November 20, 2009
Obama doesn’t appoint stupid people … [Darleen Click]

… so it is time to look at the malice angle.

First we have Eric Holder doing a good imitation of a gasping fish out-of-water in his non-answers to Lindsey Graham.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R-S.C): Can you give me a case in United States history where a enemy combatant caught on a battlefield was tried in civilian court?

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: [5 second pause with deep breath] I don’t know. I’d have to look at that. I think that, you know, the determination I’ve made —

GRAHAM: We’re making history here, Mr. Attorney General. I’ll answer it for you. The answer is no.

HOLDER: Well, I think –

GRAHAM: The Ghailani case — he was indicted for the Cole bombing before 9/11. And I didn’t object to it going into federal court. But I’m telling you right now. We’re making history and we’re making bad history. And let me tell you why.

Then we have Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius trying to get ahead of the uproar over the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force jumping the gun before ObamaCare passes and deciding some an uptick in death from breast cancer is worth the cost-savings of doing less mammograms.

In an interview with NPR’s Mara Liasson, Sebelius said the House-passed health bill gave her, not the task force, the authority to decide what health insurance will and will not cover. That isn’t quite true. The statutory language says that if the task force recommends some service, health insurance has to cover it. The HHS secretary can decide to cover something that is not recommended (e.g., routine mammography for women ages 40 to 49), but she could not decide to take away coverage of something the task force recommended. (Senator Reid’s plan is similar.)

The much more important point is that the HHS secretary would have plenary power to decide what health insurance must cover. Not just preventive services, but all services. That is the essence of political health insurance and what distinguishes the system of private health insurance we have now from a system of political health insurance.

What the Left would have you believe is that any concern over the Task Force’s recommendations is just politics as other recommendations against certain screenings have been done before so nothing to see, move one. However, none of those recommendations have been poised to become law due to a provision of the Stimulus bill.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.” [...]

Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment?

The United States has the best survival from cancer rates in the world, due to earlier screening and aggressive treatments.

Why do Obamacrats want to see that change for the worse? It couldn’t be stupidity …

142 Comments  :::   Post a comment »

  1. Comment by LTC John on 11/20 @ 9:13 am #

    I dunno….I am not sure I can attribute malice when stupidity seems to be so omnipresent.

    Cabinet Secretaries that simply don’t know what their Departments are doing, can do or will do. The AG flummoxed and unpreared for the biggest hearing he has ever faced. Treasury sitting half vacant.

    Bah.

  2. Comment by McGehee on 11/20 @ 9:18 am #

    Obama doesn’t appoint stupid people

    ROFLMAO

  3. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:22 am #

    I’m with LTC John here. The State Dept and with it our foreign policy, so out of touch it condemns our allies and boosts our adversaries. These people are nothing short of stupid it looks to me.

  4. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 9:24 am #

    alphie and meya grade estupido, they are.

  5. Comment by Sticky B on 11/20 @ 9:24 am #

    If someone made a science fiction movie about a teleprompter that set out to ruin the lives of people it hated due to their status in society which might or might not be somewhat related to their skin color, no one would buy it. The premise would fall a bit too far outside the ability for most viewers to suspends their disbelief. And yet…….

  6. Comment by happyfeet on 11/20 @ 9:25 am #

    Malice.

  7. Comment by Joe on 11/20 @ 9:26 am #

    I am no fan of Little Lindsay Graham, but he gives a pretty decent asswhoppin to Eric Holder.

  8. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:26 am #

    We have a jihadi murderer go on a rampage on an Army base killing 13 and wounding 31 and the first thing out of the Army Chief of Staff’s mouth is to trumpet the virtues of diversity? But of course, Bush put that idiot in place, Obama’s just happy to keep him there.

  9. Comment by Mr. Pink on 11/20 @ 9:28 am #

    I’d have to go with happy on this one.

  10. Comment by happyfeet on 11/20 @ 9:28 am #

    I don’t see why the cocksuckery Lindsay Graham homo should get points for doing his fucking job.

  11. Comment by Joe on 11/20 @ 9:30 am #

    As for Team Obama and being penny wise and dollar foolish…well that is the obvious answer right there.

    They are so obessed with trying to pass health care reform that they are willing to gut Medicare, prove Sarah Palin right about those “death panels”, and basically ensure Democrats are despised forever if they are even 30% successful in this endeavor.

    It is not stupidity–at least not in IQ levels. These people are smart in that regard, it is hubris and a complete lack of common sense.

  12. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:31 am #

    It’s the spread of the *goldstar* for everyone culture hf. It has moved out of the kindergarten and into the Senate.

  13. Comment by B on 11/20 @ 9:32 am #

    I’m going with “delusional”, rather than stupid or malicious. Holder didn’t have an answer to the question because he genuinely doesn’t think that legal precedent is important. That’s not malicious, it’s crazy.

  14. Comment by B Moe on 11/20 @ 9:33 am #

    I dunno….I am not sure I can attribute malice when stupidity seems to be so omnipresent.

    Would you believe malicious levels of stupidity?

    /Maxwell Smart voice off

  15. Comment by happyfeet on 11/20 @ 9:34 am #

    That’s a good point sdferr. Here’s a scratch-n-sniff for your trapper keeper.

  16. Comment by EJ D on 11/20 @ 9:35 am #

    Bleh, it’s neither stupidity nor malice. You see, your world view is all f’d up. You’re under the false impression that the government exists to serve the people. If you’d just get your brain in order and accept that it’s the people who exist to service the government you’d understand where they’re coming from and it would all make sense to your simple minds.

    Sick people are a drain on government resources, and therefore a problem. And as their idol in government once said, many years ago, no more man, no more problem.

  17. Comment by BJTexs on 11/20 @ 9:36 am #

    Joe: As well as an obsessive fixation on ends accompanied by a with a wave of the hand to means.

  18. Comment by Carin on 11/20 @ 9:38 am #

    Stefanie Spielman dies of breast Cancer at 42.

    Stefanie Spielman was 30 years old and three months pregnant in 1998 when she detected a lump in her breast. She later miscarried and discovered she had cancer. She survived four bouts with cancer before a fifth recurrence in March.

    But, my all means, women shouldn’t be doing self exams.

    Just think how much money we could have saved if Stefanie had never detected that lump?

  19. Comment by Kevin B on 11/20 @ 9:41 am #

    “That isn’t quite true.”

    Is that journalese for “You stupid lying bitch!”?

  20. Comment by BJTexs on 11/20 @ 9:43 am #

    Kevin B: MYSOGYNIST!

  21. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:49 am #

    But why set stupidity and malice in opposition to one another? They seem perfectly compatible to all appearance and hence qualified to occupy one and the same person, thus easily operating in concert in their every act. So the Obami can be both at once!

  22. Comment by BJTexs on 11/20 @ 9:56 am #

    Some of the most malicious people I know are stupid … and visa-versa.

  23. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 9:57 am #

    Stupidly malicious, or maliciously stupid. Either way, it is Teh SuxXor.

  24. Comment by Roland THTG on 11/20 @ 10:02 am #

    I have known maliciously stupid people. They are out there……running our country.
    Obambi is a maliciously stupid malignant narcissist.

  25. Comment by Roland THTG on 11/20 @ 10:04 am #

    Generally recognized to be a bad combination.

  26. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:15 am #

    I’m glad to see we could solve that false conundrum then.

    So of the two decisions, on the one hand to try KSM et al in Art3 Court in NYC and on the other, to attempt to take over the Health Care system of the United States, which is the worse? Which deserves the better of our attention?

  27. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 10:20 am #

    Healthcare is worse. Trying KSM Hairshirt in NY is bad, don’t get me wrong, but BarckyCare is going to be giving people the throbbing shaft for generations to come. Arnold likes that idea. Me, not so much.

  28. Comment by agile_dog on 11/20 @ 10:28 am #

    which is the worse? Which deserves the better of our attention?

    Are those rhetorical questions? Because, if not, I think I’ll vote for the health care take-over. While the KSM issue touches on core issues, such as whether he is a criminal or a prisoner of war/war crimes perp, the health care system destruction will have longer term effects on a greater number of people for a longer time.

  29. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:29 am #

    I have to admit, I tend to think the contrary JD, but that’s because I don’t think it possible that the health care bills can pass and even if somehow they were to pass, the people would stamp them down near instantly and the damage to the statist sort of thinking would echo for decades. Whereas the trials I think, can be rammed through without enough opposition and the consequent damage to the system of justice and warfighting will be long lasting and very serious. Efficacy is the turn, I guess.

  30. Comment by agile_dog on 11/20 @ 10:42 am #

    the people would stamp them down near instantly

    Is there any case of this happening at the federal level? Reid is gonna get this passed this Saturday night – until the next election, I just don’t see our elected “leaders” being in-tune with the wishes of the public enough to reverse this.
    I’m not saying that “and the consequent damage to the system of justice and warfighting will be long lasting and very serious” isn’t correct, I just happen to believe the negative effects of ObamaCare will be bigger/worse.

  31. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:43 am #

    “Reid is gonna get this passed this Saturday…”

    Check your sources. That isn’t true.

  32. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 10:46 am #

    the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective.

    A sign above the entrance to the colony reads, EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY. In his head, the Wart can hear repetitive broadcasts that alternate between giving orders and directions and playing repetitive, soothing gibberish.

    I wonder if this is still read in schools or if, as my seventh grade teacher did, read aloud to an entire class for discussion. Doctors, welcome to the ant colony. Patients, you are not even the ants but you are the product they produce in assembly line fashion.

  33. Comment by Joe on 11/20 @ 10:48 am #

    IDA, Padilla’s case was different because he is a US Citizen. Moussaui’s case is different because he was a resident and was captured in the US.

  34. Comment by Joe on 11/20 @ 10:49 am #

    Public opinion is now blaming the Dems for the economic crisis

    It is Obama’s recession depression now.

  35. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 10:55 am #

    IDA is aggressively pig-ignert.

  36. Comment by BJTexs on 11/20 @ 10:55 am #

    Right, Joe, and IDA conveniently fails to consider that super genius Eric Holder had no idea how to answer the enemy combatant question from hicktard dumass Lindsay Graham.

    Drive by link crappers like IDA write their own comedy, albeit unintentionally. Ya gots to love the transcendent irony of the “all your wingnutz politicians are TEH STOOPID” meme.

  37. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 11:05 am #

    SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R-S.C): Can you give me a case in United States history where a enemy combatant caught on a battlefield was tried in civilian court?

    an American citizen named Jose Padilla had been detained at O’Hare Airport and charged with taking part in an Al Qaeda plot to detonate a radioactive “dirty bomb” within the United States.

    English, sometimes it has meaning.

  38. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 11:09 am #

    Well yes, geoffb, but there is another way to read the equivalence as well.

  39. Comment by Ima Dumb Ass (aka IDA) on 11/20 @ 11:14 am #

    The U.S. is a battlefield! The peace loving people of color that chose to defend themselves on 9/11 knew clearly that the U.S. was THE battlefield. Any supposed human caused tragedy initiator captured illegally by BusHitler was an enemy combatant detained illegally on a battlefield!!1!

  40. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 11:15 am #

    Now if the case of John Walker Lindh was brought up it would come closer, however he also is an American citizen and as such is subject to US law and trial.

  41. Comment by BJTexs on 11/20 @ 11:19 am #

    Not to mention the hilarity of IDA trying to make the case that Lindsay (giggle) Graham is (chortle) is helping run conservatives. (bah hahaha!)

  42. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 11:27 am #

    It must really chap IDA’s ass that a stoopid wingNazi poofter like Lindsey p3wnd Holder.

  43. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 11:30 am #

    Now whether or not we have ever done it is not the heart of the matter, it only goes to the showing that the AG was not able to answer a simple question that he should have had an answer to readily at hand. The heart of the exchange is what came after.

    GRAHAM: If bin Laden were caught tomorrow, would it be the position of this administration that he would be brought to justice?

    HOLDER: He would certainly be brought to justice, absolutely.

    GRAHAM: Where would you try him?

    HOLDER: Well, we’d go through our protocol. And we’d make the determination about where he should appropriately be tried. [...]

    GRAHAM: If we captured bin Laden tomorrow, would he be entitled to Miranda warnings at the moment of capture?

    HOLDER: Again I’m not — that all depends. I mean, the notion that we –

    GRAHAM: Well, it does not depend. If you’re going to prosecute anybody in civilian court, our law is clear that the moment custodial interrogation occurs the defendant, the criminal defendant, is entitled to a lawyer and to be informed of their right to remain silent.

    The big problem I have is that you’re criminalizing the war, that if we caught bin Laden tomorrow, we’d have mixed theories and we couldn’t turn him over — to the CIA, the FBI or military intelligence — for an interrogation on the battlefield, because now we’re saying that he is subject to criminal court in the United States. And you’re confusing the people fighting this war.

    Conclusion. The AG is either woefully unprepared due to stupidity, even ignorance would be eveidence of studidity, or he has a hidden agenda, one which cannot be revealed.

  44. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 11:32 am #

    Remove an “e” where not needed.

  45. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 11:33 am #

    “studidity”

    Ha!

  46. Comment by BJTexs on 11/20 @ 11:36 am #

    geoff, I also think that this is a great indicator of Holder’s personal arrogance. The level of (lack) of preparation for responses to logical and reasonable questions would seem to indicate that he didn’t expect to be challenged on this decision or have hypothetical questions asked in other circumstances.

  47. Comment by doubled on 11/20 @ 11:38 am #

    They give millions out to people in non-existant districts, and then they blame it on the recipients for marking non-existant districts on some disclosure thingy that they created and set up themselves, spent hundreds of thousands on tens of thousand dollar jobs to ’save’ those who weren’t at risk of losing employment anyway, and we are debating whether they are stupid or not?

  48. Comment by doubled on 11/20 @ 11:40 am #

    I’d be willing to believe outright fraud of course.

  49. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 11:41 am #

    You have heard it said, I have heard it said, that the American justice system is such that it would rather see a guilty man go free than see an innocent man be convicted. How can this possibly be said of KSM? It cannot. And if it cannot, how can it be said of the system of justice in future? Is that the point?

  50. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 11:44 am #

    In my defense I worked late last night and got to bed at 4am. I’m finishing my 2nd coffee now.

  51. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 11:47 am #

    Woozy geoff brings teh funny, still worth it for studidity, about as good an excuse for a Holder as imaginable, I say.

  52. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 11:48 am #

    And if it cannot, how can it be said of the system of justice in future? Is that the point?

    I think that goes to the point I made a couple of days ago that they may be trying to remake the civilian courts into something more totalitarian.

  53. Comment by I Callahan on 11/20 @ 11:50 am #

    I think it’s a bit of projection when people think this is just stupidity. I don’t mean that disrespectfully – I mean that as in the intelligent posters here think that nobody could be so blind to reality that they’d believe the bunk that they believe. Therefore, they project their logic on the lefties that back this stuff.

    I’m here to tell you. These people are true believers. They’re socialists through and through, and yes, they meant to insert every single crazy policy into that bill.

    The more people are beholden to government, the more the left is in power. The more they’re in power, the more they’ll be able to control all of us.

    I’m with Darleen – these people aren’t stupid, they’re malicious. There’s no way anyone could be that stupid and get into a position of power in the first place – appointed or elected.

    TV (Harry)

  54. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 11:51 am #

    That then, geoffb, would be the greater danger to the republic and far worthier of our attention as such than the slighter danger posed by the stupidities of the Reid-Pelosi health care boondoggle, no?

  55. Comment by SBP on 11/20 @ 11:55 am #

    I’d have to concur that they’re both stupid and evil.

    That may actually be the thing that saves us.

  56. Comment by McGehee on 11/20 @ 11:59 am #

    IDA, Padilla’s case was different because he is a US Citizen.

    FWIW, I said at the time and still do, that his citizenship should have been a non-issue since he was caught acting as an unlawful combatant on behalf of an enemy of the United States.

    If he wasn’t going to be charged with treason outright, he should have been handed over to the military tribunals along with the rest.

    Doesn’t make IDA right, though — any say “the right” is being “led” by Lyndsey Lohamnesty is obviously a dumbass.

  57. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 12:00 pm #

    “the greater danger to the republic “ It is like asking whether is is worse to be hung or face a firing squad, both are lethal.

  58. Comment by happyfeet on 11/20 @ 12:01 pm #

    The Barack Obama one is a shit president I think.

  59. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 12:01 pm #

    #56,

    Amen.

  60. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 12:03 pm #

    I don’t think so geoffb, at least I can’t see the health care thing getting loose long enough to do any serious damage. The conference of the rights of citizenship onto enemy combatants however is already doing damage far and wide.

  61. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 12:12 pm #

    I might be wrong and still woozy so IMHO. The rights of citizenship is something that can be reversed more easily than a Federal health-care program. So I should have used being sentenced to hang as against being diagnosed with liver cancer.

  62. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 12:17 pm #

    “The rights of citizenship is something that can be reversed more easily than a Federal health-care program.”

    Now I am puzzled. First, these rights haven’t been reversed that I know of (but you can straighten me out where I’ve overlooked the obvious). But they have been taken to be granted to non-citizens in a move unknown in the previous 200+ years of the nation’s history.

  63. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 12:32 pm #

    OK, I thought that the “conference of the rights of citizenship onto enemy combatants” had been done as an executive policy decision not as a matter of law. If so then another executive can reverse, or Congress can do so by making law.

    I’ll get back later as I really need to get my day going, late shifts mess up my schedule.

  64. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 12:37 pm #

    “…executive policy decision…”

    I think this move came as a result of Supreme Court decisions, decisions to which the sitting administration was adamantly opposed but forced to comply.

  65. Comment by Clint on 11/20 @ 1:49 pm #

    At Chicagoboyz, an interesting take on the ramifications of a civil trial for KSM (my apologies if this has been linked and discussed, I’ve only been here intermittently the past few weeks)

    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10193.html

    The greatest danger posed in the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) isn’t that he will go free. The greatest danger is that he will be convicted and that during his appeals the courts will ratify all of the extraordinary measures used to capture and convict him. The great danger is that the courts will ratify the rough, inaccurate and ambiguous norms of martial law as applying to all civil criminal trials.

    After a couple of decades of these court decisions reverberating throughout the legal system, we could end up living under de facto martial law.

    [...]

    For over two hundred years we were careful to keep a firewall between civil and martial law. We did so because civil and martial law are polar opposites. Civil law is focused on protecting the rights of the accused against the overwhelming power of the state. When there is doubt, the accused walks free. Martial law is focused on imposing a minimal order on bloody chaos. It was focused on allowing the military to complete its mission and win wars. When there is doubt, the accused is presumed guilty.

    Now, Obama wants to bring martial law into a civil court room in Manhattan. In order to let a civil conviction of KSM stand, the higher courts will have to overturn almost all the current constitutional protections of the accused.

    They will have to overturn the requirement for Miranda warnings. They will have to overturn the Fifth Amendment protection against self incrimination. They will have to overturn the right to face one’s accusers and to examine all evidence and evidence gathering methods.

    Even if the courts throw out his conviction, the government will never allow him to go free, so we will toss out protection against double jeopardy if they try to convict with a military tribunal, and toss out the right of no imprisonment without trial if they don’t.

    Our system of justice relies on precedent and equality of procedure. The same rules apply to every civil trail. We can’t say that it’s okay to deny the right against self-incrimination in one person’s trial while saying it’s okay in another. If the courts overturn the rights of one individual accused, it must overturn the rights of all of them.

    Anyone thinking the administration’s actions are pure stupidity are forgetting the teachings of Obama’s mentors, I think.

  66. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 3:13 pm #

    That was interesting reading, Clint. Thanks.

  67. Comment by BJTexs on 11/20 @ 3:43 pm #

    Krauthammer strips the genius from Holder … and it hurts:

    So why is Attorney General Eric Holder doing this? Ostensibly, to demonstrate to the world the superiority of our system, in which the rule of law and the fair trial reign.

    Really? What happens if KSM (and his co-defendants) “do not get convicted,” asked Senate Judiciary Committee member Herb Kohl. “Failure is not an option,” replied Holder. Not an option? Doesn’t the presumption of innocence, er, presume that prosecutorial failure — acquittal, hung jury — is an option? By undermining that presumption, Holder is undermining the fairness of the trial, the demonstration of which is the alleged rationale for putting on this show in the first place.

    Moreover, everyone knows that whatever the outcome of the trial, KSM will never walk free. He will spend the rest of his natural life in U.S. custody. Which makes the proceedings a farcical show trial from the very beginning.

    OW!!

  68. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 3:47 pm #

    “…to demonstrate to the world the superiority of our system, in which the rule of law and the fair trial reign.”

    The stupidity of this desire is beyond describing. Though I’ve no doubt some such impoverishment of mind does animate Holder’s supporters, if not Holder himself. But really, it is mind-blowingly idiotic.

  69. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 3:48 pm #

    If acquitted, the 9th Circuit will release Hairshirt on his own recognizance.

  70. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 3:50 pm #

    We already saw Sen Leahy play the prison-rape card the other day, JD, with NYC playing the role of the prison and the citizens of NYC the role of the prison rapist. As I said then, I’ll say again now: nice.

  71. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 3:53 pm #

    Leahy is a cunt.

  72. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 3:58 pm #

    Bush appointees Comey and Goldsmith applaud Holder. Figures.

  73. Comment by BJTexs on 11/20 @ 4:00 pm #

    I read that, sdferr and am considering a fisking for the pub tomorrow.

  74. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 4:31 pm #

    Mullah Omar, I’d like you to meet my little friend.

    But would Comey and Goldsmith approve?

  75. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 6:22 pm #

    Conflict of interest? Nah.

  76. Comment by Dave E. on 11/20 @ 6:38 pm #

    “…nothing to see, move one.”

    Perhaps the most unintentionally perfect typo ever.

  77. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 6:59 pm #

    Sen Kyl’s questioning of AG Holder. —

    Holder: I’m not making value judgments about which case is more heinous or which lives are more valuable. I’m looking simply at the facts and at the protocols and trying to make determinations as to where cases are appropriately sited.

    “It’s science, see, you idiots? I’m a scientific Attorney General, that’s all.”

  78. Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/20 @ 7:30 pm #

    From ex parte Quirin:

    “All the petitioners were born in Germany; all have lived in the United States. All returned to Germany between 1933 and 1941. All except petitioner Haupt are admittedly citizens of the German Reich, with which the United States is at war. Haupt came to this country with his parents when he was five years old; it is contended that he became a citizen of the United States by virtue of the naturalization of his parents during his minority and that he has not since lost his citizenship. The Government, however, takes the position that on attaining his majority he elected to maintain German allegiance and citizenship or in any case that he has by his conduct renounced or abandoned his United States citizenship.”

    The Court did not resolve this issue and did not find that they needed to, which is itself instructive.

  79. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 8:21 pm #

    I just skipped to the end, I am so disgusted. Either Obama systematically appoints sub-comatose dimwits, or he is surrounding himself with a knowing coterie of stumbling boobs, or serial winkers. Either could be the case, since they may be the same. What the fuck is the sameministration doing laying down while Geithner and Summers and Ghoulsbee are backing up the truck? Eric Holder was radioactive from the getgo. Why go with the dregs? Obama really screwed up, got screwed, or just doesn’t give a damn.

  80. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 8:44 pm #

    They are only the “dregs” from a certain perspective. A perspective that would be held by most reasonable people but not the only one that could be held. Geithner, Summers, Goolsbee and Holder could be precisely what Obama wanted and doing precisely what he wishes to have done. And/or the bench of the progressive left is very shallow due to the need for political reliability as the foremost character trait before all others.

    I’ll go with SBP at #56 that the “And” above is operative. They are both stupidly evil and evilly stupid. Or “studid” if that fits too.

  81. Comment by happyfeet on 11/20 @ 9:01 pm #

    Our little Supereme Court desperately needs to knock Eric Holder’s balls into the back of his fascist fucking throat I think.

  82. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 9:01 pm #

    Sorry, geoffb, but stupid and evil I never attributed to the Bush bunch. It was evil, plain and simple. A sinister redirection of the national ethos. The Obama bunch are like a retreaded tire that’s driven up Mount Fuji. I don’t think they’re malevolent; they’re just stupid and out of their element. But the ultimate result will probably be disaster.

  83. Comment by Mr. Pink on 11/20 @ 9:05 pm #

    “Sorry, geoffb, but stupid and evil I never attributed to the Bush bunch. It was evil, plain and simple.”

    I would agree with you if the Bush Justice Department vacated guilty verdicts of its political cronies. ala the PA Black Panthers.

  84. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 9:06 pm #

    I get it. You guys clearly want the whole fail-to-thrive America to be a wicked eeeevil Obama plot. You dream your dream; I’ll dream mine. In the meantime, kittens die.

  85. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:10 pm #

    One question cynn? What do you think should be done with Khalid Sheik Mohammed? Is he a kitten?

  86. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 9:15 pm #

    But the ultimate result will probably be disaster.

    On this we can agree.

  87. Comment by Pablo on 11/20 @ 9:17 pm #

    Our little Supereme Court desperately needs to knock Eric Holder’s balls into the back of his fascist fucking throat I think.

    Can anyone sue over this? I mean to block this prosecution? It would be damned interesting if someone has standing. 9/11 families, maybe?

    We seem to be making it up as we go along, so why not?

  88. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:20 pm #

    “Our little Supereme Court desperately needs to knock Eric Holder’s balls into the back of his fascist fucking throat I think.”

    This is the same Scotus that gave us Rasul v Bush and Boumediene v. Bush? Not bloody likely.

  89. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 9:21 pm #

    sdferr: KSM should have been shot in the field, if caught in the act. Now that we have him, he’s Obama’s hot potato that has to be properly dispensed with. I think trying him in NYC is appropriate because despite the risk to security, some bright young thing will find a way to dispatch him beforehand.

  90. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:24 pm #

    “..properly dispensed with…”

    That is what used to be called “begging the question”.

    “NYC is appropriate because despite the risk to security, some bright young thing will find a way to dispatch him beforehand.”

    That is what we can call a speculative dodge.

  91. Comment by happyfeet on 11/20 @ 9:25 pm #

    I think I pray you’re right, cynn. I’ll have to think on that a bit. It’s kind of a startling idea.

  92. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 9:25 pm #

    So what?

  93. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 9:35 pm #

    You guys are indeed kooks.

  94. Comment by Mr. Pink on 11/20 @ 9:47 pm #

    “because despite the risk to security, some bright young thing will find a way to dispatch him beforehand.”

    We are kooks and you are not but want someone to shoot this guy before his trial?

  95. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 9:51 pm #

    Piss off, FBI; we’ve been over this.

  96. Comment by happyfeet on 11/20 @ 9:52 pm #

    here’s a song about chocolate… the singer guy looks just like Joyce Dewitt I think.

  97. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 9:55 pm #

    sdferr,

    Due to your comments around noon I went back looking at the various court decisions concerning the detainees.

    About the only conclusion I can draw from that morass is that the CCR (The Center for Constitutional Rights) in their “Guantanamo Global Justice Initiative” with the witting or unwitting assistance of various law firms and Federal judges and now the Obama Justice Department’s own “Global Justice Initiative” are executing a Cloward/Piven strategy upon the legal system and the Military of the United States. The Rasul decision has caused a chain reaction of decisions that led to more and more irrational decisions. Legal quicksand. KSM and Holder just the latest greatest as we slide beneath the sludge.

  98. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:56 pm #

    Yep, that sounds about right geoffb.

  99. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:58 pm #

    A possible, but incredibly unlikely while ballsy decision might have been had Pres. Bush simply instructed an MP to put KSM on a wall and shoot him dead, then turn to the Scotus and ask, now what are you going to do?

  100. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 9:59 pm #

    Or better yet, travel to Guantanamo and do the deed himself.

  101. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:00 pm #

    Why don’t you go?

  102. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:01 pm #

    Why don’t I go? I’m not the CinC.

  103. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:02 pm #

    Obama baby could do it now if he wanted to though. Nothing reserves the act to Bush alone. Any CinC has the requisite authority, I think.

  104. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:03 pm #

    You could probably shoot KSM as well as anyone.

  105. Comment by Pablo on 11/20 @ 10:03 pm #

    A possible, but incredibly unlikely while ballsy decision might have been had Pres. Bush simply instructed an MP to put KSM on a wall and shoot him dead, then turn to the Scotus and ask, now what are you going to do?

    SCOTUS? How many divisions do they have?

  106. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:05 pm #

    “You could probably shoot KSM as well as anyone.”

    Well sure, anyone could shoot him. That isn’t the point. The point is that the Constitution confers command authority on the Executive alone.

  107. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:08 pm #

    No, that’s not the point. If your predecessors had fought the war right, he’d be dead. Along with the rest of America’s enemies. But you punted it.

  108. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:10 pm #

    “…your predecessors…”

    WTF does that mean?

  109. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:15 pm #

    Um, the ones that preceded you?

  110. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:16 pm #

    1: one that precedes; especially : a person who has previously occupied a position or office to which another has succeeded
    2 archaic : ancestor

  111. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 10:20 pm #

    Neither applies to any situation I’m aware of in your posited scenario, i.e. in conduct of the war fought, you say, by “my” predecessors, incorrectly, you say and then close by saying “but you punted” where the you is supposed to refer to me, yet it was some supposed predecessors who were actually fighting incorrectly by your lights? You’re fucking batshit nuts.

  112. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:21 pm #

    did I get this word wrong or what? You guys are major nitpickers anymore.

  113. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 10:25 pm #

    “But you punted it.”

    No they tried to fight it in a way that kept us out of the mud. A way that gave the societies the terrorists came out of a chance to change into something better. The honorable way or war.

    Unfortunately there are dishonorable enemies not only abroad but ensconced within our government and political systems. Fifth columns have to be fought too. They weren’t.

  114. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:29 pm #

    sdferr: You’re an asshole and disingenuous at that. Not every lefty you deal with is some botresponse. Some of us are pissed. To your point: yes, you pissy ass, your predecessors now and future (how incongruous) are responsible for your present stance. You make zero sense, and even less impact.

  115. Comment by happyfeet on 11/20 @ 10:31 pm #

    sdferr is not like that how you say cynn and I think you should be more nicer

  116. Comment by geoffb on 11/20 @ 10:39 pm #

    sdferr is not an asshole. I am. Proudly. For many years. I expect to be worse as my “golden years” wear on.

    And it’s Obama’s predecessor, Bush, I assume you are talking about.

  117. Comment by JD on 11/20 @ 10:40 pm #

    Ernest & Julio Gallo weep.

  118. Comment by SBP on 11/20 @ 10:42 pm #

    your predecessors now and future

    What. The. FUCK?

  119. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:48 pm #

    It’s true. I should be more respectful of sdferr, who is my actually my equal. But I don’t appreciate anyone writing off me and my government.

  120. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:50 pm #

    SPB: That was a joke, OK?

  121. Comment by SBP on 11/20 @ 10:50 pm #

    who is my actually my equal

    You mean other than being sober, sane, and outranking you by at least 70 IQ points?

  122. Comment by SBP on 11/20 @ 10:52 pm #

    #121: Oh, I think people are definitely laughing, cynn. Just not the way you intended.

  123. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 10:57 pm #

    Looks like Spies found the manhole. Time for me to go. Night, all.

  124. Comment by SBP on 11/20 @ 11:03 pm #

    Seeing bugs already, cynn?

  125. Comment by LTC John on 11/20 @ 11:07 pm #

    Don’t bother coming back, cynn. You do nothing of value here. I hate to be so impolte, but sometimes plaint truth must out – manners aside.

  126. Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/20 @ 11:08 pm #

    Why go with the dregs?

    Cloward-Piven?

  127. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 11:10 pm #

    You are truly morons.

  128. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 11:10 pm #

    I’m with cynn on this one guys. I haven’t got much use for me either.

  129. Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/20 @ 11:21 pm #

    If your predecessors had fought the war right, he’d be dead.

    Not even remotely.

  130. Comment by cynn on 11/20 @ 11:22 pm #

    LTC John: You don’t want me back here. It must be boring or inconvenient for you. You don’t wan’t to be exposed to anyone who questions anything that makes you uncomfortable. Got it.

  131. Comment by sdferr on 11/20 @ 11:28 pm #

    It would be a great thing if you had questions that were of any use at all cynn, truly. But your insistence, your stubborn refusal to articulate a question in language anyone can understand (and by anyone, take me to mean the morons you understand yourself to be communicating with — which makes you distinctly unlike us of course, insofar as you also choose to insist that we assume “every lefty you deal with is some botresponse”, whatever a botresponse is) why then we could all get to know the depth of your earnest search for answers.

  132. Comment by RTO Trainer on 11/20 @ 11:36 pm #

    Cynn,

    What’s maddening is that you have made substantive coherent contributions to conversations here, but it’s exceptionally rare. When you do, it’s great. Otherwise,it’s just poking a wino with a stick, which can be fun, but only for a little while.

  133. Comment by McGehee on 11/21 @ 7:11 am #

    Cynn and Friday nights. Napoleon and Waterloo.

  134. Comment by Patrick Chester on 11/21 @ 7:45 am #

    LTC John wrote:
    I dunno….I am not sure I can attribute malice when stupidity seems to be so omnipresent.

    Could be both.

  135. Comment by cynn on 11/21 @ 9:03 pm #

    Sorry, RTO and others. Micro, I am dealing with a cat who refuses to use her litterbox anymore. I have run out of money. My PC with Windows Vista is shit and won’t load let alone run anything that is Flash-based. My daughter plays her music too loud, and my neighbors hate me. Macro, this government and economy suck. Immediate solution: kill the cat, buy nothing, get a new OS, flip certain circuit breakers, keep the lights off. Maybe this small gesture might address the larger problem. Sorry to hang on you guys. Where is Ric Locke when one needs him.

  136. Comment by maggie katzen on 11/22 @ 12:55 am #

    Where is Ric Locke when one needs him.

    in a not much better spot than yourself. His access to the intertubes is spotty at best since he closed his store. Or he may still be on a job in, I think he said, Mexico.

    and sorry about your kitty.

  137. Comment by Danger on 11/22 @ 5:32 am #

    Cynn,

    Sorry to hear about you troubles Cynn. I’ll send a prayer Up-chain for ya.

    FWIW though, I hear good things about Windows 7. If your PC is less than a year old you might be eligible for a free or discounted upgrade.

  138. Comment by Danger on 11/22 @ 1:35 pm #

    That was kind of redundant so I’ll double up on the prayers;)

  139. Comment by cynn on 11/22 @ 8:45 pm #

    Danger, if you are in the military you need mega more prayers than my sorry ass. We let you down.

  140. Comment by happyfeet on 11/22 @ 8:48 pm #

    Ric hasn’t updated lately.

  141. Comment by Bob Reed on 11/22 @ 8:58 pm #

    Cynn, I hope that everything works out for you, and gets better real soon. I mean that from the botom of my heart.

    Just because we have differences of political opinions, doesn’t mean that I’m not concerned for others who are having a difficult time.

    As Danger did, I’ll remember you in my prayers.

    All the best

  142. Comment by Danger on 11/23 @ 7:55 am #

    “Danger, if you are in the military you need mega more prayers than my sorry ass. We let you down.”

    Cynn,

    That is kind of you. I’ve found that the best way to overcome your troubles is to try to help some one else more in need.

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