“Botched”?
JHoward
Oh, and where has this been all these months? I mean, in the United States?
Update: “Fast and Furious back in headlines as Univision reportedly finds more victims“.
Spanish-language television network Univision plans to air a television special that it said reveals more violence than previously known, as well as the stories of how many more Operation Fast and Furious victims were killed, the network announced in a Friday release.
“The consequences of the controversial ‘Fast and Furious’ undercover operation put in place by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in 2009 have been deadlier than what has been made public to date,” the network said. “The exclusive, in-depth investigation by Univision News’ award-winning Investigative Unit — Univision Investiga — has found that the guns that crossed the border as part of Operation Fast and Furious caused dozens of deaths inside Mexico.”
Among other groups of Fast and Furious victim stories Univision says it will tell in the special to air Sunday evening at 7 p.m., is one about how “16 young people attending a party in a residential area of Ciudad Juárez in January of 2010? were gunned down with weapons the Obama administration gave to drug cartel criminals through Fast and Furious.
“Univision News’ Investigative Unit was also able to identify additional guns that escaped the control of ATF agents and were used in different types of crimes throughout Mexico,” the network added. “Furthermore, some of these guns — none of which were reported by congressional investigators — were put in the hands of drug traffickers in Honduras, Puerto Rico, and Colombia. A person familiar with the recent congressional hearings called Univision’s findings ‘the holy grail’ that Congress had been searching for.”
Doing the work the American Press refuses to. I mean it’s not like the Congress is involved or anything.
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Greetings:
I found the statement by the hatted Señor that Americans don’t care about what happens outside their borders interesting; like Los Mexicanos were losing siesta time over los drogas y los ilegales that have been pouring into Los Estados Unidos for the last how many years.
Whatever you linked to doesn’t appear to be here now, either.
Amazing that everyone in Holder’s office knew about it but the message never got to his desk.
Blue circle with a slash in the upper left hand pocket.
We need an Executive Summary, old chap.
RC, it’s a promo for a Univision investigative report on Fast and Furious, with an emphasis on the resulting carnage south of the border. It airs tonight at 7 Eastern.
The trailer is in English or has English subtitles where the speaker is speaking Spanish. Dunno what the broadcast will be.
It’s playing for me, btw.
Thanks, Pablo. I believe I have seen it elsewhere.
I would like to caution folks not to fall into a trap.
I think the reason for Fast and Furious, and what I believe will be a sustained narrative on the topic, is that the guns themselves, for whatever reason their ending up in Mexico happens to be, are responsible for all the deaths.
Whenever discussing this, remember that the problem isn’t that American guns caused the deaths, it was the violent cartels that were given the guns, and those doing the giving, that are responsible.
You don’t give a can of gasoline to an arsonist and then blame Chevron for the fire.
Poll of political insiders.
In the real world? Who knows?
The reason for Fast & Furious was to manufacture gun crime statistics in Mexico in order to justify tighter gun regulation in the U.S.. Sheryl Attkisson found memos that confirm this happened here: “ATF used F&F to make the case for gun control” http://tinyurl.com/6t3l9ko
I can’t find it, but I recall reading an article that said that all of the F&F guns went to a single cartel, which would give the impression that there was more to it than just getting guns from the US into Mexican criminals’ hands.
If it’s “botched” then I’ll need someone in the ATF, DHS, DOJ, or Obama Admin to explain how F&F should have worked had it not been “botched.”
“like Los Mexicanos were losing siesta time over los drogas y los ilegales that have been pouring into Los Estados Unidos for the last how many years.” Are you aware that they have been fighting a shooting drug war for 5 years? All while Americans kick back and roll another doobie of primo weed. I don’t know why I waste my time.
There were paid informants in the Sinaloa cartel who struck a deal to bring drugs in and take arms back to their cartel. Multiple agencies were involved but did not apparently speak to each other about all that they were doing.
Gulermo
AFAIK, ranchers on the border, hikers in national parks, and other “little people” have been screaming for years on what the drug cartels (which have also taken over human trafficking) have been doing, with impunity, on both sides of the border.
Politics & complicit media have buried the issues.
You’re absolutely right, Darleen.
I think that was kinda the point. While Americans fight with each other over the flood of illegals fleeing shithole Mexico, Mexico is blaming America while actively enabling the flood.
When does the discussion get around to Mexico taking responsibility for being a shithole people understandably wish to flee from?
If they guarded the border on their side, and created a free market economy in legal goods, I’m thinking our illegal alien problem and the drug cartel problem would go away.
They guard their border to the South very aggressively.
When does the discussion get around to Mexico taking responsibility for being a shithole people understandably wish to flee from?
We’ve been having that discussion with Mexico for at least 30 years, that I’m aware of. Cheap labor in Mexico made manufacturing in Mexico by Americans or Mexican-Amercans very attractive. Sportswear and sweets are two of the things that were made in Mexico and sold in America. Also Volkswagons.
I don’t remember all the details, but it seems that the trade deal went sideways or jobs were not as plentiful or required some kind of payola to a middleman leading to an exodus of Mexicans looking for jobs fleeing to El Norte.
I don’t blame them. I’d do the same thing if stuck in those circumstances.
“If they guarded the border on their side, and created a free market economy in legal goods, I’m thinking our illegal alien problem and the drug cartel problem would go away.” Your a dreamer. In the real world, all those $10 and $20 bills from El Norte get converted into corrupt police and politicians from Mexico on South. And the honest, officials who refuse to be bought, get wasted. You can point at them and say they are the problem, but the market for all the coke and weed is not in Mexico, mi amigo, and you know it, as well as I.
You’re
Sorry I am having some difficulties with a script error on this page.
Me too, I think it is the univision link. It is fucking me up big time.
“While Americans fight with each other over the flood of illegals fleeing shithole Mexico”
While some parts of Mexico are depressed, it is a beautiful place. Definately not a “shithole”. I personally know of several “shitholes” in the U.S. Been to Detroit lately?
Exactly, Gulermo. Some parts of Mexico are very beautiful and some are depressed.
Just like almost every other country.
Lee, try a visit sometime, just not to northern Mexico, at this moment.
Take care all.
Gulermo, re the script error.
I turned off my add-ons that allow me to watch videos and listen to podcasts and the error vanished.
Hope this helps.
I don’t think it’s quite that simple, but the first thing would be to clean up the corruption in their military and law enforcement, which they have done in some cases, but have plenty more to do.
So why are millions of Mexicans sneaking across the border but nearly no one from Detroit tries to sneak into Mexico?
And thanks, but I’m keeping my ass home for awhile. I just got back from Canada, from which hardly anyone sneaks into the US.
Are you sure Mexico’s problems are our fault?
Greetings: especially “Gulermo”
I am aware that our southern neighbors have been fighting a drug civil war for quite, perhaps too long a while. I grew up in the part of the Bronx where part of the folk wisdom was “You don’t want a thug in your neighborhood; You don’t want thugs to congregate in your neighborhood; and you especially don’t want thugs to organize in your neighborhood.” It was a kind of pre-emption of that whole “lead or silver”, mordida folkway.
If you lay down with dogs, guess what you get up with. How many years have they been singing songs about narcotrafficantes down there ???
Industry in Mexico is very crony-capitalist and IIRC a 51% share of every plant must be owned by Mexican nationals. Beaks of the ruling families get well wetted there.
Same script error nightmare here (IE8).
Had to ‘localhost’ out cdnapi.kaltura.com. (i.e. stick “127.0.0.1 cdnapi.kaltura.com” in my etc/hosts file.)
a 51% share of every plant must be owned by Mexican nationals. Beaks of the ruling families get well wetted there.
Thanks. I was trying to remember the details. At one time I worked with a number of Mexican-Americans who held dual citizenship. This allowed them to own homes in both countries and to own manufacturing firms in Mexico. Americans, and I believe others who aren’t Mexican citizens cannot own property in Mexico. They my obtain a 99 year lease, but ownership is impossible without citizenship.
Lee, the people who live in Detroit (who are not like our Carin) aren’t going to go anywhere.
Generalization ahead (Hi, Althouse!):
They live in squalor, collect government benefits and are in general dangerous rascals who enjoy slinging dope, drinking, killing and procreating. They aren’t interested in working for a living, either. Jail time is minimal for most of them and is probably not much of a hardship, either. Meals, television, weight-training and fighting: it’s just like home without the opposite sex for distraction. They learn nothing from being incarcerated and lead short and violent lives.
Go to Mexico and try to pull any of that shit and your ass goes to a lawless jail where you sit around and rot away the rest of your miserable life.
“Are you sure Mexico’s problems are our fault?” I never said they were all our fault. The illicit drug industry is a hundreds of billions of dollars a year economy. The problem Mexico has with illicit drugs is foisted on them by a market that ORIGINATES in the U.S. You can slice that anyway you like and change nothing.
“I grew up in the part of the Bronx ” With all due respect; are you really comparing the Bronx with Mexico? “How many years have they been singing songs about narcotrafficantes down there ???” You have heard of the Golden Rule? He who has the gold; rules?
“If you lay down with dogs, guess what you get up with. ” No whinging when it goes to shit there; ok?
Where, exactly, do you think that $200.00 you spent on weed last year went. Any idea what they did with it? Not interested? It’s only a “shithole” after all.
Guillermo seems to me you are describing Mexicans as ambitious self starters who are willing to take risks in order to reap rewards. Which is not to say that some give much credence to the laws of man. The laws of demand supersede and often undermine the former.
Univision will be posting the entire program online with English subtitles.
Where, exactly, do you think that $200.00 you spent on weed last year went.
from straw man to weed man
Mostly to Ortho. Or did I misunderstand the question?
“I would like to caution folks not to fall into a trap.”
Lee,
Of course that’s a two-way trap. Not very likely that tighter gun control measures will be enacted when the gov’t has been caught giving them away willy-nilly.
Eventually the courts will force the removal of the executive priviledge; unfortunately, the information won’t be as valuable after the election.
Well, if that was directed at me, I spent exactly zero on weed or any other illegal drug last year. Plus, I live in California and if I wanted to buy weed I could go to the dispensary in town and buy it over the counter.
I think some Laotian dude on Jackson and 5th grows it all legal and stuff…
Danger, you’re an incurable optimist. NTTAWWT.
” you’re an incurable optimist.”
Yeah,
But it beats developing an ulcer waiting for November. And maybe… just maybe; the fact that a Spanish speaking station is giving this story it’s due, is reason to not write of the Hispanics.
Lee: My Dad always told me; “When I want you, I’ll call your name.”
That was a generic we. The man in the hat that was referenced above was pointing to the fact that no one on the North side of the border seems to be interested in the death and destruction that is being visited upon them.
I believe we were disussing some of the root causes to the situation in Mexico. When the police here bust a semi with 8 tons of coke, I don’t think it is for consumption in Mexico City. Feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong.
” seems to me you are describing Mexicans as ambitious self starters ” My experience has been that some are and some are not. And that is generally true of the U.S. , if I recall correctly. What the U.S. has that they do not is the opportunity to be self starters.
Part of the problem wrt immigration is that many of the illegals that are going North now aren’t worth a warm bucket of spit. There are at least 50% of the people here that don’t believe in queing up for anything and the U.S. visa process is long, (sometimes as long as five years, with two to three being the norm), and expensive, ($10,000 and up). Most of the people that you would want are stuck in line waiting to be processed.
It is difficult to describe to you what it is like here. Many people here see the LAW as something to avoid, not follow, for various reasons that probably wouldn’t make sense to you. That is why I said Lee should come for a visit. You have to see it for yourself to believe it and even then sometimes you don’t believe it.