Our [Democrat] moral values, in contradiction to the Republicans’, is we don’t think kids ought to go to bed hungry at night. ~~ Howard Dean 5/22/2005
That one, sincerely offered and wholely indecent quote pretty much sums up the mindset of Progressives. Disagree with them, you can’t be mistaken, you are evil. What else can be concluded from the erstwhile chairman of the Democratic Party, who actually believes Republicans want children to starve?
It certainly is the basis of the arguments of those who want the nationalization of American Medicine and clearly demonstrated by the hysterical reaction to the Stupak amendment.
If liberals are so disturbed by Congress dictating whether abortion is a legitimate health care issue or not, it only makes sense that they should be equally troubled by government management of other health care decisions.Undoubtedly, this is zealously naive thinking on my part. Reaching such a conclusion demands a modicum of consistency. And as we’ve seen, health care “reform” is an ideological crusade immune from logic. [...]
I have no doubt that the progressive wing of Congress — folks who generally support a single-payer plan that would eradicate choice and freedom in health care — believe government failing to give you something is indistinguishable from government taking something away from you.
Yet, while no one will be stripped of their right to have an abortion under this legislation, the vast majority of citizens will have to deal with a cluster of new mandates and more than 100 new government bureaucracies to enforce them.
Citizens will be ordered to buy insurance or face jail time. Americans will answer to a “commissioner of health choices” and pay extra taxes for having the gall to buy top-of-the- line insurance plans. They will no longer have the right to choose health savings accounts or high-deductible plans or, in most cases, flexible spending accounts.
That’s just for starters.
Indeed, it is. Betsy McCaughey in the WSJ bullet points just a few of the startling things to be found in the Pelosi debacle (with the page numbers in the bill). One example:
Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a “qualified plan” covers and how much you’ll be legally required to pay for it. That’s like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.
Even the NYTimes can’t ignore the non-”insurance reform” Progressive utopian goodies lurking in the pages:
Another provision of the bill would establish the new labeling requirements for vending machines. Anyone who owns or operates 20 or more vending machines would have to “provide a sign in close proximity to each article of food or the selection button that includes a clear and conspicuous statement disclosing the number of calories contained in the article. [...]Under the bill, chain restaurants with more than 20 locations would have to provide a calorie count for each standard menu item. The data would have to be displayed on the menu “in a clear and conspicuous manner.” Salad bars and cafeterias could satisfy the requirement by placing little signs next to items. The requirements would apply to restaurants as diverse as McDonald’s, Burger King, Ruth’s Chris Steak House and the Capital Grille. [...]
The House bill this year would create many new programs. It would, for example, provide grants to states for “home visitation” programs in which nurses and social workers counsel pregnant women and new mothers in low-income families.
A social worker could coach adults on “parenting practices” and teach skills needed to “interact with their child to enhance age-appropriate development.”
Doesn’t that last bit, “coach adults with home visits” sound so warm and fuzzy? No, no possibility for mischief there.
A pregnant woman who invited a policewoman into her half- decorated home ended up being reported to social workers for being a potentially unfit mother.
The words “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” are quite deliberate. Proper government for a free people does not guarantee happiness nor grant happiness to some people at the expense of liberty of other people. Government is to secure and protect basic rights as individual citizens make of their lives as their talents and ambitions will take them. Proper government for a free people assumes its citizens are adults and protects their rights to voluntary interaction.
And any President in favor of jail time for American citizens, NOT for use of force against a fellow citizen (robbery, fraud, etc), but for those who won’t purchase his insurance is no champion of Liberty.
Indeed, Progressives reject Liberty. It gets in the way of their Utopia.
Comment by Joe on 11/12 @ 8:54 am #
Howard Dean is of the party that does not want to see kids go hungry (because those fat Republican love that) but he is also of the party that seems pretty good with offing the little buggers before they have to eat. Surplus population and all that humbug.
The Stupak Amendment might as well be called the Stupid Amendment (for those pro life Dems who pushed for it). Hey all you liberal baby killers, cheer up. Nancy does not really mean it. The play is already happening where Stupak will be left behind, but the House Bill will still stand. How does it work. That is the beauty of inside Congress politics, it is a mystery.
And those pro life Dems were just looking for political cover. Provided they can get that, they are good.
Comment by Bob Reed on 11/12 @ 9:09 am #
No one sworn to uphold the Constitution could possibly assent to the bill that came out of the House last Saturday; it is far too invasive in the lives of individual citizens. And, for the party that uses as one of it’s primary panderings to it’s constituent victimhood groups that drug laws “unfairly” result in the incarceration of folks who are otherwise “law abiding”, the agreement on fines and jail time for non-conformance with their “mandate” is beathtakingly hypocritical. Especially when it is the opinion of some legislators that such a requirement itself is unconsttutional!
This bill isn’t about health care reform; if so it would address portability, competition-by allowing insurance companies to sell nationwide, and tort reform, along with any other issues addressed. It is about extending the power of the state into some of the most personal areas of our lives, and gaining control over 1/6th of the economy.
It is a bad idea, who’s time has come…to be discarded!
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 9:16 am #
I hopey that last Saturday’s vote goes down in history, just not for the same reasons that SanFranNan wishes the same thing.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 9:20 am #
I am still retching over that presser where all of the totalitarian leftists were gushing from their gashes about how SanFranNan is the greaterest Speaker EVAH !!!!!!!!
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 9:21 am #
Who actually believes Republicans want children to starve?
Me.
Comment by DarthRove on 11/12 @ 9:24 am #
Not that there are many Republicans here, of course, but I can’t believe Snowcone really thinks that. Another pitiful attempt to attract attention. Those of us with small children (that are NOT starving, I might add) can easily recognize the behavior.
Comment by Squid on 11/12 @ 9:26 am #
That one, sincerely offered and wholely indecent quote pretty much sums up the mindset of Progressives. Disagree with them, you can’t be mistaken, you are evil.
‘Tis a source of endless frustration for me. I try to explain that I’m as bothered by hungry children as they are. I try to explain that their preferred programs will not actually lessen child hunger. I try to explain how their “heroic” politicians are lying to them and using them to further a naked power grab. I try to explain my ideas for things that would work better. And it all just goes in one ear and out the other, because too often I’m dealing with True Believers who’ve never given a thought to any idea that won’t fit on a bumper sticker.
It often boils down to “Allow me to explain how I’m not evil, and I’ll allow you to explain how you’re not stupid.” It’s frustrating and sad.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 9:27 am #
Exhibit A.
And this little tidbit is too good to ignore. The Stupak amendment, you see, will…
Comment by Dotcoman on 11/12 @ 9:27 am #
Our [Democrat] moral values, in contradiction to the Republicans’, is we don’t think kids ought to go to bed hungry at night. ~~ Howard Dean 5/22/2005
Thus we favor Murdering them in the womb before they can become hungry, take their first breath, or go to bed for that matter.
Republicans are evil monsters for wanting Children to have to suffer the pain of child birth, we Liberals strive to spare them that.
Comment by LTC John on 11/12 @ 9:27 am #
Time for the complete deletion, I think.
Comment by LTC John on 11/12 @ 9:29 am #
Of the TTP, that is.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 9:30 am #
That was a wonderfully succinct description of alphie. Thank you.
Comment by Squid on 11/12 @ 9:30 am #
Snowy, what makes you think that Republicans want children to starve? In your interactions with this community so far, you’ve revealed that you consider Republicans to be some hydra-headed beast made up of fat-cat industrialists and god-bothering evangelicals.
What do fat-cat industrialists have to gain by keeping children hungry? How many evangelicals have you met that would deny charitable support to the hungry?
Comment by Joe on 11/12 @ 9:31 am #
Snowcone, you are right. You are in the party who wants to starve the disabled and brain damaged. You just kill kids (provided they weigh less than eight pounds or so).
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 9:34 am #
It just happens that Peter Robinson is interviewing Pres. Vaclav Klaus of the Czech Republic this week.
Klaus, an economist persuaded by the Austrian School, sits in the nearly unique position of a man who has in his lifetime seen his nation escape the clutches of the USSR to grow into full national sovereignty, only to watch as that same nation cedes that hard won sovereignty slowly but very surely to the supra-national European Union and with it, increasing socialistic/bureaucratic governance.
There are four episodes of this interview already up with a fifth due tomorrow. I urge you to watch them. Klaus is a rare man indeed.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 9:39 am #
Another pitiful attempt to attract attention.
Actually, just a cold assessment of today’s Republicans.
I also believe you guys would let old people die, too.
So does most of America.
Comment by Joe on 11/12 @ 9:42 am #
No Snowcone, letting the elderly die is the way for Barack Obama to make health care (and social security work). Ration health care that extends old people’s lives. They die. Win Win. It might even balance. The Dems would put those oldsters out on ice flows like the Eskimos, but Al Gore says there are not going to be enough ice flows in a few years.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 9:42 am #
The irony of it advocating for a system that will guarantee rationing and accusing others of wanting to let old people die and starve children just shattered ironymeters worldwide.
Comment by Old Texas Turkey on 11/12 @ 9:43 am #
I second the motion by the good LTC. All in favor say “aye”.
Comment by Old Texas Turkey on 11/12 @ 9:45 am #
Perhaps they can put old folks out on Al Gore;s ass. Its about Ice flow size.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 9:46 am #
And here’s another fabulous example of the necessity of intentionalism.
“wanting children to starve” in the progressive parlance is simply shorthand for “insufficiently desperate to avoid starving children as to surrender your liberty to the state” or, perhaps “too much enamoured of an economic system, that, whatever benefits it brings, does not prevent all children from starving, and is therefore wicked.”
Under capitalism, there are starving children. So if you like capitalism, you like starving children. Q.E. fuckin’ D.
So maybe its really a fabulous example of the need for people to study Logic before they’re given a bachelor’s degree.
Or maybe I just need a few drinks and some more of those Strawberry-Bannanalicious cupcakes someone left in the break room.
Comment by DarthRove on 11/12 @ 9:48 am #
I’ll have to vote “aye”. The constant inept attempts to incite rage are now evoking only boredom. It moved there from pity, and before that, bemusement. Bandwidth and electrons are cheap, but not cheap enough to house Snowy’s oral diarrhea.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 9:48 am #
Yikes! h/t MKH at WeeklyStandardBlog
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 9:49 am #
In any case, there’s no point in speculating as to the nature of Snowcone’s rhetorical retardation. Because if you think the cause is identified, then you will conclude that there is a level of stupid to which he will not descend. Snowcone daily demonstrates the lack of basis for such a hope.
And his mom dresses him funny.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 9:50 am #
letting the elderly die is the way for Barack Obama to make health care (and social security work)
If you ever want to know what the Republicans are up to, just see what they’re accusing the Democrats of.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 9:53 am #
Observe the non-sequitorian in action. Note the subtle, myriad shifts in attention, the stale outpourings of another man’s argument without naming it.
What you may fail to see unless you watch closely is the surety he feels at exactly how brilliant he’s being.
Comment by Squid on 11/12 @ 9:55 am #
Last I heard, they were accusing the Democrats of controlling the White House and Congress.
Funny, that.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 9:55 am #
Do you know they are refusing to give Swine Flu shots to the elderly in many locations now? I wonder who made that decision?
Comment by Eben on 11/12 @ 9:56 am #
If you ever want to know what the Democrats are up to, just see what they’re accusing the Republicans of..
fixed
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 9:57 am #
And what would you call a group of people who make potentially life and death decisions like that?
Comment by Eben on 11/12 @ 9:58 am #
And what would you call a group of people who make potentially life and death decisions like that?
A Partner With God
Comment by MikeT on 11/12 @ 10:01 am #
Blogger, seek psychiatric help for your paranoia.
Comment by Squid on 11/12 @ 10:01 am #
He doesn’t even think he’s brilliant. We had a norse god who thought he was brilliant, but even his outsized ego couldn’t keep up the facade forever.
No, Snowy just spouts noise. He knows we’re on to him, and he knows that none of his arguments hold water. He exists just to distract, insult and annoy. He hopes one day to be counted among PW’s hall-of-fame trolls, for that’s the only notoriety he’s likely to find from his empty life.
I interact with him, as I’ve interacted with those who’ve come before, primarily so that the disinterested reader can see just how vapid his arguments are. For as much as I rail against the ignorance so prevalent in our society, I can hardly let ignorance such as his stand unchallenged.
Sure, I’d prefer that our host(s) vaporize the noise, but until such time, I’ll continue to point out how ludicrous his so-called “arguments” really are.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 10:02 am #
Those would be called life panels, BMoe, something previously abvoe their pay-grade.
Comment by Joe on 11/12 @ 10:04 am #
I see danger signals with Snowy. Keep him away from sharp objects and firearms.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 10:04 am #
MikeT joins the Moronic Convergence with alphie/yellowsnow. Just need RD/meya and the countless versions of willie the racist gender-bending skin flute player to complete it.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 10:08 am #
Yes Darleen, take note. Your political opinions are a manifestation of mental illness, say your political opponents. You need help, say they. The great man of steel, Stalin, as I recall, also recognized the proper use of the psychiatric arts in dealing with political opponents.
Comment by Eben on 11/12 @ 10:08 am #
OMG, someone linked to a Krugman article!
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 10:09 am #
2010 is coming up and snowcone has Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Tragic.
Don’t shoot anybody shitcone.
Oh, and of course you’re right. We sooooooo do want to starve children…but we can’t you see. You and yours keep murdering them in the womb.
$400 billion in Medicare cuts…
So, AARP just signed up to euthanize half it’s client base.
Bunch a fucking geniuses, that crew.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 10:09 am #
Pinheads like Paul Krugman are the reason I am paranoid.
Comment by Matt on 11/12 @ 10:09 am #
snowcone doesn’t want to children to starve and makes it his mission to feed said children. He tries to hand out candy to neighborhood children. However, the children report snowcone as “that creepy guy down the street who keeps asking me to come see his ‘movie’ collection”. Parents advise their children to avoid “mentally disturbed and possibly child molesters” like snowcone. snowcone fails in his mission to feed the children.
True story.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 10:11 am #
Krugman is a dishonest demonic dwarf that prolly is a clown for Halloween.
Comment by BJTexs on 11/12 @ 10:13 am #
LTC John is right. alphie is a stick poker of many years. Ignore him and move on.
MikeT is just ignorant. Ignore and move on.
Comment by BJTexs on 11/12 @ 10:13 am #
I hear Krugman wears black leather mittens with his clown suit, JD.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 10:14 am #
Kinda remarkable to have no alternative but to conclude that progressivism is anything but. Equally remarkable to have to point out the American fundamentals to these adults that any school kid knew 50 years ago.
If the proggs were the tolerant, enlightened, educated superior minds they claim to be, wouldn’t they recognize that it is they who are offending the American status quo and leave? Canada’s not far, nor is the EU. Wouldn’t that be tolerant, enlightened, smart, and progressive?
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 10:15 am #
“Krugman is a dishonest demonic dwarf that prolly is a clown for Halloween.”
No, he wears that particular uniform all year long.
On Halloween he dresses up as Jonah Goldberg.
SPOOKY!!
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 10:16 am #
MikeT was the fucker that tried to infantalize military members on Veterans Day to try to score some absurd political point about socializing medicine. It was an airball, or a furball. He is a fucker. Prolly buggers goats. It is true.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 10:17 am #
What mendacity. Obie’s death-panel-by-effect can lay proud claim to that principle, eh snoload?
And “we” have families, snojob. We don’t collectivize by force of law because we have neither the need nor the arrogance required to do so.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 10:18 am #
You can relax, B Moe. Krugman works for the New York Times. It’s going to be OK.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 10:20 am #
Vending machine stockers beware! Mismatch food items and labels and you will be held liable. But the employment opportunities for label/food item matching checkers are going to skyrocket! Full empoloyment, here we come.
Comment by geoffb on 11/12 @ 10:31 am #
I’d like to thank MikeT for providing that link. It is a marvelously concise display of the projection seen on the progressive side.
Their own concerns for their side are pasted onto the “Republicans” and the actions they are doing and seek to do are also placed as the action of their enemies too.
It is always useful to know what the other side is afraid of and what they are contemplating doing. It’s a keeper.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 10:33 am #
“Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 9:21 am #
Who actually believes Republicans want children to starve?
Me.”
That’s because you’re a retarded marmoset, snotspill.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 10:37 am #
#50
sdferr, it may be the food nazi stuff that actually starts the revolution and “unites the clans”. It won’t stop at the vending machines. Imagine 20 million construction guys/ painters/ landscapers/ day laborers who can no longer walk en mass into a convenience store around noon, buy chips and a frozen burrito, use the in-store microwave to cook said burrito, and all because Nancy Pelosi in her, “for the greater good” wisdom, has outlawed that cheap, delicious burrito.
There will be blood in the streets.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 10:41 am #
“…outlawed that cheap, delicious burrito.”
Do you think my Hostess Pink Tits could be in jeopardy LYBT? Such an eventuality, well I don’t even want to think about it, to tell you the truth.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 10:44 am #
“Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 9:39 am #
Another pitiful attempt to attract attention.
Actually, just a cold assessment of today’s Republicans.
I also believe you guys would let old people die, too.”
That’s because you’re a retarded marmoset, snotspill.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 10:45 am #
what makes you think that Republicans want children to starve
Because Republican dogma clearly states that when there’s a choice between helping out the poor or lowering taxes, the choice should always be for lowering taxes.
Comment by Scrapiron on 11/12 @ 10:48 am #
I remember a study which revealed that 47/48% of Americans are, or should be, under the care of a mental health professional. ACORN/SEIU only had to steal 4% of the vote to put an idiot in the white house.
Who said in 2006 (unemployment 4.5%, stock Market at highest level in history, and the fastest growing economy in the world) said elect us and we’ll change the direction of this country? Welcome to Peeloshi/Reid/O’Dumbo hope and change. I volunteer for the firing squad, if the terrorist they love so much doesn’t take them out first.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 10:51 am #
False dicotomy, and the “clearly states” is abject bullshit. People with lower tax burdens have more resources with which to help the poor. And in turn, helping the poor can then further lower one’s tax burden.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 10:52 am #
“Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 10:45 am #
what makes you think that Republicans want children to starve
Because Republican dogma clearly states that when there’s a choice between helping out the poor or lowering taxes, the choice should always be for lowering taxes.”
You’re a retarded marmoset, snotspill.
Comment by Eben on 11/12 @ 10:53 am #
Only a true fascist like Snotcone believes that there is no helping of anyone outside of the government doing it.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 10:56 am #
Because Republican dogma clearly states that when there’s a choice between helping out the poor or lowering taxes, the choice should always be for lowering taxes.
Like I said…“insufficiently desperate to avoid starving children as to surrender your liberty to the state.”
Because, you know, we can’t help the poor and have low taxes.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 10:57 am #
“Do you think my Hostess Pink Tits could be in jeopardy LYBT?”
Sadly, yes. Twinkies apparently survive nuclear fallout (thanks Family Guy), so stock those in your bunker. You should also probably sell any shares of Little Debbie.
“Because Republican dogma clearly states that when there’s a choice between helping out the poor or lowering taxes, the choice should always be for lowering taxes.”
Yes! Because lowering the taxes of people who can then turn around, invest, or open a business, create jobs and there-by employee said poor chap, where-by poor chap becomes completely self sufficient, feeds his children, and gets off the government tit is…awful.
Democrats. Making the sad poor, sadder and poorer for 60 years.
Progressive jackboots AND government cheese! Yay!!!
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 10:58 am #
OT, but incedibly astute.
Amb. John Bolton described O!bama’s dithering about decviding an Afghan strategy a “slow motion train wreck.”
Via Hot Air
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/12/video-bolton-blasts-obamas-delay-on-afghanistan/
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 10:58 am #
The Ambasador’s mustache, Reggie, agrees.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 11:00 am #
People with lower tax burdens have more resources with which to help the poor.
Haha, the supply of infantile Republican rationalizations is endless.
I’d donate to charity if only my taxes weren’t so high, honest!
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 11:04 am #
“Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 11:00 am #
People with lower tax burdens have more resources with which to help the poor.
Haha, the supply of infantile Republican rationalizations is endless.
I’d donate to charity if only my taxes weren’t so high, honest!”
That’s if you actually, you know, had a job where you had to pay taxes, right, you reatrded marmoset?
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:05 am #
In Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism (Basic Books), Arthur C. Brooks finds that religious conservatives are far more charitable than secular liberals, and that those who support the idea that government should redistribute income are among the least likely to dig into their own wallets to help others.
Some of his findings have been touched on elsewhere by other scholars, but Mr. Brooks, a professor of public administration at Syracuse University, breaks new ground in amassing information from 15 sets of data in a slim 184-page book (not including the appendix) that he proudly describes as “a polemic.”
“If liberals persist in their antipathy to religion,” Mr. Brooks writes, “the Democrats will become not only the party of secularism, but also the party of uncharity.”*
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 11:06 am #
“I’d donate to charity if only my taxes weren’t so high, honest!”
Actually, that is literally true.
Other studies prove that conservatives are ever so much more charitable
than those ever so compassionate reactionary leftists.
Like snotspill.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 11:07 am #
HAH!
Thank you, Pablo.
“…the Democrats will become not only the party of secularism, but also the party of uncharity.”
Too late.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:08 am #
Bush, Cheney Release Information About Charitable Donations
Biden gave average of $369 to charity a year
Lots of interesting numbers in that second link.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:17 am #
You know, that seems to be to be a patently obvious fact with no reference whatsoever to partisanship or ideology. People with more dispoable income have more money to use in ways that aren’t necessary to self-maintenance. Pretty cut and dried. No wonder snowy doesn’t like it.
But thanks for putting that ball up on the tee.
Comment by Joe on 11/12 @ 11:21 am #
Hey Dodd is 11 points behind in Connecticut
I feel like a song…
O Doddy Boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side.
The summer’s gone and all the roses falling;
It’s you, it’s you must go and my smile is wide.
But not come back when summer’s in the meadow,
Or when the valley’s hushed and white with snow.
Yes, I’ll be here in sunshine or in shadow;
Oh Doddy Boy, oh Doddy Boy, I despise you so!
But when ye go, and all the Dems are crying,
Your career is dead, as dead as it should be.
I will come and find the place where you are lying,
And kick your corpse and say an Ave there for me.
And I you hear, as I dance above thee;
And oh you grave will colder and wetter be,
For your passing will show that God does love me;
And I shall sleep in peace because you nolonger be!
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 11:23 am #
Haha, Pablo,
Charitable giving in the U.S. of all kinds doesn’t even reach $300 billion a year.
The U.S. federal budget dwarfs that amount even before you deduct the rags and broken appliances and payments to primitive superstitions that accounts for much of U.S. “giving.”
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:24 am #
Liberal logic, from the link in #67:
Feelings…
Whoa, whoa, whoa feelings….
Comment by MikeT on 11/12 @ 11:25 am #
Seems like lots of inadvertent mistakes (intentional manipulations to sway the weak minded) from your media of choice.
Donate to charity? I’m sure a lot of conservatives donated to the Katrina victims. I’m sure a lot of conservatives support their local symphonies. Mr. Brooks happens to wrong about secularism.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:26 am #
Shorter snotcone: I think the goalposts look nice over here, by the BUNNIES!!!
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:27 am #
And MikeT concurs.
Comment by cranky-d on 11/12 @ 11:29 am #
All good comes only from the awesome majesty of the State!
Comment by happyfeet on 11/12 @ 11:30 am #
the dirty socialists are drooling on themselves with stupid and it hasn’t even been a year
our little country is not in good hands
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 11:31 am #
Moronic Convergences are always so … disturbing, insofar as it exposes how bereft of morals and decency they are.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 11:31 am #
I think the goalposts look nice over here, by the BUNNIES!!!
Well, your attitude is more telling, Pablo.
A country with an economy of over $14 trillion a year donates less than $300 billion to charity, most of that is just disguised waste removal and wasted phony piety.
Face it, without government programs, poor Americans would be starving in the streets.
Comment by Abe Froman on 11/12 @ 11:32 am #
Seems like lots of inadvertent mistakes (intentional manipulations to sway the weak minded) from your media of choice.
You’re an idiot. He apologized. Does the left do so after lying about how small various rallies are? And did MSNBC apologize for accusing Republicans of being racist by showing a man with a gun at an Obama appearance but cropping the shot so close that it hid the fact that the man they were showing with the gun was black? That’s more dishonest by orders of magnitude.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:34 am #
My country ’tis of of thee
Give some free shit to me
Or I will whine…
Comment by Abe Froman on 11/12 @ 11:36 am #
Face it, without government programs, poor Americans would be starving in the streets.
If you can manage to feed yourself then anyone can.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:37 am #
I blame the tightwad liberals.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 11/12 @ 11:41 am #
Only $300 billion. Hmph. That’s roughly $8500 for every man, woman and child living below the poverty line in the US.
Chickenfeed, I know.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 11:42 am #
Snotnose and MikeT define charity as taking our money and giving it to someone else.
Comment by Abe Froman on 11/12 @ 11:45 am #
Does the “$300 billion” include the $50 billion that poor, exploited Central American illegals manage to send back to their countries of origin every year?
Comment by MikeT on 11/12 @ 11:45 am #
Mr. Froman,
All networks make mistakes but with Fox, it’s intentional, consistent, and constant. Very unprofessional. And if we had not seen this so many times before, we could chalk it up to an inadvertent mistake. Only a fool would believe the inadvertent part.
They call themselves a news channel, yet Fox admits only about a third of their day is actually devoted to ‘news’. And we see what kind of shit they feed us. (Birthers, deathers, tea parties, ACORN, daily political attacks and distortions, etc…) It’s a joke.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 11:46 am #
“Face it, without government programs, poor Americans would be starving in the streets.”
You’re a retarded marmoset, snotspill.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 11:48 am #
MSNBC is a news channel, people. Olbergasm and MadCow are fucking truth-tellers, bitches !!!!!
Why did MikeT cross the road?
He got his crank stuck in the chicken.
Comment by Abe Froman on 11/12 @ 11:48 am #
Spare us your prattle MikeT. You sound like a brainwashed chimp desperately selling what you’ve been told to.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 11:49 am #
Does the money lost to corruption [$1.6 Trillion] count in the tallies of the do-gooders?
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:50 am #
I wonder what that works out to when you add in welfare, food stamps, WIC, Medicaid, S-CHIP and the rest of the gubmint charity we also pay for.
Oh, and proggies find MSNBC to be a credible news source, don’t they?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 11:51 am #
“Comment by MikeT on 11/12 @ 11:45 am #
Mr. Froman,
All networks make mistakes but with Fox, it’s intentional, consistent, and constant”
Liar.
“Very unprofessional.”
But Keith Olbermann, wow, he’s the cat’s pajamas.
“Only a fool would believe the inadvertent part.”
You the onlt fool around here, douchebag.
“They call themselves a news channel”
They ARE a news channel, moron.
“about a third of their day is actually devoted to ‘news’.”
Which is you think about it, is a better record thatn the 24/7 O!bama fellation on the other cable “news” channels.
“And we see what kind of shit they feed us.”
Truth hurts, huh dickwad?
“It’s a joke.”
No, your polluting this thread with reactionary, mindless leftist talking points is the joke.
Comment by meya on 11/12 @ 11:51 am #
“No one sworn to uphold the Constitution could possibly assent to the bill that came out of the House last Saturday…. Especially when it is the opinion of some legislators that such a requirement itself is unconsttutional!”
good switcheroo there.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 11:52 am #
Imagine how we’d rank if progressives weren’t so fucking cheap with their own cash.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 11:52 am #
A country with an economy of over $14 trillion a year donates less than $300 billion to charity, most of that is just disguised waste removal and wasted phony piety.
How much is this stupid? Let us count the ways…
1) Why is $300 billion not “enough”? How much would be “enough”?
2) What evidence is there that if the federal-and-state tax burden were not dramatically lowered, charitable giving would not increase?
3) Are you seriously accusing private charity of “waste” while advocating greater government charity? That’s like accusing a dachshund of mauling toddlers while demanding more food for your pit bull.
Now run along and ignore everything I’ve said.
Comment by cranky-d on 11/12 @ 11:53 am #
I was talking to my father last Sunday and stated, not for the first time, that we’re doomed as a country. He told me his father told him the same thing, which I guess is supposed to reassure me.
I still think we’re doomed, though.
Comment by mcgruder on 11/12 @ 11:56 am #
Snocone,
all of which explains the epidemic of childhood obesity in the poorer regions of America….you know, all that starving that is occurring because of broken appliances and rags that are given, in lieu of real charity….
I dunno, Im not even terribly conservative and I just can’t seem to keep up with this argument. Should I be giving more like liberals (thanks be to Gaia for the donations to symphonies and Harvard that the left gives; also, the Tides foundation), or should I be looking for a capital gains tax cut, which Snowcone tells me all the people on the right want.
All I know is that since 1980, when the GOP swept back into office in a big way, all government aid has been cut and the U.S. is now a big Kampuchea.
Where is Bob Geldof when you really fucking need him?
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 12:00 pm #
How many people does ACORN feed? Anyone know? (Underage illegal alien prostitutes notwithstanding.)
Comment by Retarded Marmoset Anti-Defamation League on 11/12 @ 12:03 pm #
You have been warned. Quit associating alphie and MikeT with us. Thank you.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 12:04 pm #
OMG. I just figured out how to stop hunger in America, and we can eliminate the need for charitable efforts to combat it.
Let’s make grocery shopping mandatory!
Comment by Abe Froman on 11/12 @ 12:04 pm #
I forgot to add that the $50 billion that illegals manage to send back to Central America comes from doing jobs that, cough, “Americans won’t do.” A lot of chubby charitable Central American illegals in my neck of the woods as well. So I guess the people who’d be starving in the streets (or stealing Happyfeet’s blackberry) are the peeps who find certain jobs too strenuous or otherwise beneath them.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 12:07 pm #
1) Why is $300 billion not “enough”?
Because it says private giving could never replace current federal government programs.
How much would be “enough”?
How about a biblicaly mandated 10% a year or…around $1.4 trillion annualy?
Comment by Carin on 11/12 @ 12:09 pm #
Face it, without government programs, poor Americans would be starving in the streets
Huh? So, I can shake off all the family members I’m helping out?
COOL! The government will help them! My dad is expensive to keep. He cranks the heat up to 72. Oysh. I think perhaps him and Obama have a similar comfort zone.
Comment by Retarded Marmoset Anti-Defamation League on 11/12 @ 12:10 pm #
Alphie – you are giving us a bad name.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 12:12 pm #
Where does that money come from? And if it didn’t go to the Fed, why couldn’t it be given privately? An added upside to that would be that private organizations spend money much more efficiently that the gubmint, resulting in more bang for the buck.
One problem with that would be, as we’ve noted, that progressives are so fucking cheap.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 12:13 pm #
Go right ahead, and tell your friends!
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 12:14 pm #
Poverty. Starvation.
You too can feed a snowcone or a MikeT for a just dollar a day.
Won’t you call now?
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 12:16 pm #
Evidently Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was into donating his funds. I guess his high contribution rate will be used to paint him a Republican.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 12:20 pm #
Because it says private giving could never replace current federal government programs.
Then you proggies better start ponying up. Though perhaps you could have at least considered my second question before offering this answer. (It’s “how do you know we wouldn’t give more if there wasn’t government aid” in case you forgot)
How much would be “enough”?
How about a biblicaly mandated 10% a year or…around $1.4 trillion annualy?
Do you mean that figure seriously, or merely as a way to say “hey stoopid wingers, your flying spaghetti monster book says you should give more”?
Is there actually a need for that much charity? I mean in the “clothe the hungry, feed the naked, bury the imprisoned” sense of the word. Or are you just positive that since we have SO much money, we should GIVE it, or otherwise we’re BAD people?
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 12:21 pm #
The reverse of which is, I’d donate to charity if only my taxes were higher. In fact, if my entire output was absorbed by the State, there’d be no poverty!
The supply of fascist rationalizations is not endless. It only takes one.
Comment by Matt on 11/12 @ 12:24 pm #
I think the charity thing is simple. I should get to decide to whom I’m going to give my charity, not the federal government. Some people do not deserve charity. I don’t particularly want to see people starving in the street but if you refuse to work because the government is sending you a check every month, you’re the problem.
And what’s the root cause of being poor ? unemployed ? Underemployed ? Lazy ? Disabled ? There’s alot of reasons and not all reasons are equal. And at the same time, I have no desire to dictate where your charity goes- if you want to donate to groups of people who don’t feel like working and would rather live off the government, that’s up to you. Simply said, I earned this money and I should have the right to choose what I do with it.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/12 @ 12:25 pm #
We’re not in a position where we can inflict a bunch of damage on ourselves on purpose, but the little president man hasn’t gotten the memo cause no one even bothered to cc Mr. Soros.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 12:28 pm #
The myths and assumptions it takes to dare utter such a statement are nearly as amusing as they are preposterous.
Comment by Matt on 11/12 @ 12:29 pm #
*How about a biblicaly mandated 10% a year or…around $1.4 trillion annualy?*
Hey that works. And if you don’t do it, Nancy Pelosi puts you in jail.
Comment by MikeT on 11/12 @ 12:29 pm #
MSNBC is a news channel, people. Olbergasm and MadCow are fucking truth-tellers, bitches !!!!!
Compare the research staff of Maddow and Olberman to anything that Fox has… it’s like looking at po-dunk community college vs. Harvard.
Actual screen shots from Fox News:
Iraq labeled as “Egypt”
Fox News misidentifies AND misspells Straits of Hormuz
Fox News reported Scooter Libby found “not guilty” when the opposite was true
Fox News routinely misidentifies disgraced Republicans as Democrats:
Mark Sanford
Mark Foley
Just to name a few ….
Comment by Eben on 11/12 @ 12:32 pm #
What’s amazing is that Americans give to charity roughly enough to give every breathing person here $1000.
Add your taxes into that and you get even more.
The crux of is issue is that religious folks give the vast majority of those sums and fascists like snotcone and Biden give practically nothing so they project their distaste for voluntary charity onto others.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 12:35 pm #
One of my favorite jokes:
Conservative guy goes over to his progressive neighbor’s house for a dinner party. Progressive neighbors have a little girl and love to tell everybody how smart and politically self aware she is at such a young age. Conservative walks in, greets the neighbors and here comes the little girl in her party dress. Progressives announce how smart and gifted she is. The rest goes like this:
Conservative: Sweetie, what do you want to be when you grow up?
Little girl: I’m gonna be President. And when I am I’m gonna give all the poor people $50 dollars each.
Conservative: That’s great sweetheart! But you don’t have to wait until you’re President to give poor people $50 dollars.
Little girl: [looks at her Mom then back] I don’t?
Conservative: Nope. Tell ya what, you come over this Saturday, pull all the weeds, sweep the deck, driveway, and the front walk. Then I’ll pay you $50 dollars. Then I’ll take you down to where the poor people are, and you can give one of them your $50 dollars.
Little girl: [long pause]…Why don’t you have one of the poor people do all that yard stuff and just pay them the $50 dollars?
Conservative [smiles]: Welcome to the Republican party kid.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 12:41 pm #
…”it’s like looking at po-dunk community college vs. Harvard.”
Where Eliot Spitzer is about to give a lecture on ethics.
Beat feet idiot.
CNN fact checked a fucking SNL skit.
But FoxNews gets a map wrong.
Sir, you are too stupid to ride this ride.
Move along.
Comment by Abe Froman on 11/12 @ 12:43 pm #
MikeT is trying soooo hard. I especially enjoyed the “just to name a few…” after noting a few graphics errors on a 24 hour channel. This almost has to be noted high school graduate and guitar teacher William Yelverton, as he routinely beclowns himself in the exact same manner when comparing Fox to PMSNBC.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 12:44 pm #
Hey, MikeT! Why doesn’t Van Jones work at the White House anymore?
Comment by Carin on 11/12 @ 12:45 pm #
MikeT is trying soooo hard. I especially enjoyed the “just to name a few…
LOL, yea. I’m guess we can prolly change that “just to name a few” to “that is the sum of my evidence. “
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 12:46 pm #
Oh, and why did Congress defund Acorn? You might rem,ember the ONE DAY that was a STORY.
Comment by Carin on 11/12 @ 12:48 pm #
Compare the research staff of Maddow and Olberman to anything that Fox has… it’s like looking at po-dunk community college vs. Harvard.
That crack staff that told Maddow that the Constitution didn’t have a preamble?
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 12:48 pm #
It takes a special kind of ideology to believe your news sources are pristine in their objectivity while the other guys’ are fever swamps of lies and distortions.
The mild kind of this is to say “yeah, my side lies, but yours Lies MUCH WORSE!”
Luckily, I don’t suffer from it. So continue bringing the pain against Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and then sit there puzzled when I don’t suddenly subscribe to your every point of view.
Comment by Abe Froman on 11/12 @ 12:49 pm #
I imagine a professional news channel refers to peaceful protesters as people who dip their balls in the mouths of, well, I suppose the recipients would be liberals.
Comment by Baracky on 11/12 @ 12:52 pm #
I also believe you guys would let old people die, too.
Who was it again that was passing out pain pills instead of pacemakers? Help me out here.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 12:55 pm #
“It takes a special kind of ideology to believe your news sources are pristine in their objectivity while the other guys’ are fever swamps of lies and distortions.”
Yet another example of such a one, Abe.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 12:56 pm #
Sorry, link broke above, my bad.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 12:58 pm #
“Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 12:14 pm #
Poverty. Starvation.
You too can feed a snowcone or a MikeT for a just dollar a day.
Won’t you call now?”
Fuck no.
I WANT those assholes to starve.
Comment by Carin on 11/12 @ 12:58 pm #
I don’t always agree with Rush or Glen Beck or O’Reilly (or even very often with that one) or … any number of conservative commentators.
I could bring up examples. Everyone of us could bring up examples where we very strongly disagreed with Bush. Or a number of conservative leaders.
Could any of the trolls give us ONE example when they disagreed with their liberal commentators? With Mo Dowd? With Obama?
This could be fun.
Comment by Joe on 11/12 @ 1:00 pm #
Dogs like to lick their own balls.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 1:01 pm #
“Compare the research staff of Maddow and Olberman to anything that Fox has…”
Yeah, Maddog and olberdouche’s are a buch of reactionary leftist howling moonbats, you fucking elbow licking retard.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 1:02 pm #
“I WANT those assholes to starve.”
Well…just stop paying taxes**
**Legal disclaimer: I did not in any way, shape or form just advise you to “stop paying taxes”.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 1:03 pm #
“Hey, MikeT! Why doesn’t Van Jones work at the White House anymore?”
Because of Fox News?
Just a guess there.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 1:05 pm #
“Comment by Joe on 11/12 @ 1:00 pm #
Dogs like to lick their own balls.”
What about snowcone?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 1:06 pm #
Or Mike T for that matter?
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 1:09 pm #
Either that or sheer naivety. Of course this is the same blinkered idiot what believes any government with a Dee behind it is supremely pristine.
Comment by Abe Froman on 11/12 @ 1:14 pm #
To the left a “lie” can be a blatant falsehood, an honest mistake, a difference of opinion or a fact they don’t like, so it is always good to be mindful that you’re dealing with children when the subject of Fox comes up.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 1:17 pm #
Not to burden Pablo, MikeT, but maybe don’t tug on the good man’s cape: He may just bury your sorry person with the ongoing litany of drive-by media lies, fabrications, mistakes, and yes, fauxtography. Remember that one? Er, seven or eight dozen?
Comment by geoffb on 11/12 @ 1:17 pm #
“Greatest speech Ever!!!!” Oh, wait wrong one, never mind.
Comment by meya on 11/12 @ 1:19 pm #
“Could any of the trolls give us ONE example when they disagreed with their liberal commentators? With Mo Dowd? With Obama?”
You are short of liberal complaints of Modo or obama? Really? What liberal blogs do you read?
Comment by Carin on 11/12 @ 1:22 pm #
I’ve never seen liberal comment criticizing MoDowd. The Obama criticism “IS” starting up, isn’t it?
LOL.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 1:23 pm #
“Of course this is the same blinkered idiot what believes any government with a Dee behind it is supremely pristine.”
Obama & Pelosi got ‘em some nutroot Goebbels’ don’t they?
New Czar comin’ up: “Minister of Public Enlightenment & Propaganda”
Sweet.
Comment by DarthRove on 11/12 @ 1:23 pm #
I have seen many disagreements from the MSM regarding Obama. They don’t think he’s leftwing enough. After all, Gitmo is still open, gays don’t have marriage in all 57 states, and peace hasn’t broken out all over.
Comment by Baracky on 11/12 @ 1:30 pm #
Because it says private giving could never replace current federal government programs.
Federal programs are notoriously inefficient, on the order of 30%, with the rest going to that great big voting machine called the bureaucracy. So find the appropriation, multiply by 0.30, and you’ll have the amount private charity needs to come up with to replace it.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/12 @ 1:41 pm #
If we’re all going to starve without Uncle Sugar slopping our troughs, why not have all our income confiscated in exchange for three hots and a cot?
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 1:45 pm #
Don’t give them any ideas, Jeffersonian.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 1:50 pm #
Looks like Obama is finally starting to unify America with his newest idea.
lmfao.
Comment by cranky-d on 11/12 @ 1:57 pm #
OT, but still part of progressive Utopia: If they cause my insurance to go from $300/month to $800/month, I will be filing for bankruptcy soon afterwards, and all that money I owe on my credit cards will never get paid. If my taxes go up significantly, the same thing will happen. How many other people would do the same? You think you have a credit crisis now, wait until you push a significant number of people over the brink.
If they have their way on taking much more money from people, they will see a crisis that makes our current one pale in comparison.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 2:00 pm #
I’ve been following the debate, sdferr, and its interesting to watch the guy strain language to avoid granting dicentra’s point. It’s almost as though the guy is emotionally invested in granting his opponents no moral quarter.
Incidentally, I’m not Abe Froman. But I wish I were.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 2:01 pm #
Wow.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 2:02 pm #
Already suggested that, Jeffersonian. snowjob fell silent, meaning that no lie sprang to mind and said mind probably locked a few cogs at the frappus progresso-disgronificator anode where it junctions to utter cognitive dissonance.
Give it a few seconds to jump the fuse with a national ID chip and restart the tape.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 2:10 pm #
Sorry about that mis-id Andrew, seems to me like that’s the second time I’ve done that recently. I must have a screw loose or a set of misfiring neurons or some’pin’ going on.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 2:22 pm #
“I must have a screw loose or a set of misfiring neurons or some’pin’ going on.”
Well then…
You obviously need government mandated health care my friend.
Take it, sir.
Or go to jail.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 2:28 pm #
Don’t know how that “go to jail” thing got left off my bucket list but I’ll be damned if I don’t write it in there tout de suite, LYBD.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/12 @ 2:37 pm #
Already suggested that, Jeffersonian. snowjob fell silent, meaning that no lie sprang to mind and said mind probably locked a few cogs at the frappus progresso-disgronificator anode where it junctions to utter cognitive dissonance.
Sorry, I didn’t have the stomach to read the entire thread. I wonder how this confiscation would work when we’re commanded to buy the Central State’s laundry list of must-haves like health insurance.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 2:40 pm #
One has to wonder if mandatory health insurance purchase will stand up to judicial scrutiny. I know that auto insurance slipped by, but the scope of the cost involved must inevitably provoke a court challenge.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 2:42 pm #
Since mikey t had such a hardon over Fox news, Here’s Sean Hannity acknolodging a apologizing for a mistake:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/12/video-hannity-apologizes-for-creative-editing/
Nice little zinger at the end, btw.
Not that mikey will get it.
Comment by cranky-d on 11/12 @ 2:43 pm #
#156: unbelievable. There is still hope out there.
Comment by ghost707 on 11/12 @ 2:45 pm #
There was an interesting discussion about trolls and what to do with them over at the Belmont Club.
One of the positive side effects was that the lurkers could see the battle being won by use of facts and reason, whereas the troll just shows up and takes a large dump on the carpet and calls it an argument; fooling no one.
Moderators can always just alter or delete troll posts, which is justified in my opinion, when the troll is engaged in nothing more than yelling “fire” in a crowded theater for his own amusement.
Altering their posts can be very effective I believe, since most of them suffer from ADD and will give up the fight moving on to easier blog targets.
Comment by Makewi on 11/12 @ 2:47 pm #
False dicotomy, and the “clearly states” is abject bullshit. People with lower tax burdens have more resources with which to help the poor. And in turn, helping the poor can then further lower one’s tax burden.
It’s fair to mention that “poor” in this instance is a stand in for whatever group of people is up for some government largess. More, the meaning of “help” is not fixed, and often means do something regardless of outcome.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 2:49 pm #
cranky-d, Pres. Bush just gave his first public address at Presidential center established in his name at SMU. It ended only a few minutes ago but will be up on the C-Span site a bit later (I missed it, dang-it.)
Comment by Makewi on 11/12 @ 2:51 pm #
Face it, without government programs, poor Americans would be starving in the streets.
A lie. No surprise there. If you are starving in America it is because you aren’t trying at all. The food pantries and soup kitchens are mostly run by religious organizations and non profits, not government.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 2:55 pm #
Federal programs are notoriously inefficient
Really?
Social Security’s overhead cost is less than 1%.
Please point out a private charity that comes close to that.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 2:56 pm #
ean Hannity acknolodging a apologizing for a mistake:
I heard about his error on the radio this morning, and wondered if he would own up to it. I decided as I walked to my car that if he did, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. And I don’t like Hannity at all.
Comment by Makewi on 11/12 @ 3:03 pm #
Social Security’s overhead cost is less than 1%.
It is amazing how little the truth means to you. The overhead is so low because many of the costs things like fund collection, are handled by other areas of government. Your lies aren’t even creative, so what’s in it for you?
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 3:06 pm #
It’s like the guy has no experience at all dealing with the government.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 3:07 pm #
Aside from the snoho implication that SS admin are supernatural in a world of mortals, SS is itself fourteen trillion dollars upside down.
Please point out a private anything that comes close to that.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 11/12 @ 3:17 pm #
“It’s like the guy has no experience at all dealing with the government.”
The “guy” has never paid taxes north of a 15% bracket. If he’s paid taxes at all. Christ, he’s prolly still claimed as a dependent.
#173 JHo – Perfection. Game. Set. Match.
To borrow from the Clash:
Obama was a bankrobber
But he never hurt nobody
He just loved to live that way
And he loved to steal your money
Comment by ghost707 on 11/12 @ 3:29 pm #
Ok, snowcone has to be somebody’s sock puppet. Not even a ten tear old is that uninformed.
Like watching a star go supernova and collapsing into a black hole of stupid.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 3:46 pm #
1% of what?
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 3:55 pm #
Omg, dicentra’s debate partner in the Pub is getting flat out hilarious:
She has requested it remain a one on one affair, so I will stay out of it over there, but that little gem was just too good not to share.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 4:00 pm #
I wasn’t going to say anything, but the distinction in that particular Manichean duality (propaganda v. “advocacy journalism”) is so thin that it calls Kate Moss “porky”.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 11/12 @ 4:03 pm #
“Comment by meya on 11/12 @ 3:17 pm #
“Nice little zinger at the end, btw.”
The ‘inadvertent’ part. That was good.”
Um, no.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the sound of a point zooming over a moron’s head.
Comment by JD on 11/12 @ 4:05 pm #
I cannot wait to see it try to justify that 1% asspull.
BMoe – the obtuse is strong with that one.
Comment by SBP on 11/12 @ 5:14 pm #
#146: Yeah, it’s starting to dawn on even the dumbest SFAG types that Obama isn’t actually going to pay their student loans and provide them with free gas and mortgage payments. Expect a poor turnout for the Neofascist ticket next fall.
#156, #167: those Hillbuzz guys are about one Plastic Jesus outrage away from coming over to our side. They’ve already said that they’ll support Palin over Presentdent Zero, should she run. Good writing over there in general.
(Oh, I forgot: I’m supposed to hate gay people. Strike the above from the record, if you would.)
Comment by Blitz on 11/12 @ 5:17 pm #
SBP? You are hereby condemned shunned and discarded from the “we who hate gays” party. Let that be a lesson to you all. NEVER stray from the proggies perception of this here intertube blog thingy.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 5:21 pm #
outlaw for real now
Comment by Blitz on 11/12 @ 5:24 pm #
Did y’all read the comments over at hillbuzz? I kinda think that there are new converts to the “right” side.
Or at least some actual thinking people, unlike other sites I could name.
Comment by Kresh on 11/12 @ 5:42 pm #
Yes, because somebody with a daily “Worst Person in the World” piece is obviously a serious journalist who’s advocacy we should pay attention to.
*facepalm*
Comment by SBP on 11/12 @ 5:43 pm #
SBP? You are hereby condemned shunned and discarded from the “we who hate gays” party.
You must be mistaken. I’ve never been a Democrat or a Communist. :-)
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 5:53 pm #
Quite a revelation to the SFAG’s that in the era of forced med insurance and the general culling of the patient herd, stuff costs a pile all of a sudden. Not unlike all the pre-Saddam Democrat war cries and the Democrat history on racism, it kinda conflicts the narrative.
Watching real-world, real-time Marxism dawn on a a leftist is worth a batch of fresh popcorn. And the big one is always money.
Comment by donald on 11/12 @ 5:55 pm #
Speaking of Utopia, I was walking through the 1st floor lobby of the Sheraton Atlanta Hotel about 2 hours ago through a gaggle of feminists (It’s a convention, I ain’t judging), look at this crowd of womyns’s to the left, and could have sworn I saw Angela Davis (‘ve seen pictures in the last couple of years, that gap man)… which I did. There was like a cacklin, kinda oozing something going on. Kind of a hate thing. Me, I’m just a hack walking through indian territory. She’s giving a keynote address there. I’ve spoken to several people of different ages since I left, and none, not one, not any of my friens, or people I think are pretty sharp had any idea who I was talking about. Just sayin.
Comment by Blitz on 11/12 @ 6:09 pm #
SBP? You have been duly reported to the UN committie for Global comity.
Please report to Turtle Bay,NY, sublevel 10 for your immediate debriefing and deportment to Belgium
Once again ? Let this be a lesson to you ALL. PROPGS contro; the intratube thingss, we know who you are and where you are(except when we don’t then allah help your family)
Comment by Blitz on 11/12 @ 6:09 pm #
oops
Comment by Blitz on 11/12 @ 6:10 pm #
donald? Brain bleach helps I’ve heard?
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 6:10 pm #
“I saw Angela Davis”
does she still have an afro?
link
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 6:13 pm #
i wonder why angela ain’t a czar:
“Davis was an activist during the Civil Rights Movement and a candidate for the U.S. Vice Presidency on the Communist Party ticket. Since leaving the Communist Party, she has identified herself as a democratic socialist.”
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 6:17 pm #
I notice that dicentra has introduced the concept of false consciousness into her exchange with dpleasant in the Pub. I wonder how things would go if they were to explore in place of the loaded political construct false consciousness the underlying concept of ordinary consciousness instead? Too sciencey, do you think?
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 6:27 pm #
Hey, suppose I do 5 years for the unpatriotic crime of not having health insurance. While that’s very fair, how much does it cost?
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 6:30 pm #
And how much will the jury trial cost?
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 6:31 pm #
However much it may cost (an arm and a leg? [channeling Putney Swope]) Pablo, it’ll be worth it.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 6:33 pm #
Not even a ten tear old is that uninformed.
It’s always worth a chuckle when a Glenn Beck zombie calls someone uninformed.
If you don’t believe Social Security’s overhead is only 1%, could one of you super-geniuses tell us what the accepted Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh Social Security’s overhead percent is?
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 6:38 pm #
Pablo, see any foreshadowing? :
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 6:40 pm #
What the fuck are you talking about? What are you calling “overhead”, and what is it only 1% of?
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 6:42 pm #
The Social Security fund is fourteen trillion dollars upside down, snowy. The source would be the US Federal Reserve.
Comment by Blitz on 11/12 @ 6:42 pm #
Good point Pablo. What I’m wondering? When is everyone going to wake up? I mean, it’s started, but the ones that really need to wake up and see the COST are the same damned ones that voted for Precedent Zero.
I spend a LOT of time with High school kids ( my daughters friends) And they are still convinced that bucky O’zero is still the messiah. So no hope w/ the “yutes”. You live in Ma., you know how it is.
My customers? even the illegals are getting it, so there’s hope there, but seniors are actually BUYING this crap. Again, this is my customer base, so its a VERY small sample in a very large town in MA.
Gold, guns, canned food, water and guts for 2012.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 6:46 pm #
“When is everyone going to wake up?”
Here’s one for you Blitz, dealing with just that question. Some evidently never may wake up, even when they fully understand they’ve been had.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 6:47 pm #
The Social Security fund is fourteen trillion dollars upside down, snowy. The source would be the US Federal Reserve.
Haha, dodging the question?
How typical.
Comment by ghost707 on 11/12 @ 6:48 pm #
The folks over at hillbuzz do have their own plastic jesus, actually a pair of them: the Clintons.
They explain away Bill’s despicable use of the teabag label by way of being tough love for the bourgeois class; sure he thinks you all are scumbags, but it’s just to make you tougher! See, all is well…look bunnies!
The only reason they are tuned into to our side of the aisle is because Obama used voter fraud against the Clintons!
How can Obama have won through voter fraud when we Clintonistas are the experts at it?!! How could this have happened?!
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 6:50 pm #
Actually, snojob, the “question” you inferred was that SS was efficiently run. Fourteen trillion dollars say, er, typical.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 6:58 pm #
Actually, snojob, the “question” you inferred was that SS was efficiently run.
I said it’s overhead rate is 1%.
Do you have a different, relevant, number, JHo?
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:00 pm #
Would that be one percent of fourteen trillion dollars, snoload? Or do you have a, different, relevant, number,?
Comment by Bernie Madoff on 11/12 @ 7:01 pm #
I was so impressed with Social Securities efficiency, I modeled my investment company after it.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/12 @ 7:02 pm #
Really?
Social Security’s overhead cost is less than 1%.
Please point out a private charity that comes close to that.
Yeah, really. You’re moving the goalposts again, Snowy. We’re talking about means-tested things like AFDC, WIC, Food Stamps, HUD, etc. where poverty relief is the objective, not just sending a check to an address because someone has turned 65. And those programs are tremendously inefficient, on the order of 30%.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 7:02 pm #
“what the accepted Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh Social Security’s overhead percent is?”
axs bernie madoff
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 7:03 pm #
Its underfoot rate is negative eleventy bazzion percent.
Prove that wrong, tough guy!
Comment by Blitz on 11/12 @ 7:05 pm #
Hmmm…NOT sure I should be talking to you SBP, I mean after all? The intranettuby thingy is full of like, folks who get free stuff and shit, AND you’ve been thrown out of the party, but?
I’ve seen that. What strikes me most is CON MAN. I saw it, you saw it, hell, even THEY saw it. And yet?
We have what we have. This is not the beginning of the end of the US ( That started w/ T Roo) but the end of the end.
Full disclosure. I am a birther. ONLY because I want to see all documents relating to his birth, his high school transcripts, his college transcripts, his voting record in the ILL senate….ANYTHING. Shit, a copy of his drivers licence would do.
Anyhoo, We’ve seen he can’t speak w/o a teleprompter. I saw his speech tonight, he fumbled names left and right. Weve seen that he votes “present” on even the most important issues( Today, reject all) and we’ve seen his Chicago style politics vis a vi the banks.
Problem is? THEY don’t see it!! All I can hope for is a low voter turnout in 2010.
Comment by Rusty on 11/12 @ 7:05 pm #
I for one hope that snowy aquires gainful employment rather soon, because I’m getting ready to retire and I’m looking fiorward to my check.
Oh,my. You don’t suppose snowy actually believes that there’s actual money in the Social Security lock box? That would be too funny.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 7:07 pm #
Isn’t 14 trillion relevant?
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:08 pm #
It’s yet to dawn on snotty what money is, much less if fourteen trillion negative units of it matter, Pablo.
Ask me how I know.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 7:10 pm #
Has anyone ever attempted to calculate the cost in labor, paper, record keeping, banking, money transfers, etc., etc., that business and every other enterprise contributes [uncompensated] by legal mandate in processing Social Security tax for the government?
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:11 pm #
Good question, sdferr. Another is the same one applied to the personal income tax.
I bet it runs on 1% too.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 7:13 pm #
The Fair Tax folks did a bunch of research on that. Don’t know if any of it is available on the web, but the results are mind numbing.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:14 pm #
But them be jobs, B Moe, jobs.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 7:15 pm #
That is why I kept asking him to define overhead and specify 1% of what. If you include all the bureaucracies including the IRS, and what it costs private business, it is going to be 1% of a big fucking number.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 7:17 pm #
We’re talking about means-tested things like AFDC, WIC, Food Stamps, HUD, etc. where poverty relief is the objective, not just sending a check to an address because someone has turned 65. And those programs are tremendously inefficient, on the order of 30%.
According to this article, Texas’ disgrace of a Food Stamp program dispenses $4 billion worth of aid with an overhead of $346 million.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/101209dntexfoodstamps.3f85eae.html
$346 million / $4 billion = 8.65% overhead rate.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:17 pm #
Wonder if snotty can contrast the velocity of money with the velocity of debt for us…
Comment by royf on 11/12 @ 7:19 pm #
Snowcone name me ONE socialist/communist utopia which manages to feed the world to the extent that the USA does. They don’t exist because that isn’t their priority, They are very prolific at murdering people however. What is the communist/fascist/socialist death toll from the twentieth century?
Let see Hitler was responsible for what 40 million or so, then we had Stalin and he was good for what another 20 million or so. Of course then we have the Great Mao and the number I see most relating to him is what 90 million? And that doesn’t even begin to cover all the small mass murderers like Castro or Pol Pot or Ho Chi Min.
So we are talking anywhere from 175 to 200 million dead because of the ideology which you find so compelling. They aren’t into feeding the hungry snowcone.
Its easy to see what you believe total lies about conservative when your so easily fooled. Your just not very bright and your mommy just hasn’t told you.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 7:19 pm #
“legal mandate in processing Social Security tax for the government?”
si senor
Comment by geoffb on 11/12 @ 7:20 pm #
Should be some new federal positions opening up after the purge is done. Payback in a few years should open up a huge number of jobs then too. Chicago!!!!!
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:21 pm #
Bully for food stamps, eh snotty?
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 7:21 pm #
Okay, the jokes on us after all. Snowcone has to be a fucking satire.
Can’t be serious.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 7:21 pm #
“$346 million / $4 billion = 8.65% overhead rate.”
no wealth created in the transaction
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 7:22 pm #
Did Snowcone just accuse someone of dodging the question? Did that really happen?
Why don’t you assholes ever tell me when it’s opposite day?
Comment by ghost707 on 11/12 @ 7:22 pm #
Snowcone,
we are laughing at you because you know you can’t prove that stupid 1% overhead bullshit number.
If you could, you would have already done it.
Next court jester please, snowcone has beheaded himself.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:26 pm #
lol, ghost.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 7:28 pm #
I mean, it’s not like snowboy just completely ignored the argument that Social Security has no overhead because all its overhead is done by other government agencies.
I mean, someone has to design and print those lovely statements we get every year, but what the hell else do they do?
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 7:36 pm #
Snowcone name me ONE socialist/communist utopia which manages to feed the world to the extent that the USA does.
If you subtract the multi-billion dollar bribes we pay to Israel and Egypt each year and the money paid to war profiteers, America’s level of foreign aid is pretty pathetic.
we are laughing at you because you know you can’t prove that stupid 1% overhead bullshit number.
Oh, dear, this reminds me of when resident military genius RTO was clueless about how many additional troops Obama had sent to Afghanistan until he had his nose rubbed in it over and over.
Here’s one link:
The attendant investment fees alone would be enormous–certainly higher than the minimal 1 percent overhead costs the current Social Security system consumes.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050103/scheer1221
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:36 pm #
Maybe they invest like wizards, Andrew. You know, because the inflation-adjusted stock market lost 8 percent in the last decade while a little metal disc made about 300% in inflated dollars lying in the drawer.
snowy believes in government. That could be why.
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 7:42 pm #
In other words, snocone, show your work or shut the fuck up. 1%? Prove it.
You come here spewing bullshit and when your BS is pointed out to be, in fact, BS, you simply ignore it and move on to the next non sequitur.
You are a simpleton, a mindless repeater of propaganda, you miserable vomitus mass. You are a boil on the ass of the body politic. Never in your putrid excuse of an existence has it ever occured to you that you should argue in good faith. No, you are a miserable excuse for a human being, a paragon of public education.
You, sir, are a simpering idiot, devoid of all critical thought. In other words, a prog.
Now, go get your fuckin shine box.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:42 pm #
Hilarious article, snotty, even aside from there being no documentation of your claim.
But this part works for me:
Heh. “Will begin”?
Let me do you a favor: You have insufficient comprehension for what it is you think you want to do.
Comment by royf on 11/12 @ 7:45 pm #
If you subtract the multi-billion dollar bribes we pay to Israel and Egypt each year and the money paid to war profiteers, America’s level of foreign aid is pretty pathetic.
Fuck you snowcone I said name me one country which matches our foreign aid, especially our food aid. I already said I don’t give a rats ass about your stupid opinions. I want the list which as you know doesn’t exist does it snowcone?
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 7:47 pm #
LMFAO!
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 7:49 pm #
You really don’t have a fucking clue how shit works, do you?
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 7:50 pm #
especially our food aid
Gotta dump that government-subsidized Red State grown crap somewheres.
There’s no market for it here.
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 7:53 pm #
The Nation? Seriously? what, you couldn’t find a link to Mother Jones?
Oh, dear, this reminds me of when resident military genius RTO was clueless about how many additional troops Obama had sent to Afghanistan until he had his nose rubbed in it over and over.
And once again you beclown yourself. Your BS was called out numerous times on that thread and true to form, you moved the goal posts. I know that math is hard, snocone, but you do know the meaning of the word “Double?” I guess I shouldn’t be too hard on you. As the number was greater than twenty, removing your shoes was of no help.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 7:55 pm #
You deal in projection and symptom, meya. When the checks run out, then you and snotty may grasp how neither matter. Try the last few paragraphs of this. Can you grasp it?
See, meya, constitutionality exists for a reason. You fail the test not because you can’t twist words or find confirming opinion, but because you don’t respect the premise. You can’t.
I have to wonder, intermittently, what it must be like to be that dishonest.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 7:56 pm #
“There’s no market for it here.”
you don’t like ethanol mandates? you be killing the planet axs van johns
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/12 @ 7:59 pm #
According to this article, Texas’ disgrace of a Food Stamp program dispenses $4 billion worth of aid with an overhead of $346 million.
One program, one state, ignores the federal bureaucracy.
From testimony by Michael Tanner of the Cato Institute before Congress, 1995.
Comment by meya on 11/12 @ 8:00 pm #
Here it is:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2009/11/constitutionality-of-individual-health.html
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 8:01 pm #
or is it jones. he be jones for marxist spleef>
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/12 @ 8:02 pm #
Not that that I’d go so far as to distrust that rock-ribbed treasure of objectivity, The Nation, but any chance that your source has a source and isn’t, you know, pulling that figure out of his ass?
Just askin’.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 8:02 pm #
What does this sound like?
I don’t really understand the reluctance to accuse them of “Emanualism”, because if such a word really exists that is exactly what it is.
Comment by meya on 11/12 @ 8:04 pm #
“Try the last few paragraphs of this. Can you grasp it?”
Is that guy comparing 30 year bond yields in nominal terms? Can you grasp how smart that makes his argument look?
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 8:04 pm #
“I take the view that this is a fairly unremarkable exercise of Congress’s power to tax income for regulatory purposes, and that it is also within Congress’s power to regulate insurance markets under the Commerce Clause.”
the dude is pro slavery like the rest of the proggs.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 8:08 pm #
“under the Commerce Clause.””
ain’t that nice put me jail for not buying your worthless gov’t policy but don’t give me the freedom to buy a policy from another entity in another state. you proggs are assholes.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 8:10 pm #
That’s cute and all, meya, but we know better. Or, I do.
Remember when Ric got into me about money? Apparently he never caught that the issue with the current system — which goes to why you’re so persistently pointless about it — is that it is always gamed. The way this game turns out will surely lose you your liberty. It’s not the money, it’s the system that first preys on it and then comes for you.
That is the problem with systems, not money. It’s a problem with morality, and that is where you and I part company.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 8:13 pm #
I am supposed to take this seriously? That the New Deal somehow magically amended the Constitution?
Comment by Darleen on 11/12 @ 8:18 pm #
Snotty,
Your threadjacking is hereby stopped. Either immediately source your 1% claim with appropriate, independent authoritative links or each subsequent comment in this thread will be deleted.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 8:20 pm #
The Chinese have been taking logic lessons from meya and Snowcone.
Snort.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 8:21 pm #
Not the New Deal, B Moe. Subsequent legal precedent. One day soon the body of law will obsolete the Constitution.
Questioning this eventuality meya finds delightful, the same meya who reverses “nominal” to disguise an inherently unstable, compounding system in an exhibition of irony taken to a simply delightfully dishonest extreme.
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 8:24 pm #
How will the Presendent’s supporters react when the Dalai Lama eschews any meeting with his holiness B. Hussein Obama? Somehow I don’t reckon the Lama will be receiving the kudos to which he has become accustomed.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 8:29 pm #
Stare decisis has limits, bad law is bad law, and all office holders take an oath to uphold the Constitution, not the judicial record or whatever the fuck it is called.
As you point out above, it is fundamentally a matter of honesty. Are you honest, or a perpetuater of lies?
Comment by ghost707 on 11/12 @ 8:30 pm #
Poor snowcone,
his tiny fists banging away at his keyboard, bringing Google’s server farm to it’s knees in search of something, anything to use.
All those big numbers over at CIA factbook making his eyes bleed. Gah! Reality!
How can snowcone rid himself of that meddlesome reality?!
Oh yeah, snowcone, like Big D said, go get your fuckin’ shine box.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 8:31 pm #
Foolish little churl. Somebody might waste their time reminding you that the money men are after money.
When you stop lying to yourself and see just how they are doing this thing, then you’ll also likely be past the point where thanks — more of a baleful regret by then — will mean anything at all.
Comment by SBP on 11/12 @ 8:39 pm #
Can you grasp how smart
You’re not qualified to judge the intelligence of others, SFAG.
Hint: regurgitating communist boilerplate doesn’t make you “smart”, no matter what you’ve been told.
Smart people don’t have to lie to win arguments.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 8:41 pm #
“But are you sure this is a federal prohibition, not one that individual states make? Like, can Texas allow MA insurance to be sold there?”
axs geico for health insurance if you live fla and the co. in ca?
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 8:43 pm #
“It was only then that I began to feel the slightest bit fearful. When they were wearing their red shirts – how appropriate – and with cops around, everything was cool. But when the shirts came off, I could see them for what they really were: common street thugs, the dregs of society. I couldn’t wait to get out of there.
And to cap the ACORN protest day, one stated, “Go back to your mansion!” It was at that moment that I wished I had a mansion, with gates. Just like the typical L.A. liberals who live in Bel-Air, support ACORN and would call the cops if they ever saw them in their neighborhoods.
As we headed back to our cars, Gary H. was shaking. I asked if he was OK. He said he had to play me the audio of one of the protesters that he recorded before we got there. We decided to go to a restaurant to have lunch to listen to the interview.
We did. And it’s amazing. The woman on the tape proudly confesses to things that are unethical, illegal or both. You’ll hear it tomorrow.”
link
Comment by SBP on 11/12 @ 8:44 pm #
Also, smart people can smell the stench from that pile of one hundred million dead bodies your philosophy has piled up over the last century or so and figure out that your system just doesn’t work.
Oh, but THIS time it’ll be different. Oh, yes. SMART people like SFAG and Rilly Dumb will be at the helm.
Like fun you will.
Useful idiots such as yourself are always the first ones sent to the camps once your utility is at an end, SFAG.
Comment by SBP on 11/12 @ 8:46 pm #
I don’t think it is magic
You don’t think at all, SFAG.
You emote and regurgitate.
Comment by B Moe on 11/12 @ 8:46 pm #
262 meya, try to keep up.
Comment by SBP on 11/12 @ 8:47 pm #
BTW, did Plastic Jesus pay your student loans yet?
Must’ve slipped his mind. I’m sure he’ll get around to it ANY DAY now.
Heh.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 8:49 pm #
Another irony concerns meya’s clumsy gamesmanship: meya has at it’s rhetorical disposal the single most damning indictment of the great American corporate machine, although it must involve a co-indictment of the federal government and its monetary system.
Isn’t this the stuff of delirious leftist rhetorical fantasy? Isn’t this at worst crunchy conservativism and at best, full-on, gooey moonbat paranoia? Leaving this out of play means that meya’s game blows chunks.
That argumentative asset that meya leaves untouched is how the US moves economically overseas and just how damaging those motions are. No, it’s not Nick Cage’s arms-running or DiCaprio’s blood diamonds, but it is entirely real and the stakes are as big as they get. If there is a legitimate reason Why They Hate Us™, that is it.
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 8:50 pm #
Heh; and 259…
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 8:53 pm #
“But that doesn’t tell me whether it is a federal or a state prohibition. ”
HELLo “commerce clause”
Comment by JHo on 11/12 @ 8:53 pm #
Religion. As in: Word, yo! Teh Living Jurisprudence.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 8:55 pm #
allah meya your are an idiot with too much paper
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 8:56 pm #
or maybe you are
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 8:56 pm #
“Stare decisis has limits, bad law is bad law, and all office holders take an oath to uphold the Constitution, not the judicial record or whatever the fuck it is called.”
Do you really believe this? Because OMFG is all.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/12 @ 9:01 pm #
Do you really believe this? Because OMFG is all.
Any sane person believes it, cynn. Or maybe Plessy should have stood?
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 9:02 pm #
“Do you really believe this? Because OMFG is all.”
roll it back to the founding. start over so dred scott isn’t the proggs/demorats first thing to do
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 9:07 pm #
I admit, I’m not a legal scholar like y’all, just had Civics in highschool. But if anyone can defy a court ruling on a whim and not get into some litigation, I’d like to know how. We’re the 3rd branch of gov’t, and unless the laws are amended, we prevail.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 11/12 @ 9:07 pm #
Uh-roh. cynn said omfg. Box up a new wine. Pronto.
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 9:11 pm #
Any sane person believes it, cynn. Or maybe Plessy should have stood?
Ouch.
Here is one for meya: Can you come up with anything, product or service, tangible or intangible, that would not be subject to the whims of Congress under the commerce clause?
That the New Deal somehow magically amended the Constitution?
Nope. But it fundamentally changed the relationship between the government and the citezenry. Never let a good crisis go to waste, right?
One other thought exercise for meya. From the time you wake up in the morning until you rest your weary head at night, everything you do, everything, is taxed. Name one activity that isn’t. Think hard, meya. There isn’t one.
This is why the country is waking up. The founders had a vision of what America should be and THIS IS NOT IT!
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 9:13 pm #
Unfortunately, I cannot reveal the delivery address. So it’s on you, to you. Skoal!
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/12 @ 9:16 pm #
We’re the 3rd branch of gov’t, and unless the laws are amended, we prevail.
And which law was it, exactly, that made the judicial branch superior to the other two?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 11/12 @ 9:17 pm #
But if anyone can defy a court ruling on a whim and not get into some litigation, I’d like to know how.
Take it away, Andy Jackson!
Comment by McGehee on 11/12 @ 9:22 pm #
Getting into litigation is like war: there are things that are far worse.
Generations of bad law, for example.
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 9:22 pm #
Yawn. The landscape changed after Plessy, and will continue to do so, much to your angst.
So what should the country be, Big D, beside a bunch of chattering hunchbacks huddled by our hearths whilst attending our tatting?
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 9:27 pm #
So what should the country be, Big D, beside a bunch of chattering hunchbacks huddled by our hearths whilst attending our tatting?
Now that wasn’t the question was it, cynn? Don’t hurt yourself now. Some of those strawmen can get a bit heavy.
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 9:31 pm #
Jeffersonian: I thought it was an ennumerated power in the Constitution, but I’ll have to check my booklet which is at work. If I’m wrong, my bad; I’ll admit it.
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 9:35 pm #
Boning?
In a house? Property tax
Lights on – Energy excise tax
Lights off – Energy excise tax – You’re heating your house right?
In a car – Sales tax on the purchase of the car, gas tax
On a park bench – Property tax paying for the park, gas tax to get there
Anywhere else – Sales tax on the prophylactic, plus the tax on the booze
Just a few examples, meya. Want to try again?
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 9:35 pm #
OOps, enumerate.
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 9:38 pm #
Here’s a hint, meya. There is nothing that the government, be it local, state, or federal doesn’t touch. It’s been a long time in the making, but here we are.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 9:39 pm #
“States make rules, and the commerce clause gives the feds the power to make some other rules too”
like grow your own grain. fuck you meya:
“A farmer, Roscoe Filburn, was growing wheat to feed his chickens. The U.S. government had imposed limits on wheat production based on acreage owned by a farmer, in order to drive up wheat prices during the Great Depression, and Filburn was growing more than the government’s scheme permitted. Filburn was ordered to destroy his crops and pay a fine to the government for being too productive.
The Supreme Court, interpreting the United States Constitution’s Commerce Clause (which permits the United States Congress to “regulate Commerce . . . among the several States”) decided that, because Filburn’s wheat growing activities reduced the amount of wheat he would buy for chicken feed on the open market, and because wheat was traded nationally, Filburn’s production of more wheat than he was allotted was affecting interstate commerce, and so could be regulated by the federal government.
This was a dramatic reversal of over 150 years of prior decisions (“precedent”) “
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 9:46 pm #
Yes, Big D, the courts have the ultimate authority. So shut the fuck up. Good night and thank you.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 9:47 pm #
ronnie 1980:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmgVFByeaI
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 9:47 pm #
So what was the sovereign again?
Comment by ghost707 on 11/12 @ 9:49 pm #
Litigation, smitigation,
Obama installed a nifty Acme shredder in his office some time back, he threw these two monstrous documents (I think one said GM and the other Chrysler, they were the size of a New York phone directory)into that shredder and poof! They didn’t just shred, those documents disappeared with barely a sound.
The lamestream media blinked a couple of times then went on to report that the emperor just wears different clothes, he’s not really naked.
Comment by Snowcone on 11/12 @ 9:52 pm #
You come here spewing bullshit and when your BS is pointed out to be, in fact, BS, you simply ignore it and move on to the next non sequitur.
Yeah, ask RTO about that.
Here’s some more proof for you Glenn Beck fans.
If you can’t do the math yourselves…have your children help you out (unless they’re home schooled, of course).
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2009/II_cyoper.html#94983
Total expenditures in 2008 – $625.1 billion
Administrative expenses – $5.7 billion
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 9:53 pm #
Yes, Big D, the courts have the ultimate authority. So shut the fuck up. Good night and thank you.
That didn’t take long. Good night, cynn.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/12 @ 9:54 pm #
The point is that progressives and their economically ignorant utopian policies are the enemy of liberty I think. Progressives like the little president man, for example.
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 9:58 pm #
And what little president man is preferable, do you suppose?
Comment by cynn on 11/12 @ 10:01 pm #
Or would you rather have a heaving sweaty masculine stallion?
Comment by sdferr on 11/12 @ 10:01 pm #
“…the courts have the ultimate authority…”
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/12 @ 10:04 pm #
I dunno.
Comment by happyfeet on 11/12 @ 10:05 pm #
It’s time to bring in the turtles.
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 10:28 pm #
Ok yeah everything in taxed.
That’s the point, meya. You have to think long and hard to find anything that isn’t subject taxation. How far we have come from rebelling against a tiny little tax on tea. That you would cast aside any observation of said taxation says much about you. Perhaps Spies is right.
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 10:31 pm #
Yeah, ask RTO about that.
Next time I see him I will. As I recall you came out of that little fracas looking like the jackass you are.
Comment by Pablo on 11/12 @ 10:35 pm #
Yeah, now we’ve got teabaggers. Funny how that works ain’t it?>
Comment by Big D on 11/12 @ 10:42 pm #
Snocone, google P&L. Anyone that tells you that they can run a business at 1% overhead is either lying or subsidized. I’ll leave it up to you to figure out which.
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 10:44 pm #
“I’m waiting for the day when you first go off and read about the “dormant commerce clause.” That one will blow your mind.”
i’m waiting for parasite aka leftists to be shot in their zombie head
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 10:46 pm #
major hasan shoot obama followers
Comment by newrouter on 11/12 @ 10:50 pm #
please shoot leftists and islamist with boogers
Comment by ghost707 on 11/12 @ 11:36 pm #
Now I see where Snowcone got his Enron accounting from (although it his not his fault) it is the Government playing hide-the-debt.
If you will all take a look at the back of your Social Security cards, it says Department of Health and Human Services on it.
Now take a look at this nightmare:
HHS
You don’t have to slog through the whole thing, just notice on the charts how much and how fast all the various budget increases grow.
Nifty that they account for pay raises in there as well.
Comment by MikeT on 11/13 @ 12:40 am #
You might like to know that the health insurance policy that covers the employees of the Republican National Convention (RNC) provides insurance for elective abortions and this policy has been in effect since 1991.
Comment by RIP Ford on 11/13 @ 1:19 am #
Big whoop. Got anymore recently found shiny objects you want to share?
Comment by donald on 11/13 @ 5:38 am #
It’s like a loose afro kinda deal, not like back in the day (Angela Davis’ hair).
Comment by B Moe on 11/13 @ 5:48 am #
Missing the point completely, Cynn. I am talking about Judges overturning prior rulings if they were bad decisions. In happens in appeals courts all the time, think of it as a way of appealing past decisions in front of current judges.
Comment by SBP on 11/13 @ 6:53 am #
Poor SFAG.
Comment by Carin on 11/13 @ 7:10 am #
Oh I see how you are defining this. Ok yeah everything in taxed. Even if it was all simplified and we just had one simple flat tax on incomes — or a VAT on expenditures, or even just a property tax — then you could still claim that all activities were taxed, since we needed to spend money to engage in them, or did them on property
It’s not in the definition, Meya. The government has decided it’s their JOB to find new and ever more complicated ways to extract our money from us. New taxes are all the rage, and they’ve piled up so high and deep that most of us have NO IDEA what percentage of our money goes, in one way or another, directly to the government.
I told my husband I was going to add up ever “tax” I paid for this year, and he advised against it. Said I would be too depressed.
The government doesn’t want to go to a flat tax, because the rate they would find acceptable would simply be appalling to just about every American (who pays taxes) and every elected official would be out on their ass.
Obama and his minions are working to make the situation WORSE.
Line in the sand is drawn. I will go NO FURTHER.
I’m not fucking kidding.
Comment by Carin on 11/13 @ 7:11 am #
I want government employee unemployment.
Comment by Carin on 11/13 @ 7:14 am #
If you can’t do the math yourselves…have your children help you out (unless they’re home schooled, of course
Color me SHOCKED. Snowcow is a toadie of the NEA.
Comment by B Moe on 11/13 @ 7:16 am #
It’s called embedded taxes, the hidden taxes in consumer goods that gets passed on to you. The Fair Tax research estimates it at around 40% on average.
Comment by B Moe on 11/13 @ 7:17 am #
Says the moron who can’t multiply by two.
Comment by Carin on 11/13 @ 7:33 am #
Not just the embeded tax. I mean, adding up all the sales tax and “fees” (which are really taxes) ….licenses, etc. Taxes on gas. Taxes on ciggs (neither of which you “see”).
All of it.
Comment by JHo on 11/13 @ 7:44 am #
According to the govt, it collects just under $35,000 per taxpayer a year while having already run up a debt of over $110,000 per taxpayer.
But they prolly do it with a 1% “overhead” or something.
Remember when the liberal fascists went around promoting Clinton’s single-handed budget balancing act? Me too.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 11/13 @ 8:00 am #
Total expenditures in 2008 – $625.1 billion
Administrative expenses – $5.7 billion
Bully for you, Snowboy. And, as has been pointed out twice, irrelevant, because most of what SSA does (collecting taxes and the like) is in fact done by other agencies.
That echo you keep hearing is all the points you continually ignore, while accusing us of same.
Comment by Bob Reed on 11/13 @ 8:10 am #
“That was ‘taxation without representation.’ And we still have that. No hurry to get rid of it either.”
No doubt a reference to DC; which was created as a federal district that was specifically stand alone so no one state would enjoy the prestige nor reap the financial benefits of the federal capitol being located there…
Well as a former DC resident all I have to say is this; if people don’t like it they should move to the nearby People’s Republic of Maryland or the great state of Virginia-they knew what they were getting into when they moved there, at least if they paid attention in civics class they did…
All of the DC statehod arguments boil down to two factors. The first is to ensure another permanently Democrat seat in the House and two in the Senate. The second is to ensure a minority presence in thise two houses as the district is overwhelmingly black, for now that is-the hispanics are becoming equally as populous…
And while many are professionals, the bulk of the DC population is there to suck on the teat of the federal government…
Your argument is transparent meya, just like your wanna-be-pithy response to my comment upthread…
If people in DC don’t like it, move somewhere else…It goes with the territory, otherwise amend the constitution, the proper way that is and not by any back door legislation…
Comment by JHo on 11/13 @ 8:16 am #
Bob, is there a legal term for recent law upending prior right? Besides “government”, I mean. There are countless laws on the books lying unchallenged that any reasonable mind would think were direct violations of the Bill of Rights.
In fact, I’ve witnessed entire court systems built on direct contravention of scores of precedents up into the 20th Century, not even going back to the Constitution. Seems anything whatsoever goes until somebody has a success in the SCOTUS. Legislative constitutional review is a joke.
Comment by Rusty on 11/13 @ 8:44 am #
Snocone is holding up Social Security as if it’s something the government does well. First principals snowy, first principals.
Comment by meya on 11/13 @ 8:51 am #
“The government has decided it’s their JOB to find new and ever more complicated ways to extract our money from us.
yeah but that doesn’t matter to BigD. BigD’s “everything is taxed” works with just a simple VAT or flat tax (of course it’s kind of misleading to say a “flat tax” is simple — the difficulty is in defining the taxable income, not in picking what rate to apply to what income — but lets just believe the flat taxers at their word.)
“Your argument is transparent meya, just like your wanna-be-pithy response to my comment upthread…”
The original “taxation without representation” argument was also transparent — you think colonists would be happy to be taxed with some representation in parliament. I mean, they did know they were going somewhere without representation…so they could just move…. Oh whatever. Too bad you don’t live there anymore — You could get one of their new license plates.
Comment by Carin on 11/13 @ 8:55 am #
yeah but that doesn’t matter to BigD. BigD’s “everything is taxed” works with just a simple VAT or flat tax (of course it’s kind of misleading to say a “flat tax” is simple — the difficulty is in defining the taxable income, not in picking what rate to apply to what income — but lets just believe the flat taxers at their word.)
That’s just wordplay Meya. A game I’m not interested in playing.
Comment by Bob Reed on 11/13 @ 9:06 am #
Nice try meya, but as usual it’s a fail all the way…
You’re attempt at a pithy and ironic scenario disregards an important difference between the original colonists decision to move here in sprite of the lack of representation and the evolution of their point of view, and the fact that there are perfectly viable areas outside of DC where people can live and enjoy representation like everyone else; it’s where your attempted analogy breaks down…
What you are also ignoring is that until the DC homerule charter went into effect in the 70’s the United States Congress enjoyed exclusive jurisdiction over the federal district in “all cases whatsoever” as granted by the US constitution. In that way Congress provides for certain aspects of governance to be carried out by the locally elected officials. However, congressional oversight of this local government still exists at a much higher level than would be allowed for any part of a state, and the District’s local government exists at the pleasure of Congress, and could theoretically be revoked at any time.
Nice try, but as usual your misinformed snark has crashed upon the rocks of stubborn fact and inconvenient truth…
Comment by Old Texas Turkey on 11/13 @ 9:19 am #
ya really can’t apply the business model to government, because government programs are not designed to produce revenue. Technically they are all 100% overhead. And in the case of SS, when what it is they are supposed to manage/tax/distribute is in negative arrears to the tune of $ then it is really an overhead of negative eleventy bazillion percent.
Perhaps the only example that is a direct comparison of apples to apples is Amtrak … take it away Snowcone.
Comment by B Moe on 11/13 @ 10:01 am #
Then why even bring it up?
Comment by B Moe on 11/13 @ 10:07 am #
One other point about DC, the founders never really expected anybody to actually live there.
Comment by JHo on 11/13 @ 12:06 pm #
That’s just Meya.
Comment by Bob Reed on 11/13 @ 1:01 pm #
“Constitutionally it still has it. It’s just somewhat delegated. Though I will say: there’s nothing in the constitution that says the constitutionally defined district has to have the same borders as it does now — other than the maximum size of 10 square miles. It could be something trivial in size — say the minimum patch of land to grab the whitehouse, congress and the supreme court, leaving the rest to be the state of Columbia. But that might be too much lefty black people for congress to handle.”
meya, that has been proposed repeatedly over the years, But both Maryland and Virginia don’t want the part sthat they would gain respectively. And the people there do get to vote in national Presidential elections…
Oh, and please refrain form the insinuations of racism, it’s untrue, petty, and altogether not amusing…
Comment by Rusty on 11/13 @ 1:02 pm #
you think colonists would be happy to be taxed with some representation in parliament.
Yes, because then it wouldn’t be arbitrary.
When congress gets together to discuss tax policy, they aren’t debating how much they are going to take. They are determining how much they are going to let you keep.
Comment by Bob Reed on 11/13 @ 1:58 pm #
Sophistry at best…
As always, I’ll leave it to you to come back later and get that all important, and unrefuted, last word in.
Comment by Rusty on 11/13 @ 2:32 pm #
346
Read a book on U.S. History sometime.That last one of yours was worthy of snocone.
Comment by Matt on 11/13 @ 2:41 pm #
Wow, a shot at homeschoolers ? I was a product of public school education and my math skills are admittedly questionable. My niece, who is 14, is home schooled and can run rings around me when it comes to math, science, grammar, history, etc. I can understand challenging home school on the grounds it doesn’t allow kids to become socialized like public school kids and doesn’t prepare them for the idiots they’ll face when they’re adults but if you’re implying the scholastic effect of homeschooling is somehow inferior to public school education, you’re out of your gourd.
Comment by Rusty on 11/13 @ 5:47 pm #
#350
Stir shit at your own house. Ignorant twat.