June 20, 2010

Good thing Barton apologized for his apology remarks

Otherwise the Dems might have been able to shape those remarks into a cudgel.

Here’s an idea, Team R: if you want to turn the 2010 election into “a referendum on President Obama, the Pelosi-led Congress and their culture of incompetence that has resulted in the mismanagement of the federal bureaucracy, the economy, and the ballooning deficit,” it helps if you don’t run away from statements by one of your own that highlight the lawlessness and hubris of the man in charge of steering the Democrat clown car.

Had the GOP stood by Barton and allowed him to clarify his remarks — which were truthful and pointed — we could today be having a useful discussion about how the President sees fit to shake down industry (even when the company in question was one of his biggest campaign supporters) while he simultaneously uses things like the Jones Act to protect his union buddies at the expense of environmental expedience. Such a discussion might even highlight important differences between a free market system and one being used to protect labor and hamstring growth and economic recovery.

Instead, the GOP has once again allowed the Democrats to frame the narrative — to tell us what Barton really truly meant. And his apology for his initial remarks — coerced by fellow Republicans under threat of losing his position — only serves to make Barton look guilty, and the GOP to look like it’s desperate to cover up the shame of what it is, according to the Dems, “some folks in the Republican Party truly believe.”

Well played, pragmatists! This care you are taking to constrain and unify the narrative and protect it from disingenuous attacks by those bent on spinning it to their advantage is, like, totally paying dividends!

And it sure beats telling the truth — which, let’s face it, the American people wouldn’t understand, anyway. The silly proles.

(h/t TerryH)

Posted by Jeff G. @ 9:45am
435 comments | Trackback

Comments (435)

  1. It’s true. We really cannot be bothered to pay attention to this long enough to figure it out. Since the GOP agreed that Barton was wrong, it seems obvious that he was.

    We really cannot tell the difference between the two parties anyway.

  2. I need to start proofreading.

  3. Jeff,

    Barton was absolutely right on substance…and absolutely wrong to phrase it as an apology to BP. It’s unfortunate, but true.

    But the important thing is stopping the leak, just as our dads and kids are the important thing today. Have a Happy Fathers’ Day, pal!

  4. It stands to reason that when the world turns upside down saying the truth becomes a shameful act.

  5. Happy Father’s Day, boss!

    Barton was dead-on right, but his on-air apology to BP was tacticly inept and further compounded by the GOP dogpiling that forced him into another apology.

    STOP.APOLOGIZING.

    Barton needed to review Paul Ryan’s tapes before stepping to the microphone.

  6. Barton was absolutely right on substance…and absolutely wrong to phrase it as an apology to BP.

    Why? If you know what he meant substantially, why does the way he phrased it change that important fact?

    If phrased indelicately, qualify, expand, expound, refine. Instead, he apologized — and was forced to by the GOP. Which makes comment 1 in this thread directly on point.

  7. The apology is owed by Obama to the American people for short-circuiting the Constitution, not by Barton to BP.

  8. That’s the point Barton was making, Noel.

    But then, I guess most Americans can’t be counted on to figure that out, given the UNHELPFUL! way he phrased it.

    And of course, he never could have answered his critics by saying just that as a follow-up — namely, that he was apologizing on behalf of the American people for the President’s lawlessness.

    Nope. Must. Be. Careful. Not. To. Allow. Ourselves. To. Be. Spun.

    Best. Bet. Is. To. Say. Nothing.

  9. Barton’s text said what it said. Fuck what he meant by it. He needs to apologize for his text’s crazy unhelpful recalcitrance and offensiveness!

  10. Jeff, Barton was an idiot for how he said it. Yes the GOP handled it poorly too, but when you have a President falling down a flight of stairs, last thing you want to do is get in the way.

    BP was going to do the fund anyway. BP fucked up in making it look like Obama thought the idea up. So BP gets no credit, Barton is just pandering to his supporters in Houston, the GOP looks stupid, and Obama takes credit for BP’s fund. Great.

    If you are going to lose it, at least lose it with style.

  11. Jeff: Barton apologized to BP and Hayward. That is what he said. Fuck that. Barton should have said Obama is a thief, but don’t apologize to some fucking idiot like Hayward.

  12. Barton may not have used the most tactful of phrasing, but the GOP should have backed Barton.

    Of course, this is the same GOP that backed Specter all the way to switching parties.

    Which leads one to conclude the GOP is only interested in power, not doing what’s right.

  13. And if Barton had any balls, he would have told Boehner to go fuck himself too, and then explained what an asshole Obama is and why what the administration is doing is wrong.

    But hey, BP agreed voluntarily to set up that fund. So what does that say about it? Obama has power, but not that much power. Exxon Mobile would have made those gulf residents go through 20 years of litigation.

  14. Whatever, Joe.

    Barton was an idiot for telling the truth in a way that the Dems could use it. Lord knows they couldn’t have found a way to use “Obama is a thief” had it come from Barton.

    No. Best just to Not. Say. Anything. Ever.

    You all play your word games and allow this kind of shit to continue. I’m done teaching. School’s out. Pat and Ace and Allah will guide you from here. ONWARD TO VICTORY!

  15. Barton’s only mistake was assuming responsibility for the actions of the Obama adminstration. His apology did just that.

    Better to have explained to BP that they are likely facing serious liability for their actions, that we here in America entrust such matters to the court system, and perhaps he could have added an apology, on behalf of Congress, for their inability/unwillingness hold Obama to task for overstepping his authority in assuming control over the fund.

  16. Maybe, Thomas.

    Me, I believe Barton’s first mistake was speaking. His second mistake was being bullied into apologizing.

    His third mistake is being a Republican in a time of Roaming. And pussified egrets.

  17. “Best. Bet. Is. To. Say. Nothing.”–Better to say it right the first time.

    Democrats are using this to fund-raise amongst themselves, but although most Americans aren’t in the mood for “an apology to BP”, the real issue for them is the leak. Plug the Hole, Daddy.

    On the secondary issue of the Fund, Congress set up a 911 Fund, in part so the airline industry would not go out of business. Bush did not demand a $20b slush fund from the airlines under a hand-picked administrator. We still have to make this case. If we do Barton–and the rule of law–will be vindicated in time. But the main thing is still the leak.

  18. “Better to have explained to BP that they are likely facing serious liability for their actions, that we here in America entrust such matters to the court system…”

    He did explain that. Listen. Take the slider to 1:41 where Barton’s statement of apology begins.

  19. “Best. Bet. Is. To. Say. Nothing.”–Better to say it right the first time.

    Of course it’s always better to say it perfectly the first time.

    And if you can’t say it perfectly in retrospect, it’s best that you didn’t say it at all.

    Which, since you can’t have retrospect until you say it to begin with, means you’re best off just keeping silent. Wouldn’t want to risk making an error, after all — because lord knows, you aren’t allowed ever to clarify.

    Why that’s the case I’ll leave to you and Joe and Pat, etc., to puzzle out.

  20. My New Year’s Resolution is being tested, mightily.

  21. Anyone got a transcript of Barton’s full remarks?

  22. Take the slider to 1:41 where Barton’s statement of apology begins.

    Listen to the source material, sdferr?

    Surely you jest.

    If we did that, we wouldn’t have all the extra stories about apologizing for apologies, and how someone somewhere might take the statement out of context and therefore take it to mean what it didn’t, etc.

    And of course, no talking egrets, or handwringing, sanctimonious and “solicitous” pragmatists. And that just won’t do.

  23. but the GOP should have backed Barton

    AMEN!

  24. It’s liberating that nobody links here anymore — and so my only new readers are, like, accidental.

    I can pretty much say what I please.

    outlaw, etc.

  25. I disagree:

    Governor Christie is putting the lie to the old meme about Americans being unable to handle the truth.

    The American people who pay the bills know the truth already and are getting impatient waiting for sanity based action from the suits of mush we sadly must refer to as our “leaders”.

    When Barton accidentally spoke the truth I prayed he wouldn’t recant, but recant he did so he is not the one we are waiting for.

    When Wilson yelled “liar!” I prayed he wouldn’t recant, but he did and so he is not the one either.

    Christie does not recant.

  26. I answers myself. Here is part of it, posted at “theatlanticwire”, but notice the ellipsis contained therein. What was missing? Barton’s description of the law-breaking in the hypothetical he offered had he done something comparable to what Obama had done:

    I’m speaking now totally for myself. I’m not speaking for the Republican Party, I’m not speaking for anybody in the House of Representatives but myself. But I’m ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday. I think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation could be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown–in this case, a $20 billion shakedown–with the attorney general of the United States, who is legitimately conducting a criminal investigation, and has every right to do so to protect the interests of the American people, participating in what amounts to a $20 billion slush fund that’s unprecedented in our nation’s history, that’s got no legal standing, and which sets, I think, a terrible precedent for the future There is no question that BP is liable for the damages. But we have a due process system where we go through hearings, in some cases court cases, litigation, and determine what those damages are and when those damages should be paid. So I’m only speaking for myself, I’m not speaking for anybody else, but I apologize. I do not want to live in a country where any time a citizen or a corporation does something that is legitimately wrong, he’s subjected to some sort of political pressure that is again, in my words, amounts to a shakedown. So I apologize.

  27. Black holes. It doesn’t matter what you said, let alone what you meant.

    It’s gonna mean what they say it means.

    Barton shouldda had the balls to tell ‘em to piss up a rope.

  28. I agree with that, Carin.

    And then told the fucking Republicans that if they stripped him, he’d run as a fucking independent next time.

  29. He did explain that.

    Yeah, I know. My point was to keep to the same vein while making some minor improvements.

    Jeff’s correct that he should not have been criticized for being wrong, nor should he have apologized. He could have said things better, and should have used the opportunity of the uproar to clarify his meaning (and hit back twice as hard.)

  30. Pingback: Primary Treasure | Diary Deni

  31. White House press secretary Bill Burton told reporters aboard Air Force One today that Burton’s response was “an example of what some folks in the Republican Party truly believe…[that] BP was the wronged party.”

    Fuck you Burton. Sideways. Swordfish.

  32. Here’s the rest, culled from a message board:

    […] If I called you into my office, and I had the subcommittee chairman, Mr. Stupak, with me, who was legitimately conducting an oversight investigation on your company and said, if you put so many millions of dollars in a project in my congressional district, I could go to jail, and should go to jail.

    Now, there is no question that British Petroleum owns this lease. There is no question that British Petroleum — that B.P. — I’m sorry. It’s not British Petroleum anymore — that B.P. made decisions that objective people think compromise safety. There is no question that B.P. is liable for the damages.
    But we have a due process system, where we go through hearings, in some cases court cases, litigation, and determine what those damages are and when those damages should be paid.

  33. I am the staunchest.

    Sadly, that’s not considered a plus among our modern opinion leaders (nor our actual leaders, who are only putatively “conservative”).

  34. And, regardless, Juan Williams (who usually is one of the “good” one) made the Barton bit the story of the week. Yea.Right. Not that Captain Kick Ass won’t bend the Jones act and let foreign nations show us up with their containment technology. NOT that Obama appointed his own pay czar to distribute those BP funds. Or not that Congressman Etheride is a huge fucking bully.

    No. Barton’s comment.

  35. Barton spoke the truth, but he should have left “I apologize” on the editing floor. In an otherwise strong statement, it took the focus off listing the facts White House strong arm tactics and letting those bald facts stand for themselves and editorialized as sympathy for BP.

    The GOP leadership was WRONG WRONG WRONG in not getting behind the truth of the statement and supporting Barton.

  36. Barton was absolutely right on substance…and absolutely wrong to phrase it as an apology to BP.

    So, rather than apologize for what he meant, why didn’t he clarify what he said?

    Instead, the GOP just admitted guilt and ran away.

  37. “Christie does not recant.”

    Mark Hemingway wrote to the effect: * Truce? Surely that’s a rhetorical overstep, isn’t it? Gaffe much? *

    Daniels returned, in effect: * No, it wasn’t a rhetorical overstep. I intended just what I said. Now bite me. *

    So that’s two. There are at present a small handful of others.

  38. In an otherwise strong statement, it took the focus off

    No, not “it.” People doing the interpreting took the focus off. And they did so by seizing on a particular aspect of the statement that they knew they could use. Disingenuously.

    And Barton then apologized for saying it, suggesting that he agreed with their interpretation.

    No need to go further into the mechanics. I’ve said it all before. But there’s how it plays out. Always.

    — Because we continue to accept the structural preconditions as legit. Serves us right.

  39. Washington is not famous for rallying to the side of the wounded, Jeff. That’s why Truman said “get a dog.”

    It reminds me of Goldwater’s “extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.” He was right, of course. But after JFK was shot, some voters just didn’t want to hear the word “extremism”–even if Oswald was an extreme lefty, not a conservative.

    It’s not right, it’s not fair, and yes, it would be great if Republicans rose as one to explain–but that’s not human nature. Sometimes we have to pick our battles, and frame them for victory.

  40. Leastwise we’ve learned that when the world goes all upside down Joe is a sure and steady guide to keeping it that way. Guide on, Joe.

  41. It’s not right, it’s not fair, and yes, it would be great if Republicans rose as one to explain–but that’s not human nature.

    Oh. So this corrupted idea of language — one that enables and ensures a kind of epistemic relativism — is itself fixed and determined, part of the very genetic make up of man?

    AWESOME!

  42. Let me put it this way, Noel. All it would take to change “human nature,” in this scenario, would have been a GOP leadership with balls, and Barton to remember his own.

    Cowardice may be common; but that doesn’t make it “human nature” — just one potential aspect of human nature.

  43. You say true. Nothing prevents Barton’s recollecting that he has balls today. He can apologize for the apology for the apology, if he chooses. The media can have their flip-out fantasy fest, but Barton can go to his grave knowing he’s right.

  44. And he apologized for saying it, suggesting that he then agreed with their interpretation

    And Barton was wrong for doing that, too.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong on this, but when person A uses the phrase “I apologize” they are signaling that the person they are apologizing to has been wronged in some way.

    At that particular time, in a hearing ostensibly to discover the extent of BP’s culpability in the Gulf oil spill that killed 11 oil workers, signaling that BP was being treated unfairly was (IMHO) inept and signaled Barton’s true intent that BPs wrongs did not excuse White House wrongs poorly.

    I wish that Barton did NOT apologize later, but stood up for his original remarks with clarification.

  45. Let’s also take this one step further. Barton was wrong in one other sense. It wasn’t simply a shakedown. BP has paid protection and, just like the restaurant owner from Good Fellas, they are now owned by the boss. They cut a deal at the expense of the American people, Obama gets his slush fund, and BP gets an assurance they won’t be chopped up and fed to the fish(ermens) so long as they keep Obama flush with walking around money.

  46. You all play your word games and allow this kind of shit to continue. I’m done teaching. School’s out. Pat and Ace and Allah will guide you from here. ONWARD TO VICTORY!

    Obama could end the Jones Act for this spill with an executive order, or if that was not enough, an emergency vote in Congress. So did Barton say that? No. He apologized to Tony Hayward and BP for being embarassed.

    Barton is backed by the oil industry in Houston. Maybe he actually meant it. All I know is apologizing to BP and Hayward was a very exceedingly stupid idea (not as bad as grouping some college kid on the street with a flip camera, but still very stupid). Maybe Barton misspoke. I get the argument about political shake downs (although remember BP was going to do this anyway and agreed to do it voluntarily). I agree that the political circus of those Congressional hearings was just a lot of posturing and nonsense. But I know if you or I misspoke, we would correct ourselves, explained what we meant, and fought for our position. No threats from a Boehner would have stopped us.

    I am not defending Ace and Allah. I do not disagree with you about fighting back. Obviously the GOP and Barton’s retreat is insanely counter productive. But if they are that cowardly and stupid to even defend themselves, all I can do is vote for better candidates going forward.

    And please never put me with that lying fuck Patrick Frey. This is not some “good man” argument or Frey criticizing Rush over wanting Obama to fail. This is about incompetence on the part of the GOP politically in dealing with Obama incompetence with this oil spill.

  47. “…the phrase “I apologize” they are signaling that the person they are apologizing to has been wronged in some way.”

    It is so, more or less today, I think. But the word began as “a defense” of the sort one makes in a court of law, an “after saying” and as such, can amount to a showing that no wrong has been committed.

  48. Why is it stupid to apologize for the abrogation of the rule of law Joe, even to a presumed wrongdoer, that is, to one who stands in actual need of the rule of law, as opposed to in need or expectation of a lynch mob to relieve him of the burden of living?

  49. sdferr

    But the word began as “a defense” of the sort one makes in a court of law

    Oh, I understand how the phrase has been manipulated. I’m speaking of it’s more colloquial usage. “I’m sorry I stepped on your foot.” “I’m sorry I knocked over and broke your lamp.” “I’m sorry I got drunk and puked on your dog.”

    Clearer signaling of Barton’s intent might have been something along the lines of “Even someone arrested for a felony doesn’t have their Constitutional rights taken from them.”

  50. Again, this was not the time or place for a ‘personal’ apology. Those get made in person, in a personal setting, not while speaking as a Representative from the dais of a Congressional committee. That time and place is inherently political, so your speech should be political. That means making a point, and the point to be made was that Obama was way out of line assuming control over any ‘fund’ (regardless of whether BP was coughing it willingly or not) and that Congress was failing in it’s own duty by not calling him on it.

  51. Why is it stupid to apologize for the abrogation of the rule of law

    IMHO, it would have been a clearer signaling of intent to make that abrogation a point of outrage rather than apology.

  52. It doesn’t matter what you said, let alone what you meant.

    It’s gonna mean what they say it means.

    This.  You can’t say it perfectly in this environment, so why bother?

    But I have found it is really hard to misinterpret “fuck you”.

  53. Rule of law? BP thought up the whole tort fund idea along with some Republican legislators. There is nothing against the “rule of law” to set up a fund in advance of what they know will be massive tort liability. It is called public relations and getting in front of it. Does anyone doubt BP is going to face a lot of litigation? BP said it was going to pay all legitimate claims. Given the size of this disaster, made far worse by Obama, is 20 billion really that out of line with that statement?

    It was not even Obama’s idea to set up this fund. And if Obama engaged in thuggish behavior to coerce BP, BP was free to go public and say so. BP agreed to the deal. Are they owned by Obama, yeah. But BP chose to do that.

    But because BP fumbling, the fund is now something Obama mangaged to get from it (and Obama takes credit for it). And then Barton made it far worse by apologizing to BP for being poorly treated (which not surprisingly caused Boeher to say WTF), and then instead of explaining what he said, Barton backed off that apology with no explanation.

    So all in all, a total fuck up by the GOP and BP. And Obama starts digging himself out of the hole. Great.

  54. Hey! Let’s get the rope!

  55. At that particular time, in a hearing ostensibly to discover the extent of BP’s culpability in the Gulf oil spill that killed 11 oil workers, signaling that BP was being treated unfairly was (IMHO) inept and signaled Barton’s true intent that BPs wrongs did not excuse White House wrongs poorly.

    He said that BP was wrong for what they were wrong for.

    But just because BP is wrong, doesn’t mean that they can’t be treated unfairly as a result. They are a convenient target because of the spill. But that doesn’t mean they can’t be wronged, as well — or that their mistake gives Obama free reign to do as he pleases.

    Frankly, I no longer care. The real issue here is why we even have to have these kinds of conversations.

  56. BP may have caused this spill, but Obama made it far worse.

  57. BP thought up the whole tort fund idea along with some Republican legislators.

    Names? Got a link?

    So, BP goes looking to buy off the politicians with a bag full of cash and that’s supposed to be a good thing?

  58. And BP chooses to cook up this deal with members of the party currently out of power?

  59. IMHO, it would have been a clearer signaling of intent to make that abrogation a point of outrage rather than apology.

    It was a rhetorical conceit, done for emphasis. His apologizing was meant to show that Obama was overstepping. Pretty obvious to me, at least.

  60. Barton kept prefacing his remarks by saying he was speaking just for himself. That is, he sensed his remarks would be controversial and would put his colleagues on the spot. On reflection, I think he was correct to apologize for that, though not the substance, which is really a balance of power/role of the executive-issue. We shouldn’t have strongmen strong-arming for cash those they also regulate and prosecute.

    But even I don’t like Barton’s formulation, especially since BP cut corners to save money. For example, when Holder announced he was going to give Bush…I mean, KSM, a fair trial in New York City and then hang him, we didn’t apologize to KSM for Holder’s mis-demeanor.

  61. The real issue here is why we even have to have these kinds of conversations

    Egrets.

  62. “…Holder announced he was going to give Bush…I mean, KSM, a fair trial in New York City and then hang him, we didn’t apologize to KSM for Holder’s mis-demeanor.”

    Actually, an apology of sorts was precisely what some people undertook, though they didn’t stress making it directly to KSM, but emphasized the way in which Holder misunderstands our system by his ghastly statement.

  63. It’s a pity that for the Democrats to (deservedly) lose, the Republican ‘leadership’ has to win.

  64. Let me say this directly: if the GOP is / was responsible for this kind of thing, I’d be taking them to task.

    The lot of these politicians sicken me. At least the progressives — for all their miserable mistakes — have convictions, however.

  65. Rep. Joe Barton speaks for me; I said that Thursday, and I stand by it today. The GOP has become a soft and a weak party, and will continue to be soft and weak and easily defeatable for as long as their leadership embraces McCain and his sorts of blue-blood elitist. The Tea Party movement was as much a backlash against the GOP as it is pushback against dirty socialists.

    The Tea Party is teh OUTLAW!

  66. Pat and Ace and Allah will guide you from here.

    Anyone else noticed how, the more successful the alternative right becomes, the more squeamish Ace seems to be getting? He’s damn near full on AP lately.

  67. Setting up a tort fund is not that unusual–which is why BP did it. It was supposed to show BP was getting in front of this problem and being responsible. It is not against the rule of law–if it is voluntary. But hey, better for those out of work fishermen, shrimpers, and bed and breakfast owners to spend twenty years litigating with BP. For the rule of law.

    What happened here is BP fucked up on how they handled Obama, Obama with is a deciteful fuck took advantage of it, and the GOP missed an opportunity to point that out (and instead commited an unforced error). Poorly played.

  68. So who were these republican legislators who helped BP with the deal?

  69. But even I don’t like Barton’s formulation, especially since BP cut corners to save money. For example, when Holder announced he was going to give Bush…I mean, KSM, a fair trial in New York City and then hang him, we didn’t apologize to KSM for Holder’s mis-demeanor.

    Sir! You’ve just likened a perfectly fine Democratic-contributing multinational corporation (what has a spiffy Green logo, probably funds windmill research, and supports an untold number of women and children via employee salaries) to a self-admited Terrorist Mastermind, who orchestrated an attack that killed thousands of US citizens!

    I demand that you apologize for your insensitive remarks. And further, I demand that all right-thinking moderate Republicans everywhere distance themselves from such talk. Even though we know what they really think.

  70. Time constraints forbid me reading Ace or Allah anymore. HotAir isn’t even in my g00gle reader; WashingtonRebel dot com took it’s place.

  71. Anyone else noticed how, the more successful the alternative right becomes, the more squeamish Ace seems to be getting? He’s damn near full on AP lately.

    He’s right to be. First, I don’t doubt his sincerity. Second, his message sells — as has Allah’s — and so it reinforces itself.

    My only problem is that alternatives get frozen out — or else are tasked to those who are uniquely hamfisted in trying to sell them, and so are easily cartooned as extremists.

    And that, I think, is in some ways intentional — though not really malicious. Just a form of selection bias.

  72. Joe – you stated that BP cooked this up with R congresscritters. You seem to have a link for everything but that assertion.

  73. The rope goddamn it, where’s the rope! Come on people, time’s a wasting.

  74. John Bradley–even worse; I compared Joe Barton to Eric Holder!

  75. So far it appears the ‘it was BP’s idea’ and ‘republicans were involved’ memes are -at best- unsubstantiated.

  76. Joe “But hey, better for those out of work fishermen, shrimpers, and bed and breakfast owners to spend twenty years litigating with BP. For the rule of law.”

    I’m glad if those people get paid sooner and more. But we don’t know if this will be a GM bankruptcy type-deal, that rewards friends and punishes enemies, such as counties that voted for Obama or Republican governors.

  77. Anyone want to get the democrats back focused on upholding the rule of law?

    Let’s start having opne discussions on the right about how we are going to apply the Obama principles to the pending financial failures among the unions, academia, the media, following the upcoming elections.

  78. Okay: Here’s the link about it being BP idea before the meeting with Obama.

    And yes Republicans lawmakers in the gulf region did suggest an escrow fund to BP. To help their constituents, not as a shakedown. The real story is BP was going to do it, and Obama made it appear to be a shakedown so he could take credit for it.

  79. You still have not given any evidence that this was suggested by republicans, or any other lawmakers.

  80. And it sure beats telling the truth — which, let’s face it, the American people wouldn’t understand, anyway. The silly proles.

    Exactly. And the pragmatists wonder why they constantly piss off their readers with these constant implicit insults.

    Wait… I just broke the first rule of Republican club. “Shut up,” he reminded himself.

  81. ThomasD, who the fuck cares. BP thought it up–okay. I know BP has been discussing billions in claims from all over the gulf. You don’t think Jindal and other Republicans have not brought up claims by their constituents to BP? Or that republican law makers in the region have not discussed BP covering the cost to the states in taking mitigation efforts? The point is this should have been a postive thing for BP and instead it looks like it was dragged kicking and screaming by Obama. BP is mismanging the PR and damage control.

    Meanwhile Obama has not brought in those foriegn skimmers. Can’t be upsetting the unions by creating precident by overturning the protectionist Jones Act (even if it is temporarily for an emergency).

    And you were just saying above there is no evidence BP was going to do this on its own. Are you backing off that, or do you want to keep crying how mean Obama has been to BP. Get your eye on the ball.

  82. 1784: The Mississippi River froze as far south as New Orleans.

    Cool, cooler, coolest: freeze the gulf, where’s yer spill emergency now? Ice skating to Minneapolis, that’s where. Then Joe can go off on the volcano! Rope goddamnit. More rope.

  83. Simmer down Joe. There is no crying on this end.

    You felt it important enough to make the assertions. I want to know if they are true. I’m glad you were able to substantiate that BP wanted to set up a fund and am not surprised to learn that Obama was simply usurping someone else’s efforts.

    But you were the one who felt it necessary to make the point that republicans were central to the setting up of the fund, so maybe you can explain why it was so important? And don’t get all pissy over my questioning it just because you can’t back up what you said.

    Again, right now it is just unsubstantiated, if you find a link later I’ll be glad to hear about it.

  84. At least foreign investors now understand that no law will protect their property rights if the thugtastic cocksucker president of failmerica has an eye on their bling bling.

  85. Never apologize. It’s a sign of weakness.

  86. [O]ur dads and kids are the important thing today. Have a Happy Fathers’ Day, pal!

    In the Schreiber Haushalt Father’s Day shall be observed with a showing of that heartwarming celebration of family and traditional American values Big Jake.

  87. what’s interesting is how concerned dirty socialist America is at being caught out ganking BP like the second-rate Chavez muppets they are…

    here’s one way you can tell…

    this quote I posted yesterday from an article by the dirty socialist propagandists at Reuters…

    Under pressure from the White House, BP has set up a $20 billion damages fund but that figure could be increased if it proves insufficient, said Kenneth Feinberg, the fund’s federal administrator.*

    that’s all gone daddy gone now, replace by this message:

    Appearing on NBC’s “Meet the Press” program, Feinberg also rejected the complaint of a senior Republican congressman, Joe Barton, who said last week that the fund set up by BP under pressure from President Barack Obama amounted to a government “shakedown” of the company.

    “I don’t think it helps to politicize this program,” Feinberg said.

    Feinberg, an arbitration lawyer, dispensed hundreds of millions of dollars to victims of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, and was named last week to administer the BP compensation fund.

    “This a voluntary program. No one is compelled to come into this fund,” Feinberg said.

    But, Feinberg added, “I would urge everyone to come into this fund,” explaining the program would seek to provide relief within weeks while going to court could take years.

    What a fucking liar. This Feinberg cocksucker better hope it’s never him what’s taken behind closed doors in the lawless cocksucker White House of our shamed and shameful thugly little country.

  88. Other Republicans support the fund.

    Sen. George LeMieux, R-Fla, commended the creation of the fund on the Senate floor Wednesday.

    “We’ve been asking for this since the beginning of May,” said LeMieux. “I’m glad the president got it done. and while I don’t always agree with the president, where credit is due, credit should be given and he should be given credit for doing this… getting it done.”

    This Republican could use some criticism too. Encouraging BP to get in front of claims is one thing (the fund is not a bad idea), giving credit to Obama for making it happen something elese entirely.

  89. That LeMieux is a Crist protogege should not come as much surprise given the hamfistedness of his statement above.

  90. Boehnerfag Team R isn’t really expected to stand up to the sodomization property rights I don’t think, Joe.

  91. *of* property rights I mean

  92. If you speak the truth there is never a need to apologize. You may need to console those who are unused to hearing anything other that multi-culti-brave-new-world pablum, but you will never need to apologize.

    I reiterate: The pols that pull their heads out of the giant DC anal canal and catch on to which way the wind is blowing will realize that the more vitriol they loose against Barry’s imaginary legions the more efforless their path to office will be.

    The people are wise tp the empty suit, now they’re looking for some pols that are wise too.

  93. I’m working on getting banned at someplace called “Seeking Alpha” btw *

  94. sdferr, WTF? Volcanos?

    There are thousands in the gulf losing money and jobs from the drilling ban. There are thousands losing money from the oil and loss of tourism, fishing, shrimping, etc. It is a two prong economic disaster.

    Local republicans need to fight both the drilling ban and get money to their constituents damaged by the oil. This is politics 101. If your shrimp boat was shut down in Louisiana, conservative or not, you would be calling Bobby Jindal’s, Vetter’s, etc. offices asking for help in getting your claims processed from BP so you could pay your mortgage (since you just lost your entire season due to the timing of this thing). By the time a lawsuit is resolved, you are broke and out of business.

    The fund may or may not work. But I understand what is driving it.

  95. “sdferr, WTF? Volcanos?”

    Priceless Joe, the WTF says it all.

  96. Comment by Joe on 6/20 @ 12:54 pm #

    That LeMieux is a Crist protogege should not come as much surprise given the hamfistedness of his statement above.

    Comment by happyfeet on 6/20 @ 12:55 pm #

    Boehnerfag Team R isn’t really expected to stand up to the sodomization property rights I don’t think, Joe.

    happy, hamfistedness. I knew there was an Obama-Crist connection there somewhere.

  97. It’s a sign of (your) weakness.

  98. remember how overwrought pansy homopublican pussyboy Jeff Miller took a break from giving McCain fave Charlie Crist a sloppy Jergen’s handjob to call for Barton’s dismissal from his committee chair?

    it became The Big Question apparently and all I can say is God bless Glenn Reynolds.

    The story of BP vs. the White House is a story of crooks being shaken down by thugs, with a liberal dose of incompetence on both sides. Barton was only pointing out the shakedown aspect, but he was certainly dead-on with regard to that.

  99. Well ThomasD, JD, there are your Republican congresscritter links above. Crist protogege and fisting cock sucker Sen. George LeMieux praises Obama and admits he has been requesting BP do the fund since May. He just could not resist praising Obama could he?

    Trent Franks, A-2 (RP, far more wisely, notes the escrow fund was BP’s idea and that Obama stole credit for it.

  100. *Jergens* handjob I mean

    I wonder if Charlie gets any endorsement money from them.

  101. Those links do not support your original contention, Joe.

  102. After just a few primary races, choices for GOP in 2008 came down to McCain, Mitt Romney, and Huckabee. The Dems to Hillary and Obama. Fuck, you used to get more choice than that in East Germany.

    Who is running for 2012?

  103. looks like Gingrich fancies himself both relevant and presidential, Joe

    As for the obligatory “will you run” in 2012 question, Gingrich says that it is “certainly an option.” He plans to spend all this year electing Republicans to office, and then will sit down with his trophy ho Callista and make a decision in February or March.

  104. JD, my original contention is some republicans suggested it (LeMeiux) and that BP was going to do it on its own (Trent Frank confirmed that). Yeah, those links do support what I said above:

    Comment by Joe on 6/20 @ 10:15 am #

    Jeff, Barton was an idiot for how he said it. Yes the GOP handled it poorly too, but when you have a President falling down a flight of stairs, last thing you want to do is get in the way.

    BP was going to do the fund anyway. BP fucked up in making it look like Obama thought the idea up. So BP gets no credit, Barton is just pandering to his supporters in Houston, the GOP looks stupid, and Obama takes credit for BP’s fund. Great.

    If you are going to lose it, at least lose it with style.

    Comment by Joe on 6/20 @ 10:23 am #

    And if Barton had any balls, he would have told Boehner to go fuck himself too, and then explained what an asshole Obama is and why what the administration is doing is wrong.

    But hey, BP agreed voluntarily to set up that fund. So what does that say about it? Obama has power, but not that much power. Exxon Mobile would have made those gulf residents go through 20 years of litigation.

    I am surprised you are even arguing with these points. My point is Barton needed to fight if he was defending a position. That Barton did it very poorly to start (apologizing to BP was stupid) and then backed down when threatened makes me think he is not the guy to carry the conservative banner on this. If sdferr wants to make Barton a hero, that is fine for him. I disagree. If anything, get someone in there who can make a argument who is not going to back down once he makes it (and has the skills to make it clear enough to understand).

    Maybe Wally Bachman is available.

  105. Yeah Gingrich. New York 23. Scozzafava is a good republican. Yeah, I feel better already. I think I am going to throw up.

    Where the fuck is the whiskey? It is father’s day and daddy needs to get drunk.

  106. Romney, Huckabee and Gingrich in 2012. Weeee.

  107. don’t forget Pawlenty he’s a charmer

  108. Minnesota nice!

  109. Where was it I said Barton was a hero again? Cause oddly enough, I don’t recall that connection.

  110. Thanks for the link Joe.

    That’s just the kind of specifics needed. Whether LeMieux thought he was helping out his constituents, or carrying water for BP (maybe both) certainly deserves some scrutiny.

    You would think someone who claims he was pushing for the fund early and for so long might have spoken out when Obama trumpeted the accomplishement as his own, instead LeMieux sounds thankful Obama has assumed control of the fund… Weird.

    The Crist axis certainly is noteworthy.

  111. hello powder I have something I would like to say to you because of it is true, ok? Ok. Here it is.

    powder what I want you to notice is that should BP become a bankrupt husk what no longer employs thousands and thousand of Americans, Mr. Barton will look very very brave and stalwart while the Boehnerfags and the Cantorfags and the Pencefags will look like not unlike reasonable facsimiles of craven cowardly cocksuckers.

    powder please to be reflecting on this notion thank you

  112. oh that should have just been *not unlike*

  113. Just like Barton’s district, which is heavily dependent on the oil industry, is pushing him to protect jobs in the oil industry; other Republicans in states directly impacted by the oil slick are getting pressure from their constituents to get claims paid by BP so they do not go under this season (and they are also pushing to lift the drilling ban too). That is the dynamic pushing all of this. Hell, Dems in the gulf states are almost universally arguing to lift the drilling ban too. That is the wedge issue Republicans should be “drilling” home to Obama.

  114. BP thought up the whole tort fund thing, along with some Republican legislators. After the fact approval does not support your original contention. Did BP think up the pay czar running the fund? The rest is a bunch of flailing from you, to divert from how wrong your wrongness was.

  115. That’s not a political gaffe, those are prepared remarks,” Emanuel said of the Republican Party. “That is a philosophy.”

    Emanuel added: “They see the aggrieved party here as BP, not the fishermen and the communities down there affected.”

    Leastwise Rahm will keep the outragey outragists company.

  116. No the payment czar controlled by Obama thugs was apparently some stupid condition BP agreed to. I did not even mention the payment czar JD. Maybe Biden and Holder held Hayward down and poured oil down his throat to get him to agree to that.

  117. Louisianans a lot cotton to the pathetic helpless slack-jawed help me government before I fuck my cousin victim role, but I don’t think that plays as well across the country as pirouette thinks it does.

  118. Who would want to be the partner in a pas de deux with Mr Stabby?

  119. JD, don’t put words in my mouth. I think Barton a fool for what he said in apologizing to BP at that hearing and then a coward for not explaining what he was really protesting (at least what you say he was really protesting). Politically it was stupid. Barton could have used that bully pulpit to make a real point and he blew it.

  120. What’s kinda interesting is the dirty socialists are helplessly unable constrain themselves from reaching for a Katrina narrative. Team R hates black people, is it? But it’s the cocksucker in chief what threw thousands of black people out of work with his panicky drilling moratorium. And thousand of others too.

  121. *thousands* I mean I need to wake up

  122. “JD, don’t put words in my mouth.”

    Ha! Found that hero connection yet Joe? Hilarious.

  123. Barton could have mentioned how Obama is not helping the mitigation effort, or about the drilling ban, or other real issues that are making this disaster far worse. Instead Barton apologized to BP, becasue BP is the victim of all of this? Sorry. I am not buying that crazy.

  124. No, you have done yeoman’s work in running away from you original comments. I remember now why I ignore you, and shall resume my resolution.

  125. I think Barton a fool for what he said in apologizing to BP at that hearing

    Barton bravely exposed the Boehnerfag Republicans as cowardly cocksuckers unfit for office. You may call that foolish but I call it a national service.

  126. sdferr, you are defending Barton. He is not your hero? Okay? So why are you defending that assclown.

  127. Defending Barton Joe? Is that why I suggested upthread that he could reverse his last apology for his apology? Because I’m saying that his second apology was appropriate? Do you bother to read the threads at all, or do you simply use them as a vehicle in which to emote?

  128. Sometimes the fascination is like watching the idiot car that cut you off and flipped the bird at you, has horribly crashed into a tree and the bleeding driver is STILL blaming others

    This has been a fascinating exercise, because it really drives home how much free market capitalism where profits are private but risks are public has become a religion for the right, which makes big corporations their gods. The shaking anger and hurt expresses at Obama for trying to squeeze anything out of BP to compensate for what they’ve done to the Gulf Coast resembles nothing more than a godbag freaking out on someone who has uttered a blasphemy.

    BP is the Holy Father, apparently, and you can’t insult them no matter what they do.

    The layers of psychotic dishonesty are breathtaking.

  129. Sdferr – if you defend anyone speaking the truth, they are your HERO, and as assclown, apparently.

  130. But carry on by all means Joe with your demand that JD not put words in your mouth, heavens forefend! Again, hilarious stuff, whether intentional or not.

  131. Instead Barton apologized to BP, becasue BP is the victim of all of this? Sorry. I am not buying that crazy.

    Why can’t BP be both a perpetrator AND a victim. Even simultaneously?

    That is, why can’t TWO PARTIES BE WRONG AT ONCE?

    Evidently they can’t, in the world of contemporary Team thinkers. Joe, you should consider how close you are to Pandagon on this. See Darleen’s excerpt, above.

  132. Mr. Barton is what will have to pass for a hero I think in these waning days of freedom to say nothing of respectability.

  133. Hey, so long as it’s politically expedient for Republicans, that makes it right. No problems. We should only be concerned if Dems are involved.

  134. God damn

    Washington (CNN) — A top Democrat kept up the Joe Barton drumbeat Sunday, saying the Republican legislator’s defense of BP last week was an example of GOP ideology that favors big business. […]

    White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel told the ABC program “This Week” that Barton’s comment and other pro-BP statements by Republicans including Kentucky Senate candidate Rand Paul would be a factor in the November congressional elections.

    “In case you forgot what Republican governance is like, Joe Barton reminded you,” Emanuel said, calling Barton’s comments a “philosophy” that considered BP the “aggrieved party” instead of the oil giant responsible for the worst environmental disaster in U.S. history.

    Just.God.Damn.

  135. Barton was right to apologize to BP. ANd he should also have apologized to all of the poor fucks that will get screwed by BP now that their 20 billion fund is being handled (even if they pretend it isn’t) by the fucking Democrat Party. I’d rather sue the limey bastards and take my chances than fill out an on-line application to be fact-checked by either the guy in the BP ads, or the local dockworkers union chief. For fuck’s sake, doesn’t anyone watch On the Waterfront anymore? Maybe they don’t like that Kazan wasn’t a fucking red?

    It’s father’s day and I’m tired of apologizing and the pussies who do it for me.

  136. Insty linked this but it seems a bit all over the place to me.

  137. Interestingly, the world is starting to see America for the thugly loser dirty socialist failshit it is:

    Others suggest the U.S. leader is covering up his own failings in dealing with the disaster.

    “The whole might of American wealth and technology is displayed as utterly unable to deal with the disastrous spill — so what is more natural than a crude, bigoted, xenophobic display of partisan political Presidential petulance against a multinational company?” wrote Conservative Party lawmaker Norman Tebbitt on his website.

    But in India, there were calls for Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to follow Obama’s strident example and gain full retribution for the victims of the 1984 toxic gas leak in Bhopal, which killed an estimated 15,000 people.

    “Kick ass for Bhopal,” pleaded Sunita Narain, director of the Center for Science and Environment, in an editorial in the Hindustan Times. A court earlier this month convicted seven former senior employees of Union Carbide’s Indian subsidiary for their roles in the disaster, but survivors said the light sentences — two years in prison — are too little, too late given the scale of the damage.

  138. With another 20 billion now in the Party’s vote fabrication slush fund, along with all of the oh-so-stimulating billions that have gone before it, the Dems may just be able to achieve their dream of an American Banana Republic.

    For practice: El Presidente for Life, Barack de las Obama! He esta mui bueno hombre, Senor!

  139. The commission has yet to meet, yet some panel members had made their views known.*

    This would be the commission we’re waiting on to lift the moratorium so all those people can go back to work, yes?

  140. Democrat Party math goes mainstream… finally!

    PORT CHESTER, N.Y. — The court-ordered election that allowed residents of one New York town to flip the lever six times for one candidate – and produced a Hispanic winner – could expand to other towns where minorities complain their voices aren’t being heard.

    Are they saying this is new? Have they never heard of Cook County?

    Exit question: What are the odds that this grift will be used “to even things up” in areas where whites are the minority?

  141. A: ZZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  142. EbertPresident:

    To do your part to ensure that this does not happen again please:

    1) turn off your computer
    2) turn off your lights
    3) turn off your a/c
    4) turn off your water
    5) stop driving your car
    6) no public transportation
    7) no trains
    8) no cell phone
    9) beat your clothes against a rock down by the river to clean them

    All of these things which make your miserable existence tolerable are brought to you by companies that people like you have forced to drill in 5,000ft of water.

  143. Turn everything which is powered by oil off for a week, EbertPresident, and you will put a Sarah Palin bumper sticker on your car and write love letters to Exxon Mobil.

    In a show of solidarity, I will follow the regimen that identifies the social justice crowd and pay too much for things with the utterly meaningless “organic” label.

  144. Commission has yet to meet, trial decision has yet to be made, comme ci, comme ça, they’ll get around to it when they get around to it.

  145. beat your clothes against a rock down by the river to clean them

    Make sure those clothes are made from cotton, wool, or linen that has been grown, spun, woven, and sewn within walking distance of the place you are right now.

  146. Oh, and no pesticides or tractors, either.

  147. The more I think on it the more it’s in your face evident that the Bohenerfag Ultimatum is a clear as day sign that the courage and stalwartness of Team R has shriveled at a time when our little country so badly needed to grow these qualities grow.

    The nomination of Meghan’s coward daddy was a foreshadowing I think. At the very least in hindsight it was a clue.

  148. ok I have something to confess English is not my native tongue apparently

  149. Headlines read:

    Nation in shock as EbertPresident, Democrats, strangely reluctant to give up benefits of oil consumption.

    Tough to fabricate votes by hand I guess…

  150. And those clothes you’re beating on the rocks had better have the ‘Union Label’ or EbertPresident just might find itself being beaten on the rocks.

    Just takin’ one for the collectivist team!

  151. Make sure those clothes are made from cotton, wool, or linen that has been grown, spun, woven, and sewn within walking distance of the place you are right now.

    Um, I vote we allow some variances on enforcement of this one. I mean, damn, some things are just too foul to contemplate.

  152. Why can’t BP be both a perpetrator AND a victim. Even simultaneously?

    Of course that is possible. I just have not seen evidence why BP is a victim in this mess.

    You guys completely miss the fact BP agreed to this escrow plan with Obama. The fund was a smart idea for BP, giving control and credit for it to Obama was an exceedingly bad idea. I guess I do not see how a large corporation with legions of lawyers just caved to the relentless pressure of a 45 minute meeting with Obama, Rahm, Janet, Holder, and Biden. If I thought BP was really getting railroaded I would agree with you all.

    I absolutely agree the oil industry is a victim. The residents and environment around the gulf are victims. Oil workers and shareholders are victims.

    BP is paying the price of pushing the schedule too agressively on a dangerous well. But hey, I just think there may be smoke from this story reported by that leftist anti capitalistic rag, the Wall Street Journal. Yeah, BP must be a victim. Show me evidence of how BP is the victim here.

    A week ago, Obama was getting slammed over not calling Hayward. We are not arguing on how the GOP fucked up (and it did fuck up) on handling the congressional hearings and Obama’s meeting. BP was intending an escrow fund and now Obama takes credit for it. Barton blunders, the GOP reacts, and now Barton cowardedly takes back his apology without explaining why. All in all, an excellent example of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I just am not buying we need to defend BP on this. I want the GOP to go on the offensive against Obama. Defending BP is not battle we want to be fighting.

    And JD, last time you got mad about me jumping to conclusions was when I said something stunk with Mark Stanford’s story. You got all indignant about that (just before he disclosed that he was down Argentino way).

  153. BP is the Holy Father, apparently, and you can’t insult them no matter what they do.

    Did BP diddle some alterboys too?

  154. “You guys completely miss the fact BP agreed to this escrow plan with Obama.”

    No Joe, no one is unaware of the general behavior of BP, but that isn’t the question, not now, not at the beginning of the thread, not when Barton made his initial remarks, not tomorrow, not next year, not a century from now.

  155. Maybe BP had intentions of setting up a legitimate compensation fund.

    Instead they got strong armed into giving Obama his own personal slush fund. So yes, that makes them a victim, kind of like the former head of GM who got ‘fired’ by Obumbles.

    Quit trying to pretend otherwise.

  156. actually the escrow fund idea came from Daddy Soros’s Center for American Progress

    Require BP to put $5 billion—its first quarter 2010 profits—into an escrow fund to ensure prompt payments for clean up and compensation.*

    the thug in chief decided he could gank BP for four quarters worth. But there’s no advantage to BP of losing 20 billion dollars that won’t count against damages or penalties in the future. It’s just a transfer of wealth at gunpoint from British pensioners to the thugly dirty socialist coward state of failmerica.

  157. Not just British pensioners.

    I imagine my pension plan holds some BP stock too.

    I hope they use my monies to soap up a pelican.

  158. From hf’s link [my emphasis]:

    The public is hungry for a direct, bold response to the oil disaster—one that clearly reduces American dependence on all oil, regardless of origin.

    Zat right, all ya’ll Americans? Had done with oil and oil products have ye? Or is John Podesta putting words in your mouths?

  159. “Zat right, all ya’ll Americans? Had done with oil and oil products have ye? Or is John Podesta putting words in your mouths?”

    Well, it would be nice to hear a specific on what response to the disaster would also reduce our dependence on oil.

    I, for one, am at a loss as to how plugging the damn hole will further the goal of reducing or replacing the consumption of oil.

  160. And what is the truth, that which Americans wouldn’t understand?

  161. “…what response to the disaster would also reduce our dependence on oil. ”

    What, Commander’o-the-economy-in-Chief Preznit Barry’s remarks from the oval office weren’t adequate to that end? heh.

  162. sdferr, happy, etc. What gun did Obama point at BP’s head? Why is Barton right in calling this a shake down? BP agreed to it. Why not use the BP hearings to point out a host of Obama failings on this handling the spill and the oil industry in general (without apologizing to BP for its own stupid business decisions)?

  163. Oh fuck, Cynn showed up. Now I am going to be grouped with Cynn because I am not going along with groupthink BP love today. Motherfucker.

  164. “BP agreed to it.”

    Indeed Joe, and that is an argument that there was no shakedown? That would be an odd argument, since the whole idea of a shakedown is that the shaking party is stronger and the shook party will succumb, no? So let’s dispense with that one for now.

  165. Seriously. What is this truth? I keep watching the oil spew; it’s mesmerizing. But what do we not get? Americans can be dense, evidently.

  166. Groupthink BP love?

    Oh brother.

  167. What gun did Obama point at BP’s head? The most obvious moving piece is the fines that the government will get to assess. There could be a preliminary assessment tomorrow. Or not. It’s all up to how cooperative their feeling.

  168. *they’re*… it’s like I can’t make the words today

  169. By the way, have you troubled yourself to listen to or read Mr Barton’s statement Joe? Is there a chance that you can make out what he was getting at, what with all that talk of the Attorney General making statements of his own about criminal liabilities and investigations and such?

  170. The problem was Barton’s framing. Is it too much to ask that if they decide they are going bring us out on this limb they do it well? Ace had a second post on the issue with appropriate framing. Still standing up for the rule of law, in a way that doesn’t leave the impression that Reps want to dip baby sea otters in crude.

  171. Here’s an argument for it being a shakedown.

    I disagree. BP gave in on its own. Stupid, yeah (especially since they were going to do it anyway). But it was BP’s decision.

  172. oh that’s good of old Ace but the framing that Barton was wrong and stupid and the dirty socialist thug in chief was on the side of the angels was the framing the Boehnerfags ultimately settled on.

  173. But, if stuffing the pipe with baby sea otters stops the leak and reduces out dependence on oil, we are for it, right?

  174. Of course, one could always be cynical and say BP should dump as much as its worth as possible into an untouchable escrow account.

  175. As I noted upthread it’s easy to frame things properly in retrospect, motionview. Just ask Mr Frey what Rush should have said; or how Stacey McCain should better hide his subconscious racism (which may or may not exist, and may or may not be his).

    But in order to get to retrospect, you first have to have something framed to then re-frame.

    Best to say nothing on the front end, is the smart paly. No need for a middle man to get you to the back end in that case — and, bonus! you can never be blamed for improper framing!

  176. Does anyone really not think that someday one of the Brits is going to tell the world how the cocksucker thug president of failmerica held a gun to BP’s head?

    Do you think they’ll want to own this fag-ass decision to sodomize their own shareholders for the rest of their lives?

    I kinda doubt it.

  177. you know this is gonna be a Major Motion Picture

  178. BP can’t say that, happy. Because the President is doing ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING HE CAN, AS QUICKLY AS IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE, to minimize damages.

    What? You expected him to suck the oil up with a straw? Or let foreign skimmers into his union pond?

  179. Oh. But BP offered. So it’s all good.

    Nevermind.

  180. I don’t understand the purpose of this post. That is all.

  181. Sdferr – isn’t it lovely, and positively ironic, when people that in other times claim to value intention, now choose to tell others what they think? Even more so when what they tell us we think bears little resemblance to reality.

  182. we will see but I think it’s safe to say that America will not be covered in glory at the end of this

  183. you know this is gonna be a Major Motion Picture

    Jaleel White certainly hopes so.

  184. “In politics… never retreat, never retract… never admit a mistake.”
    – Napoleon Bonaparte

    I wouldn’t have said what Barton said in the way he said it. But there was nothing wrong with what he said other than the way he said it, and that could have been fixed after the fact — the GOP leaders who slammed down hard on Barton missed the opportunity to use his remarks as a way of furthering the case against Obama’s arrogant and possibly unlawful unilateral actions with respect to BP’s assets.

    E.g., “Rep. Barton was wrong to apologize to Mr. Hayward for President Obama’s actions, because the people who are owed an apology for those actions are the American people. The American people rely on the checks and balances between the three branches of our government to ensure that it acts with both justice and fairness on their behalf. The President acting unilaterally to impose a settlement on BP, without Congressional or judicial oversight, may not rise to the level of a ‘shakedown,’ but it’s pretty darn close. And it leaves open too many questions about whether and how this backroom deal actually holds BP accountable for capping the well and stopping further damage, over and above compensating the Americans already harmed by their oil spill.”

  185. Sdferr – I also rather enjoy it when someone brags about having been accidentally kind of correct due to jumping to a conclusion based on nothing but speculation.

  186. This hearing was not the venue to make the point about the escrow fund, and using the word ‘apologize’ was simply stupid.

    The entire purpose of the hearing was ritual vilification of the CEO of BP for the public to see. It was not for the purpose of discovering any new information, nor determining any future course of action. Not the time or place to bring this up.

    Barton scored an own goal. By making a legitimate point incompetently, he has in fact given some protection from future scrutiny to the escrow/slush fund arrangement.

    If his words are twisted, it’s because they are so twistable.

    What can the GOP do other than tell him to shut up about it, and wait for it to blow over?

  187. they taped over Mr. Barton’s mouth and scribbled out the truth with their lies I think

  188. If his words are twisted, it’s because they are so twistable.

    CHECKMATE!

    What can the GOP do other than tell him to shut up about it, and wait for it to blow over?

    Why, nothing. Because once you say one thing, you aren’t allowed to clarify or expand. Instead, you have to wait to see how people are planning on using it against you, then rush to apologize.

    Really. It’s in the rule book. I saw it.

  189. You’re all full of bullshit. America will do what is always has to: clean up the foreign and sovereign catboxes we continue to inherit. It is as it ever was.

  190. He should have been smarter. The slush fund should have been brought up elsewhere.

  191. If his words are twisted, it’s because they are so twistable.

    This is considered, uh, debatable around here, General.

  192. “If his words are twisted, it’s because they are so twistable. ”

    Ah. Like “I hope he fails”.

    *facepalm*

  193. He should have been smarter.

    Exactly. My “everyone should just shut up, and then no one could possibly ever say anything ‘twistable'”-strategy is looking more GENIUS by the minute!

    We’ll just let the lawyers talk for us. And of course, interpret for us, as well.

    Just to be safe.

  194. I apologize for Joe approving of Barcky’s shakedown. I apologize for cynn being drunk. I apologize for the MFM being douchenozzles. I apologize for y’all being racist and I denounce you.

  195. All right, they should have clarified and expanded instead of acting guilty.

    But are you claiming that Barton did not dump a large problem in their laps?

    And is letting it blow over for a few days before returning to the subject of the legality of the fund a bad thing?

  196. YOU THERE — THE ONE WITH AN OPINION THAT HASN’T BEEN OFFICIALLY VETTED BY THE PARTY! YOU AREN’T BEING VERY HELPFUL!

  197. Did you know opposing government healthcare makes you a racist?

    Well, it can be twisted into racism.

    Best just to keep quiet about it.

    Or at least wait for a better time to express your opposition. Like, you know, when no one can hear you.

  198. But are you claiming that Barton did not dump a large problem in their laps?

    Barton dumped an opportunity into their laps.

    — And true to form, they turned that opportunity into a colossal show of cowardice and guilt — all because they already play by the rules the left has established for their discourse.

    They were so worried about not looking like the right the left has defined that they never considered what it is they actually stood for.

  199. And is letting it blow over for a few days before returning to the subject of the legality of the fund a bad thing?

    Yeah, how’s that working out so far?

  200. Yes – they partially quote and misrepresent things, often.

    Did Barton make a mistake or not?

  201. Boehner stands for bending over, Jeff. Which is easier to do metaphorically than physically.

  202. Ok, that’s it for me.

    Americans are scared of their own shadows. Best to go through life in the safety of the herd. Just like the founders wanted.

  203. Best to say nothing on the front end, is the smart play
    So there is nothing in between abject surrender and poorly articulating a truth in a way that allows the media wing to enforce a bad impression with the low info voters?

  204. House Minority Leader John Boehner told his conference to “behave like grown-ups” if the healthcare bill is passed by the House on Sunday.
    […]
    According to several lawmakers who attended the 15 minute meeting, Boehner said “we will behave like grown-ups,” and not engage in taunting the vulnerable Democrats who support the controversial measure.*

    In related news, Alan Grayson (D) just shot a man in Florida for not supporting the bill.

  205. I just transcripted Barton’s entire remarks, not just the apology portion, which as it happens add something of context to the reports about the apology itself. Does anyone want to see it?

  206. Yes, sdferr.

  207. Ok, one taker’s enough for me, here goes.

  208. All right, my intial take about the GOPs handling of this was wrongheaded. Yes, they were dead wrong.

    But this Barton – I watched his remarks and I squirmed.

    I agree with the arguments made about intent, and about the corruption of language by the left.

    What I’m saying is, the Barton thing is a genuine gaffe. You say it’s being run through the same machinery as other non-gaffe remarks, and it is.

  209. Thank you Mr Chairman. We have kind of a dual track underway in my opinion, we obviously are trying to gather the facts, what happened in the oil spill in the gulf of Mexico a month and a half ago, trying to find out the causes of that spill, what can be done to prevent it in the future, we’re obviously very concerned about the mitigation and the cleanup; We have a system in America, built up based on the British tradition over two hundred years of due process and fairness where people that do bad things — in this case a corporation that’s responsible for a bad accident — we want to hold them responsible do what we can to make the liable parties pay for the damages.

    Mr Stupak and Mr Waxman are doing an excellent job working with Dr Burgess and myself in conducting a very fair oversight investigation we’re going to get into a number of those issues in this hearing and we’re going to ask you some pretty tough questions.

    I’m speaking now for myself, I’m not speaking for anybody in the House of Representatives but myself, but I’m ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday. I think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown. In this case a $20 billion shakedown. With the Atty Gen of the US who is legitimately conducting a criminal investigation and has every right to do so to protect the interests of the American people participating in what amounts to a 20 Billion dollar slush fund that’s unprecedented in our nation’s history, that’s got no legal standing, which sets I think a terrible precedent for the future, if I called you into my office and I had the subcommittee chairman Mr Stupak with me, who was legitimately conducting an oversight investigation on your company, and said if you put so many millions of dollars in a project in my congressional district I could go to jail and should go to jail.

    Now, there is no question that British Petroleum owns this lease. There is no question that British Petroleum — that B.P. — I’m sorry. It’s not British Petroleum anymore — that B.P. made decisions that objective people think compromise safety. There is no question that B.P. is liable for the damages.

    But we have a due process system, where we go through hearings, in some cases court cases, litigation, and determine what those damages are and when those damages should be paid. So I’m only speaking for myself, I’m not speaking for anybody else, but I apologize, I do not want to live in a country where anytime a citizen or a corporation does something that is legitimately wrong is subject to some sort of political pressure that is again in my words amounts to a shakedown. So I apologize.

    But on this hearing today, I am with Mr Waxman with Mr Stupak, there are questions that need to be asked that are legitimate because we don’t want another oil spill of this magnitude or of any magnitude in the Gulf of Mexico and if this subcommittee can do things that make it much more difficult for an incident of this type to occur in the future we will have done our job for the American people. And with that, I yield back.

  210. So there is nothing in between abject surrender and poorly articulating a truth in a way that allows the media wing to enforce a bad impression with the low info voters?

    I don’t know, is there?

    Oh, that’s right. The answer is, “he should have said it better.”

  211. I just have not seen evidence why BP is a victim in this mess.

    Let’s see: they come to that meeting, tails between their legs, where they find sitting Attorney General Holder, who has already made noises about criminal prosecutions. Bad cop. Barcky smiles, says, look, there may be something you can do to, you know, stay out of jail. One of these nice cards. Just hit the cup soundly, and we’ll see what we can do. For you. Good cop that I am.

    Even criminals can be victims, it seems.

    And yes, this event was a classic shakedown. The courts and due process were subverted by Barack Hussein Obama, and unaware Americans blithely allow that a pass, as Rham Emanuel helps guide their thinking to terms that will punish Barton. For telling the truth.

  212. There you go with that refusal to soundbite again, sdferr. Don’t you know that low-info voters can’t handle soundbites over one sentence long? And that we all must cater to these people?

    They are the salt of the earth, after all. These vast swaths of morons. God bless ‘em.

  213. So I’m only speaking for myself, I’m not speaking for anybody else, but I apologize

    Such clarifications are worthless. Because THE DEMS KNOW WHAT ALL REPUBLICANS MEAN AS A PHILOSOPHY, AND THEY WILL TELL YOU WHAT THAT IS!

    And the GOP will apologize for showing its true colors, and so reinforce that it is still just as the Dems have always said it is.

    Finally, GOP opinion shapers will come out of the woodwork to show just how Barton should have said what he said. Instead of saying what he did say, which was decidedly unhelpful.

    ****

    Well played.

  214. Thank you, sdferr. Context be damned, and why are you defending your HERO, BP?

  215. “I apologize”

    Is there ever such a thing as a poorly thought-out remark?

  216. “Did Barton make a mistake or not?”

    When? Or, well, obviously he made a mistake at some point, since he reversed his own course and apologized a second time for apologizing. So yeah, if I’m allowed to define when he made a mistake, I’d say yes, of course he did, when he bowed to Boehner’s pressure and threats to remove his sub-committee chairmanship. Barton should have at that point told Boehner to go take a flying leap. That was his error of judgment.

  217. Bullshit, and etc. this is not a shakedown, as you rubes want to characterize it. It was a corporate, calculated move on BP’s part.

  218. I can’t believe cynn and I are taking the same position.

    Then again, some of you giving a spirted defense of BP is rather Sontagish.

  219. “Is there ever such a thing as a poorly thought-out remark?”

    Of course. But that doesn’t mean that you follow it up with an abject apology. You use the controversy to push the well-thought-out meaning behind the poor choice of words.

    Prof. Groteschille was right. He’s the character in Fail-Safe who urges the President to follow up the accidental attack by Bomber Group Six on the USSR with a full-scale attack. He points out that the USA would never have started a war deliberately, but the accidental incursion of Group Six has opened up the opportunity for the USA. The President rejects Prof. Groteschille’s advice, and to what result? Oh, that’s right: the President is forced to order two twenty-megaton bombs to be detonated over Manhattan, in order to prove to the Soviets our underlying peaceful intentions.

  220. Not a shakedown, cynn? You’re flying straight out of Planet Winebox again, obviously. BP has responsibility for this disaster, and of course they planned to make this right. Does the fact that they came prepared to pay absolve BHO from his role as extra-legal bad cop?

    Where did BHO get the authority to demand anything from BP, cynn? Show me in any law link you know. I’ll wait.

  221. Well my suggestion of what Tony Hayward should have done (if he were Japanese) may have happened (at least in part). I count six administration members in the picture, and there has to be at least two more out of frame…

    Tony Hayward was ritually raped by Team Obama, World Police, before being flung under the bus by BP (along with a $20 billion guarantee over four years). Not as classy as Tony committing sepuku in Congress, but it is temporarily satisfying.

  222. Those self-immolating monks? More power to ‘em.

  223. Cynn, don’t you think that the best thing to do to show that there was and is no shakedown going on would be for the administration to come forth tomorrow and proclaim that BP is released from this government involved escrow account and that BP is free to go out on its own to pay damage claims in the Gulf privately, as it sees fit, until such time as court cases may move and if BP be found at fault and ordered by a court to pay certain damages, and only then to pay those court ordered damages?

    Or for that matter, for BP itself to come forth tomorrow and proclaim that since it entered into a non-legally binding voluntary agreement consequent to no shakedown whatsoever, that it is now voluntarily withdrawing from said prior agreement in order to show that no shakedown was involved in the first instance, and that BP will henceforth set out to create its own escrow account (if it sees fit to do so of course) and have a neutral party of BP’s choosing administer the pay-outs to the unfortunates of the Gulf from that account?

    Wouldn’t that be just peachy?

  224. I think I mentioned this before, O serrated one. It might greatly benefit BP to sequester its assets into an unassailable account that is immune from instant lawsuits. Just saying. Not a legal expert.

  225. Mr Sherman, a lot of ellipses need be deployed to get down to your soundbite characterization of what was being conveyed in those remarks.

    But hey. That’s the price you pay for speaking.

    SAY NOTHING! IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE!

  226. I am not seeking to be a contrarian for its own sake, nor raise the blood pressure of the proprietor, nor deny that all speech can be misrepresented and often is. And Barton’s point was valid. I will leave the matter of how he said it alone now.

    I have a question to raise. I don’t know the answer. The various things that this Administration has done – like screwing the GM preferred shareholders out of all their money, like ramming through the ‘healthcare’ bill and all the arm-twisting that went into it, like setting up this $20 billion fund outside of due process — will these be revisited? Will there be hearings about those?

  227. can you imagine being he who sends money to CNN’s dork-ass oil spill telethon?

    That has a gay factor of like a thoosand.

  228. I used to do a bit here where I had Sam Beckett-type posts.

    I never meant them as a blue print. At the time.

    Now, however…

  229. I apologize for Joe approving of Barcky’s shakedown.

    Hey JD, I never said I approve Barack Obama’s actions. Obama is an opportunistic douchenozzel. What I said is I have no sympathy for BP for agreeing to such a deal and then all of you crying how mean Obama and Holder were. BP are a huge corporation, they can defend themselves. They caved–on a fucking plan they had in the works anyway. Why? They perceived that they were better off giving in. Right or wrong, they agreed to this.

    Is BP a French oil company?

  230. […].

  231. You count six, Joe? There’s at least one more that I can see.

  232. Egrets, I have a few. But BP can suck by bird cock.

  233. Godot? If that asshole ever shows up, he better be carrying a pre-approved sign if he wants to take part in the Existentialist Party.

  234. “Will there be hearings about those?”

    Could be!

  235. serr8d, I think you can count his hand as one more. As Kevin Jennings said, damn rule of law, full speed ahead!

  236. Remember when the left went berserk over Cheney having meetings behind closed doors with oil executives? We must have the meeting transcripts now, they’d say. Anyone interested in reading transcripts of Obama’s closed door meetings with oil chieftains?

  237. No actually Kevin Jennings never said that.

  238. “Then again, some of you giving a spirted defense of BP is rather Sontagish”

    Who has defended BP?

    It’s Bartons original point that is being defended. And even he was not defending BP, but condemning the Obama administrations handling of the situation.

    It’s kinda like the LA police department apologizing to Rodney King for his ass whipping from the police. Don’t mean you love Rodney or approve of his lifestyle. It means the police acted criminally, regardless what King did.

    It’s probably our fault though. There were comments made that could be twisted into being characterized as defending BP, so obviously those comments shouldn’t have been made.

    The best defense is a good offense being very, very quiet.

  239. Hey, Lee, you picked up a work project that’s kept you away, right?

    How’s it going?

  240. Hi Lee McGehee is missing too

  241. and I think buttons too

  242. The boat races were smashing today. I called Obama and we laughed about the ass raping I got. He said he played well today on the links and thanked me for the political cover. He said that he remembers a favor.

    BP was one of the President’s biggest donors.

  243. Heh, I give you Professor Groeteschele.

  244. Yeah, I’ve been busier than a three peckered billy goat during weaning season.

    Everythings good though. Busy hands are happy hands and all that shit.

  245. I’d be happy to defend BP on a few particulars.

    Prosecutor: Why are you drilling at such potentially dangerous depths?

    Defense: Because it’s illegal to open up new operations in safer places in the US.

    Prosecutor: Isn’t it true that you’re a very profitable company selling a commodity that’s jumped up in price?

    Defense: Well, more drilling across the board would decrease the price of oil and decrease our ROI. So, why do you hate the working stiff who has to put $50 into his gas tank every week?

    Prosecutor: Hey, I’m asking the questions here.

  246. Glad to hear that, Lee.

  247. OT, from Insty:

    An official from the Bill Clinton era said that “no one will be surprised” if Mr Emanuel left after the midterm elections in November, when the Democratic party will battle to save its majorities in the house of representatives and the senate.

  248. Damn Goldstein. When you reflect on how your day went, think of the good students, not the bad ones. You know that.

  249. Thanks bh, I appreciate the sentiments.

  250. How does a multinational typically deal with a problem in some backwater banana republic? Yep, you guessed it, they grease the palms of the local headman.

    BP did exactly what was expected of them when they sat down with Obama.

    No wonder Obama doesn’t believe in American exceptionalism, that would require restraint and judiciousness on his part. Shakedown is what he knows.

  251. nicely said Mr. D

  252. Sometimes Jeff G. must get frustrated, saying the same things over and over (although about different people and events, mostly) and still not have people who read the site understand his point, however and however many times he makes it.

    Fuck it, I’m going offtrack.

    Wm. T. Sherman? What the fuck? I just posted this over at The Other McCain after browsing some links from the site and finding out some important shit about Wm. T. Sherman from The Indentured Servant Girl blog after clicking the link on the sidebar.

    “‘The Indentured Servant Girl’ blog linked to the right has some interesting material.

    Evidently Lincoln, Sherman, and Grant were bad men who fought very dirty against those Southern boys and girls and babies they killed, while the South fought the civil war without the same lack of morals.

    The North and South are morally equivilent, except the Southerners cared more about their slaves (as individuals, not as one would care about property or anything greedy like that, in fact it was the North that was greedy and exploiting workers unlike the South in 1860) and of course the South fought fair and with honor, unlike the North.

    Since Sherman, Grant, and Lincoln brought heretofore the entirely absent concept of genocide to “modern” Western society according the Murry Rothbard quote in the piece, we can also blame Sherman, Grant, and Lincoln for the holocaust.

    After all, if the three Northern aggressors wouldn’t have introduced mean, bad war tactics in the Civil War, Hitler presumably never would have figured out how to kill so many.

    I can see why people think The South Will Rise Again (that silly Northerly “The Band” song with it’s talk about raising a King “in defeat” aside).

    Deo Vindici, except if you’re not like the person who wrote Deo Vindici, then the words don’t apply to you (sorry ISG, that means you because you are not a white man).”

  253. McGehee is missing too

    not really, he’s been posting under another handle: ak4mc

  254. why he be all like dat?

  255. I thought that was his wife.

  256. Oh, that’s right. The answer is, “he should have said it better.”
    Yes, he should have said it better. I don’t understand why that would be a ridiculous position. So I apologize. Just don’t use those three words, and then the headline can’t be “Barton(R) apologizes to BP”.

  257. BP PLC, despite being put under pressure by the U.S. government to pay for the oil-spill aftermath, has succeeded in pushing back on two White House proposals it considered unreasonable, even as it made big concessions, said officials familiar with the matter.

    […]

    BP successfully argued it shouldn’t be liable for most of the broader economic distress caused by the president’s six-month moratorium on deep-water drilling in the Gulf of Mexico. And it fended off demands to pay for restoration of the Gulf coast beyond its prespill conditions.*

  258. And it fended off demands to pay for restoration of the Gulf coast beyond its prespill conditions.

    Read that again.

    Do it. Read it again.

  259. heh

    The BP side was so confident that Ms. Gorelick suggested the two sides allow idled workers submit claims to Mr. Feinberg and let a court to decide whether the company was liable.

  260. Not that the part about BP paying for Barky’s own decision (unsupported by experts, though they lied about that) on the moratorium doesn’t give away their game from the jump.

  261. hf, I think that’s McG’s ham call-sign is what that is.

  262. We’re living in a banana republic. Full stop. ThomasD’s comment above wasn’t a metaphor. It was entirely descriptive.

  263. oh. my dad was a ham radio person sorta kinda… I wonder where his radio is I will ask my sister if I can have

  264. It’s finally raining everyday so the bananas are coming on strong.

  265. Hello, Mr. Multi-National Comglomerate, would you like to invest here in the United States, make some money and create jobs?

    Hello? Hello?

  266. Why does Obama hate employed people?

  267. Conglomerate, if you want to bust my balls about it. Ball-busters.

  268. Nope, thanks for the offer anyway, but maybe in a few years after we’ve made some money in a more stable environment and your sanity returns, if it returns. Send news.

  269. I don’t think Americans cannot understand a context, it is that they are out of practice.

    I never watch the Whatever-O-Clock news, save for local weather, because getting my “news” as a 3-5 sentence, 45-60 second bit is NOT “covering the story”. It is the opening paragraph of a newspaper article with the remaining 10 paragraphs that expand on the first.

    Couple it with texting, tweeting and all manner of rhetorical dim sum and the small tasty bits of “news” are seasoned and served up by a MSM made up of J-school grads indoctrinated in advocacy journalism.

    Too many Americans have flabby grey matter in disgesting the news and coming to their own conclusion because the statists pat them on the head and say, “don’t worry your pretty little head about it.”

    Now the government wants to subsidize journalism and control the internet through the FCC?

    Americans need to exercise their brains — learn to critically evaluate and to read all manner of stuff so they can learn to pick out the corn from the shit.

    We ALL have gotten to used to thinking political rhetoric is Teh.Most.Important.Thing because the MSM tells us so.

    Fuck ‘em.

    When JeffG says “drop and gimme 20″, we need to do so and rebuild our intentionalist muscles.

  270. argh PIMF

    should read: “It is the opening paragraph of a newspaper article without the remaining 10 paragraphs that expand on the first.”

  271. Comment by easyliving1 on 6/20 @ 10:18 pm #

    Can’t find any of it. If you want me to look at something, then link it.

  272. ew, and no really I mean ew, if the corn is in the shit it isn’t worth the having anymore I think. Better to wander down to the store and buy a couple of fresh ears and a watermelon.

  273. ‘You can’t raise a Caine back up when he’s in defeat…’

    Not king, but Caine, as in Virgil’s dead brother. It’s a Biblical allusion, not one about royalty.

  274. sdferr

    If the major newsfeeds are continuing to be AssPress and Reuters … what with major metro newspapers closing down their distant bureaus … then we have to be willing to sift through tons of crap to find the truth where we can.

    Anyone center or right of center running a newsfeed organization equal to those two?

  275. I’m not averse to gleaning grain from the threshing floor but I’ll be goddamned if I’m gonna pick corn out of shit.

  276. The panel appointed by President Barack Obama to investigate the Gulf of Mexico oil spill has yet to meet, yet some panel members are making their views known, with one member blogging about it regularly. Only one of the seven commissioners, the dean of Harvard’s engineering and applied sciences school, has a prominent engineering background — but it’s in optics and physics. Another is an environmental scientist with expertise in coastal areas and the after effects of oil spills. Both are praised by other scientists. The five other commissioners are experts in policy and management. The White House said the commission will focus on the government’s “too cozy” relationship with the oil industry. Environmental activist Frances Beinecke on May 27 blogged about “America’s addiction to oil.” Two other commissioners also have gone public to urge bans on drilling.

    so 3 of the 7 already want a permanent ban on drilling before president fuckstick’s panel has a single meeting… one more and fuckstick has destroyed an entire industry

  277. There’s a decent chance I’ll become a failcommenter in a failstate relatively soon.

    Hey, ‘feets, sorry about busting your balls with my sunshine and happiness bullshit awhile back.

  278. And, now, a comment by Pablo earlier makes sense to me. Along with a couple by dicentra.

    Yes, I’m slow. My bad.

  279. hah no worries it’s a lot to take in

  280. Sou’Korea’s where those massive rigs get made. Industry out the ying-yang. And kim chee also.

  281. so 3 of the 7 already want a permanent ban on drilling before president fuckstick’s panel has a single meeting

    Hmmm… I seem to recall someone who has not apologized for “Drill Baby Drill”

  282. yes… cause the dirty socialists and the unions killed the shipbuilding industry in America many moons ago

  283. Camden, Chester …. gone.

  284. she’s been silent on the savagings of both barton and daniels

  285. If this goes into another Palin argument, it started at #282.

  286. You know, for the record and all.

  287. I’m going to keep speaking and writing about this in the simplest of terms until someone can provide a simple answer as to why liberal Democrats don’t understand that we have safe, warehoused onshore and shallow water reserves waiting for permission to be extracted. They either choose not to understand the geology, science, and technology behind an “all-of-the-above” approach to energy security, or they understand it, yet for whatever frightening reason choose to be lap dogs to Chavez and Ahmadinejad.

  288. I don’t understand why that would be a ridiculous position.

    Because deciding what is better takes retrospect. And you can’t speak in retrospect.

  289. bh

    Ok… I’ll back away. But with all the snarling (rightful) at GOP “leaders” who forced Barton to apologize, we shouldn’t ignore those that say “what to do you MEAN stop drilling? Hey assholes, you gonna be typing on a ‘puter made of oak?” That includes Palin and Jindal and others …

    Oh…Not ARnold by the way. He sleeps with a green so he figures he can just toss away an easy $100 million in oil leases by rescinding the earlier decision to expand drilling off shore in Central CA.

  290. You can of course scold and finger wag in retrospect, though. And demand apologies. And act as if what was said can never be clarified — and by its very utterance kills orphans.

  291. Darleen, my favorite Palin subject is energy policy. Followed closely by her ability to communicate that.

    Big ups for her.

    Just think that can be expressed by itself and not as a comment towards anyone else.

    Let’s be like Kool and the gang.

  292. And I wrote that before reading your comment. Let the good times continue.

  293. and by its very utterance kills orphans.

    Shit. It’s worse than I thought. Boehner should kill Barton, before it’s too late.

  294. It occurs to me that my comment above could get me banned at Hot Air.

    That’s… America nowadays.

  295. It occurs to me that my comment above could get me banned at Hot Air.

    They’d be doing you a favor. You might just as well carry on a serious political discussion in the comments of a YouTube video…

  296. Heh, John. Right you are.

  297. Whatever happened to returning the conversation back on point.
    Every sales person uses a version “I don’t know about that, but what I do know…”
    When asked about the apology, Barton should be prepared to ignore the question and deliver his talking points.
    If the GOP was smart they’d push back by dismissing “apology talk” and going into the strengths of their argument.
    Running away makes you look cowardly and guilty. Have the strength power and courage to turn the conversation back to substance… and that is hard to do when your friends run off and join the other side.

    Let’s say you are a pitcher and you want to nudge a batter back off the plate a bit and it gets away and hits the batter square… the other team all rush the mound while instead of coming to your defense, your teammates start lecturing you.
    There are quite a few conservative voices who are shitty teammates and it breeds disgust… because if they get attacked, am I supposed to help them out now?
    Maybe I’m carrying the baseball fight thing too far, but even if I think a teammate is an ass, I at least make sure no one gets in a clean punch and I’d tell the batter to man up and get over to first base.

    By the way, while I am on sports, did you see the guy from Ivory Coast take a nudge of an elbow in the chest and then he grabs his face, falls to the ground and acts like he was in agony?
    So he gets Kaka from Brazil sent off in the 87th minute… Kaka is DQ’ed for the next game so now I don’t get to see Kaka and Cristiano Ronaldo go at it. What an asshole.
    Anyway The Democrats are always flopping and grabbing their faces and our teammates are supporting them because the elbow was inartful. At least support your teammates by telling the Democrats to stfu with the diversion and get back to business

  298. There’s a decent chance I’ll become a failcommenter in a failstate relatively soon.

    I thought we’d had the union demarcation meeting and decided that was my gig, bh.

  299. The White House said the commission will focus on the government’s “too cozy” relationship with the oil industry.

    lolwut?

  300. y want a permanent ban on drilling before president fuckstick’s panel has a single meeting… one more and fuckstick has destroyed an entire industry

    Yea, I’m just dying to know what his commission comes up with. It’s really a mystery which way they’re gonna go. Kinda like his tax overhaul committee.

  301. I think we should start doing one of those “DAY X” things for the Jones act. This is Day 64 of Obama refusing to lift the Jones act …

    Control the message. This deal with Barton – the libs have managed to control the message. We’re always on defense.

  302. When asked about the apology, Barton should be prepared to ignore the question and deliver his talking points.
    If the GOP was smart they’d push back by dismissing “apology talk” and going into the strengths of their argument.
    Running away makes you look cowardly and guilty. Have the strength power and courage to turn the conversation back to substance… and that is hard to do when your friends run off and join the other side.

    EXACTLY. Control the message. By even allowing them to frame their question – by responding – you’ve allowed them to frame the message how they want.

  303. I would suggest that some of us reflect on whether or not we applied our intentionalist muscles in the Daniels discussions. And Joe is a dick. Nobody is “defending” BP, rather showing how Barcky acted well beyond the authority given him by our laws and Constitution. So you can take you Sontag and shove it up your ass, provided your head has left any room in there.

  304. How many times has meya been banned? Get help.

  305. Meya and all 8934 of her personalities would be history.

  306. Well, you’ll notice what she’s doing JD. Rather than contribute to the conversation, she’s merely digging into the debate dynamics. Accusing us of not being accepting of differing opinions.

    Despite the fact, of course, that we’ve got differing opinions.

  307. Shut the fuck up meya. You’re not a part of any “we” here aside from the people you share your own head with.
    Joe and JD with hold hands and skip down the street singing “rubber ducky” together before either would piss on you if you were on fire.

  308. joe and jd would …

    COFFEE NOW!!!

  309. OH NOS. More stuff that’ll need to be clarified.

    Of course it’s a shakedown:

    Following the rule of law would produce relief for the oil spill’s victims. It just wouldn’t put Obama’s appointee in sole charge of a $20 billion fund. That has a meaning beyond the “Chicago” implication of pure extortion, fund-skimming, and payola. It means Obama couldn’t use the money to cushion the near-term consequences of his own policies. He’d be constrained by that pesky rule of law, if he weren’t holding the discretionary purse strings for the damages payouts.

    Only blockheads didn’t understand that THIS is what Barton was referring.

    Which. Yes. duh. Politicians and reporters.

  310. Abe – That was totally uncalled for. I denounce you.

    Carin – That is all it ever does, at least when it is not lying, diverting, deflecting, obfuscating, projecting, or being otherwise mendoucheous.

  311. Carin – I think Barone let loose on the idea that this was not a shakedown as well.

  312. The head of a $20 billion fund to compensate victims for financial losses due to the BP Plc (BP.L) (BP.N) Gulf of Mexico oil spill said on Monday he will “err on the side of the claimant” in paying emergency relief.

    “With the emergency payments … you’ve got to allow those payments to go out with less corroboration than you would if you’re giving a lump-sum payment that is the total compensation,” Kenneth Feinberg, the independent administrator of the fund, told CNN.

    “For the emergency payments, we’ve got to err on the side of the claimant,” he added.*

    I need some moneys Kennef cause of our whore cocksucker president is making me sick I think.

  313. the only reason why anyone would anyone get behind a cowardly homo like Cantor is for so him and his Boehnerfag buddies couldn’t push you in front of a bus I think

  314. This is why I am not the enforcer, as your continued existence at this site would not be tolerated.

  315. I have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about meya. But if you have to choose between explaining this and killing yourself, please know that I can live with this particular hole in my knowledge base.

  316. Barcky Obambi could not be reached for comment, as he was at a Nationals game singing Take Me Out To the Ballgame and then golfing. Evil boat races. Evil.

  317. “With the emergency payments … you’ve got to allow those payments to go out with less corroboration than you would if you’re giving a lump-sum payment that is the total compensation,” Kenneth Feinberg, the independent ad

    Less corroboration? Like, you know, tax returns proving that you were in such and such business?

  318. slushy!

  319. Carin – He is right about the way he is approaching that. The only question would be is to what degree they will err on the side of caution.

  320. It just seems to me that they’re going to be handing out a ton of money to folks who simply see this as an opportunity to get some of that Obama money.

    Call me a cynic.

  321. You are a cynic. ;-) Justifiably so. However, during the initial response to a tragedy/disaster, the idea of erring on the side of the claimant is pretty common, at least where I worked in the past. Maybe they were the exceptions.

  322. Abe – I would sooner make sweet sweet love to a dwarf clown than piss on meya.

  323. “You guys completely miss the fact BP agreed to this escrow plan with Obama. The fund was a smart idea for BP, giving control and credit for it to Obama was an exceedingly bad idea.”

    Tell you what, the next time a truck I own is involved in an accident, I’ll tel the mayor tell me how much money I put into an escrow account. So instead of letting the legal process out, where I might win some and lose others, I lose all of them. The best part about this is that the mayor and his cronies get to decide the criteria for an aggrieved party AND what constitutes damages. I just do the paperwork and write the checks.

    I am reminded of the time I was on a Septa bus in Philly that got hit by a garbage truck, there were maybe seven of us on that bus, but the Inquirer reported over 200 personal injury lawsuits were settled. I missed the bus on that one (so to speak) as I didn’t get hurt, so I didn’t think to sue. Actually, no one got hurt, but they knew how to play the game.

    You know,kindof on that topic, If I knew then what I know now:

    16 years of Catholic School

    1 Commuter train derailment

    2 bus accidents

    1 hit by a US mail jeep

    Fell down the steps at the Vet

    Banged my head on the counter at the DMV picking up the paperwork the nice lady threw at me.

    1 “accidental” firing (heart attack inducing paperwork snafu)

    Shit man, I could be rich.

  324. This is what the woman in Detroit famously asserted was “Obama’s stash” when she was asked where government money came from.

    And Obama’s stash is going to negate this years elections in a great number of districts.

    The reason he did not support the Iranian people against the mullahs when the mullahs obviously stuffed the ballot boxes was that Barry respects a good old fashioned stolen election.

    Stolen elections are the cornerstone of the ‘Chicago way’.

  325. My corporate exec uncle tells me that BP initiated the escrow fund to prevent a catastrophic wave of stock dumping.
    If investors thought BP was going to be sued out of existence for reparations, they would sell out.
    Obama, like the true machiavellian pragmatist he is, just went with the PR coup, and GOP did its standard open mouth, insert foot.
    He doesn’t care what you and your cohort think, Jeff.
    You have been screaming that you are nevah going to vote for him for a year at least.

  326. “The reason he did not support the Iranian people against the mullahs when the mullahs obviously stuffed the ballot boxes was that Barry respects a good old fashioned stolen election.”

    no, the reason is that he CAN’T intervene because of Operation Ajax, Students Day, the american puppet/tyrant Shah, and the deaths of over 100000 Iraqi muslims in the EPIC Fail of democracy promotion in Iraq.

  327. It does not make me feel good to see you display your problems in such a public manner. I makes me sad, and feel pity for you, and contempt for those close to you that do not do anything to get you the help you need. nishit too, except she is even more of a lying cunt than you.

  328. BP initiated the escrow fund to prevent a catastrophic wave of stock dumping.

    No it was for to give the halps to the shrimperfolk. And also seaturtles.

  329. the deaths of over 100000 Iraqi muslims in the EPIC Fail of democracy promotion in Iraq.

    The Turks are cool too, noogie!

  330. you might think that, but you’d be wrong.

  331. “Americans are scared of their own shadows.” Not this one.

    A careful observation of how this “fund” is administered might rival the work that Dorothy Rabinowitz did on the “Oil for Food” debacle.

  332. A careful observation, LtC John? This will be as transparent as a barrel of oil.

  333. Turkey is a good example of my MENA/democracy thesis.
    More democracy means more Islam, not more more secularism.
    Turkey is moving from a Kemalist dictator/mil-junta to a representative islamic republic like Iran was post revolution.
    Iraq is an islamic state with shariah in the constitution, and religious political parties.
    if the citizens get to vote, they will vote for Islam.
    they liek it.
    ;)

  334. JD, but Kate is probably mentally ill, so you cannot really hold that in the same disregard as being deliberately obtuse, offensive, evasive, etc. I don’t remember meya claiming he/she/it was going to evolve into some sort of sci-fi creature/creation…

  335. Anyone have a beaker of sperm? I’m parched.

  336. 336 – but As Dorothy showed, persistance can pay off – the truth can eventually be found. Remember all the whining about “1 million dead Iraqi kids, end the unjust sanctions now!” I once stayed in the wreckage of one of the palaces Saddam built with “Oil for Food” money. How is that ole meme now?

  337. Probably? Probably?! That is like saying the Cubs are probably the worst organization in baseball, or Obambi is probably an dirty little socialist empty suit.

  338. JD – it could be an act, but the persistence of it does lead me to think it is illness. That is why I stopped talking back or getting peeved by anything she writes – just makes me sad.

  339. Agreed. Were it not so aggressively dishonest, and were I a stronger person, I would follow your lead.

  340. Lost My Cookies. Glad you are so concerned that BP gets to go the Exxon-Mobile route of 20+ years of litigation as opposed to the escrow fund in place first to help pay those claims.

    BP was going to do this anyway, it was an idea floated by some Republicans (granted RINOs), and in the end BP voluntarily agreed to it with Obama. How Sontagish of you all to make sure BP does not get railroaded. Tony thanks you.

    I am not going to cry for some corporation that fucked up (repeatedly). I am more concerned that the Jones Act is not being argued, that the capping of the well is out of the news cycle, that clean up efforts are not being streamlined and expedited due to the emergency. I am pissed off that the GOP handed a coup to the Dems over an issue that really is a side show from the disaster going on.

  341. LTC John, do you think we “largely won” in Iraq?
    Because SDB said that.
    Do you know what else has happened since the rig exploded and 11 americans died?
    112 coalition soljahs died in Iraq.
    72 were americans.

  342. they will vote for Islam.

    For the democracy and unfettered, free speech, plus as an added bonus, that old progg chestnut, the social welfare brought about by denying spiritual culpability for the genocide of a million plus souls.

    You’re a trip.

  343. Joe – Good to know you think Barcky should be able to craft something that is outside of the legal system. What other ways would you allow him to work outside of the Constitution? Fuck you and your Sontag bullshit, and the idea that Republicans were the source of this. If you cannot understand the difference between BP setting up their own fund, and Barcky taking over said fund … welll, the rest is the same crap you posted earlier.

  344. JD, don’t get so upset, Joe is providing useful illustration of Jeff’s points.

  345. If you haven’t caught it yet, here’s a lovely on-topic 6min audio rant from Mark Levin, taking Barton’s side against the ‘populist’ conservatives (aka O’Reilly). He’s big on the Rule of Law, understandably. Tyranny, not so much.

  346. 112 coalition soljahs died in Iraq.

    We don’t have soljahs, you illiterate cunt. Fuck off, for the umpteen thousandth time.

  347. Indications are that this is not “instead of the legal process.”

    OK, early morning. Judicial Process, Litigation? Whatever. I’m sure BP was going to set up an escrow account like this anyway to cover settlements. But let’s face it, some guy three levels deep in the supply chain for fresh pelican steak would have a harder time getting cash for his wife’s methadone if he signed up with Hammer, Hammer and Finkelberg than if all he has to do is fill out an online app at BP.oilspill.needmoney.gov .

    So now, is the government going to require a 20 billion in escrow if you want to do some offshore drilling? You know, for the companies own protection? Wouldn’t want to see anything happen to your US assets if something should, you know, happen to one of your wells.

  348. LMC, there will be no more off shore drilling in the US. That is a primary goal of this whole procedure.

  349. A bunch of link-spamming is not really an argument, Joe. But then again, the rest of the drivel you posted was not either.

  350. Joe – Good to know you think Barcky should be able to craft something that is outside of the legal system.

    Ah, but BP crafted it, JD. They even hired Calamity Jamie to craft it for them. Not only were they not raped, but they were pulling their little panties down before they even got in the backseat with Baracky. Then they sucked him off, swallowed, smiled and told him how dreamy he is. BP is dirty little whores who deserve the social diseases that are now festering in the oft-traveled holes in its crotchal area. Sure, Baracky was going to rape them, but he didn’t have to because they’re so damned easy.

  351. Hornbeck says the moratorium could cost Louisiana thousands of jobs and millions of dollars in lost wages. Government lawyers say the company is making “alarmist and speculative” allegations about the potential economic impact of the move.*

    If America were more of a joke we’d have to change the name to California.

  352. Pablo – That made me laugh. Sadly, that is not too far removed from their position.

  353. BP initiated the escrow fund to prevent a catastrophic wave of stock dumping.
    If investors thought BP was going to be sued out of existence for reparations, they would sell out.

    How could an escrow fund ever prevent the liabilities from future lawsuits exceeding BP’s ability to pay (ie. convince BP investors that BP was not going to be sued out of existence?)

    Only if the escrow fund somehow shielded BP or acted to limit their future, and as yet undetermined, and still growing liabilities.

    So that’s why they gave the fund to Obama. Kate just confirmed it plain as day. It was protection money.

    Shakedown indeed.

  354. We don’t have soljahs

    noogie’s Nintendo prolly does, Pablo.

  355. Thomas D – What you just highlighted was what happens when mental midgets try to talk about things that they have no understanding of.

  356. But Mr. D it’s the rapacious state attorney generals, particularly that of Jindal’s corrupt cousin-fucking victim mentality state, what are the biggest litigation whores in the mix.

  357. *attorneys general* I mean jeez

  358. hf, have they filed suit, or threatened to do so? Link please.

  359. They would have to get in line behind Brent Coon, Mark Lanier, et al.

  360. Has a law been enacted that eliminates, ex post facto at that, the $75 million liability cap?

  361. Pablo – Funny thing that that law the Dems passed in the 1990’s is just ignored. And they did not even have the courage of their convictions to change it ex post facto.

  362. BP was going to do this anyway,

    Well, Great minds…

    it was an idea floated by some Republicans (granted RINOs), and in the end BP voluntarily agreed to it with Obama. How Sontagish of you all to make sure BP does not get railroaded. Tony thanks you.

    You forgot the scare quotes around “voluntarily”. I don’t care if BP gets fucked out of existence by Dewey, Cheatem and Howe, or even if the Justice Dept goes all Teamsters on their ass and puts the entire population of the UK in stir. Don’t care. REALLY don’t care if it was a bunch of wait for it… Republican Congressmen (da da ta da!) who came up with the plan. It’s a shitty idea, it is a shakedown and it is a slush fund. AND it’s a bad precedent. So I’m not weeping for BP, I’m ranting for every other company out there.

    I am not going to cry for some corporation that fucked up (repeatedly). I am more concerned that the Jones Act is not being argued, that the capping of the well is out of the news cycle, that clean up efforts are not being streamlined and expedited due to the emergency. I am pissed off that the GOP handed a coup to the Dems over an issue that really is a side show from the disaster going on.

    Well, yeah, would have been less of a coup if the GOP had said, hey, you know what? This is a shakedown, this is a slush fund, and if I had spent millions getting this administration elected, I would have expected better treatment. Maybe the apology to the CEO was just our guy making a point.

  363. the attorney general of Louisiana advocated for and got a law for so he can hire attorneys on contingency… he said he figured damages for Lousisiana would be in the 100 billion dollar range.

    Caldwell has estimated his office will need $65 million and the ability to hire lawyers on contingency to bring home a multibillion dollar settlement for the state.*

    I can’t find where I read about the 100 billion number.

  364. *Louisiana*

  365. Pablo – Funny thing that that law the Dems passed in the 1990’s is just ignored. And they did not even have the courage of their convictions to change it ex post facto.

    Of course, this hasn’t been to court where such things as that law are baked right into the cake. All this voluntary stuff aside, when it comes down to liability and things get non-voluntary, that pesky law will be a bulwark against the picking of BP’s bones. Interesting times are ahead.

  366. hf, any suits yet? The State of LA can try to line someone up on contingency, but they will be waaay too late to compete with the tort sharks I have to deal with in my civilian job. Plus, that is almost an admission (having to get outside help) that they are not up to their own job…

  367. We did not ask for your drivel, meya. Go play with your vuvuzela.

  368. I don’t think there are any suits yet… they’re “gearing up” … apparently the Caldwell person said when he asked for the contingency law that x number of states are able to hire lawyers on contingency already…

    but the takeaway is at the end of this we could see another tobacco type pay-off to trial lawyers

  369. Zat right, all ya’ll Americans? Had done with oil and oil products have ye? Or is John Podesta putting words in your mouths?

    Funny you should ask that, sdferr. Beware Podestas crafting messages.

  370. btw the legislature said ok for the contingency thing but *only for the oil spill*

  371. “Ex post facto” is a term of art that would not apply to the civil claims that BP faces.

    Right, because it would apply to the law that limits them, not the claims themselves. You know what would apply to the claims? The law that caps them. It being the law, and all.

  372. Pablo summed it up well at #356:

    The feds can change laws, ex post facto only applies to state action, not federal. Rather moot point anyway since BP agreed the cap did not apply to this spill:

    BP’s public comments that it will not seek protection under the cap, plus the uncertainty that the cap would apply in the BP case anyway, makes a retroactive change unnecessary, the administration said.

    BP btw agreed to not seek protection of the $75 million dollar liability cap the first week of the spill.

    But the act also says the amount companies may be responsible for in damages – things like lost days for fishermen or money to rehabilitate wetlands after the oil is removed – may be capped at $75 million, providing the company didn’t violate any regulations in the lead up to a spill. Damages in excess of $75 million would be paid for by the government with money from a tax on oil designed for just such a purpose.

    Seriously, are you guys arguing the feds should pick up the claims of the shrimpers and fishermen in the gulf?

  373. Some of those fellas, fellas male and female, fellas like John Podesta, though like not simply as to ideological pieties, but as to their tyrannical ambitions, will save themselves by turning away from their current pursuits and getting the hell out of Dodge. Most, likely won’t, but will have fully earned the beatings that are coming due them. No tears will be shed on their behalf.

  374. Pingback: How the Leftistness was won

  375. the money the government got from the tax for in case of an oil spill should definitely be spent… that’s what an honorable country would do anyway.

  376. Let me explain again. I do not have heartburn about the fund. I think BP setting up a fund is actually a good idea. What is stupid is BP not setting up a way of capping its liability as part of a fund, not maintaining control of it, and making it seem like it was Obama’s idea (when it fact it was something BP was going to do).

    Of the list of Obama fuck ups, this would have been much father down my list. The GOP should be arguing lifting the Jones Act and how Obama is not doing it to cater to unions (and letting more turtles and dolphins die), Obama is playing golf while the gulf suffers, Obama is devestating the region economically by blocking all oil work in the gulf, Obama is blocking state government from acting and mitigating the harm, Obama is getting in the way of relief efforts by not curtailing agencies under his control, etc., etc. Apologizing to BP and arguing it is not getting due process would be pretty far down my list.

    BP is a dirty slut. And I was a BP stock holder.

  377. Seriously, are you guys arguing the feds should pick up the claims of the shrimpers and fishermen in the gulf?

    No, I’m arguing that we have idiots writing our laws who then want to pretend they didn’t do what they did. And I’m arguing that should BP decide they’re not so amenable to cooperation, they’ll have that law to shield them.

  378. You are right. Better we use tax money to pay the claims. What you miss about the law is the cap does not apply if BP violated any regulations before the spill. And guess what, BP said the first week it was not going to rely on the cap and not use it.

    So if BP states week one it is not going to rely on the liability, why the fuck are you all so hot for arguing it should apply now? Could it be BP knew then that it fucked up and figured this was a battle not worth fighting?

    Did you not dump your BP stock yet?

  379. What is stupid is BP not setting up a way of capping its liability as part of a fund

    Are you serious? There is no way on this planet BP could have made an above board deal to cap liabilities at this stage of the game.

    Imaging you just drunkenly plowed your car into your neighbors living room. The fire department hasn’t even arrived yet, the gas main is open and leaking, and you try to offer your neighbor a check ‘to cover the whole thing.’

    The only way you succeed in that endeavor is by doing it the John Gotti (or Chicago) way.

  380. And guess what, BP said the first week it was not going to rely on the cap and not use it.

    And next week, they could change their mind, and they’d be well within the law if they did. Baracky said a lot of stuff too. I hope you’re not counting on it.

  381. BP didn’t really violate any regulations our inept little country felt like enforcing…

    And the liability limits should apply so companies other than ginormous BP ones will invest in oil drillings in the United States of Gang Rape I think.

    I bought a little BP last week.

  382. Joe has this argue like a petulant leftist down pat. Bravo.

  383. I am a conservative. If BP wanted to exert its rights in the courts, I would have said great. If BP told Obama to get fucked, it had the right to do that. If Obama then engaged in some illegal acts to punish BP for that position, I would be arguing against them and for impeachment.

    But if BP agrees to lifting the cap and then agrees eight weeks later to a $20 billion fund, well BP agreed to it. Why would I feel the need to save BP from itself? I voted as any rational shareholder did, I shifted from BP to other stocks. If it looks like the company may survive this mess (given the way management is handling things that is a gamble), I might buy some BP stock on the way up.

    There are so many better arguments to attack Obama on. And yes, if the GOP can’t argue clearly and competently it is better off not saying anything.

  384. So if BP states week one it is not going to rely on the liability, why the fuck are you all so hot for arguing it should apply now?

    It will (notice I say will and not should, though either one works) apply in litigation. I blame John Adams.

  385. I would slap BP and Obama in the face with my bird cock, but I am too busy trying to get this fucking oil off me.

    Although my cousin agreed to fly up to JD’s house and shit on his car windsheild.

  386. Joe, where is the evidence that you would recognize competent argument? I ask only because such evidence is sorely lacking in this thread.

  387. JD, maybe BP management was hiking the Appalachian Trail. I do not feel the need to defend BP over this.

  388. There are so many better arguments to attack Obama on. And yes, if the GOP can’t argue clearly and competently it is better off not saying anything.

    Heh.

  389. What is your competent argument, that we should respect the $75 million liability cap. That anyone with claims of damages related to the spill should file litigation and when that cap is reached, they should then hope that the government bails them out from the tax on oil. That BP should be able to keep that extra money, because there is no evidence it did anything wrong yet, but after a few years of litigation we can figure it out.

    There are smart and stupid arguments for attacking Obama for his incompetence. The argument you guys are promoting is stupid. Now I get Jeff’s original point, the GOP should have seen Barton’s argument as an opportunity to speak honestly to the American public about the long term risks of villifying BP. I agree that Boehner and others should have handled the Barton issue far better than they did. The flailing around is giving Obama a pass on his major fuck ups.

    But you lead with your strongest arguments, the BP escrow fund and the liability cap are not the GOP’s strongest arguments right now.

  390. Who is “defending” BP? Or, are you trying to make Jeff’s point for him?

    What is the point of limiting liability for civil claims if a liability limit for civil claims can just be ignored if said limit is insufficient?

  391. There you go proving my point with your first sentence again Joe. What’s up with that?

  392. It’s almost like Jeff can’t be facetious enough sometimes.

  393. You are right. Better we use tax money to pay the claims.

    I’m pretty sure “that company is rich enough that the law shouldn’t apply” is NOT a conservative argument.

  394. Does one need a competent argument to follow the law?

  395. You might even ask JD, does one need to be smart in order to call other people stupid? Or is there something about the ‘calling’ itself which tends to upend even so benign a supposition?

  396. Jeff, BP gave up on the cap week one. Even before its meeting with Baracky and Team Obama.

  397. Amen, sdferr. In the movie “The Hangover” (I think) someone says “you are too stupid too insult”.

  398. What is your competent argument, that we should respect the $75 million liability cap.

    Rule of Law. Perhaps you’ve heard of it.

  399. Partial transcript (i.e what I could type) of Rush Limbaugh right now:

    The reason Barton needs to be punished [for the “shakedown” apology] is that it goes against the fundamental tenements of Marxism–Alisnkyism: he who controls the language controls the argument; the only way left prospers is if they control the language […] controlling language for liberals is to perpetuate lies.

    Plenty of qualifications about not absolving BP of their responsiblity. –Ha, like that will work WHEN WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE LIBS TELL US WE KNOW

  400. The liability cap only applies if BP followed the regulations in place to a tee. BP said week one that the liability cap did not apply. Hmmmm, what does that tell you?

    If some criminal waives Miranda and then spills his guts to the cops, most of us conservatives do not say the confession should be thrown out because he was stupid and did not assert his rights. That is the liberal argument. But when BP waives the liability cap voluntarily week one is that proof that there is no rule of law? Or is that proof that BP is fucked up (either BP knew it fucked up the drilling and the cap did not apply, or its management does not know how to do legal damage control, or both).

  401. We wouldn’t want them to get the message that it is not ok to cause this sort of “natural disaster.”

    Of course it isn’t. Congress decided and the President agreed that it should will you $75 million if you do this sort of thing. Aside from the per barrel fine that’s going right into the black hole where we’d otherwise dump more Chinese money. With that and the oversight (and lets please ignore the mountain of Uncle Sam’s waivers and safety awards, because they’re just not convenient) over virtually every detail of the operation, how could anyone ever get the idea that spilling many millions of gallons of your product into the Gulf of Mexico is a good idea?

  402. You all seem rather eager to save BP from itself. Meanwhile Tony is sailing and getting his life back. I am pretty sure his boat is not the Gulf of Mexico.

  403. “There are so many better arguments to attack Obama on. And yes, if the GOP can’t argue clearly and competently it is better off not saying anything.”

    Either way, state your argument perfectly, each utterance standing clear and uncorruptable even absent context, giving no opportunity to your foes to twist your words for their benefit, or remain quiet.

    That’s just good sense.

  404. The liability cap only applies if BP followed the regulations in place to a tee. BP said week one that the liability cap did not apply. Hmmmm, what does that tell you?

    It tells me you’re jumping to conclusions and that you don’t really care about following the law.

  405. *Gasp* Next thing we’d know Pablo, downtown Atlanta will be flooded with Coke and thousands of people washed away!

  406. I see that spewing out more leftist drivel is viewed by some as an “argument”.

  407. I heard Hayward was out hiking the Appalachian trail too. Evil fucker. At least he didn’t lead the crowd at a baseball game singing Take Me Out to the Ballgame, or go golfing, or have multiple concerts, or anything. Evil Hayward. Evil.

  408. Isn’t it conservative leftist drivel though JD? At least I’d thought that was the deal.

  409. The act sates that company that owns the oil in any spill must pay for all clean-up costs, as BP (BP), the owner of the Gulf oil well that exploded last month, is currently doing.

    But the act also says the amount companies may be responsible for in damages – things like lost days for fishermen or money to rehabilitate wetlands after the oil is removed – may be capped at $75 million, providing the company didn’t violate any regulations in the lead up to a spill. Damages in excess of $75 million would be paid for by the government with money from a tax on oil designed for just such a purpose.

    The cap has received much attention in recent weeks, and there have been several bills introduced to raise or eliminate it. There have also been proposals to raise the tax on oil so the government’s fund, which currently stands at about $1.5 billion, could pay out up to $10 billion.

    BP has repeatedly said it will not seek protection under this cap or money from the government fund. It has even provided written statements to that effect, said Perrelli.

    Why do you feel compelled to save BP from itself? If BP jumps off a bridge, rule of law that suicide is illegal is not going to save it.

  410. You all seem rather eager to save BP from itself.

    BP is bending itself bareassed over the edge of a cliff. Baracky has a boner and a smile and a bungee cord around his ankles. I’m mortified, but I’m still gonna watch.

    Tony is headed for a permanent vacation. Cocktails with Liz Birnbaum will be on the agenda, I think.

  411. Why do you insist on discarding the rule of law, Joe?

  412. Joe, if you can’t tell the difference between “saving BP” and “telling King Obama to fuck himself silly with a fucking fuckstick until he’s fucking disabused himself of the fucking notion he’s a fucking dictator”, then you haven’t been paying attention.

  413. Why do you feel compelled to save BP from itself? If BP jumps off a bridge, rule of law that suicide is illegal is not going to save it.

    And that’s fine. If they’re pushed, that’s a whole ‘nother kettle of fish.

    Rule of law, or not, Joe? Do some circumstances merit that the government disregard the law, or not?

  414. Sorting (one of these things is not like the others) is hard JD, especially when we’re getting our norepinephren on.

  415. *Gasp* Next thing we’d know Pablo, downtown Atlanta will be flooded with Coke and thousands of people washed away!

    *flashbacks and shudders*

    Sometimes, you can still smell it…

  416. If Barack Obama threated BP, then BP has the right to defend itself. Let BP make that argument if it is the case. But Presidents have negotiated deals with parties, outside of litigation and statutes, since the founding of the Republic. I did not like it when George Bush did it with the Tarp funds either (and we know they really threatened the banks with suggesting they would go public that they were not “liquid” so they would face runs if they did not play along). To Levin’s credit (and Michelle and Jeff’s too) they criticized that at the time.

    But if BP agrees to some private meeting, does not disclose what was said, and then gives up everthing–given it was in bed with the Obama administration on all its fucked up policy positions from before the election…maybe we should not be weeping for BP getting fucked over.

    Bitch Petroleum.

  417. If BP jumps off a bridge, rule of law that suicide is illegal is not going to save it.

    This argument seems familiar. Maybe back from the BUSH is WIRETAPPING!!! days, or the Plamegate days. Something to the effect that if somebody (Joe, for the sake of argument) thinks that someone else has admitted to wrongdoing, well, that person might as well just be locked up without the benefit of a court date, among other things.

    Not sound thinking, but maybe I’m not understanding his point.

  418. “Joe, if you can’t tell the difference between “saving BP” and “telling King Obama to fuck himself silly with a fucking fuckstick until he’s fucking disabused himself of the fucking notion he’s a fucking dictator”, then you haven’t been paying attention.”

    Joe sees a tree, rumors of a forest not withstanding.

  419. But if BP agrees to some private meeting, does not disclose what was said, and then gives up everthing–given it was in bed with the Obama administration on all its fucked up policy positions from before the election…maybe we should not be weeping for BP getting fucked over.

    Ya think? I thought I was fairly clear.

  420. Joe, if you can’t tell the difference between “saving BP” and “telling King Obama to fuck himself silly with a fucking fuckstick until he’s fucking disabused himself of the fucking notion he’s a fucking dictator”, then you haven’t been paying attention.

    Attacking King Obama’s reign of incompetency is fine. I welcome that. Jones Act interference (Obama lets dolphins die to save union protectionist law), check! Obama cripples oil industry in region, an economic Katrina, check! Obama blocks state government from mitigating disaster, check! Obama plays golf while region is devestated, check! But if you are going to shoot the king, go with your best arguments first.

    Apologizing to BP–not so good. Barton was an idiot in the way he phrased it. Yes, it would have been better he said nothing than to say what he said. An incompetent play is an incompetent play, regardless of intent. While Boehner fucked up too, it basically gave Obama a week of Republican fumbling. Poorly played. Unforced error. Defending this is doubling down on stupid.

    That is my point.

  421. It is encouraging to see the goodhearted and genial attempts to help Joe out on this subject though, which I just thought I’d note in passing.

  422. Why do I get the sick feeling Obama is going to get reelected in 2012?

  423. Joe, rule of law, or not? Always? Sometimes? Where do you land on this?

  424. I don’t know why that would be Joe, do you? Can you articulate the feeling?

  425. “BP is bending itself bareassed over the edge of a cliff.”

    One minor quibble with your analogy. The people were talking about, BP’s corporate management, aren’t the ones bending over. What they’re doing is pimping out the shareholders whom they’re fiduciarily bound to represent. BP’s not a whore, it’s a sex slave. Although, is it “performs” maybe it can join the harem, along w/ Chrysler and GM.

    Fine young thayngs all.

  426. Well, well well.

    ‘White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week” that the administration “forced” BP to set up the fund and to intensify its efforts to contain the spill.’

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YzZmMjkxNDgwODgxMmE3NTE1ZTIwYjliNDg4MWEyNTQ=

  427. Pingback: More About The Barton Mess..aging | Liberty Pundits Blog

  428. If I ever saw someone who was on fire being pissed on I would likely have to ruminate for a while on how that might well be the worst thing I have ever seen.

  429. That’s fucked up Liberty Pundits. How’s about ya’ll don’t do that shit no more?

  430. How about somebody delete #430 so we don’t have to horizontal-scroll all the comments?

  431. Ooh, color me shocked!

    Not that he wrote this, mind you. Rather that he framed it in such a way where it would appear people like me suggest there are only two choices: shut up or speak bluntly (and inartfully).

    But of course, once again his entire argument is premised on the “I apologize” line being removed from its context — and not on the more important premise that removing it from its context is dishonest, and completely changes the meaning.

    Sanctimony. Scolding. “Pragmatic.”

    And as I said somewhere above, as a kind of intellectual m.o., it requires a fucking time machine for it to ever be effective.

    Well, for our side, that is.

  432. Oy, Joe’s not gonna be all that happy to see that he and Pat are joined at the hip, is he? Let’s don’t tell him, then he won’t have to pretend he never heard about it anyhow.

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