Obama dithers for weeks, talking with his Afghanistan Commanding General one time in 70 days. The US military is suffering casualities “in the deadliest assault against U.S. forces in more than a year” and what is The Once doing in the meantime?
According to sources close to the administration, Gen McChrystal shocked and angered presidential advisers with the bluntness of a speech given in London last week.The next day he was summoned to an awkward 25-minute face-to-face meeting on board Air Force One on the tarmac in Copenhagen, where the president had arrived to tout Chicago’s unsuccessful Olympic bid.
Because, heaven knows, the city of Chicago is more important than US military personnel.
In London, Gen McChrystal, who heads the 68,000 US troops in Afghanistan as well as the 100,000 Nato forces, flatly rejected proposals to switch to a strategy more reliant on drone missile strikes and special forces operations against al-Qaeda.He told the Institute of International and Strategic Studies that the formula, which is favoured by Vice-President Joe Biden, would lead to “Chaos-istan“.
When asked whether he would support it, he said: “The short answer is: No.”
He went on to say: “Waiting does not prolong a favorable outcome. This effort will not remain winnable indefinitely, and nor will public support.”
The remarks have been seen by some in the Obama administration as a barbed reference to the slow pace of debate within the White House.
Gen McChrystal delivered a report on Afghanistan requested by the president on Aug 31, but Mr Obama held only his second “principals meeting” on the issue last week.
He will hold at least one more this week, but a decision on how far to follow Gen McChrystal’s recommendation to send 40,000 more US troops will not be made for several weeks.
Why would Obama be so particularly upset with McChrystal’s plain speaking when Obama has been so … so … ostensibly non-committal to an Afghan strategy?
[Senior military figures] made no secret of their view that without the vast ground force recommended by Gen McChrystal, the Afghan mission could end in failure and a return to power of the Taliban.“They want to make sure people know what they asked for if things go wrong,” said Lawrence Korb, a former assistant secretary of defence.
Oh, bad McChrystal, depriving Obama of a new scapegoat as Blame BOOOOOSH is well past its expiration date!
Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 10:10 pm #
McChrystal’s speech came before the casualties.
So…kinda of a big stretch to say it’s a reaction.
Nice try though.
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 10/4 @ 10:15 pm #
From the article:
Ackerman takes a rather heterodox view of the constitution and its philosophical antecedents. Mr. Alex Spillius (author of the article) doesn’t tell us this, or link to anything that would contextualize Ackerman’s comments. It is precisely this kind of slight-of-hand that so undermines the public perception of the old media.
Comment by Darleen on 10/4 @ 10:16 pm #
those aren’t the only casualties suffered in Afghanistan since Jan 20 snotty
but I’ve correct the tense of my sentences to make it clearer
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 10/4 @ 10:16 pm #
Punctilious tendentiousness, thy name is Snowcone.
Comment by Pablo on 10/4 @ 10:17 pm #
Have we heard anything out of the Obama Administration about this little problem? Or is it back burnered along with Gen. McChrystal?
Maybe it’s time for another health insurance reform speech.
Comment by serr8d on 10/4 @ 10:19 pm #
Obama’s reaction to McChrystal is telling. Obama is such a mental midget on anything military, and he’s mad at the experts for pointing that out?
This isn’t going to turn out well for our troops and our military command structure. Because those concerns don’t do very well under ham-handed progg manipulations.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 10:22 pm #
Obama is such a mental midget on anything military
Lord knows information that can be mastered by someone with an I.Q. of 80 in a few weeks is beyond a Harvard law graduate.
Comment by serr8d on 10/4 @ 10:24 pm #
My god, is he really that stupid?
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 10/4 @ 10:25 pm #
Parsing and interpreting your commentary being the considerable task that it is, I wonder if you might be made to offer more specificity. Are you saying that military strategy is so facile that it can be mastered in a few weeks by someone with an IQ of 80?
Comment by geoffb on 10/4 @ 10:26 pm #
So two meetings in 70 days and one is to chew out the General for trying to do his best for his troops? Gawd, what a fubared admin.
Comment by geoffb on 10/4 @ 10:28 pm #
I think he is saying that an IQ of 80 is high for a Harvard Grad. I don’t think that is true but Obama may be the exception that tests the rule.
Comment by Pablo on 10/4 @ 10:30 pm #
Fortunately, Obama is not tasked with making sense of your babbling. He doesn’t need any more distractions.
Comment by Pablo on 10/4 @ 10:31 pm #
Can we get an IQ check on George Bush? Harvard MBA, right?
Comment by Darleen on 10/4 @ 10:32 pm #
malaclypse the tertiary
Snotcone is a military expert, don’t ya know? S/he was telling us on another thread that Afghanistan is already loss so time to come home. He said he read that in McCrystals report …
… using his ultra double-secret decoder ring with the invisible ink detector built in.
Comment by serr8d on 10/4 @ 10:33 pm #
Listen, you sub-human, Harvard Law doesn’t teach you anything except how to manipulate other lawyers’ briefs. Taking care of flesh-and-blood soldiers calls for real men, trained to know much more than legalese and prissy stuffed-shirt preenery.
Comment by SPC Jack Klompus on 10/4 @ 10:36 pm #
“Lord knows information that can be mastered by someone with an I.Q. of 80″
Really? Then join the military and see if you can learn the Warriors Handbook, 9-line MEDEVAC, OPORDs and FRAGORDs, combatives, firearms mastery, first-aid, HMMWV driving/maneuvering/towing/evacuating, troop movement, the AIT training at your MOS, etc. etc. and pass your PT tests as well.
Would LOVE to see snotbag last one day in the military. You know it takes someone with only an IQ 20 point higher than yours, right, you steaming turd? So step up, shit bag.
Comment by Pablo on 10/4 @ 10:40 pm #
Fortunately, the Naval War College is only 80 miles or so south of Harvard.
Comment by Darleen on 10/4 @ 10:41 pm #
Gen. McChrystal is a West Point grad. It is a hell of a lot harder to get into West Point than Harvard.
Comment by maggie katzen on 10/4 @ 10:42 pm #
well, you know, people go into Basic and come out Generals. It’s not like there’s ever any other schooling.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 10:43 pm #
For enlistment purposes, AFQT Scores are divided into the following categories:
Category I – 93-100
Category II – 65-92
Category IIIA – 50-64
Category IIIB – 31-49
Category IVA – 21-30
Category IVB – 16-20
Category IVC – 10-15
Category V – 0-9
The Army requires a minimum AFQT Score of 31 to qualify for enlistment. However, in recent months, the Army has been approving more and more waivers for those with scores as low as 26 (Category IVA).
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genjoin/a/asvabminimum.htm
Comment by Joe on 10/4 @ 10:48 pm #
Then either Obama as CIC should fire him for insuborination, or McChrystal should resign. But Obama better not fire a General who is being honorable and telling him the bad news and what needs to be done. This is beyond mere politics now, this is life and death and war. Either rise to the task, delegate to those who can, or get the fuck out.
Comment by Pablo on 10/4 @ 10:50 pm #
Is there a point to that, rocketpop? Do you have a problem with middle America joining the Army?
Comment by serr8d on 10/4 @ 10:53 pm #
This snow character stinks of William. He hated the military too.
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/4 @ 10:56 pm #
So what are you saying, that the AFQT test correlates to an IQ test? If so, what’s the multiplication? Have you ever taken the test..?
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 10/4 @ 10:59 pm #
Mr. Snowcone, sir, can you please answer my question?
Comment by NMark W on 10/4 @ 11:04 pm #
POTUS to Gen McChrystal: “How dare you make a speech to a large group of assembled citizens of the world. Do you not yet understand that that is my job, General Whiteguy?! And without a teleprompter probably too! Damn you, smarty whiteguy!
Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 11:04 pm #
Are you saying that military strategy is so facile that it can be mastered in a few weeks by someone with an IQ of 80?
Yep
Comment by Abe Froman on 10/4 @ 11:11 pm #
This trollhammer is awesome. No longer am I subjected to the crayon scribblings of snowclown the uberdodo. I highly recommend it.
/sales pitch
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/4 @ 11:12 pm #
And I for one don’t understand how anyone in their right mind would have an iota of conficdence in any “strategy” cooked up by Biden of Arabia…
Recall that in addition to dreaming up the boffo plan to divide Iraq into ethnic enclaves, much like the Allies divided up the middle east after WWI, Biden of Arabia was also among the ranks of the reality defying Democratic leaders that wandered about seeking camera opportunities where they could recite their mantra, with turrettes like randomness, that “The War is Lost!”, and, “The Surge isn’t working!”; all while our troops were giving their all in the field to achieve victory…
Biden is a mendacious ass, certainly no General, has no direct knowledge of the current situation in Afghanistan, and like Pelosi, Reid, and Obama when he was in the Senate, demagogued the worth and their determination to win the “good” war in Afghanistan…
I mean, I thought this bunch had sworn up and down that they were foing to go all Sgt Rock, super-trooper, kill crazy on the Taliban and AQ; especially after Captain Bullshit tool ownership of the war when he appointed his general to implement his strategy in March. But now that the going is getting tough, and they need compete solidarity from the nutroot left to keep their poll number in the high 40’s, they want to pivot and talen that mega-warrior biden’s advice and pull out all but a division of regulars and a couple of companies of snake-eaters…
Makes me sick that they’re abandoning our soldiers in the field like pawns, all for political gain; just like all of their bullshit talk about Afghanistan has always been-JUST WORDS!
Comment by SBP on 10/4 @ 11:15 pm #
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/4 @ 11:18 pm #
Gee, it’s such a blow to find out all these years later that my Shipmates and Squadronmates were actually, you know, idiots…
So why aren’t you flying warplanes snowcone? Why aren’t you an officer in the field?
Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 11:26 pm #
A spectre is haunting PW…
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 10/4 @ 11:28 pm #
I wonder, Snowcone, if you have ever encountered the notion that superciliousness of the variety you employ in your response does not redound to the expectation that others will take you seriously. What do you hope to accomplish here if you modus operandi is to snarky obscurantism? Is this performance art to you?
Perhaps I misread. Do you really believe what you just said regarding military strategy? If so, can you proffer some evidence for your assertion?
Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 11:37 pm #
If so, can you proffer some evidence for your assertion?
malaclypse,
From General McChrystal’s report: “The insurgents cannot defeat us militarily”
We.can’t.lose.
The U.S. military has been given an overwhelming superiority by the taxpayers of America.
McChrystal’s basic message: “We should stop blowing up so many Afghan civilians.”
Brilliant.
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 10/4 @ 11:49 pm #
My request was for evidence in support of your flip, overweening evaluation of the intelligence necessary to be considered a master of military strategy.
Comment by veronica lake on 10/4 @ 11:51 pm #
mile high dirt berm.
Comment by sidney greenstreet on 10/4 @ 11:53 pm #
balloon fence.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 11:53 pm #
the intelligence necessary to be considered a master of military strategy.
How hard is it to run a war you can’t lose?
Comment by Pablo on 10/4 @ 11:55 pm #
Actually, it’s right around 8 years. How is Obama doing on increasing international support?
Comment by geoffb on 10/4 @ 11:55 pm #
TTP
Comment by peter lorre on 10/4 @ 11:56 pm #
one. day. story.
Comment by maggie katzen on 10/4 @ 11:59 pm #
actually, from what I can find the initial troop level was more like 5,000-ish. But I’m sure you’ve given this much more thought than any of us.
RTO usually tells people it will take at least 20 years because, blah, blah, blah.
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 10/5 @ 12:03 am #
I fail to see how that qualifies as a response to my question.
Comment by The Monster on 10/5 @ 12:10 am #
Once upon a time, the vast majority of troops could do just fine with an 80 IQ. All they had to do was aim the pointy end of the pike at the guys carrying a different colored banner, and stay in line with the pikemen on either side of them in the phalanx. The smart people told the dummies which direction to march.
In today’s military, with complex weapons systems, an IQ of 80 won’t cut it. The least-restrictive service, the Army, insists on at least the 31st percentile in ASVAB scores, which would correspond to half a standard deviation below the median, which correlates to about a Stanford-Binet IQ of 92, with some fudge factor for a low IQ but some savant ability to make up for it. So if someone with an IQ of 80 manages to make it into the Army, he isn’t going to make E-5, much less be an officer candidate.
To get to the level of a flag officer, you have to do a lot more than vote “present”.
Comment by Neo on 10/5 @ 12:19 am #
Blame BOOOOOSH is well past its expiration date!
When Obama is busy doing nothin’, it’s easy to remain in the shadow of George Bush.
Comment by ghost707 on 10/5 @ 12:28 am #
My guess is that both McChrystal and Petraeus know that Obama will by deed or just voting “present” try to turn Afghanistan into Vietnam and remove the troops.
Obama has no stomach for any war whatsoever. I think both generals will resign long before that happens. They both understand that Obama could care less about what happens over there.
Obama’s enemies are conservative Americans – not the Taliban or Al Qaeda – which is why he is voting “present!” and will continue to do so.
The general is just getting ahead of the shitstorm he knows is coming – and wants to make sure the blame falls where it truly lies – at Obama’s feet.
Comment by Mark A. Flacy on 10/5 @ 12:46 am #
Snowcone,
Where did *you* go to college? Would you care to post your SAT scores?
I was in the 98-99 percentile, myself. USMA 1980.
Comment by Jason S on 10/5 @ 1:19 am #
“The neocons basically killed off one of the GOP’s few remaining strengths: The perception of competence in all things defense-related.”
Even if that were temporarily true there is no such thing as progressive competence in such matters. Obama had to pretend to be hawkish on Afghanistan simply to convince people that he wasn’t a standard-issue gutless pussy who shouldn’t be entrusted with the role of commander-in-chief. He’s sure making fast work of parading his timidity and incompetence now.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 1:26 am #
there is no such thing as progressive competence in such matters
Yeah, they sure dropped the ball during WWII.
Comment by Fred Beloit on 10/5 @ 3:14 am #
Snowball say: “Yeah, they sure dropped the ball during WWII.”
No. What the libruls dropped were bombs. Bombs, bombs, and more bombs. Two bombs were really really big. In those days long ago there were some libruls who knew how to win wars for their country. It never entered their minds that surrendering was the patriotic thing to do.
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 3:44 am #
Shouldn’t we think about this and why it’s taken 9 years to get where we are?
Yes, I’m sure you’d prefer to Bush-bash. It’s all you have, after all.
Hint: Bush isn’t in office any more. We’re coming up on a year since the election.
How about if we talk about what that Boy Jeenius in the White House is doing to make things aaaaalllll better?
What’s he doing? Anything?
I realize he’s a busy, busy man, what with jetting in celebrity chefs, taking vacations from his vacation, doing photo shoots for fashion magazines, and schmoozing with European corruptocrats, but maybe he could spare just a LITTLE bit of time to Offgonneeeeestawn?
I haven’t seen you talk about that at all, “Jefferson”, and from the quoted bits NippleNut and Rilly Dumb seem to be studiously avoiding the issue as well.
The Amazing Plastic Presentdent spent a good portion of the campaign babbling on about how he was, by cracky, going to straighten out that mess in Offgonneeeeestawn.
What’s he done?
Be specific and responsive, or get Trollhammered.
Comment by Jason S on 10/5 @ 3:47 am #
Modern progressives are not old school Democrats, they’re not even like old school progressives except for the statist inclinations. Not that an illiterate slob like this snowperson would know the difference. Progressives are limp, pitiful “mean people suck” creatures. Vegetarians. Poofters. Weepy fans of emo music. Washed up hippies. Ugly women mad at the world. Men who dabble in floral arrangements or go antiquing on weekends. Professional students. Amateur yoga enthusiasts. Weirdos in ironic clothing. This is who marches. This is who organizes. This is who trolls on blogs. This isn’t all Democrats, it isn’t even all liberals, but it is all leftist progressives … beginning with the blame America first equivocating pussy in chief. And anyone who likens his worldview to that of FDR or Truman with regard to foreign policy, let alone prosecution of a war is dumber than a toothless crackwhore.
Comment by richardb on 10/5 @ 3:54 am #
Why else would Obama summon the general for a short meeting unless to dress him down?
Don’t forget this is Obama’s General. Appointed by the One to replace Bush’s man, General Mckiernan who was unceremoniously fired by Obama last spring.
We now have Obama’s man in near open rebellion against the President who appointed him. We have a general speaking plainly that his President has had minimal contact with him. We have a general publicaly dismissing the public plan advocated by VP Slo Joe Biden. McCrystal is the public face of the military’s opposition to the WH, but for sure he is not the only top military official in opposition. The fact this general keeps talking tells me the chain of command thru the Pentagon is supporting him.
This is shocking public bickering between the WH and their own Generals on how to conduct the nation’s war strategy. It happened during Vietnam and Korean wars, coincidentally during Democratic administrations in each case.
So how soon til McCrystal is fired or quits? Who else goes when he goes?
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 3:57 am #
Obama in July 2008
So where are those three brigades, guys? And why does Obama blow off the concerns of the commander in charge of this “precarious and urgent situation”?
Please tell us what Obama is doing. Not Bush. Obama.
Thanks.
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 4:01 am #
– Barack Obama, October 2008
Where is this “change”, guys?
Don’t all answer at once.
Comment by No one you know on 10/5 @ 4:14 am #
I’d like to focus on another aspect of this story, the notion that VP Biden is driving the admin’s Afghan policy. Joe.Biden.
Comment by Rusty on 10/5 @ 4:41 am #
#58
Dude! It’s HARD being president. He’s got all those programs and that Olympic thing. It all takes up so much time. Besides nobody in the military voted for him anyhow.
Comment by Jason S on 10/5 @ 4:42 am #
Joe “we should send Iran $300 million no strings attached [after 9/11] as a goodwill gesture” Biden? Sharp man he. Always want a Botoxed/hairplugged plagiarist ideating on the sweaty man stuff like warfare when he has the time off from glad-handing visiting dignitaries from Tonga.
Comment by B Moe on 10/5 @ 4:48 am #
Let’s see, we wouldn’t have been able to come close to providing support for that many troops, and thousands would have had to be evacuated because of starvation and disease, many would have probably died. Bush would have been overwhelmingly defeated by Kerry, who would have then proceeded to fuck shit up much worse than Obama has, and we may have then gotten a competent Republican elected in 08.
So if we were ruthless political opportunists like you, yeah, that would have been a good move.
Comment by Salt Lick on 10/5 @ 5:11 am #
A buddy of mine — a veteran now deployed in A-stan– sent me
this just this morning because it sums up the feeling growing over there — among a volunteer army of America’s finest. Shorter — “we’re going to be sacrificed on the altar of Obama’s political future.” He never once thought that about George Bush.
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 5:29 am #
Look, bunnies. Bunnies that magically didn’t exist when Dubya’s Iraq and then Dubya’s surge had no chance but to fail.
Obama is such a mental midget on anything military
I think that second line is actually a self-evident truth, snotbag — the man was a Chicago pol, a restaurant-reviewing fraud and then suddenly, miraculously, he was the Change & Hope candidate, the one your pop culture, jester class heroes are all starting to doubt from their various Vegas circuits and their late night thrones. Whoops.
Dubya being gone nearly a year, that you’d pull an about face and suddenly declare Obie exempt from whatever lying mental short circuit had the left peeing themselves those prior eight years is evident, too. It tends to reduce you to the unserious little fraud of reason you are.
As I’ve asked other left-trolls here for many months: Where’s your proof of concept; the left-leaning platform that redeems your chronic failures in every office you’ve polluted for a half century or more? Yeah, we all know that’s a rhetorical Q, and we all know this because not one valid shot has been taken trying to answer it.
Which is my point in asking it and which brings us to the patent dishonesty of an ideology built on lies, envy, and theft, and in your case, to the spectacle of missing principle and character that has you coming around time after time proving the point that you have, well, nothing to offer.
You present a convincing case that you’re a useless, sockpuppeting waste of time, snotsack. Nice job upholding whatever lack of principle your parasitic ilk epidemically represents.
Comment by SDN on 10/5 @ 5:40 am #
Oh, and snowblower, we have clip after clip of Copperheads in Congress doing everything they can to undermine the military and give aid and comfort to our enemies…. but only after running their alligator mouths (to the point of passing a law in 1998) requiring Saddam’s removal. Of course, their hummingbird asses didn’t actually do anything….. except make it easier for the enemies of this country to attack it.
Liars. Cowards. Traitors. Democrats. “No longer our countrymen.”
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 5:48 am #
Liars, enviers. cheats, frauds, Democrats. Leftism is where the dysfunctional go.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 5:59 am #
“Lord knows information that can be mastered by someone with an I.Q. of 80 in a few weeks is beyond a Harvard law graduate.”
And your MOS was…..what?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 6:10 am #
You have to have at least a Bachelor’s degree to be a Marine Corps officer.
“McChrystal holds a bachelor in science degree from the United States Military Academy, a master of arts degree in national security and strategic studies from the United States Naval War College, and a master of science degree in international relations from Salve Regina University.[4]”
Gen. Patreaus:
“Petraeus was the General George C. Marshall Award winner as the top graduate of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College—class of 1983.[4] He subsequently earned a M.P.A. degree (1985) and a Ph.D. degree (1987) in International Relations from the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University. He later served as Assistant Professor of International Relations at the U.S. Military Academy and also completed a fellowship at Georgetown University. He has a BS from the U.S. Military Academy—class of 1974—from which he graduated as a distinguished cadet (top 5% of his class).”
Yeah, a real bunch of morons, right snotty?
Comment by yankeeseven on 10/5 @ 6:11 am #
I have had to deal with incompetent commanders as a First Sergeant before and that experience speaks volumes about GEN McChrystal’s comments. A subordinate leader tasked with an objective and receiving little support or guidance as to what the Commander’s plan actually is, will become frustrated and will say and do things to force the decision making process to the front.
I have done it. I have seen it done. The General’s comment: “Waiting does not prolong a favorable outcome. This effort will not remain winnable indefinitely, and nor will public support.” Says “Stop f******** talking and make a decision already!”
His comments are like a ‘Reply All’ email where you copy the Boss so everyone knows that the Boss knows. In this case, we are the Boss.
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 6:18 am #
“Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 11:04 pm #
Are you saying that military strategy is so facile that it can be mastered in a few weeks by someone with an IQ of 80?
Yep”
OK – prove it. Since you apparently hold yourself to such a standard, then go forth and devise a winning strategy. I mean, VP Biden could use the help.
I think this one stands with balloon fence/dirt birm and container army invasion in the Hall of PW Shame.
P.S. Cannot beat us militarily is easily true. You have shown how little you understand anything military by interpreting that the way you did. Is the Talib or HIG going to drive us screaming from the country and march donw Pennsylvania Avenue and eject the Obamas from the White House? Nope. THey can only “win” by the likes of you getting your way and having us simply stack arms and go home. That is not a “military” victory – it is one of will and politics. You and your ilk have already surrendered, in your own minds and hearts.
Of course, no one is asking you to fight, so how about staying out of our way and letting those of us who have volunteered for it, to do so.
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Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 6:31 am #
“They can only “win” by the likes of you getting your way and having us simply stack arms and go home. That is not a “military” victory – it is one of will and politics. You and your ilk have already surrendered, in your own minds and hearts.”
Just like they did in Viet Nam.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 6:33 am #
“Comment by Snowcone on 10/4 @ 10:22 pm #
Obama is such a mental midget on anything military
Lord knows information that can be mastered by someone with an I.Q. of 80 in a few weeks is beyond a Harvard law graduate.”
The depth of ignorance revealed by that comment is telling.
Comment by Joe on 10/5 @ 6:39 am #
To pw regulars: why even try with snowcone? I get that he is a dick and needs a regular asswhoopin, but unlike thor he is not even occasionally funny.
Comment by Dennis D on 10/5 @ 6:45 am #
Where is Shinseki now? Listen to the Generals.
Comment by Pablo on 10/5 @ 6:45 am #
The same reason a boxer works a speedbag, Joe.
Comment by Dennis D on 10/5 @ 6:49 am #
Fredo Biden needs to be kissed and sent on a Boat Trip
” Joe , you are my older brother and I love you but never ever go against the family”
Comment by Pablo on 10/5 @ 6:50 am #
The smartest warmakin’ General evah? He’s running the VA.
Comment by TheGeezer on 10/5 @ 6:53 am #
Obama’s ineptitude is leveraging the hell out of everything. Heaven help us.
Comment by Abe Froman on 10/5 @ 7:12 am #
I can see that trollhammering this fuckwit was of no utility when he can still manage to make the whole thread one big reaction to his one-liner thoughtvomit. How anyone can enjoy engaging this buffoon anymore is beyond me.
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 7:14 am #
fleacone, if I assert that the left is a destination — where society’s politically covetous, its parasites, thieves, and cheats go so as to unify for advantage — how would you refute that? This phenomenon describes the asymmetry of the political domain.
What theory would you point to that defends anti-productivity and the profound loss of personal liberty that historically recommends the collective?
Why do I ask? Because certain leftists prove the point so convincingly, you being one of them.
Comment by munchnstuf on 10/5 @ 7:18 am #
The arrogance and stupidity of this administration is truly breathtaking. It’s almost as bad as this “Snowcone” moron. Anyone who thinks Obama (or his White House lackeys) is smarter in military strategy than Gen. McChrystal because he graduated with a Harvard Law degree (BWAAAHAHAHA!) could only HOPE to reach the minimum IQ requirements for enlistment in our armed forces.
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 7:18 am #
Abe, I think snotty is a lesson. The more it vomits, the more it proves the point against itself.
As with wanting Obie to fail, encouraging the alphtard to continue its maddening exposition is still grist for the mill.
Comment by Starcaller Nishi on 10/5 @ 7:24 am #
As usual I agree with Dr. Kilcullen, one of the authors of the COIN manual.
Reform or Go Home
Wingnuts (that is you, PW) screaming like cats dipped in turpentine isn’t going to effect what the CinC does, sowwy.
You are the minority now.
;)
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 7:28 am #
Comment by Starcaller Nishi on 10/5 @ 7:24 am #
What was your MOS?
Comment by Carin on 10/5 @ 7:28 am #
You are the minority now.
;)
Yes, nishi. You folks OWN this.
LIke you own Michigan.
Congrats. Great job.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 7:28 am #
“You are the minority now.”
Liar.
Comment by Carin on 10/5 @ 7:31 am #
I don’t understand, though, why everyone wants us to shut up. We’re trying to speak Truth-to-Power.
Comment by Carin on 10/5 @ 7:32 am #
OMG, OMG, Frank Beckman is about to interview Debby Stabenow on the radio. Michiganders may want to turn in. I think it’s going to be good.
Comment by Carin on 10/5 @ 7:33 am #
Debby may be the dumbest senator. The competition is fierce, though …
Comment by Abe Froman on 10/5 @ 7:33 am #
Oh brother. Nishi saw combat once with a short-circuiting vibrator so she thinks we might give a fuck what she thinks about matters military.
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 7:35 am #
I suppose we could go full blown moonbat and label Kate one of the “101st Keyboard Commandos” for her armchair generalship…
Could we start throwing out “chickenhawk” too, since the Left is reliving 2004?
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 7:38 am #
Or, shorter General Kate – “I read some John Scalzi mil-SF AND I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!11!11!1″
Comment by Barrett Brown's empty ballsack on 10/5 @ 7:38 am #
I see hogcaller nishit came back to drop a steaming pile of stooopid on the carpet. Pity your parents never house trained your sorry ass.
Comment by Salt Lick on 10/5 @ 7:40 am #
…prepare to mitigate the inevitable humanitarian disaster that will come when the Kabul government falls to the Taliban — which, in the absence of reform, it eventually and deservedly will.
Afghan girls deserve to live like slaves and homos should be executed in soccer stadiums because the government is corrupt. Got it.
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 7:44 am #
Salt, If that is what should be, because of corruption – God help the City of Chicago and the City of New Orleans and whatever district Charlie Rangel represents…
Comment by Squid on 10/5 @ 7:44 am #
C’mon, Salt Lick — we’ve already established beyond a reasonable doubt that the Left is totally cool with the idea of the sexual slavery of girls. Why settle for Central American sex slaves when you can get SW Asian sex slaves, too? Variety is the spice of life!
Comment by Pablo on 10/5 @ 7:48 am #
Is Gen. McChrystal a wingnut, kate? And is his screaming going to affect what the CinC does? It should.
Comment by Joe on 10/5 @ 7:53 am #
Maybe Obama does not know what victory is like, but he is starting to get a good understanding of failure.
We do not need him repeating failure in Afghanistan.
Comment by Joe on 10/5 @ 7:55 am #
Okay. That makes sense.
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 7:56 am #
Hate to be repetitive, but would one of the trolls kindly tell us what Obama is actually doing, or has done, to alleviate the situation in Afghanistan? It’s been almost a year since the election. We know that this is a “precarious and urgent situation”, ’cause Presentdent-Wannabee Teleprompter told us so during the campaign, repeatedly. So what’s the Smartest Man in the World doing about it.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for a substantive response.
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 8:05 am #
Gotta go to work now. I’ll check back later. I’m sure nishbot, NippleNut, RillyDumb, and “Jefferson” will have filled us all in on Obama’s Grand Strategy by then.
Comment by Joe on 10/5 @ 8:09 am #
In these dark times, all I can say is this: Screw ‘em.
Comment by Salt Lick on 10/5 @ 8:19 am #
If that is what should be, because of corruption – God help the City of Chicago and the City of New Orleans…
Yeah, it’s stuff like New Orleans and Katrina that makes all that “God’s Wrath” stuff plausible. I see a plague of elephant-pigeons in Chicago’s future.
Comment by Frontman on 10/5 @ 8:26 am #
“If we see no genuine progress on such steps toward government responsibility, the United States should “Afghanize,” draw down troops and prepare to mitigate the inevitable humanitarian disaster that will come when the Kabul government falls to the Taliban — which, in the absence of reform, it eventually and deservedly will.”
It’s not failure, it’s “redefined objectives”.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 10/5 @ 8:51 am #
Two lamprous trolls – one a mouth breathing moron and the other a engenist.
Can’t say the left is looking its best here.
Comment by serr8d on 10/5 @ 8:52 am #
General McChrystal to Barack Obama?
No, but that’s the sentiment BHO will read into McChrystal’s intent, Baracky being an actual skirt-wearing proggtard.
Why does the Left always loathe the military?
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 8:54 am #
“They made no secret of their view that without the vast ground force recommended by Gen McChrystal, …”
Vast ground force? Vast? A possible maximum 45,000 men at arms added to 68,000 is vast? That is nonsense on skates doing dipsy-doodles.
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 8:54 am #
“I see a plague of elephant-pigeons in Chicago’s future.”
Could you give me an ETA on that one. I’d like to NOT be downtown when that happens…
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 8:56 am #
“The relationship between President Barack Obama and the commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan has been put under severe strain by Gen Stanley McChrystal’s comments on strategy for the war.”
Why hasn’t the relationship been put under severe strain by Pres. Obama’s protracted dithering about a fairly straight forward decision? After all, as the saying goes, it takes two to tango.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 10/5 @ 8:57 am #
“You may fly over a land forever; you may bomb it, atomize it,
pulverize it and wipe it clean of life, but if you desire to defend
it, protect it, and keep it for civilization, you must do this on the
ground, the way the Roman legions did, by putting your young men into
the mud.”
– T. R. Fehrenbach, This Kind of War: The Classic Korean War History, 1963
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 9:00 am #
“According to sources close to the administration, Gen McChrystal shocked and angered presidential advisers …”
Shocked and angered “presidential advisers” who in turn could quite easily be the “sources close to the admiinistration”. This is crap journalism at its finest on parade.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 9:03 am #
“An adviser to the administration said: “People aren’t sure whether McChrystal is being naïve or an upstart. To my mind he doesn’t seem ready for this Washington hard-ball and is just speaking his mind too plainly.”
Ah, so we are supposed to cherish the opinion of a nameless adviser who doesn’t believe in speaking his mind plainly. Good to know. Nothing like trusting a self-admitted prevaricator.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 10/5 @ 9:04 am #
Or at least not standing under any statues…
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 9:05 am #
“I’ll do the thinnin around here!”
-Quixdraw McBama, Architect of the Afganistan Collapse c2009.
Comment by serr8d on 10/5 @ 9:06 am #
@112 The Sanity Inspector, I hope those newcomers are easily impressionable, LGF being a clone factory and all. Otherwise they will be quickly banned.
Pingback by Jules Crittenden » Chaos-istan on 10/5 @ 9:11 am #
[...] Protein Wisdom: McChrystal’s crime … depriving Obama of a scapegoat. [...]
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 9:18 am #
Good observation sdferr,
We’re supposed to value the opinions of un-named sniping “officials” who have such courage of conviction that they won’t actually, you know, go on the record and own their opinion, as opposed to General McChrystal who will…
Just the usual faux Outrage! on Obama’s behalf from the usual quarters…
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/032706.html
There’s a pretty good discussion of it at that link…
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 9:26 am #
And, in a related piece, the chief of the UK’s General staff, Sir David Richards also warns of the consequences of defeat:
“‘If al-Qaeda and the Taliban believe they have defeated us – what next? Would they stop at Afghanistan? Pakistan is clearly a tempting target not least because of the fact that it is a nuclear-weaponed state and that is a terrifying prospect. Even if only a few of those (nuclear) weapons fell into their hands, believe me they would use them. The recent airlines plot has reminded us that there are people out there who would happily blow all of us up.’ ”
http://tiny.cc/nHLfN
So I guess McChrystal’s not the only military man that see’s the far reaching inplications of further dithering and inaction. But, you know, he’s probably a wingnut raaaaacist! too…
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 9:33 am #
Yeah, I don’t know how it happened but tinyurl botched the last link to the telegraph, substituting a facebook one instead…
Here’s the telegraph UK link: http://tiny.cc/07djt
Sorry for any confusion
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 9:45 am #
Maybe nuggiecaller can answer what its comrades cannot: Save for that we’re-the-majority stuff, what recommends leftism?
Comment by JD on 10/5 @ 9:46 am #
Your wingNazi hatred is keeping Ugada from being peaceful.
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 9:50 am #
What the world needs is just more Manhattan Transfer choruses, JD. Surely swell proggsoulthoughts will reform the unreformed and at last render the globe peaceful.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 9:52 am #
Scare quoting furious as “furious” is all well and good but let’s try to say something we know about this supposed state of Obama’s emotions toward Gen McChrystal, how’s about? What we know about that is that we do not know.
Simple.
Now that some individuals unknown to us want us to believe that we know what Obama’s emotional state toward Gen McChrystal was says — not something about Obama vis a vis McChrystal — but something about the positions of those unknown persons pressing this story at the reporter. Sensational! Period.
What would that be then? We might surmise, for starters, that while driving a phantom emotional wedge between the General and the President was their (or his, if one has been made to appear many) initial aim it may not have been their (or his) ultimate aim. So what might that ultimate aim be?
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 9:53 am #
Yankee Seven in #70 assesses GEN McChrystal correctly. I’ve dealt with incompetent commanders as well, and sometimes you have to put sunlight into the conversation.
And as other PW inhabitants have noted, Obama is setting up Afghanistan to turn into his Vietnam. I’m certain that McChrystal and Patreaus see this, and are trying to get the sunlight in.
Obama is trying to dodge the responsibility as fast as he can, but he is the President, and this is his war…..whether he likes it or not, the blood of many people will be on his hands. Wimping out now means more blood for a bad reason; manning up still means blood, but less, and for a decent reason.
But Obama, at heart, is a coward. He’ll most likely wimp out, and try to blame someone else. And then he’ll order up an arugula salad to make himself feel better.
I hope not. But I fully expect it. The Dhimmicrats, with Obama at the helm, are a disaster for the free world in general, and America in particular.
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 9:58 am #
BTW, McChrystal’s speech that has the White House furious is an example of a commander fighting for the mission and taking care of his troops.
Obama deigning to speak with McChrystal as a side note to the IOC trip is an example of a wuss taking care of himself.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 10:01 am #
“But Obama, at heart, is a coward.”
I’d leave this an open question for the time being JeffS. It may be that Obama hasn’t distinguished himself in ways you would honor as courageous thus far in his life, to be sure, but that fact alone, if it is a fact, cannot prove that he will not do so, say, in the near future — in short, the possibility remains. Let’s leave that flag a bit more plainly on the table, so that if your hope proves true, it’s all the easier to take up and wave in thanks.
Comment by shotgun on 10/5 @ 10:04 am #
Well. I assume y’all are staging the same ‘reckless disregard’ for the Afghan mission, as you did for Iraq. Little thought and less planning went into the Iraq debacle. You apparently liked the results, and want to rush in like the fools you’ve always been, and continue to learn nothing from your stupid mistakes.
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 10:12 am #
The initial drive to Baghdad was probably the single most impressive military actions in history, friend. The surge was a convincing closing chapter.
So?
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 10:14 am #
“action”, actually…
Comment by cynn on 10/5 @ 10:18 am #
Yankeeseven nails it; that dynamic applies in any stratified organization (except maybe investment banks; there it’s everyone out for him or herself).
But this article seems disingenuous. All these anonymous advisors and a general who “wasn’t there” but is certain the meeting was “awkward” are insisting that Gen. McChrystal has enraged Obama, possibly setting the stage for a disastrous outcome? How do we know that McChrystal didn’t say exactly what the CinC wanted him to say? Obama has been very quiet about Afghanistan; maybe there’s a reason.
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 10:19 am #
Little thought and less planning went into the Iraq debacle.
Actually, a lot of thought went into the invasion. The plans to occupy Iraq were far less thought out.
But I agree — Obama not learning from one mistake of the Bush Administration is indeed disturbing. More so because the Bush Administration learned from their own mistakes……hence the Iraqi surge. Which worked.
You apparently liked the results, and want to rush in like the fools you’ve always been, and continue to learn nothing from your stupid mistakes.
We (at least, the rational folks) liked the results of the surge — reduced casualties, Al Quaeda beat down and back, more stability in Iraq.
We don’t like more blood because President Obama is a clueless coward. If more blood must be spilled, let it be Taliban blood.
Unless you and your ilk don’t care about those brown people in Afghanistan, shotgun.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 10:20 am #
Well put cynn, thanks.
Comment by geoffb on 10/5 @ 10:23 am #
OT: A Harvard grad who is more than several standard deviations above the snowcone standard writes on The price of the lie.
Comment by shotgun on 10/5 @ 10:25 am #
“Unless you and your ilk don’t care about those brown people in Afghanistan, shotgun.”
I also care about sending our troops into another meat-grinder without sufficient infrastructure and basic security with barracks or fortresses
yet to be built. And how about the fraudulent Karzhai govt? Is there any reason to send more troops there until some stability attended with
Afghan confidence they are being respresented?
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 10:27 am #
Little thought and less planning went into the Iraq debacle.
Buuuuuuuusssssshhhhhhh!!!!!
Is that the only thing the Ozombies have?
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 10:30 am #
How do we know that McChrystal didn’t say exactly what the CinC wanted him to say? Obama has been very quiet about Afghanistan; maybe there’s a reason.
We really don’t, cynn. But Obama is a very public president. He did the full court press for health care “reform”, and flew to Copenhagen to make a pitch for Chicago to the IOC.
On Afghanistan? He delegates to Biden, holds few meetings, and stays mum. Except when he is furious with McChrystal for saying what he did.
And the fact that the White House is furious with McChrystal about that speech goes against McChrystal saying what the CinC wants him to say.
So, I’d say there’s a 99% chance that Obama is indeed furious with McChrystal. And the reason he’s furious is the same reason why Obama is mum on Afghanistan: he doesn’t want to own the problem. Except that Obama does own the problem.
Sunlight, it is a wonderful disinfectant.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 10:33 am #
Just for grins, looping off of Roland’s quote of something/one or other “Iraq debacle” I looked up debacle in the online Merriam-Webster and learned something I hadn’t known, namely the first definition given:
The Allied actions in Iraq were, as it happens, none of those.
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 10:33 am #
Oh, and I’ll be glad to quibble on my “99% chance”; if there is a solid reason, other than what I’ve stated, that increases the chance of victory in Afghanistan, great! I don’t care who the President is, that will be good news.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 10:36 am #
“Except when he is furious with McChrystal for saying what he did. ”
Now that is an occasion for the proper use of the phrase “begging the question”, a phrase now long abandoned to the improper use of the tv newsreaders.
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 10:40 am #
The article seems disingenuous because it probably is; the reporter most likely has an agenda. It’s no secret that far-left Democrats are the ones who advocate a withdrawl, to satisy their constituents that share the code-pink mindset. The reason for the indecision is simple; te President needs to keep the Democrat coalition to gether for domestic political reasons and can ill afford a split based on opposition to the war. He knows better than anyone else that, “the political is personal”, especially so amongst his political allies, and that should Afghanistan become a wedge issue beteeen Democrats then the factions woudl develop that balkanized mindset that would most likely ruin any possibility of compromise over the health care and cap-n-trade legislative packages.
He desperately needs a win, knows the “WingNazis”-as JD so eloquently quipped-will not support his domestic agenda, and may be willing to sacrifice the war effort to keep what he percieves as his governing coalition together; an especially cynical calculus considering the foreign policy demagoguery on the campaign trail…
This apparent willingness to sacrifice larger matters of national security, “kicking the can down the road”-the cliche he so often uses to scold his domestic opponents, all in the name of his domestic political agenda is twisted at best, and treasonous at worst.
This nation learned what happens when political considerations are given a higher priority than actual strategic ones on the battlefield. The President needs to listen to the reccomendations of the General he appointed and surge the forces in Afghanistan. Make no mistake, the Taliban, AQ, Iranians, and many others are watching, and what we call indecisiveness is percieved as weakness to them. They will press the situation to exploit that percieved weakness, and unless we deal with them from a position of strength the notion of Afghanistan as quagmire may become a sort of self ful
Comment by shotgun on 10/5 @ 10:41 am #
“a great disaster b : a complete failure : fiasco”
Of course I understand you can only see the initial invasion and ’surge’ with that advanced case of myopia, but I wonder how many troops unnecessarily died as a result of the failure to anticipate the Insurgency with it’s IED’s because we thought an Arab Nation would welcome occupiers with gladness and celebration?
Foreseeing that calculation and using some circumspection instead of discharging testosterone prematurely, was the failure. We don’t want that sort of recklessness to repeat.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 10:44 am #
THey can only “win” by the likes of you getting your way and having us simply stack arms and go home.
JUst like the Founding Fathers intended.
WE don’t think the benefits of continuing military operations in Afghanistan exceed the costs.
NOthing in McChrystal’s self-contradictory report changes that.
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 10:46 am #
#142 seems to have been cut off at the end; it should finish with “self fullfilling prophecy”…
And sorry for the typos gang, my fingers are staging a mutiny!
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 10:52 am #
Re #128, sdferr, conceded. I could be wrong. I’d rather be wrong.
Comment by mcgruder on 10/5 @ 10:52 am #
this all remoinds me of when the Bush political idiots went after the generals who demanded more troops for Iraq and who went after the critics of the general Fubar-ity of Iraq.
So now that the Left has power and a General demands more troops and a change in strategy and commitment level….the outrage!
Amusing, if real Americans weren’t being blown to shreds as politicans dither.
PS- darleen, I think Harvard is harder to get into, but USMA is assuredly 100% to stay at. You dont get to craft majors or inter-disciplinary soft courses. Everybody takes hard science and higher math; everyone takes strategic history. Shit, you study Shakespear, Chaucer and Milton. No outs, for anyone. And then there is the PT, the drilling….
Its a bitch of a place. Harvard, while excellent, offers numerous opportunities to pull back on the throttle.
Comment by mcgruder on 10/5 @ 10:54 am #
re 147:
meant to stay USMA is 100% harder to stay at.
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 10:56 am #
I also care about sending our troops into another meat-grinder without sufficient infrastructure and basic security with barracks or fortresses.
You’d best revisit your sources again. Especially in regards to the total lack of infrastructure in The ‘Stan, and how we need the chance to build it; “barracks” do not win wars. There’s a reason why helicopters are so vital, in such demand, but yet not enough in numbers.
As for Kharzi…….we had a similar problem in Iraq. Still do, to a lesser degree. And we didn’t cut and run. You might ponder that.
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 10:59 am #
shotgun,
The problems in Iraq between the conclusion of the invasion and the surge had more to do with trying to fight it on the cheap than any failure to anticipate “Arab” reaction. A flawed strategy that Booooosh! should have seen through instead of trusting Rumsfeld to handle the occupation as well as he had the invasion…
In fact, the IED’s and equipment and training for the insurgents you speak of were Iranian supplied materials and support.
So, the lesson to be learned then is to not try and conduct operations “on the cheap” in Afghanistan, owing to the cost in lives of doing do to our military forces. And I’ve long conteneded that another lesson would be to not trust the Iranians not to meddle…
We should have slapped them down long ago instead of worrying about queering the non-productive negotiations that the Europeans were engaged in; that were merely stall tactics by another name…
Unless the President is seriously considering a complete withdrawl there is no reason to ignore the General’s request…
Comment by shotgun on 10/5 @ 10:59 am #
“And we didn’t cut and run. You might ponder that.”
Since we need a chance to build barracks, you might want to consider volunteering as a contractor. I’m sure you’ll feel all cozy sleeping in a tent, in the meantime.
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 11:01 am #
And snotty the socialist invokes the Constitution.
Why are we in A., snotty?
Comment by JD on 10/5 @ 11:01 am #
The willfully ignorant. And/or aggressively dishonest remain so. Snotnose is still overtly lying about the Gen’s report, and its new compadre is just spitting out HuffPo talking points.
Boooooooooooosh!
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 11:03 am #
“”…when the Bush political idiots went after the generals who demanded more troops for Iraq and who went after the critics of the general Fubar-ity of Iraq.”
How much of Bush’s long wait to change his strategic approach, mcgruder, would you have attributed to actual, honest, uncertainty on his, Bush’s, part as to whether the course recommended by Abizaid et al was apparently not working but could be about to work? Was any of Bush’s long wait driven by political considerations, do you think? It seems to me that these sort of uncertainties must plague strategic commanders and will often cause setbacks which can only appear in retrospect.
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 11:04 am #
Since we need a chance to build barracks, you might want to consider volunteering as a contractor. I’m sure you’ll feel all cozy sleeping in a tent, in the meantime.
CHICKEN HAWK!!!!
Seriously, you need better material.
Comment by JD on 10/5 @ 11:05 am #
Oh no, shotgun is pulling the chicken-contractor card!
Comment by takeshi kovacs on 10/5 @ 11:07 am #
The first British expedition to Mesopotamia, in 1914, took almost three years, claimed 10,000 casualties, mostly due to illness, from the exposure in the marshes. The subsequent uprising in 1920 took about 1,000 casualties,
Afghanistan has been the tougher nut historically starting with the debacle in 1841, but the various expeditions and the two other wars, indicate you really can’t walk away.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 11:09 am #
Bush political idiots
It rolls off the tongue for mcgruder, but that’s mcgruder. It’s his only vice.
But if we accept “idiot” with Bush, then there’s going to have to be some much lower intellect-form to describe Obama.
It probably should be a symbol.
I vote: ________
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 11:10 am #
What I mean is: _________ is the symbol for Obama’s stupidity.
Comment by JD on 10/5 @ 11:12 am #
*@#*@@#*
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 11:12 am #
How about <0?
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 11:15 am #
-1^-.5
Comment by JD on 10/5 @ 11:17 am #
Teh -1
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 11:18 am #
Or:
V V
V V
o o
I call it “Deer in Headlights”
Comment by Ric Locke on 10/5 @ 11:18 am #
Bingo.
Military action in Iraq has gone precisely as predicted except for the timing.
The original goal, as repeatedly explicated (and disbelieved and distorted) was to remove Saddam Hussein and his coterie, neuter the Iraqi Army (notably the Republican Guard), and stand back while the Iraqis rebuilt their country along lines designed to benefit the people rather than totally devoted to benefitting the Great Leader. That never changed under Bush.
It took much longer than anticipated to get the Iraqis to do that, for a lot of reasons, and the normal impatience of the American people combined with the Disneyfied understanding of how things like that work of the Media and punditocracy converted that into “…didn’t have a plan.” Bush did have a plan, and worked to execute it the entire time, but plans have a way of failing, especially when you have somebody out there deliberately trying to obstruct them.
I reckon the Bush Administration anticipated opposition from al Qaeda, Taliban, the al-Sadr group, etc., but overestimated the remaining resilience of Iraqi society as a whole.
“The surge” didn’t work in the terms monkyboy, shotgun, et. al. insist on. What worked was the “awakening”. The additional troops helped cement that, but before the western tribes woke up to what al Qaeda was up to and started resisting them instead of (or in addition to) American troops, we could have sent in everybody we have in uniform and accomplished nothing.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by Jho on 10/5 @ 11:18 am #
____ is certainly a factor, but the real problems are ____, ____, and ____.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 11:18 am #
that could’ve been better
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 11:20 am #
I wrote in 154 “can only appear in retrospect” where I should have written “appear solid in retrospect” for if the prospects of failure, i.e., the mere appearance of failure were not already present, there would be no simple, at hand occasion to spur questioning of the extant strategic position and invoke the necessity of change in the first place. So appearances of failure were already there to be had, certainties of failure were not.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 11:30 am #
Why are we in A., snotty?
Because the U.S. military mistook the Taliban for al Qaeda.
Comment by Eben on 10/5 @ 11:33 am #
Because the U.S. military mistook the Taliban for al Qaeda.
In idiot world the military declares war, decides whom to attack, invades countries at its own discretion and fights anyone it wants to.
The President just stands there and watches.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 11:38 am #
Bush “listened to his generals,” Eben.
Or so we’re being told now.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 11:40 am #
Myth-busting now.
Obama is “involved”
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 11:43 am #
“Because the U.S. military mistook the Taliban for al Qaeda.”
You’re kidding, right? Because no one can be this stupid or have this short a memory…
I never realized I was arguing with a teen-ager…
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 11:43 am #
Bush at least made actual decisions, right wrong or indifferent.
The -1 suffers from a lack of decision making ability. Comes from the malignant narcissim and a fear of being help responsible.
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 11:46 am #
SNo is probably looking at a different Constitution – his Founding Dads intended to lose fights and blame the uniform folks. So much for his beloved civilian control smarminess. But remember, anyone with an IQ above 80 can do strategy – so why he hasn’t laid out the campign plan and sent a copy to the White House is not yet understood.
Shotgun – this is a really bad site to try and play the chickenhawk card – I bet I spent more time in tents in Afghanistan than you think.
Comment by Eben on 10/5 @ 11:50 am #
Bush “listened to his generals,” Eben.
You’re so full of shit. Everything that comes out of your pie hole is colored by political gotcha games. Idiot Bush is the one that decided that kicking out the Taliban and ’stabilizing’ the place was on par with defeating AQ, the military had nothing to do with that political call.
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 11:53 am #
Why is Obie there, snotty, nine months later? With his 80 IQ points, could he be bright enough to recognize the threat Pawkeestawn’s arsenal represents?
Don’t turn around now but there’s a cluebat turning toward you, doing its best UAV impersonation.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 11:58 am #
Isn’t the most salient characteristic of Obama’s approach to the Afghanistan strategic problem the fact most notable by its absence? That is, Obama has not, does not, spend his television face time these last three months making the case to the American people that perseverance in Afghanistan is in the nation’s interests? He does not argue forcefully in public what the fight there is, what the fight there must achieve and finally how that aim will be achieved? He expends none of his political capital addressing the American public on these subjects these days that I can see: he is content to allow public opinion to drift whither it may.
Comment by Ric Locke on 10/5 @ 11:58 am #
Bob Reed and others,
monkyboy has some value because he encapsulates the plastic bigoted stereotype the Leftoids are arguing against. It has nothing whatever to do with the real world, and in fact impinges on reality only at a few, tenuous points, but that’s all they can see and all they talk about.
Afghanistan is (or was, originally) the Good War because it was seen as revenge — they hurt us, so we’re allowed to hurt them back. Iraq was the Bad War because there is no way to justify it within the bigoted stereotype that is Teh Narrative™ or “conventional wisdom”. They have no idea whatever why Bush wanted to go to Iraq, so they dredge up fantastic explanations that fit with their bigotry and argue against those, instead of addressing anything resembling the actual reasoning.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by Warpiper on 10/5 @ 12:04 pm #
Now I know where all the leftist contempt for the military went. For a while there, I couldn’t figure out why the anti-military crowd was joining in on the military love-fest of the last few years. Apparently, they just vent their bile and insults in the comments section of their favorite blogs and news outlets.
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 12:09 pm #
You have no idea, as for alphie/monky/snocone’s part… heh.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 12:16 pm #
SNo is probably looking at a different Constitution
If LTC John had his way, the U.S. military would get to fill out its own report card.
Perhaps you’d be happier down south in a banana republic?
Comment by B Moe on 10/5 @ 12:20 pm #
If AQ weren’t in Iraq, and they weren’t in Afghanistan, where the hell are they?
Comment by JD on 10/5 @ 12:23 pm #
Yellowsnow is just ramping up the hate now.
Comment by mcgruder on 10/5 @ 12:27 pm #
SdFerr, Alpuccino,Ric Locke:
Good points. I suspect my own biases against an Iraq war blind me to whatever merits there may well have been to President Bush’s decision-making process.
As someone who came a stones throw from pursuing strategic history as a career, I have to acknowledge the fact that any decision to engage in combat is certain to result in deadly mistakes that appear easily avoided—years after the fact.
Which is why I try and check my tongue as Obama comes to realize that he’s no longer running a street op against an unfriendly-to-tenants landlord, or whatever it is that community organizers do. He’s playing with human lives and making decisions that affect the course of history for a generation or more. He’s very, very clearly trying to come to terms with that reality and it has resulted in the delay in rendering a decision on Afghanistan. The angst is a result of the perception of complexity, and being from the upper-levels of liberal academia, there is much native sympathy for this sort of process in liberal quarters.
Bush, for whatever his faults (and my position is clear to all on this board) had no such hesitation. He took the decision immediately with Afghanistan.
In a sense, the minute Bush decided Afghanistan would be taken over, probably around mid-day on 9-11-01, the legend of Bush as a vindictive and reactive retard was cast.
Its something altogether deeper than politics, although politics is the most socially sanctioned way this is expressed.
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 12:28 pm #
Perhaps you’d be happier down south in a banana republic?
The way Barrack ‘Hugo’ Obama is headed, we may find out without all that travel headache.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 12:31 pm #
So macgruder, in the present instance, do you believe President Obama is involved in a necessary conversation with himself over a question of means or a question of ends?
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 12:34 pm #
Sorry, “mcgruder” mcgruder, macgruder was an unintended misspelling. Pardon.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 12:35 pm #
“Comment by shotgun on 10/5 @ 10:25 am #
“Unless you and your ilk don’t care about those brown people in Afghanistan, shotgun.”
I also care about sending our troops into another meat-grinder without sufficient infrastructure and basic security with barracks or fortresses
yet to be built.”
WTF?
Matt the Marine just spent 7 months at FOB Golestan. It seemed pretty substantial to him.
Was he halucinating or something?
OR could it be you have not the first beginning of the onset of a whiff of a clue what the fuck you’re talking about?
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 12:37 pm #
That’s how it’s done. The way mcgruder does it. By the way, 2 questions.
1. Did you run the marathon?
2. Were the nipples unscathed?
Comment by B Moe on 10/5 @ 12:39 pm #
Good points, mcgruder, but I think you are missing one big point: Obama comes from a camp that refuses to ever accept war as an acceptable solution. He has had to pretend otherwise to get elected, but his base, and I think he feels the same way deep down, cannot even conceive of winning a war. It is an oxymoron, and that is the big reason for his current dilemma.
He literally can’t win.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 12:39 pm #
OT: did any of you all just notice the appearance of a huge number of online gambling adverts and links showing up at the bottom of this page? If so, what’s up with that and how might we disappear it all?
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 12:41 pm #
I did see them sdferr. And then I lost $35k in about 10 minutes.
Comment by B Moe on 10/5 @ 12:44 pm #
I did see them, they seem to be gone now. Probably off depositing al’s money.
Comment by B Moe on 10/5 @ 12:45 pm #
Now they are back.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 12:45 pm #
“Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 11:30 am #
Why are we in A., snotty?
Because the U.S. military mistook the Taliban for al Qaeda.”
You’re a moron.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 12:45 pm #
Heh, would that I had the $35k to lose al.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 12:46 pm #
Sweet. A chance to get whole again.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 10/5 @ 12:49 pm #
Snowcone is amazing. He knows shit about absolutely nothing, yet thinks he does. He couldn’t explain counterinsurgency strategy if you fed it to him on a teleprompter, but he thinks he’s Ramon fucking Magsaysay. When he encounters an argument he doesn’t have a neat, pat answer for, he ignores it like a feckless pre-revolutionary aristocrat. I’m done treating him with anything like respect.
As to McChrystal/Obama, I wonder if Teh Once is dithering to give the appearance of being a great soul in chains with regard to Afghanistan. Recall the nothing he’s accomplished from the point of view of the Left. He can’t appear to be too gung-ho, now that his support among independents is shaky and the Right is full of spleen, uncovering ONE.DAY.STORIES. left and right. Gotta keep his base on board.
Or, he could just be a Leader of Men. I can’t decide.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 12:49 pm #
Interesting, I opened another version of the same thread and *bloink* they’re gone, where re-loading the extant open thread made no difference.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 12:50 pm #
Who said I had it?
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 12:52 pm #
Ah, good point al, you didn’t say, so it’s an example of taking the Obama stimulus approach then?
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 12:52 pm #
I heard Obama jotted down some more notes for another speech and he used the word “eye” a lot so the speechwriter wouldn’t think he was so conceited.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/5 @ 12:53 pm #
Ah, good point al, you didn’t say, so it’s an example of taking the Obama stimulus approach then?
Yes. I call it my “Cash for Craps” program.
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 12:56 pm #
OT, but for all you Spengler fans out there.
President Barack Obama may be remembered for permanent depression, the way that Leon Trotsky’s name is linked with permanent revolution.
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/5 @ 12:57 pm #
“Obama inherited a crisis, to be sure, but he has made it much worse.”
FWIW
Comment by mcgruder on 10/5 @ 12:58 pm #
Alpuccino, Sdferr,
I can’t figure out Obama. I suspect he cant accept the ends–that war in Afghanistan can be resolved in a fashion that is broadly favorable to U.S. interests and safety, let alone punishing those who harbored AQ–thus he cant take a decision on means.
But I might be wrong. I suspect–and I am fairly ham-handed on things political–that he is close to a major misreading of American will on Afghanistan. It is the war our nation’s citizens seek to win and are willing to use force in to impose our will.
My great question is put to you all: Pakistan. What next? It seems like when we talk about Afghanistan, we are really talking about the tribal areas of Pakistan and its support for AQ et al.
PS–what IS with the gambling stuff? JG–Ive been hitting the tip jar, you know this!
PPS: thanks Al–going in a few weeks. I did 11 miles one day last week and i forgot the GLIDE and ….damn. It really sucked. it must utterly devastate women was my takeaway.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 10/5 @ 12:59 pm #
Trotsky. Feh. The Lamb who takes away the sins of Communism. If there’s one thing lower than a Bolshevik, it’s a cut-rate one.
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 1:01 pm #
The banter here competes for top entertainment value with snotty’s chronic, predictable refusal to answer anything other than a deserved insult. Where else can you, as Pablo adroitly points out, anonymously engage the eminently foolish at no charge so as to keep limber your most primitive hindbrain and prove false virtually all of the left’s religious beliefs at the same time?
Comment by JHo on 10/5 @ 1:03 pm #
I can’t figure out Obama.
Maybe BO is the POTUS frozen in place by the magnitude of the job. Incompetence is one thing, and corruption is another — of course, competence is a rarity. But this could be the guy who’s sobbing in the corner. It fits the evidence.
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 1:05 pm #
From shotgun:
Since we need a chance to build barracks, you might want to consider volunteering as a contractor.
Woohoo! The chickenhawk meme, applied to contractors!
Actually, I’m retired reserves — 27 years active, Reserve, and Guard. Slept in tents, barracks, on the ground, in vehicles, etc.
Not to mention your attempt to change the subject to a subject you clearly know zero about infrastructure anywhere, let alone The ‘Stan.
Say, did I mention I’m an engineer? Civilian and military.
And now you can fuck off, shotgun.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 1:06 pm #
Pakistan is the toughest of tough nuts is what I’ve thought since the day after 9/11/2001. Keep feeding the corrupt beast seems to be the way our leaders have chosen to go — though while currently bemoaning the corruption in Afghanistan, which, hilarious! is what that is — though I think had I my druthers I’d have gotten a damned sight closer to the Indians than either Bush or Obama have chosen to do.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 10/5 @ 1:06 pm #
He can’t fuck off. Where else would he get attention?
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 10/5 @ 1:08 pm #
Eventually, sdferr, what goes on in the Kush is going to be India’s business. A Great-Power world is slowly dawning…
Comment by Lisa on 10/5 @ 1:08 pm #
What happened to the Perf? Did he go Galt?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 1:09 pm #
“Say, did I mention I’m an engineer? Civilian and military.”
Oooopsy.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 10/5 @ 1:09 pm #
Basically, yes. Though he pops out of the Gulch from time to time.
How’s it hanging, Lisa?
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 1:09 pm #
“what goes on in the Kush is going to be India’s business”
I think the Israelis, for one nation, are hep to that eventuality Andrew.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 10/5 @ 1:11 pm #
#117 serr8d:
Definitely a sea change over there, so far as the content of the comments goes.
Comment by Silver Whistle on 10/5 @ 1:13 pm #
Holy moly, was that a Sugartits sighting?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 1:13 pm #
Oh.
Here, shotgun.
In case you missed it.
Some of the substantial, actual stuff Marines live in in A-stan:
http://www.mca-marines.org/kilo.asp
You fucking moron.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 1:14 pm #
Hey, Lisa, howz it going?
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 1:19 pm #
sdferr @178
Thta’s Obama’s way of voting “present” on Afghanistan. If he remains publicly inscrutable and gives it no face time, then both left and right don’t really know what’s going on. And, while some on the starboard side such as myself may get a their dander up a bit over his seemingly ambivalent national security posture mostly we’ll allgrit our teeth and resolve to wait and see. But, on the left they can use newspaper pieces such as the one we’ve been discussing as well as comments by E.J.Dionne and other progressive narrative shapers to procaim that Obama is on the same peace-in-our-time appeasment advocating page as they are, and run with that meme as if it were a matter of fact; to the point where they will criticize the ultra-far-left code pink types for calling him on the war because he is moving towards their position anyway, albeit stealthily for fear the “wingnutz” will convince the independant voters that Obama is pulling defeat from the jaws of victory-so to speak…
So, while I’m uncomfortable with his silence, and suspect a purely political, with total disregared for actual security concerns, cost-benefit calculus behind the dithering, I guess I’ll just have to wait and see…
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 1:26 pm #
He couldn’t explain counterinsurgency strategy if you fed it to him on a teleprompter
Again trying to push the idea that military strategy is really, really, really!1!1!1 hard to grasp.
If you’re trying to get the people of Afghanistan to support you, stop killing so many of them.
Simple.
Even McChrystal realizes that now.
Comment by Ric Locke on 10/5 @ 1:28 pm #
mcgruder, Obama is easy to figure out.
He’s a slacker.
Whatever he does is going to piss somebody off, and he’s got a lot of work to do before he can come to any decision. When the going gets tough, the slack get going somewhere else — Copenhagen, the beach, whatever. Just hide and watch.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by JD on 10/5 @ 1:29 pm #
SUGARTITS !!!!!!!!
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 1:29 pm #
“Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 1:26 pm #
He couldn’t explain counterinsurgency strategy if you fed it to him on a teleprompter
Again trying to push the idea that military strategy is really, really, really!1!1!1 hard to grasp.”
And your MOS was……..
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 1:31 pm #
Obama, March 27, 2009.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 1:31 pm #
Here’s a Klew™:
“If you’re trying to get the people of Afghanistan to support you, stop killing so many of them”
is not a strategy.
Comment by JD on 10/5 @ 1:32 pm #
I love how snotnose just makes up positions for people out of thin air. Cute.
Comment by SDN on 10/5 @ 1:33 pm #
Bob, you’re arguing with a Leftard… that’s worse.
Comment by BJTexs on 10/5 @ 1:33 pm #
Ric Locke has, as usual hit the nail on the head.
Afghanistan started out as the “good war” with a majority of the very same people who later savaged Bush over Iraq (think Al Franken, John Kerry, et al.) Outside of Kucinich and a couple of other far left loons, Afghanistan made all of the sense in the world even to much of the anti-war crowd.
Now, after having buttressed the whole “good war” idea in muy macho terms, Obama has himself a real dilemma, one that is shared by the left. For him, and them, to suddenly attempt some kind of “lob cruise missiles from long range while special forces do the dirty and dangerous work” runs the risk of alienating the vast majority of voters, many of whom are already wondering about Obama’s fortitude.
The other thing that’s not getting much gab time is the so-called shrinking support in the polls. One thing we learned from the Iraqi polling is that the left (and sone of the right) don’t see the difference between those that are dissatisfied with the way a war is being prosecuted and those who don’t support the effort at all. Exit polling from the 2006 election delineated the gap between not supporting the war as it is currently configured and cutting and running. There was a reason the Dems in Congress didn’t have the cojones to cut off funding for the Iraq campaign.
This is where Obama’s biggest trap lies and it’s a far bigger trap than Bush faced in Iraq (or the congress faced with war funding.) He’s already proclaimed the righteousness of this war and has reemphasized its importance, with support from many of the same left leaning politicos who rabidly opposed Iraq. How can they “redeploy” from the right and true war and not look like a bunch of g-string wearing hypocrites? They’ll hand a solid gold bullet point to Republicans, one that even moderate to left voters can understand far more easily than the inky issues associated with Health Care Reform and Cap and Trade.
They’ll know quite clearly who to blame no matter how many square miles of “astroturf” Axelrod has laid.
I suspect that that’s what’s taking so long with regards to the report and the response. Having, as Ric pointed out, invested Afghanistan into Teh Narrative™ they are finding a veritable political minefield awaiting Sheriff Joe’s idea. Epic fail may await if they get this wrong, the sort of fail that will have far reaching effects beyond Health Care and Energy. The sorts of consequences that torpedo presidencies and mid term elections.
Good luck with that, Mr. President.
Comment by JeffS on 10/5 @ 1:33 pm #
#230, N. O’Brain…..
Sounds like Snowcone is just reviving the old Vietnam tactics.
Comment by Barrett Brown's empty ballsack on 10/5 @ 1:37 pm #
If you’re trying to get the people of Afghanistan to support you, stop killing so many of them.
So, just to be clear, you’re saying Americans soldiers are the ones killing Afghanis, not the Taliban, or insurgents, right?
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 10/5 @ 1:37 pm #
Again trying to push the idea that military strategy is really, really, really!1!1!1 hard to grasp.
If you’re trying to get the people of Afghanistan to support you, stop killing so many of them.
Simple.
Even McChrystal realizes that now.
Everything’s simple when you don’t know anything about it, jackass. If you had the intellect God gave slime mold, you’d be cognizant of that fact. If you knew anything about history, you’d guess at it. If you deigned to pause for a moment and wonder if the world might be a smidge more complicated than your lazy-ass thought processes allowed for, the journey would begin. As it stands, you’ve essentially admitted your ignorance and then declared that your ignorance doesn’t matter, because war is for teh stupid peepul. You are a mandarin, Snowcone, and you will be shocked one day to discover that you don’t have any right to rule.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 1:39 pm #
“Sounds like Snowcone is just reviving the old Vietnam tactics.”
More like the Democrats are reviving their Vietnam war tactics and are trying to lose.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 1:40 pm #
Andrew, it can’t be slime mold and a mandarin at one and the same time. Trollhammer is the ticket, with thanks to SBP.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 1:40 pm #
“The only important lesson from the Vietnam War is this: Democrats lose wars”
-Ann Coulter
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 1:40 pm #
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 12:16 pm #
Ok, that is approaching legendarily dumb as well. I have served many a year, all very comfortable with civilian authority. This has nothing to do with “grading” – this has to do with listening to the folks in uniform and then deciding that you will not do what they ask – then when things don’t work out so well, try to point the finger at them and say “they effed it up, the lousy under 80 IQ types!” And all the while sno keeps pointing out that civilian control is paramount. Indeed it is – so with the authority goes the responsibility.
When Harry Reid, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi and Jack Murtha, et al howl “we done lost!1!11″ and a year later, they have been proven quite wrong – it is a bit much for us to listen to them (or their blog commenting backers) again wail the same mournful dirge of defeat.
I’m starting to see why this Typing Telephone Pole is not worth discussing. I’ll have to go back to my own rule of not giving any attention to such obvious seekers of such.
Comment by BJTexs on 10/5 @ 1:40 pm #
Lisa!!!!!!
What up? We’ve missed you!! The quality of leftist commenting has degraded to subterranean levels!
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 1:43 pm #
Lisa, indeed we need a little more you, a lot less of the recent spate of … whatever.
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 1:45 pm #
Quick – somebody tell the TTPs they need to have Gibbs FIRED!
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9B53AL82&show_article=1
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 1:48 pm #
I would tend to agree that what goes on in the Kush will ultimately be dominated by India save for the growing regional friction between India and China. I read a BBC peice a few weeks ago about a prominent Indian soldier-cum-politician saying that India’s defenses are all concentrated on the Pakistani border, and that a defensive front, a la Maginot line, needed to be constructed along the border with China. My intuition is that at some point there will be a serious fight along that border. Just the same way my intuition has always told me that he most likely combatants in the world’s next nuclear exchange will be India-Pakistan; although the Iranians are changing that probability quickly…
Still, it’s a fact that AQ is operating in the tribal areas and Western pakistan, that AQ was founded in Pakistan, and that we’ll ultimately have to condict raids into Pakistan to get them…
Comment by Mikey NTH on 10/5 @ 1:50 pm #
I thought we were in Afghanistan because the Taliban provided a refuge for Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and refused to extradtite any of them or turn Al-Qaeda out.
The Taliban picked the wrong horse to back.
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 1:52 pm #
SDN,
You’re right!
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 1:52 pm #
Bob,
Don’t forget that China tore 20% of Kashmir off for themselves…India still remembers that.
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 10/5 @ 1:53 pm #
Andrew, it can’t be slime mold and a mandarin at one and the same time
Sure it can. To be a mandarin means to be a bureaucrat or bureaucrat-in-training, and it fits the profile to a T. For a bureaucrat to be dumber than slime mold is not only concievable, it’s the way the smart money bets.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 1:54 pm #
Mull this one over MikeyNTH: “In a sense, the minute Bush decided Afghanistan would be taken over, probably around mid-day on 9-11-01, the legend of Bush as a vindictive and reactive retard was cast.”
What would the fictional alternative have looked like?
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 1:57 pm #
I live in SW florida Andrew and have had some experience with slime molds. You are describing as slime molds things entirely unknown to me. On the other hand I have also lived in Washington DC and known many many a bureaucrat and there too, you are describing as bureaucrats creatures heretofore unknown to me.
Comment by Bob Reed on 10/5 @ 2:02 pm #
An excellent point about Kashmir that I’d forgotten Colonel John!
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 2:06 pm #
they have been proven quite wrong
Turning over Iraq to an Iranian-backed cabal is quite the victory.
But, in the interest of cutting and running, I will applaud it, but it doesn’t mean I think we should repeat said “victory” in Afghanistan.
“Another such victory, and we are undone.”
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 2:08 pm #
Yet another reason Taiwanese politicians lose sleep these days.
Comment by Topsecretk9 on 10/5 @ 2:40 pm #
Brain trust Matt Yglesias says Obama is too busy with other stuff than to meet his general. Other stuff like the Olympics and golf.
Comment by ghost707 on 10/5 @ 2:41 pm #
Roland,
Thanks for the Spengler article. He has predicted almost everything happening now with regard to U.S. monetary matters.
His classifying of Obama, some time back, as an anthropologist with regards to how he perceives America was spot on.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 10/5 @ 3:26 pm #
“Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 2:06 pm #
they have been proven quite wrong
Turning over Iraq to an Iranian-backed cabal is quite the victory.”
You’re a moron.
Comment by geoffb on 10/5 @ 3:41 pm #
#178,
His political capital is reserved for the fights he sees as with his mortal enemies. What the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, to him and his soul mates, are are means to be used to fight their real actual mortal enemy, us.
His problem right now is to find a way to use what is happening to attack his enemies or at least not allow them to be able to “use” the wars there to launch attacks upon him. That is his view of it not what I/we view it as being about. Whether we win/tie/lose the Afgan or Iraq wars only matters in their effect upon him and his political power.
From his viewpoint this is a pretty much a pickle he is in. That is why the indecision. The excursions to throw attention elsewhere. Even if he does the right thing by my lights it will be for the wrong reason.That will in the end corrupt the effort much as this current problem is caused by his original decision to fight in Afghanistan not because winning the war was a desired end but because winning the election was.
Comment by geoffb on 10/5 @ 4:01 pm #
RE: the gambling ad thing. It is there. it is in the source code for the page. At the end.
It starts with the line ( bubbleGUM-start best gambling online )then ends right before the footer with ( bubbleGUM-end )
Comment by geoffb on 10/5 @ 4:05 pm #
It is also on the “Olympics decision stuns Chicago” thread.
Comment by ghost707 on 10/5 @ 4:37 pm #
RE: geoffb #257
Yes. Obama in a nutshell. Or ACORN (heh) shell.
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 4:57 pm #
Hate to be repetitive, but would one of the trolls kindly tell us what Obama is actually doing, or has done, to alleviate the situation in Afghanistan?
160 posts later, and not one of the trolls has answered this simple question.
Nothing but Bush-bashing, deflection, spinning, and outright lying.
Remember, Obama called this a “precarious and urgent situation” during the campaign, almost a year ago.
Seems like he should’ve been working on it from Day 1 if that’s the case.
So, what’s he done? Anything? Surely he’s done something?
P.S. Hi, Lisa!
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 4:59 pm #
Looks like Jeff needs to upgrade his blog software — this one got pwned.
Comment by sdferr on 10/5 @ 5:08 pm #
Yowsa, that’s one hell of a one day story.
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 5:11 pm #
5x more, sheesh.
These people just aren’t very good at counting, are they?
Although it’s decidedly odd how the miscounted votes, dollars, whatever always wind up breaking in their favor. Most peculiar.
Comment by Ric Locke on 10/5 @ 5:18 pm #
OT: G’night all. Dunno if I’ll be dark tomorrow, but it looks like it. Thanks to those who helped.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by McGehee on 10/5 @ 5:55 pm #
Jeff’s still running WP 2.2 — the latest version is 2.8.4
Jeff, upgrading Wordpress isn’t all that difficult, and it needs to be done.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 7:38 pm #
SBP,
Don’t tell me you’ve forgotten all the extra troops Obama sent to Afghanistan earlier this year.
But that doesn’t fit the narrative, does it?
Comment by LTC John on 10/5 @ 9:35 pm #
Teh Narrative you proclaim has Obama content to let Afghanistan burn and not send anything. You are confusing your attempts to frame this. You really aren’t worth wasting pixels on anymore.
Comment by Noel on 10/5 @ 9:36 pm #
Obama got a 3 am. phone call from Afghanistan. And he will answer the phone in a month or two.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 10/5 @ 10:39 pm #
When you send 7000 and are then told that you need 40000 more, please tell me why anyone should say a big ‘thank you’ for the first 7000? You couldalso explain how that, in any way, constitutes “extra troops.”
Comment by Adjoran on 10/5 @ 10:45 pm #
It seems odd that Obama would dress down McChrystal, since the General’s remarks were vetted and approved by the White House in advance.
But I suppose when you have no clue what you are doing, yesterday’s approvals seem a very long time ago and almost irrelevant to today’s whims.
Comment by Snowcone on 10/5 @ 10:56 pm #
When you send 7000 and are then told that you need 40000 more, please tell me why anyone should say a big ‘thank you’ for the first 7000?
The cost Bush’s Afghanistan adventure has tripled in the past year.
How about a big thanks to the taxpayers of America?
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 11:03 pm #
How about a big thanks to the taxpayers of America?
I see RTO has already answered you, NippleNut.
Comment by SBP on 10/5 @ 11:04 pm #
BTW, I seriously doubt if you’ve ever “paid taxes” in your life.
Comment by Blind Howling Moonbat on 10/6 @ 4:45 am #
He is not the Fearless Surrender Monkey we thought he was.
Comment by Rusty on 10/6 @ 5:17 am #
Hi Lisa. missed you.
Since we need a chance to build barracks, you might want to consider volunteering as a contractor.
Funny you should mention that, shotgun. Because I have these mad mechanical skilz I applied through a subcontractor to go to Iraq and help rebuild. $98,000 tax free base pay was the incentive. Turns out they weren’t looking for out of shape, past middle age welders, but I did get an opportunity to brush up on my pipe welding skills. How about you, shotgun? When you goin’?
Comment by Bravo Romeo Delta on 10/6 @ 7:22 am #
Ok, this is probably well past the sell-by date, but I do think McChrystal did do a bad thing by stepping out of the chain of command. If a Maj. somewhere in east dirkastan had gone to NBC to make a case that Bush’s strategy in Iraq was wrong and that they weren’t getting enough MRAPs or whatever, that would have been poor. When the civilian side is short on clue points, tt’s a downside to civilian control of the military, but you go to war with the Constitution you have, not the Constitution you want to have.
Comment by sdferr on 10/6 @ 7:32 am #
Did you see Uber Pig’s send up of liberal law professor Bruce Ackerman’s WaPo Op-ed BRD? ‘Twas pretty funny.
I don’t think McChrystal had gone out of the chain of command though as I read his appearance in London and speech had been forwarded and reviewed by the White House without objection. He did answer questions asked at the conference though. Further, he wasn’t making the case, as in your analogy, that Obama’s strategy in Afghanistan is wrong, but on the contrary, that Obama’s announced strategy is right.
Comment by Bravo Romeo Delta on 10/6 @ 7:46 am #
The approval by the White House is a technicality, essentially. McChrystal is going public in a pretty big way and has been doing so for a bit, in an effort to force the White House’s hand on this to get more troops. I think more troops are essential, I think Obama is a goof if he doesn’t send him, and I find some of this ‘outrage’ a bit preposterous, but the point remains, according to my lights, McChrystal is a bit out of line on this.
Comment by sdferr on 10/6 @ 7:53 am #
If not technically out of line then, politically out of line you mean, in other words, not as a matter of disobedience to proper command? Well then, schade, I guess, for the outmaneuvered President. On the other hand, hurrah for the President’s good sense in emplacing McChrystal in authority in Kabul!
Comment by Andrew the Noisy on 10/6 @ 7:53 am #
Ultimately, Bravo, the President is the CinC, and can do as he pleases. He can cashier McChrystal tommorrow without and not be gainsaid by anything other than his conscience. And I take the point that airing the dirty laundry is not quite cricket. But damn me if I don’t sympathize with the general as opposed to our callow Wonder Prez.
Comment by Bravo Romeo Delta on 10/6 @ 7:58 am #
Andrew, I’m pretty much with you, and I don’t think that Obama would be too far out of line for firing a guy who is trying to do an end run around him. I do sympathize with the general. But I was pissed about the Iran NIE that basically did to Bush what McChrystal is doing to Obama, and that’s undermining the authority of the POTUS and CinC.
Comment by sdferr on 10/6 @ 8:05 am #
“…the Iran NIE that basically did to Bush what McChrystal is doing to Obama”
That is where you go wrong though BRD. McChrystal is not trying to undermine the President’s stated strategy for Afghanistan, he is trying to implement it. Jeez man, get a grip.
Comment by Pablo on 10/6 @ 8:19 am #
And having been selected by Obama to do just that it’s quite understandable. I’d say the more egregious action is McChrystal floating the notion that he’s about ready to resign. An even more severe undermining of the CinC would be if he were to do so.
Comment by sdferr on 10/6 @ 8:21 am #
“…McChrystal floating the notion”
See, I don’t know that he did that at all. He may have used proxies to do that, it is true, but he may also have had nothing to do with it. I can’t know one way or the other. Nor can anyone not actually involved.
Comment by sdferr on 10/6 @ 8:27 am #
On slight reflection, what I think I see is that BRD’s analog with the NIE is upside down. It isn’t McChrystal trying to undermine the President’s stated stance on Afghanistan/Pakistan strategy [in the role of the CIA contra Bush] but Obama trying(?) to undermine Obama’s stated strategy on Af/Pak [as if Bush were in the role of the CIA, saying, "oh, American people, you know that Iranian nuke weapons program I told you about? Nevermind.]
Comment by sdferr on 10/6 @ 8:33 am #
Here’s another view of McChrystal’s argument, mediated by Jen Rubin, from Michael O’Hanlon: A General Within Bounds.
Comment by LTC John on 10/6 @ 9:25 am #
Hmmmm… Talib boss sez: “He also described his group’s relationship to al-Qaida as one of “love and affection.” Osama bin Laden and other top al-Qaida leaders are believed to be hiding out in the remote border region with Afghanistan, possibly in territory controlled by Hakimullah.”
Guess there is no ties between the two, eh? I blame the last President.
Comment by BravoRomeoDelta on 10/6 @ 11:12 am #
I’d buy O’Hanlon’s read on it as being pretty solid, I think.
It appears to me that the highest ranks of military leadership have (if possible) gotten even more politicized over the last twenty or so years. In another twenty or so years, I wouldn’t want to see a situation where a theater commander starts playing political theater (by lambasting a future president) during a campaign season to secure themselves some sort of political favors. So, hence my sensitivity to such kind of things.
Comment by sdferr on 10/6 @ 12:16 pm #
So who is looking for political favors in the current events?
Comment by JeffS on 10/6 @ 5:50 pm #
While he isn’t my favorite general, Shinseki pulled a similar stunt during the run up to the Iraq invasion, over the number of troops on the ground. Shinseki was right and wrong in what he did, IMHO.
Not that I’m agreeing or disagreeing with Shinseki; that’s a different matter. It’s just an example of a flag officer working the political angl, although BRD has the right of it in that regards. The idea gives me the willies as well.
But an interesting point does arise in this example: back then, Shinseki was loudly supported by members of Congress……mostly Democrat, IIRC. And not a few talking heads on the news network, plus the usual pundits.
With McChrystal and Obama? Not so much, hmmmmmmmm? Of course, the Shinseki story involved Bush……
Comment by LTC John on 10/6 @ 8:50 pm #
BRD – I am not sure I agree. NOBODY is as political as Wesley Clark – and that was the late 1990s. Even Bill Clinton turned around and let him have more time to spend with his family…
Shinseki was just following the Powell doctrine – “I want 100,000,000,000 troops and elventy billion tanks. Then I may consider advancing.” [Note: exaggeration for effect being employed! Watch back blast area up to 50 meters!]
Comment by Rusty on 10/7 @ 7:04 pm #
#291
It worked for Mcclellan. No! Wait! It worked for Montgomery. Yes. I’m pretty sure it worked for Monty, but only once.
Comment by Roland THTG on 10/8 @ 8:02 am #
With the media now banging the drum to bail on A-stan, I believe we will be redeploying next spring, after the traditional Spring Offensive.