LIFE OF ROMNEY..... IN THE 1% OF THE 1% REALLY PUTS HIM IN TOUCH WITH THE AVERAGE AMERICAN ???? CLUE .......HE IS NOT IN TOUCH WITH WHAT MOST AMERICANS EXPERIENCE ! YOU ARE HYSTERICAL.... MAKING ACCUSATIONS AT ME THAT SHOULD BE MADE AT THE MIRROR. JUST WHEN ??? DID YOU GRANT TO ME THE OPENNESS THAT PEOPLE THAT "DIFFER FROM YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE A POINT" CLUE ... YOU NEVER DID. YOU AND YOUR "I WORK FOR A LAWYER" AND AM SO SMART.. AND READ EVERY PUBLICATION PRINTED AND KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING ATTITUDE IS REALLY LAUGHABLE. YOU DO NOT HAVE MY PERMISSION TO SHARE MY PRIVATE MESSAGES IN AN ARTICLE. ARE YOU REALLY WILLING TO DISPLAY YOUR FLAWED REASONING AND LACK OF COMMON SENSE ? SO DO WHAT YOU FEEL YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO. AND i WILL DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO. I AM SURE YOU WILL REDACT AND EDIT MY WORDS TO MAKE SURE ALL OF MY COMMUNICATIONS ARE MISREPRESENTED SO YOU CAN BE HAILED AS A BRILLIANT DEBATER..... BLESS YOUR HEART FOR YOU MUST HAVE BEEN INDOCTRINATED BY YOUR FATHER FROM THE AGE OF 10 TO BELIEVE ONE WAY AND NOT ALLOW ANY PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT VIEWS TO EVEN BE ACKNOWLEDGED. PEACE OUT FOR SURE =============================== [ME] XXX, please. Is the Washington Post EVIL CONSERVATIVE? Then look here... this ad begins with "I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message" http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/19/ad-watch-obama-camp-says-romney-not-one-of-us/ So XXX, please post the Romney ad that HE approved of that says Obama is "not one of us." Again, I said Romney gave charity IN EXCESS of his religious obligation. Is there a reading comprehension problem here? You do realize that using ALL CAPS doesn't hide the fact you again engage in pounding the table - fact free, intellect free. I actually can differ on policy with many people and we get along just fine. I work with a man, a gentleman who has been quite the Democrat Party mover/shaker for years. Was involved in Clinton's campaign and worked on the 08 Obama Campaign. Indeed, he & his wife were Clinton's guests at a Obama fundraiser in 08 and got to meet Obama. We had some very friendly conversations during the 08 campaign. You know why? Because OUR AMERICAN PRINCIPLES were firmly intact. He's the guy you hate now - a conservative/anti-left Liberal. And his whole family (including his Marine brother) voted for Romney this year out of principle. Oh, btw, he's black. So I guess, like Allen West, Mia Love, Condi Rice, Susanna Martinez, Marco Rubio, -- he's now a "race traitor". One last thing, I did NOT ask your "permission" to write about this exchange. Since I will remove all identifying information, I'm free to share with others. All I asked was if you wanted a link to it. **********The end at this time**************