I am going to spend my time before this historic vote to highlight some very important numbers, so every member of this chamber understands what they are voting to advance. Make no mistake, our actions today will not be without consequences. History and our future generations will judge us on this. Here are some numbers:· 0 – the number of provisions prohibiting the rationing of health care.
· 0 – the number of government-run entitlement programs that are financially sound over the long-term.
· 10.2 percent – our national unemployment rate, the highest in 26 years.
· 70 – total number of government programs authorized by the bill.
· 1,697 – times the Secretary of Health and Human Services is given authority to determine or define provisions in this bill.
· 2,074 – total pages in this bill.
· 2010 – the year Americans start paying higher taxes to pay for this bill
· 2014 – the year when this bill actually starts most of the major provisions of this bill
· $6.8 million – cost to taxpayers per word
· $8 billion – the total amount of new taxes on Americans who do not buy Washington-defined health care.
· $465 billion – Cuts in Medicare at a time when it faces a $38 trillion unfunded liability to finance more government spending.
· $494 billion – total amount of new taxes in this bill
· $2.5 trillion – the real cost of the bill
· $12 trillion – our total national debtThese numbers are facts. They are undisputable.
Don’t forget, too, that the Democrats’ nationalized medicine abomination also kills tort reform by the states.
Comment by TmjUtah on 11/21 @ 6:59 pm #
Hey!
Where’s the bang?
I was told there would be a bang.
All I hear is a whimper…
I aim to misbehave.
Comment by Snotty the lying serf on 11/21 @ 7:00 pm #
$12 trillion – our total national debt
$11 trillion of which was racked up under Republican presidents…
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 7:03 pm #
$11 trillion of which was racked up under Republican presidents…
Not true, but let’s assume it is. Are you saying Democrats deserve their $11T now?
Comment by Darleen on 11/21 @ 7:11 pm #
CONGRESS holds the power of the purse, snotrag
3 trillion increase since 2006 is all Democrat, asswipe.
you are practically creaming your pants over the death of America.
fuck off
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 7:11 pm #
Reparations.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 7:11 pm #
fack.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 7:12 pm #
WTF happened with Lieberman?
Comment by newrouter on 11/21 @ 7:18 pm #
“WTF happened with Lieberman?”
he caucused with his “friends”
Comment by Rose on 11/21 @ 7:19 pm #
They passed it. I am sick.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 7:19 pm #
Don’t despair, Carin, it’s just opening debate. Pablo was right…this is just political theater.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 7:20 pm #
They didn’t pass anything, Rose, they just voted to start debate. The real vote comes later.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 7:21 pm #
It’s just political theater, until they decide to go nuclear.
And then Lieberman looks like the tool that he is.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 7:22 pm #
That’s what they WANTED you to think Jefferson.
It’s snot true.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 7:27 pm #
Carin’s right. Shit like this doesn’t just happen. Lieberman wouldn’t be a U.S. senator if he wasn’t a fucking tool what would happily wipe his ass with our little country’s Constitution.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 7:32 pm #
I dun’t understand why he went along with it. The whole “what’s wrong with debating this” is a fool’s game.
We need to throw ‘em all out.
Comment by Hvy Mtl Hntr on 11/21 @ 7:39 pm #
It’s just political theater, until they decide to go nuclear.
I’m afraid that’s true; we are going to get this crapburger rammed down our throats- there will be SOME version of open-ended Deathcare passed.
Pass the ammunition.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 7:42 pm #
After all this little country’s done for Louisiana they send a corrupt bought and paid for sow-titted whore like Mary Landrieu to Congress to turn our little country into a squalid and oppressive dirty socialist shithole. Fuck Louisiana sideways I think. Never going back to that New Orleans cesspool that’s for sure.
Comment by newrouter on 11/21 @ 7:49 pm #
since when is debating stupidity the thing to do
Comment by newrouter on 11/21 @ 7:51 pm #
is that chrissy dodd presiding and what’s the “Viagra In Manchester Uk”
thing at pw
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 7:52 pm #
RIGHT, newrouter. And it’s not just debating. It’s opening the door.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 7:54 pm #
This song seems appropriate right now.
Where’s B Moe? I’ve been wanting him to hear this song.
Comment by Salt Lick on 11/21 @ 7:55 pm #
I aim to misbehave.
This is an appropriate attitude. In the event this powergrab becomes law, then we will need smart people to figure out specific programs of civil disobedience and sabatogue.
Comment by newrouter on 11/21 @ 7:57 pm #
so viagra in “manchester uk” is what snowcone’s hack
Comment by newrouter on 11/21 @ 7:59 pm #
bubblegum is icky i think
<!– bubbleGUM-start –
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 8:02 pm #
oh. I have a band for you Carin. brb.
Comment by Lefty on 11/21 @ 8:03 pm #
Don’t cooperate with this law.
They don’t have enough jails.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 11/21 @ 8:04 pm #
Sick to my stomach that my little country has almost jumped the shark. I’ll second happyfeet’s thoughts on Louisiana, too. And New Orleans. Move that shithole 25 miles up north on the river and your problems are behind you morons. Maybe not the crime, graft and bullshit, but definitely the whole city being under fucking sea water and you begging me to make it all better.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 8:06 pm #
Waiting, Happy. Did you listen to Scumbag Blues?
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 8:09 pm #
they are form that Australia place… they’re eclectic and mostly a live act sort of thing I think and also is this reggae I’m not sure exactly… I mean they’re Australian it’s very confusing
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 8:13 pm #
iTunes has some of their live stuff.
Listening to that. Eclectic, yes.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 8:17 pm #
That live album I may have to get.
Sounds interesting.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 11/21 @ 8:21 pm #
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STOKbDpDZbA
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 8:23 pm #
They can’t go nuclear. Or they won’t because they like their cushy jobs. Harry Reid may be a dead man walking, but many other senateweasels hope to remain senateweasels and this piece of shit is deeply unpopular. It especially pisses off old folks who have a nasty habit of showing up to vote. I’m guessing that women aren’t particularly happy with recent headlines either. If the Dems pass this they’re going to get slaughtered next year, and they know it. Some of them are safe and don’t care. Mostly, they’re not in the Senate.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 8:23 pm #
oh… *from* I mean… yes I listened about the scumbags … I bookmarked … I haven’t heard of them ones ok I’m kind of lying I listened to yours and couldn’t understand so then I went and listened to the for real recording here and even then I needed the lyrics it’s a very dark song and the guys reminds me kinda of that guy Val Kilmer played before he got remarkably obese
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 8:28 pm #
oh the *guy* I meant… just the singer one
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 11/21 @ 8:28 pm #
OT-B Moe, you in the house?
Comment by ghost707 on 11/21 @ 8:33 pm #
The left have figured out that they can indeed do anything they want.
Unfortunately, they are going to get this bill passed. There aren’t enough Americans remaining in this country who will resist.
I figured this would eventually happen. Every other nation is either some sort of socialist rule or outright dictatorship. Amnesty will be the last nail in the coffin.
Get used to high unemployment.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 8:34 pm #
Just curious, what accounts for Voinovich failing to vote? Was he there or absent?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 11/21 @ 8:36 pm #
Anyone else down to move to China? At least they are honest about their form of government. Also they would put a bullet in KSM’s head and bill his family for the cost.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 8:36 pm #
The sow-titted whore from Louisiana is now saying it’s Bobby Jindal what is pimping her whore ass all over town… if that’s true he can exorcise my motherfucking foot from his punk motherfucking piece of shit pimp ass you feel me?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 8:36 pm #
If the Dems pass this they’re going to get slaughtered next year, and they know it.
They’re going to get slaughtered next year anyway, Pablo, because they attempted to pass this POS. If they manage to pass it now, though, the Stalinized system will acquire a constituency, some of which would have been those doing the slaughtering. If that constituency is large enough (and given the numbers it will bring in, it will be), it will cement in place a permanent left-of-center political culture utterly dependent on plunder and political manipulation of the economy, exactly what the Left craves. That’s what makes me think it will pass at any cost.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 8:40 pm #
This nonsensical theory of government pushed by the Democrats doesn’t work, can’t work, won’t work. For fucks sake people, get a grip.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 8:40 pm #
“The right to live free from fear of illness and death….”
Dingy Harry said that this evening. These people are fucking insane.
The government is going to free you from your fear of illness and death. When do we start counting lives created and saved?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 8:41 pm #
The sow-titted whore from Louisiana is now saying it’s Bobby Jindal what is pimping her whore ass all over town… if that’s true he can exorcise my motherfucking foot from his punk motherfucking piece of shit pimp ass you feel me?
Ditto, though I trust Landrieu about as far as I can throw her.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 11/21 @ 8:42 pm #
I’m feeling ya, happyfeet. Jindal? I’m not sure what to think. The whole charismatic Catholic thing? Cool, as long as it doesn’t encroach one iota on his governing. But does it?
Comment by newrouter on 11/21 @ 8:43 pm #
mr. pink
i’m looking into costa rica
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 8:44 pm #
More Dingy Harry:
“A profound crisis facing every single citizen…”
Yes, but enough about your idiotic scheme. Let’s just kill it.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 8:44 pm #
Dingy Harry said that this evening. These people are fucking insane.
Not merely a pipe dream anymore, but an absolute fucking right. It is insanity, utter madness that will bankrupt our once-great republic. RIP, America.
Comment by newrouter on 11/21 @ 8:45 pm #
““The right to live free from fear of illness and death….””
not bad for an undertaker oh good manchester viagra
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 8:46 pm #
that’s ahistorical Mr. sdferr to say that our benighted little country won’t pitch itself headlong into a dirty socialist abyss… too many little countries have done the same and done it without a NPR – Newsweek – Jeffy Immelt whore media cheerleading every step and without a sow-titted whore from Lousisana proclaiming how proud of her cheap corrupt whore ass she is and exemplifying our entire political class as she does it
Comment by ghost707 on 11/21 @ 8:47 pm #
This nonsensical theory of government pushed by the Democrats doesn’t work, can’t work, won’t work. For fucks sake people, get a grip.
It works fine for Zimbabwe, Cuba, and Venezuela just fine. The thugs have the guns, money and power, and the serfs get poverty. I am afraid there are too many sheep in this country now, sdferr.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 8:48 pm #
I share your concern, Jeffersonian. I’m just saying I don’t see it happening. I hope I’m not overly optimistic. And should it pass, it’s going right to court, as it is utterly unconstitutional. I think our current SCOTUS will recognize that.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 8:50 pm #
yes… I don’t trust her either P and OI but you’d think she’d know the Jindal one would call her on it if it weren’t true as true… does she want< to be known as a lying sow-titted Louisiana whore? I guess we’ll find out.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 8:50 pm #
That isn’t the point though hf. It simply doesn’t work what they seem to want to do. It results in ruin for everyone and everything. In order to get that far circumstances would have to be vastly different than they are or even could be in the USA. Not happening.
Why did the mighty Soviet Union die? It died because it killed itself. Same thing has happened and is happening with every place this shit has been attempted. We won’t go there.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 8:51 pm #
An ostensible right that utterly defies nature. Where’s my right to time travel?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 8:54 pm #
An ostensible right that utterly defies nature. Where’s my right to time travel?
That’s coming up, Pablo, now that Congress has acted on this important issue.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 8:55 pm #
I hope not but they’re dirty whores and they don’t care. Not even the R ones. Meghan’s coward daddy and Princess Lindsey just think if they make a few petulant anti-socialist noises they’ll get their corrupt homo asses re-elected. Fags every last one of them or we wouldn’t be where we are.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 8:58 pm #
Can I get Congress to vote me thinner, better looking and with a hot wife? I gotta right!
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 8:59 pm #
Are you going to believe her because she says it, ‘feets? Here’s a more nuanced version:
If she wasn’t getting a lot of heat on this, she wouldn’t have been wobbly. I suspect bullshit.
Meanwhile, Dingy Harry’s right hand man on this is Chris Dodd, another dead man walking.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 9:02 pm #
Bobby J needs to make a statement expressly disowning the corrupt sow-titted whore and also that he was just kidding about that goofy exorcist nonsense and he needs to do it like now.
Comment by geoffb on 11/21 @ 9:06 pm #
Some very convoluted reasoning here.
Too much aid caused a problem that only more aid can fix. Can I use that in salary negotiations? Boss, last year you gave me too large of a raise. To fix it I need another big one. Workable, right.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 9:07 pm #
Mark my word: Should this pass and be signed into law, I will be seeking out any Republican who explicitly runs on the issue of relealing this atrocity, lock, stock and barrel. No equivocating, no hedging. I will send money to these candidates money to campaign against and defeat Democrats. Period.
Meanwhile, I will find who is running against that “centrist” bitch Claire McCaskill and I will donate money, work phones, walk precincts, cajole undecided friends, whatever to insure her defeat in 2012. I might do the same in Illinois, given that I work in that shithole of a state with its worthless political machine and corrupt asswipe Roland Burris.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 9:08 pm #
Did you all see the replays of the France/Ireland soccer match getting the Frogs into the World Cup? (This example for illustrative purposes only, I give fuck-all about the World Cup.)
What I’m wanting isn’t too much to ask, I think. Everyone save the referee knew that the winning (only) goal was of a clear handball by a French player. He knew it, his teammates knew it, his opponents knew it, the spectators knew it. It was a cheat, plain and simple. Time was, I believe, the guy would have called it on himself. Time should be again.
Call it on yourself when you know it’s a cheat. Expect everyone to call it on themselves. Demand the truth. Accept nothing less. It isn’t that hard.
Comment by ghost707 on 11/21 @ 9:09 pm #
That isn’t the point though hf. It simply doesn’t work what they seem to want to do. It results in ruin for everyone and everything.
The problem is, Americans have never experienced a total destruction of their way of life. The closest we came to that was in the ’30s- a distant and faded memory.
They don’t seem to know enough to be afraid. The left control too much of the country now.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 9:17 pm #
I’m sorry you feel so weak ghost707.
Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe?
Cuba. Cuba?
Venezuela. Venezuela?
None of those places has had the genius of the political order we’ve been privileged to know our entire lives. And likely never will. None of them has the direct experience we have had of liberty in the United States. That’s why they call this place exceptional. It is and always has been. That isn’t going away because a bunch of idiots attempt to pass stupid legislation. An attempt for which many of them will pay with their political careers. Buck up man.
Comment by Gulermo on 11/21 @ 9:17 pm #
#46 What do you want to know re: Costa Rica?
Comment by SDN on 11/21 @ 9:17 pm #
snowblower never did refute this chart showing that Bush and a Republican Congress were dropping the deficit. Once Copperheads took over they fixed that.
Facts are Kryptonite to snowblower.
Comment by ghost707 on 11/21 @ 9:19 pm #
A happyfeet classic so good it needs reposting:
..our little country is being refashioned as the preeminent dirty socialist third world cul de sac of fail.
Comment by SDN on 11/21 @ 9:19 pm #
And just remember: Democrat Congresscritter plus real Republican governor = real hope for change.
Comment by Carin on 11/21 @ 9:20 pm #
Happy, I wouldn’t pay the lyrics no mind. Josh Homme just kinda puts stuff that fits in the song. It’s not poetry. He’s more into the music than the lyrics.
He’s not trying express himself lyrically, is what I’m saying.
He is a Rock. God. Honest-to-goodness. He’s playing with Dave Grohl and John Paul Jones.
Comment by ghost707 on 11/21 @ 9:24 pm #
sdferr,
I know, I know. I am fucking pissed at the 53% of this country that is dumber than a bag of hammers.
They voted for an American Idol President and ignored the truth. Fuckwads of the lowest order. I spit and fart in their general direction.
Comment by geoffb on 11/21 @ 9:30 pm #
Re: Jindal.
This may be a variation on the LBJ “make the son of a bitch deny it” attack. Jindal is put in a damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t situation. $100 million in pork would be popular in the State. Supporting Landrieu on her vote would be unpopular with the Republican base. She by this is making him take a stand that is a loser politically for him either way. And it could help her family as they are all in the Dem political game in that State.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 9:31 pm #
You know though ghost707 that only perhaps 30% of the country are true believers in the socialist horseshit. The rest of the people that supported Obama have already begun to realize their error. And anyway, why did they vote for him? Not because they thought about his program, surely. They thought they were buying themselves some small bit of grace in the race struggle, they thought it would be cool to have a black President. They took leave of their senses for a time. They are getting a hard lesson now. But they are getting it.
Comment by Republican on Acid on 11/21 @ 9:35 pm #
I have been thinking this over for a few days. My thoughts are now how to avoid being ripped off by these assholes. I finally have something in common with a common “communist”.
Comment by Republican on Acid on 11/21 @ 9:38 pm #
sdferr, a number of people I knew bought the entire GW is Hitler meme and then thought that they needed to vote Democrat because the Republicans were screwing the little guy.
So to be honest, we must admit that MSM prop did its job. They just kept hammering away until people actually believed it.
There is possibly a silver lining to all of this, but I am not holding my breath.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 9:40 pm #
I ain’t seeing silver linings RoA, just not seeing apocalypse either.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 9:42 pm #
More like moldy stinky linings at the moment, really, one of which I take to be the rise of that Glenn Beck type guy. feh.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 9:49 pm #
Yeah. I think that’s right.
He’s shaking the bushes. And he’s part of the reason that people are beginning to understand the mistake we made. He’s effective, and that’s a good thing. People need to know it’s OK to push back.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 9:54 pm #
I don’t look on him as any help in the long term project though Pablo. Not that he’s an intentionally bad guy, just that he’s so fucking anti-rigorous. It’s great that he seems open to revealing his ignorance in public and in effect learning along with his audience (or maybe a quarter-step ahead of them). It’s just that he hasn’t the chops for the serious questions. Though who does, I don’t know.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 9:54 pm #
How the fuck is Debbie Stabenow a United States Senator?
Oh, Senator Franken.
We may be fucked.
Comment by Darleen on 11/21 @ 9:55 pm #
re: Jindal
Me thinks the Whore Landrieu is can add “lying” to her list of talents.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 9:56 pm #
Dearth of talent in the country, that’s for damned sure.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 10:03 pm #
I’ll look into the Vultures … they had a ton of YouTube hits and I don’t think I ever knew them.
I would love to be on Team sdferr but it’s so frightening how the little little president man and his dirty socialist Democrat whores are assaulting our little country when the economy is already suffering like diseased roadkill. They just keep hitting it and hitting it like UN peacekeepers at a nursery school god help us.
Comment by geoffb on 11/21 @ 10:04 pm #
Dearth of talent at least in those whose ambitions are in politics. Something in the whole system that picks who is to be the choice on the ballot weeds out talent at an alarming rate.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 10:07 pm #
I suspect he’d surprise you. The TV show isn’t a great gauge, the radio show is much better. The boy reads his ass off and he’s conversant with a lot of the good stuff, with emphasis on the founders. He’s ADD is mostly the problem with him, I think. Still, he’s very good at what he does, and he’s connecting.
He’s no Goldstein, though.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 10:07 pm #
I still think the Jindal one needs to confront the sow-titted whore head on.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:07 pm #
Probably my use of talent wasn’t at all right, actually. The problem is more likely to be fingered in a pitifully contentless educational system of now many decades running. The country still has plenty of talented people, smart people, whip-sharp people. It’s just that so very many of us are so poorly educated, we haven’t a clue what we’re dealing with.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:09 pm #
When I say serious people, I’m aiming at people like David Hume and Adam Smith though, and Beck can’t get there from here.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/21 @ 10:11 pm #
Jeff needs to come back cause Jeff is needed back.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:12 pm #
That would help alright.
Comment by geoffb on 11/21 @ 10:15 pm #
Beck will connect with a lot of people who then will be more amenable to the serious folks. Passion and curiosity can get you to look into things you would otherwise have ignored.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:16 pm #
When Beck gets people to reading Plato and Aristotle, I’ll tip my hat. Until then, he gets a feh.
Comment by geoffb on 11/21 @ 10:17 pm #
“He’s no Goldstein, though.”A unique talent we sorely miss.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 10:18 pm #
Again, I suspect you’d be surprised. But do a Man on the Street bit, and ask everyone you see about Hume and Smith. How do you suppose that would work out?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/21 @ 10:18 pm #
Sdferr #87, I don’t even think it’s a matter of education quality per se, but of content and the culture undergirding it. There are simply too many people that uncritically accept the destructive assumptions of the Left anymore.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:19 pm #
“But do a Man on the Street bit, and ask everyone you see about Hume and Smith. How do you suppose that would work out?”
I don’t follow you here Pablo? What would I be looking for in such an endeavor, is what I mean, I guess?
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 10:23 pm #
Dude, I just watched Debbie Stabenow sell the destruction of the American economy as a good thing. A US Senator, fat and stupid, elected by her idiot constituents. With all due respect, fuck Plato. We need Rambo, and we need him right now. We can wax philosophical later. Right now, we need as many people focused on the problem as we can get. Plato is not going to deliver them.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:26 pm #
“There are simply too many people that uncritically accept the destructive assumptions of the Left anymore.”
Man. You can say that again. More often than not, they haven’t any idea what it is they are accepting. Nor where it came from, nor where it intends to go, nor what’s self-contradictory about it, nor how it damages their polity and as a result, their very lives. But all that can be undone with study, I think. A huge amount of work, to be sure, but nothing insurmountable.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:27 pm #
No, Pablo, we need desperately to have Plato and Aristotle, we need to take them seriously. Why? Because the founders themselves did just that. And learned and learned from them. They have much to teach us.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 10:28 pm #
That one in a hundred or more that knows who you’re talking about. And also the rest of them who have no clue.
Comment by geoffb on 11/21 @ 10:31 pm #
Beck is a populizer. He brings something dull to wider attention in an entertaining way. Limbaugh is also.
In another realm, science, the same could be said of George Gamow, Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan and even to some extent Steven Hawking. Not everyone who read their works or watched Cosmos went on to be a serious scientist but their work did lead many into a life of exploring the realm of science and to appreciate what it did and could do. I’m sorry to see what it, science, has become in some areas with it’s infection by the political left.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 10:32 pm #
They have much to teach those of us who are interested in studying them. We’re a small set. Meanwhile, Oprah! Did you hear she’s quitting (in 2 years?) OMG.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:34 pm #
But look, things like the American Constitution don’t just pop in out of the clear blue sky. They get thought after tremendous amounts of work has been laid on. And this grand American Constitution isn’t the end all and be all of politics, despite its manifold virtues. The story of human kind hasn’t been written once and for all. There is still a great deal of ignorance we have to dispel (about ourselves) and having repaired some part of that ignorance, an ignorance shared by our founders by the way, our new found knowledge will have to be integrated with our ways of doing politics. That is what we need thinkers like Hume, Smith, Locke, Madison et al to do. Think clearly and help us make our ways better than they are.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:36 pm #
Kludges, patches and workarounds won’t get it forever.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:40 pm #
And an aside, neither do things like Leninism, Fascism, National Socialism pop in out of the clear blue sky. There are long paths to each of these hideous errors of human governance, often times beginning in matters that are fairly far afield from mundane political doings. And so where are we today? Not in very good shape, I think.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 10:42 pm #
Think mass marketing, sdferr. Think nutshell.
Depressing though it may be, it’s where we are.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:43 pm #
“That one in a hundred or more that knows who you’re talking about. And also the rest of them who have no clue.”
But that isn’t news to me. I’d hardly have to wander any farther off than my entire life talking about these things with men on the various building job sites I’ve lived my life on.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:43 pm #
“…mass marketing…”
Is at the heart of the problem. Or, it is the problem.
Comment by B Moe on 11/21 @ 10:46 pm #
B Moe got ambushed by a overly aggresive nap. He is back now.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 10:47 pm #
And yet, it’s the only thing that works these days. Numbers talk, and that’s how you get them.
Comment by B Moe on 11/21 @ 10:47 pm #
And I like the song.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 10:48 pm #
I like naps.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 10:54 pm #
I think I’ve caused us to talk at cross-purposes, Pablo. I’m interested in theoretical stuff that has little bearing on steering the ship of state at any given moment, but has everything to do with curing systemic problems, the which I think we find ourselves beset by today. The practical problems can’t be left out though, and that’s where you are aiming.
Me, I’m reminded of the metaphor Quine stole from somebody, which has our project as one of rebuilding the entire ship plank by plank all while it remains underway on the sea.
Comment by B Moe on 11/21 @ 10:58 pm #
She needs enough money to rebuild the ghettoes and correct that anomaly, and get her voting base back.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 11:00 pm #
Her family fishing camp was wiped out, B Moe. Dollars to doughnuts it’s already been rebuilt better than ever. Now, if only she’d retire to it permanently.
Comment by Pablo on 11/21 @ 11:03 pm #
Both matter, sdferr. I don’t begrudge anyone pursuing either path. That said, we really need pragmatism front and center right now, as the shit is being propelled at the fan.
While people might give you a blank stare at a mention of Smith or Hume, such ideas are bred into them. Of, by and for the people they understand. They also understand corruption, when someone deigns to point it out. A wake up call is a good thing.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 11:04 pm #
UGA VII didn’t get his proper send off today. Condolences on the both, B Moe.
Comment by B Moe on 11/21 @ 11:06 pm #
Oh shit. I slept through the game, did we fucking lose to Kentucky?
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 11:09 pm #
“Of, by and for the people they understand.”
Yes they do. It’s a short step to showing them that these ideas actually came from somewhere and that the somewhere is also important to understand. What’s more, if the showing is done with the enthusiasm Mr Beck brings to his shows, it might be that the people being educated will find that those sources are interesting in their own right and important in the lives of the people as well. It has long been too easy for us to dismiss these things with a wave of the hand. I think that’s a terrible injustice to everyone.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 11:11 pm #
“did we fucking lose to Kentucky?”
Yep, sorry. Dawgs were doing ok last I looked, then I checked the final. 34-27
Comment by B Moe on 11/21 @ 11:19 pm #
Oh well, Karma is still a bitch in Ann Arbor, so the day wasn’t a total loss.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 11:21 pm #
Which reminds me that I haven’t checked how WVU did this week, have you?
Comment by TmjUtah on 11/21 @ 11:23 pm #
If this passes, you won’t be able to resist.
We will all truly become felons awaiting a date with the judge.
I’m not paying for medical insurance that subsidizes state funded abortions.
I’m not paying a tax determined by a bureaucrat for not being insured sufficiently. I’m not paying a tax because I elect not to be insured.
And I’m fucking damned well done dealing with any fucking Fed unless they’ve got a warrant. IRS, Census, FHA… fuck them all.
You watch. Buying a snack with the wrong transfat rating is going to be illegal, going to make you a felon, going to take away your franchise.
Unless, of course, you hopped off the bus from Tijuana yesterday and can register fifteen friends…
Lamp posts are the answer.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/21 @ 11:24 pm #
Clearly what America needs is two parties. Let’s start with that.
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 11:25 pm #
WVU had a bye week, I see. Pitt next Fri.
Comment by SporkLift Driver on 11/21 @ 11:27 pm #
It’s called magic thinking, Pablo. All the cool kids are doing it now.
So this legislation will mean I can crash a motorcycle though a brick wall and not get hurt. COOL! Because I’ve always wanted to do that.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/21 @ 11:27 pm #
You and me both, TmjUtah.
I will not be in possession of a breathing license. I will not pay taxes for the priviledge.
I will, on the other hand, do my best to embarass them at every turn as they enforce this.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/21 @ 11:29 pm #
“The government is going to free you from your fear of illness and death.”
Meaning embrace being sick and dying?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 11/21 @ 11:33 pm #
Sorry to disagree with you guys but we might need alot of things today, but what we will get is a huge fire fueled by our dollar bills. It would be fueled with toilet paper but pretty soon toilet paper will be worth more.
Comment by SBP on 11/21 @ 11:34 pm #
AoSHQ is reporting that the PelosiPrisons have been stripped from the Senate version of the bill. It only allows them to bill you for it, or withhold any payment or refund you have coming from the government.
Comment by B Moe on 11/21 @ 11:36 pm #
Pitt was also off, so both have two weeks to prepare for the Backyard Brawl. Should be interesting.
Comment by B Moe on 11/21 @ 11:42 pm #
Which sign of the apocalypse is this?
Comment by sdferr on 11/21 @ 11:48 pm #
Did anybody witness Robert Byrd at the vote? Was he aware of his surroundings or has he taken the steamship to the land of total mental absence at this point?
Comment by ghost707 on 11/21 @ 11:53 pm #
What they will end up doing is deducting money directly from all paychecks, like Social Security.
You don’t have a choice, it will become Federal Law to have health insurance.
They won’t need jails.
It will be interesting to see how they go after cash only businesses.
Comment by Joe on 11/22 @ 1:15 am #
Elections have consequences.
BTW Who let the cat back in? When they cough a hair ball on the carpet, you leave it out for the night.
Comment by Danger on 11/22 @ 2:00 am #
“As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They’re not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”
What if i said that the soldier that fills Pablo’s pragmatic Rambo (is that an oxymoran;) and sdferr’s disciplined scholar requirement is available today.
And, no ol Danger hasn’t been inhaling too many CLP fumes, I’m talking about the Senator from the Great State of Oklahoma, the Honorable Tom Coburn (one of the few deserving of the full title).
What can an okie in a powerless party do? Click the link to get the skinny:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/07/coburn-plans-to-read-the-bill/
So if any of you are in line with Jeffersonian sentiments:
“I will be seeking out any Republican who explicitly runs on the issue of relealing this atrocity, lock, stock and barrel. No equivocating, no hedging. I will send money to these candidates money to campaign against and defeat Democrats. Period.”
Then send some love to the Good Senator. Tell him you are counting on him to follow through on forcing the bill to be read on the Senate floor. If Harry Reed is so proud of it then he should be happy to share all of it with the American people. And if he complains about derailing other Senate buisiness; too bad, he is the one that made it a priority.
Weapons Free, Fire at will
Comment by Danger on 11/22 @ 2:14 am #
“A happyfeet classic so good it needs reposting:
..our little country is being refashioned as the preeminent dirty socialist third world cul de sac of fail.”
JeffG should add a Happyfeet comments category to his greatest hits section (top left side below the recent comments section).
Comment by Mark A. Flacy on 11/22 @ 3:23 am #
Snowcone, you still haven’t offed yourself. Bad boy.
Comment by Danger on 11/22 @ 3:31 am #
This is the e-mail I just sent:
Senator Coburn,
I have followed your career since my assignment at Tinker AFB (2000-2004) and wanted you to know that I appreciate your effort at reigning in the out of control spending in Washington.
I read a report that you were considering forcing the health care bill currently under consideration to be read (in it’s entirety) on the Senate floor. I am pleading with you to follow though on that proposal. When the Democrats balk and claim that it will disrupt other important Senate business; tell them too bad, they were the ones that made a priority of pushing through a 2000 page bill filled with layers of hidden expenses, taxes and regulations.
Right now, I am sitting at my desk in an Operations Center in Baghdad and I confess that I am feeling rather helpless. I see a train wreck coming and I need your help to derail it. I don’t want to wait for days, weeks or months for medical care for one of my family members or even worse risk having that care turned down by a bureaucratic department with no accountability or appeal. That is the inevitable path this bill will take us down.
Thanks again for your service.
Comment by Danger on 11/22 @ 3:55 am #
“Don’t you and your family get government supplied health care now?”
Rather sad and ironic that someone who volunteers to go in harms way is referred to as selfish.
Try googling Veterans health care and then get back to me.
Comment by No one you know on 11/22 @ 5:10 am #
Hey, hats off to the Dems. They convinced enough people that there is such a thing as a moderate Democrat, that would be all those who voted for this moderate bill. They also exercised some party discipline and got every one of their caucus on board, in the senate. If this were a piece of conservative legislation and the numbers were reversed, there would be a dozen Republican senators lined up trying to kick conservatives in the teeth. Now the Dems can sell the American people on their moderate amnesty bill. That should be good for a laugh.
Pingback by Liberty Landing Blowing Rock Cabin Rental | Charcoal Smoker on 11/22 @ 6:13 am #
[...] anti-Liberty Democrats by the numbers [Darleen Click] [...]
Comment by Carin on 11/22 @ 6:40 am #
“Don’t you and your family get government supplied health care now?”
The stupid burns. Honest snowcow, I know this is a lefty meme, but don’t you ever think for one fucking second?
Comment by SDN on 11/22 @ 6:44 am #
#104: Exactly. At some point in any software system you look at the pile of kludges and workarounds and conclude it’s time to go back to the original requirements, slag down the current system, and start over, re-implementing the original requirements and avoiding the mistakes in the first version.
Time to hit the reset button.
Comment by Carin on 11/22 @ 6:59 am #
Regarding the discussion of Beck and serious thinkers.
Sure, the founding fathers read Aristotle and Plato, but we don’t need to rewrite the Constitution. We just need people who can understand what they wrote and intended.
For a while, enough common folk were able to “get” it. The problem is not that they haven’t been reading Aristotle and Plato, it’s that they haven’t been reading the Constitution. It’s that when they studied it, it was through the prism of the socialist-indoctrination education system.
I applaud Beck because he is intellectually curious. There are certainly plenty of top-shelf thinkers out there. They are simply inaccessible to the (mis)educated masses.
I mean, dang. I met a lady who said she never tried reading a Jane Austen book because she’d heard it was too hard. When people feel they cannot even open a book and attempt to read it? WTF. I mean it’s not as if I suggested “Gravity’s Rainbow.”
(runs)
Comment by Carin on 11/22 @ 7:13 am #
And dang. I missed B Moe. I wanted to talk to him about that song/group.
Did you see who was on base? John Paul Jones, that’s who. Dave Grohl on the drums.
Comment by Danger on 11/22 @ 7:20 am #
Carin,
I’d like to see Glenn Beck take better advantage of his platform and bridge the gap from the average person to top-shelf thinkers. Regular interviews of Dr Sowell and Victor Davis Hanson would be a good start.
Comment by geoffb on 11/22 @ 7:25 am #
It’s not just the kludges and other temp patches that have to be flushed. The Left is exposing flaws in the basic code that will have to be reworked.
That will be where we need those serious thinkers. For most of us, being familiar with the Federalist Papers and the concepts therein is good, much better than the pap our schools put out as “Civics”.
Comment by sdferr on 11/22 @ 7:44 am #
On reading … just as we can find ourselves with problems communicating here and now, in many cases with problems of interpretation and misinterpretation as Jeff has shown us, so we are sometimes confronted (and really, ought always to be confronted) with a problem of interpretation across the centuries as we pick up a two hundred year old document or a two thousand five hundred year old book.
How do we come to know the mind of such distant writers, writers whose worlds and understanding in those worlds are at such variance with ours? Can we know them, even? Can we hear them and not impose on them what is not theirs, but ours?
But how would we know what is ours (and an imposition) and not theirs to begin with? How are we to distinguish one from the other?
When for instance, to take my most frequently used example here, we freight into our thoughts of the thoughts of others concepts like “value” or “culture” where those other men we are attempting to understand had no such thoughts or concepts themselves? And we often do this, commit these sorts of errors in all good faith. We don’t intend to make a hash of it.
Yet, we’ve no idea that value and culture don’t belong. Why shouldn’t they belong, we’ve always used them: our politicians can hardly eke out a sentence in political speech without them. They’re perfectly good or perfectly useful concepts, we think. Except that they are not.
Comment by B Moe on 11/22 @ 8:02 am #
Politicians and governments are always going to mostly suck, I believe. The only solution is to avoid concentrations and accumulations of power.
The more I think about it, the more I like randomly selecting representatives, as opposed to elections.
Comment by sdferr on 11/22 @ 8:10 am #
B Moe, I really admire your last comment in the Climategate thread and wish I could steal it intact to apply to political thinking as well as formal scientific thinking. The problem of course, is the potential for confusion of the two, which nowadays can’t be escaped. Damnit.
Comment by Pablo on 11/22 @ 8:20 am #
I also like the idea of not sending them to Washington. With the technology we’ve got, they don’t need to be in the same room to debate, negotiate and legislate. Better that they be surrounded daily by their constituents than by lobbyists and, worse yet, each other.
Comment by B Moe on 11/22 @ 8:30 am #
Feel free to use anything I post however, sdferr. And I agree that Political Science doesn’t have to be an oxymoron.
Comment by Pablo on 11/22 @ 8:34 am #
I think it can be done, but it doesn’t come easily. It requires commitment, and no small amount of study. Most people won’t bother.
Comment by royf on 11/22 @ 8:41 am #
The stupid burns. Honest snowcow, I know this is a lefty meme, but don’t you ever think for one fucking second?
Rhetorical question I’m sure, the answer is obvious to anyone with a few living brain cells. LOL!
Comment by sdferr on 11/22 @ 8:42 am #
Thanks B Moe. To that end I’m gonna copy it and set it down here so people will see it, for starters:
Comment by B Moe on 11/22 @ 8:46 am #
How about some World Class Buffoonery to brighten up your morning.
The idea that Sarah Palin isn’t smart enough to be a part of that crowd is fucking hilarious.
Comment by sdferr on 11/22 @ 8:53 am #
Dodd’s last at the end of that set of clips B Moe: “This is the United States of America.”
I want to strangle men like him.
Comment by Pablo on 11/22 @ 9:16 am #
I’m not sure I share your idea of what brightens a morning, B Moe. This did it for me. It’s as if there’s a tide turning.
sdferr, take heart. Dodd is a dead man walking. That even Connecticut has had enough of his shit. There is hope.
And there is whistling past the graveyard:
If you don’t believe him, just ask Senator Lamont.
Comment by B Moe on 11/22 @ 9:25 am #
Humor. And yours was funnier.
Comment by Joe on 11/22 @ 9:25 am #
These SNL skits were actually funny last night:
Obama goes to China
And 2012, the DNC remix (not available yet, but very funny).
Comment by B Moe on 11/22 @ 9:27 am #
Somebody forgot to exhale.
Comment by Pablo on 11/22 @ 9:50 am #
Big Rock Candy Mountain, here we come!
Comment by JHo on 11/22 @ 9:54 am #
Late to this thread…
Darleen, I see that you’ve highlighted two items. I might have highlighted one:
1,697 – times the Secretary of Health and Human Services is given authority to determine or define provisions in this bill.
Given that this item redefines virtually all the others, can anyone tell me how this is possibly proper?
Comment by sdferr on 11/22 @ 10:05 am #
Take heart Pablo? Well, sure. But at the least in order to serve justice someone should have stepped forward to pelt Dodd with rotten vegetables at that moment.
…………………………………………………………
Flopping open my copy of Madison’s Notes of Debates in Federal Convention randomly (trust me), I find:
Comment by JHo on 11/22 @ 10:11 am #
Yep. Now compare that quality to the following:
1. The government school and its unfortunate product;
2. The higher academy and acceptable values;
3. The media and acceptable speech and intent;
4. The Courts and acceptable principles;
5. Nine-tenths of American ethics and pastime; i.e., interest in reform while this Rome burns;
6. The entitlement generation’s inability/refusal to produce;
7. Federal debt and debt trajectory under at least half of these.
I hope Beck can pull this off because even as they take up the question of regulating Internet speech, we need polarizing figures that operate on the national stage and scale. Anarchy — which is clearly in the offing — will not produce a intellectual 1776 v.2.0, although it will produce an America 2.0.
Comment by Yackums on 11/22 @ 10:23 am #
It’s come down to this: We can solve two problems – JeffG’s want of something to do and lack of inspiration, and the lack of top-flight conservative thinkers in Congress – with one step:
Goldstein for Congress ‘10! One small step for Colorado, one giant leap for America!
Comment by B Moe on 11/22 @ 10:29 am #
168. Comment by JHo on 11/22 @ 9:54 am
That was the one that caught my eye too, JHo.
1697 pigs in a poke? Seriously?
Comment by Carin on 11/22 @ 10:37 am #
Stabenow is so fucking stupid.
She was on Chris Wallace this morning.
Man is she dumb.
Comment by Carin on 11/22 @ 10:38 am #
She even repeated the stupid “If we do nothing …” line.
Pingback by Harry Reid is officially insane and dangerous to America [Darleen Click] on 11/22 @ 10:44 am #
[...] h/t Pablo [...]
Comment by JHo on 11/22 @ 11:09 am #
You know they are; they risked the effing bill on this little fundamental.
Which means this piece of garbage has nothing to do with health and everything to do with power.
Comment by sdferr on 11/22 @ 11:54 am #
Mass marketing as politics.
Comment by SBP on 11/22 @ 12:36 pm #
Hush, SFAG.
Pingback by Dear Senator. [JHoward] on 11/22 @ 12:50 pm #
[...] widely seen as a financial offer to throw your vote on healthcare — and notwithstanding your unusual logic about the economic plight of your constituents — should this measure pass the Senate and eventually be signed into law, I will probably [...]
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/22 @ 2:35 pm #
They should do this medicare part D style and just charge it all to the deficit.
One of the many true, deep and irreversible fuck-ups of the Bush II admin. Completely irresponsible.
Comment by JD on 11/22 @ 2:45 pm #
STFU you lying fucking fascist.
Comment by SDN on 11/22 @ 5:07 pm #
Hey, meya, since you’re smarter than snowblower (not a high bar, I admit), maybe you can look at the linked chart in #67 and explain how the deficits were shrinking under Bush until we let the Copperheads have the Congress.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/22 @ 5:35 pm #
See, if you let let the congressional GOP off the hook, you don’t have to notice they’re still around.
Who’s letting them off the hook? I was an unrelenting critic of Bush’s stupid entitlement. And let’s remember, shall we, that the Democrats weren’t exactly thumping the tub for fiscal responsibility here. There’s no overpriced boondoggle Bush ever wanted that wasn’t the cause for endless Democratic jerimiads that it wasn’t nearly big and bloated enough.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/22 @ 5:56 pm #
Some defict/debt observations:
The total debt rose by 1.9 trillion between 1992 and 2000 (making an earler assertion here patently false.)
The defict for 2009 alone will be roughly equal to the 8 years of deficits under Clinton.
2009 will be the largest one year rise in the debt. Ever.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/22 @ 9:44 pm #
Yes. It’s true anyway you care to look at the data.
The smallest increase in tax revenues in the last 20 years came between the tax increase of 1991 and the cut of 1993. The 2003 cuts ahve resulted in record setting revenue, both increases and actual dollars.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/23 @ 7:22 am #
Economic growth is a factor. Revenues, as a percentage of GDP tends to be be right around 17-8%, but it rises and falls to a combination of factors, including the tax rate itself. Following the 1991 tax increase, it was 15-odd%. After the 2003 cuts, it has been 19-20+%.
Comment by JD on 11/23 @ 7:48 am #
You are more patient than meya deserves, RTO.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/23 @ 5:14 pm #
It’s penance. I feel really crummy for assuming that I knew as much or more than Darleen and everyone else on the MAJ Hasan post a while back.