‘… but we’ll remove it anyway.’
Chris Kelly at HuffPo whines and slimes.
Hey Chris, Sarah Palin put “death panel” in quotes for a reason. The same way others like WaPo and William Jacobson found a bit of fire under the smoke.
Putz.
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August 14, 2009
‘You all are lying … ‘ [Darleen Click]
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Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 7:27 am #
The words death panels are not in the bill(s) you lying wingnut liars.
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 7:37 am #
The whole idea would not be so easy to believe were it not for the Science Czar that is a eugenecist, Rahm’s bro specifically talking about people’s relative value of life, and rationing being the inevitable result of socialized medicine. Oh, and that panel they already establshed under the “Stimulus” package.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 8/14 @ 7:50 am #
Interesting how abortion legislation is “regulating uteruses”, while figurative descriptions coming from the other direction are absolutely verboten. Lies, even.
Comment by Eben on 8/14 @ 7:52 am #
The best part of your HuffPo link is that when you scroll down on the page you can see the list of their most popular stories on the right and at the top of that list is the Miss Universe swimsuit competition.
Guess we know where their attentions are focused like a laser beam.
Comment by joey buzz on 8/14 @ 7:56 am #
Sarah P. doing the work RINOs wont even consider. If this crap sandwich passes it will be one small bit easier to swallow thanks to her. No on to the next BS provision.
Comment by joey buzz on 8/14 @ 7:57 am #
sorry No should have been Now/\
Comment by Old Texas Turkey on 8/14 @ 8:18 am #
Yup. I left this over at gatewaypundit, re: Sarah:
She;s pretty damn smart that Palin lady. My wife, who is a committed Obama supporter, all but declared Palin’s political career over when she resigned.
My thesis was such:
She is a lightening rod now, because she draws fire from the unhinged left in a nanosecond. Watch her capitalize on that.
The minute I saw the “death panel” quote, I realized my thesis is being proven correct. Madam Palin has the room to throw stuff out there that calls out the insidious plans of democrats and calls it for what it is. No partisanship or PC pussy footing is needed. Then force them to defend it. And the “crazy, kooky discredited gov” line ain’t gonna work as a response. Look at how she brought that despicable skeletor Emanuel to light and then forced them to eat their own turd.
Watch out for more of this to some. Wait until she goes after the big guns. She’s gonna be the equivalent of a 100million citizens running a referendum on Congress (both sides) and making them uncomfortable.
GO SARAH GO.
Comment by Old Texas Turkey on 8/14 @ 8:20 am #
The Senate may have removed it, but its still in HR3200. And they can sneak it back in during conference.
Comment by Bob Reed on 8/14 @ 8:26 am #
You know, isn’t it funny how a providion that supposedly didn’t exist, that was merely A LIE! being told by THAT OAFISH RUBE QUITTER! Palin, could be removed from the pending bill in the Senate..?
Funny strange, not funny ha-ha…
What’s really troubling is the integral plausible deniability foir essentially the same thing that will exist if Obamacare is passed in just about any form, owing to the FCCCER “star chamber” that was included in the spendulus.
Funny times we live in…
Comment by gregorbo on 8/14 @ 8:26 am #
Meanwhile, in Florida, they’d nabbed a “suspect” in the Obama Joker-poster mystery and are determining how much “damage” has been done to public and private property and which local, state, and federal laws have been broken by telling the truth, er, by speech that is critical to the POTUS . . .
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-obama-joker-suspect-081309,0,4959018.story
Comment by Bob Reed on 8/14 @ 8:30 am #
Nice find gregorbo,
I wonder if the same officials were as concerned when/if the BusHitler! signs were put up..?
I guess ‘feets better lay low in LA!
Comment by fwar on 8/14 @ 8:54 am #
“Hey Chris, Sarah Palin put “death panel” in quotes for a reason. ”
Because she made them up. That was before she was for them, by the way.
Comment by geoffb on 8/14 @ 8:58 am #
One of the things which is vital to have a military that can fight through the worst of situations is the concept, motto, belief of “Leave no man behind”. That when you are personally most vulnerable, exposed, helpless, others, even ones who have never met you, will be making every effort to come to your aid. That is a powerful thing to have on your side. It is a well from which hope springs in the darkest time. It is something which cannot be evaluated by the bean counting method. That way would lead to a short term saving and long term total loss.
In families there is similar basic promise. It is laid out in the marriage vows. “For better or for worse. In sickness and in health. Till death do us part.” That when we are most weak, most vulnerable, someone who loves us will be there come hell or high water to do what can be done, even more than is thought that “can be” done to help us. This also cannot be evaluated by bean counting. Hope, love, faith, trust, these are not economic values but breaking with them will have devastating effects, even economic ones in the end.
This is what breaks in “single payer healthcare”, Government healthcare, everywhere it has been done. Trust, hope, love, faith, family, are replaced with “prove to the agency you are worth it” and “who sent you”.
Breaking the bonds of trust that weave our society together is what every move, every bill, every “czar”, every word spoken by this administration is aimed at doing. Damn them.
Comment by MarkJ on 8/14 @ 9:03 am #
fwar,
Sarah was (and still is) for VOLUNTARY counseling. The bill directed MANDATORY “counseling.”
On Planet Moonbat, fwar, do you and your good-time buddies understand the difference between VOLUNTARY and MANDATORY…or are they simply one and the same to y’all?
Nice try, old boy, but no Macanudo “Duke of Wellington” for you.
Comment by Eben on 8/14 @ 9:05 am #
lulz
It must really chap your hide to have the intent of your prized legislation be intentionally mischaracterized! ‘Cause, you know, that never happens to Repubs!
Comment by Joe on 8/14 @ 9:06 am #
There goes the chance to cash in Grandma for cash. I actually like Grandma, but I have a couple of uncles I would not mind trading in.
Comment by bigbooner on 8/14 @ 9:45 am #
“On Planet Moonbat, fwar, do you and your good-time buddies understand the difference between VOLUNTARY and MANDATORY…or are they simply one and the same to y’all?”…..
I could swear that somewhere I saw something about mandatory voluntary service of some kind here in the good old USA. So mebbe they really are the same in some sort of alternate universe kinda thing. Obamaworld or something.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 8/14 @ 9:57 am #
Eugenics originated with and has always been wildly popular with the reactionary left.
See Sanger, Margaret; Wilson, Woodrow; Hitler, Adolf
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 9:58 am #
Stinkfinger is playing the “look over there, something shiny, I hate Palin” game.
Comment by Eben on 8/14 @ 9:59 am #
She’s a little for voluntary discussions if it’s for grannies and retards
fixed
Comment by Ella on 8/14 @ 9:59 am #
I’m with you, Texas Turkey. They’ll simply move it to another section of the bill or reintroduce it in the conference bill. Death panels are already common in every other country with socialized medicine; it’s the only way to keep the system halfway working.
And Oregon is the state that is refusing a lady cancer treatment but will pay for her “voluntary” assisted-suicide. So it’s beyond insulting for the Oregon rep who introduced that part of the bill to act all shocked at the idea of cost-cutting death panels. That’s a feature, not a bug!
Comment by Ric Locke on 8/14 @ 10:02 am #
The longer I live, the more I think we didn’t appreciate Kurt Vonnegut (the Founding Moonbat) enough.
Of course he got some details wrong. We don’t have many Howard Johnson’s left. Maybe Starbucks would do.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 10:03 am #
The OUTRAGE over “death panels” is because they got called out on it.
Comment by Eben on 8/14 @ 10:05 am #
Of course, lost in all this debate is the absolute creepiness of a guy who’s first thought, when looking at his grandmother needing a medical procedure, is a cost-benefit analysis of performing said procedure.
Not that he’s looking at your granny and thinking the same thing…
Comment by geoffb on 8/14 @ 10:06 am #
New York Times Doesn’t Read Its Own Healthcare Horror Articles and Stinkfinger can’t seem to understand basic English. Congratulations you can work for the New York Times and receive the adulation you crave.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 8/14 @ 10:07 am #
“#Comment by Stinkfinger on 8/14 @ 9:42 am #”
You musta missed the ‘whereas’ where people are to be rounded up by the Alaskan State Police and forced into “counseling”.
Comment by The Monster on 8/14 @ 10:27 am #
Lefties don’t see the difference between voluntary actions taken by individuals, in consulation with family, friends, clergy, etc.; and decisions made by experts annointed by government; except to the extent that they think the latter do a better job of it.
Therefore, when Palin advocated voluntary decisions, she was just doing a half-assed job of what Obama is trying to push on us. Why listen to her; her heart isn’t really in it! Get the guy who believes hard he can make us better.
Well, I don’t hold to that. I aim to misbehave.
Comment by fwar on 8/14 @ 10:34 am #
“Sarah was (and still is) for VOLUNTARY counseling. The bill directed MANDATORY “counseling.” ”
She was for encouraging it. Which is what the washington post found fishy. BTW: the bill doesn’t make the counseling mandatory. It mandates what the counseling must consist of if it is to be covered by Medicare.
Comment by Lost My Cookies on 8/14 @ 10:48 am #
Look, it’s all well and good for Alaskans to be able to decide for themselves who goes on the ice floe and when, they have ice floes at the ready, nearly all the time. Not like us, we have to drop our old people into a nursing home that is far enough away from the route to Whole Foods that we don’t feel guilty every time we have to pick up a bunch of arugula and a sixer of Bud Light. Think of the greenhouse gasses we’ll save if we don’t have to drive those extra three miles to avoid passing the Golden Pines. Think of the CHILDREN
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 10:53 am #
fwar – Aggressively ignorant or willfully obtuse?
Comment by SDN on 8/14 @ 10:55 am #
Lying Lefty Trolls, the “death panels” have already been created in the Stimulus Bill which has ALREADY PASSED.
Comment by SDN on 8/14 @ 10:56 am #
Let’s try that link again.
Comment by fwar on 8/14 @ 11:06 am #
“Lying Lefty Trolls, the “death panels” have already been created in the Stimulus Bill which has ALREADY PASSED.”
Not to mention the 2003 medicare bill. The one the GOP worked so hard for.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/08/13/oh-those-death-panels/
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 11:07 am #
Aggressively ignorant, I see.
Comment by Pablo on 8/14 @ 11:15 am #
Dear God, you’re a stupid one, fwar. Little known fact about people with terminal illnesses: They’re DYING.
Comment by Bill R on 8/14 @ 11:20 am #
The idea of “Death Panels” didn’t come from Sarah Palin. It canme from Barak Obama himself. Here he is explaining the concept in an April interview in the New York Times.
___________________________________
THE PRESIDENT: … If somebody told me that my grandmother couldn’t have a hip replacement and she had to lie there in misery in the waning days of her life – that would be pretty upsetting.
LEONHARDT: And it’s going to be hard for people who don’t have the option of paying for it.
THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?
I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.
LEONHARDT: So how do you – how do we deal with it?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.
________________________________
It’s interesting that the president excludes clergy from the “panels” and instead includes “ethicists”. The most prominent “ethicist” in America is a Princeton professor named Peter Singer. Singer believes, among other things, that it’s immoral to use animals for food but quite OK to use them for sex. He’s an avid proponent of abortion, euthanasia, and infanticide. Here’s just one of the many charming quotes from America’s leading “ethicist”.
“killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person”
Wonderful.
Comment by Rusty on 8/14 @ 11:27 am #
#30 Which means, since everyone will be on a single payer system, it’s mandatory.
No government has ever done anything efficiently except wage war. What in the world makes anyone think that any government including ours can do a better job than private industry? The government cannot even deliver first class mail without losing money. And they have a monopoly on delivering first class mail!
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 11:30 am #
Bill – I do not see how what you quoted verbatim could lead an honest person to arrive at death panels or rationing of care.
Comment by fwar on 8/14 @ 11:43 am #
“Dear God, you’re a stupid one, fwar. Little known fact about people with terminal illnesses: They’re DYING.”
We’re all going to die. But did you see this? “Section 1233 would expand funding so that people could voluntarily receive counseling before they become terminally ill.”
ZOMG DEATH PANELS FOR THE NOT YET DYING! Somoene tell JD.
Comment by Pablo on 8/14 @ 11:46 am #
Ah, so you noticed the difference! Good for you. There may be HOPE.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 8/14 @ 11:49 am #
“#Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 10:53 am #
fwar – Aggressively ignorant or willfully obtuse?”
Yes.
Comment by fwar on 8/14 @ 11:53 am #
“Ah, so you noticed the difference! ”
Even the non-terminally ill can still benefit from living wills. My parents have them. I’m happy that if any accidents occur, I don’t have to make decisions that might not reflect what they want. I know what they want will be in those living wills. Because they’ve been before the DEATH PANEL.
Comment by geoffb on 8/14 @ 11:56 am #
It’s interesting that all of it is about, panels, councils, committees, groups. Individuals die. Individuals are the ones who should make the decisions. Those decisions should always be made as close to the individual level as can be done. That is where the best, most pertinent information exists.
Every move that takes those decisions to a “higher” more generalized level loses information, loses touch with the person who actually affected. Voluntarily making the decisions about “living wills” DNR orders, yourself or by the closest family members in the case of incapacitation is one thing. Government’s only role in that is to make sure that the decisions are those the affected individual wanted and to, in cases of uncertainty, have the error be on the side of life not death.
These things in this and other single payer systems always error on the side of death. Death being cheaper, convenient, a useful and final solution to medical costs.
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 11:56 am #
Fwar – Bill R laid out Barcky’s own fucking words on this. Coupled with his eugenecist science czar, and Rahmbo’s bro advising him given his clearly stated positions on this matter, how can you deny that this would in fact happen?
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 11:59 am #
Never mind. My next door neighbor’s hairless rat dog has turds that are smarter and more honest than this fuckwad.
Comment by gregorbo on 8/14 @ 12:08 pm #
You know–death panels or voluntary “end of life” (legally binding) documents. Huh. They’re open to interpretation, folks, and once the government is the one doing the writing of the document itself, you’ll find immediately that family members’ opinions about what the document means will weigh less than the government’s opinion about what the document means. Your mother said “No extraordinary measures.” What are those? Who wins the argument when you say to the gov’t run hospital, “But those aren’t ‘extra-ordinary’ measures!!!” And they say, “Oh, but we think they are. . .”
Comment by Joe on 8/14 @ 12:08 pm #
Margaret Sanger would approve of Obama. Well, except for the fact Obama is a member of one of her designated undesirable mongrel mud races, Sanger could not stand dirty garlic eating WOPs, Jews, or Eastern Europeans let alone coloreds.
Margaret Sanger’s December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Original source: Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon’s Woman’s Body, Woman’s Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.
Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review.
Margaret Sanger. Speech quoted in Birth Control: What It Is, How It Works, What It Will Do. The Proceedings of the First American Birth Control Conference. Held at the Hotel Plaza, New York City, November 11-12, 1921. Published by the Birth Control Review, Gothic Press, pages 172 and 174 [Paging Conservative Christianists and Sarah Palin!]
Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922 [It is almost like she knew Andrew Sullivan!].
Comment by cranky-d on 8/14 @ 12:09 pm #
I respectfully dispute that statement. Governments generally don’t wage war efficiently. The can do it effectively. Wars are usually wildly expensive things to do. However, one could argue, since wars are all about destruction, that governments are very good at them.
Comment by Carin on 8/14 @ 12:12 pm #
Of course, lost in all this debate is the absolute creepiness of a guy who’s first thought, when looking at his grandmother needing a medical procedure, is a cost-benefit analysis of performing said procedure.
Not that he’s looking at your granny and thinking the same thing…
Erm, what that his first thought? Or, was HIS first thought to do everything they can. For his family – he’s not considering that pain pill.
That’s the medicine for the proles.
Comment by DarthRove on 8/14 @ 1:44 pm #
Face it, fwar. Schtoopid Sarah Palin flung the “Death Panel” label at your oh-so-smart Ivy League Ubermenchen, and it’s sticking. The more the proggs try to wipe it off their feet, the more they spread that anti-Obamacare around.
Getting one put over on you by gun-toting bible-thumping rube chillbillies sucks, don’t it?
Comment by dicentra on 8/14 @ 1:56 pm #
I have a question:
Is there ANYTHING, anything at all, in these five infernal bills that is worth passing?
One provision? One section?
Why do I suspect not? If the public option goes missing, don’t the rest of the provisions lose their raison d’etre?
Comment by psycho... on 8/14 @ 2:02 pm #
All laws are all bad. Every one of them is all of them, ever. Give ‘em an inch, etc. No exceptions.
Against the people it rules, yes. No government has ever bothered to get its shit together enough to kill tens of millions of other guys. That’s like work.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 8/14 @ 2:04 pm #
Oh and all of the big, big money that preventative care will save?
Krauthammer craps all over that fantasy:
Let’s see, now. Taxes won’t close the gap and neither will preventative medicine. Well then the only thing left is either rationing or … or … Tort Reform!
Yup, fwar, that last link is from Daily Kos quoting … Charles Krauthammer!
What has the Congress done on Tort reform as a part of this bill?
[crickets]
!CHANGE THAT BANKRUPTS YER ASS!
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 8/14 @ 2:10 pm #
But why, fwar, has there been no Tort Reform? Well the Trial Lawyers of America are top five givers to the Dems so no hope there. Republicans either believe that the states should handle it (a pretty reasonable position) and, not so reasonable, most Republican legislators are also … lawyers!
A pox on both of their houses.
BTW: Charles Krauthammer actually has been a medical researcher and has a bit more “authority” than fake doctors in Houston.
Comment by McGehee on 8/14 @ 2:13 pm #
The very idea that a new multi-trillion-dollar entitlement program will save money is so profoundly dishonest that it has torn open a rift in the space-time continuum and admitted beings from a strange parallel dimension.
Example: fwar.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 8/14 @ 2:24 pm #
The argument is simple, McG: HEALTH CARE IS BANKRUPTING OUR COUNTRY SO WE HAVE TO BANKRUPT OUR COUNTRY WITH HEALTH CARE REFORM! FOR THE PEOPLESES!!
It’s like Bizarro World welcomes the Marx Brothers to South Park.
Comment by Abe Froman on 8/14 @ 2:34 pm #
This isn’t about improving healthcare or lowering costs, it is about an abstract principle of universal coverage and any amount of lying is forgivable in order to achieve it. The moonbats are not at all pleased with the Whole Foods CEO whose WSJ commentary Darleen linked yesterday. Funny to see a man who symbolizes one pillar of their creepy secular religion thrown to the wolves for falling out of line with regard to one of the others. Not the shrewdest business move on his part considering his customer loyalty is predicated on the same emotion-based stupidity that animates the left in the healthcare fight.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 8/14 @ 2:46 pm #
“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.”
— Tom Clancy
Comment by N. O'Brain on 8/14 @ 2:47 pm #
“An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.”
-Robert A. Heinlein
Comment by Abe Froman on 8/14 @ 2:50 pm #
#59 looks like I linked to the WSJ commentary from yesterday but is actually an article about the left’s reaction to it. My bad.
Comment by happyfeet on 8/14 @ 2:59 pm #
If you ever doubted that gay marriage was simply a tool for dirty socialist outreach and energizing and fundraising that helped enormously in the prosecution of its media campaign geared toward branding Republicans as intolerant freaky deaky Christians, particularly among yoot, and thought it maybe had something to do with rights for the poor long-suffering unwed gay peoples you can stop wondering.
Comment by Mattm on 8/14 @ 3:02 pm #
Mark Steyn:
In the normal course of events, the process takes a while. But Obama believes in “the fierce urgency of now”, and fierce it is. That’s where all the poor befuddled sober centrists who can’t understand why the Democrats keep passing incoherent 1,200-page bills every week are missing the point. If “health care” were about health care, the devil would be in the details. But it’s not about health or costs or coverage; it’s about getting over the river and burning the bridge. It doesn’t matter what form of governmentalized health care gets passed as long as it passes. Once it’s in place, it will be “reformed”, endlessly, but it will never be undone.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 8/14 @ 3:02 pm #
Heh, Abe. One of the boy cotters pretty much sums up the level of critical thinking coming from the advocates of the bloated crap pile:
There it is. In the face of trillion dollar deficits and no assurances of cost savings Mr. Lent just doesn’t care. The ends, no matter how draconian, justify the means.
this is why people of Lent’s ilk should never run … well … anything!
Comment by Mattm on 8/14 @ 3:03 pm #
http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/2341/26/
Comment by happyfeet on 8/14 @ 3:10 pm #
oh. I will need to go to Whole Foods this weekend. Probably just the crappy Sherman Oaks one. I think it’s even smaller than the original one in Austin, but the people what go are a lot a lot hotter than the dirty hippies you used to see at the little Clarksville one. I don’t feel like going there really now that I think about it.
Comment by sdferr on 8/14 @ 3:34 pm #
Huh. Some prize.
Hey, Mr/Mrs/Ms game show contestant! You have just won an enormously large and useless object! Aren’t you excited? Here, we’ll help you out with that. How’s about we place it in the middle of your front yard ofr you?
Good. There. See anybody else with one? Of course not, cause you are special.
Now don’t forget to pay your taxes on your winnings. Wouldn’t want you going to the hoosegow on account of a silly oversight.
Comment by Danger on 8/14 @ 3:46 pm #
In line with the issue BJT raised is this http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/tort-reform-aids-health-lowers-cost-why-isnt-it-in-obamacare/
Comment by happyfeet on 8/14 @ 4:02 pm #
Dan has a new new site it is here you should click
Comment by dicentra on 8/14 @ 4:08 pm #
No government has ever done anything efficiently except wage war.
Wrong. If waging war were a private enterprise, it would be MUCH more efficient. That’s why the gubmint relies heavily on contractors: they’ll do things more efficiently and better. And contractors can be fired. (I should know; I was.)
But there’s no way that the government should outsource war to the private sector entirely. I think we can all agree on that.
Comment by Rusty on 8/14 @ 4:16 pm #
#71
The point being that all the resources of the federal government are focused on that single goal, by the most professional people in its ranks, and there is still a phenomenal amount of waste.
Nobody can claim there will be savings. Nobody can claim there won’t be sacrifices. SWhat they aren’t telling everybody is that this isn’t about healthcare, it’s about control.
Comment by Ric Locke on 8/14 @ 4:22 pm #
dicentra, one of the problems with that is that, in war, effective and efficent are antonyms — they directly contradict one another. The whole point of a “weapon” is to direct an excess of energy at the opponent, to the point that it overwhelms any capacity to absorb it.
And the trouble deriving from that is overgeneralization. Governments, whose primary business is war (either prosecuting or avoiding same), tend to apply “fustest with the mostest” to domains where it isn’t appropriate.
*sigh* I really, really wish some conservative(s) with the ear of the public would start pointing out that we aren’t, in principle, against feeding the naked, housing the sick, or treating the homeless; it’s that the only instrument you have available to do that is Government, and the only thing Government is good at is deliberate waste.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by happyfeet on 8/14 @ 4:28 pm #
In an America where Larry Kudlow is doing rah rah cheerleady pom pom dances for Cash for Clunkers at National Review I’d say it’s pretty much a lost cause Mr. Locke. Our little country been eat up with dumb. It’s sad to watch.
Comment by cranky-d on 8/14 @ 4:33 pm #
Wait until half of those people who bought new cars under the Cash for Clunkers program default on their loans. Oh, wait, this won’t be mentioned in Obama’s America. Neato.
Comment by geoffb on 8/14 @ 5:20 pm #
Obamacare.
Twice the price, half the service.
The care you’ll only buy with a gun to your head.
“Over my dead body”. It’s not just a slogan anymore.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 8/14 @ 5:34 pm #
#13 geoffb:
Till death do us part. I always think that line of the vow makes more ‘intellectual’ sense when death is personified, i.e. the Grim Reaper; an actual force parting a union. I think it is more forceful viewed that way.
Newt Gingrich has an article on how Sarah Palin can come back as a political player. It is good, but it is, I think, old-fashioned. One of Mrs. Palin’s strengths is how she connects with people. She has charisma, she is an ‘It Girl’. I think her use of FaceBook is brilliant, because it lets her connect directly without a filter, it permits her to do an end-run around all gatekeepers and speak directly to people.
And she used it to brilliant effect this past week. Health Care, Health Insurance reform – as a broad, sweeping program – has died again. She ‘personalized the enemy’, and ‘fixed it into place’.
Alinsky would be proud of that; as would Liddell-Hart.
Comment by gregorbo on 8/14 @ 5:34 pm #
I love this: “The president says his intent was not to target all big [insurance]companies. He said some, like Aetna, are working with the administration on overhaul. But he said others are spending money to oppose his efforts to remake the system.”
(http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/14/obamas-health-care-quest-heads-west/ )
Translation: Chicago Politics.
Just like the 95%+ car dealerships closed down owned by non-contributors to the Obama campaign and/or the DNC, the “only” insurance companies targeted by the White House are those, unlike Aetna, who are “spending money to oppose” Obama.
See how that works, folks?
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 8/14 @ 5:42 pm #
“The very idea that a new multi-trillion-dollar entitlement program will save money is so profoundly dishonest that it has torn open a rift in the space-time continuum and admitted beings from a strange parallel dimension.”
The “Progressive Combine”?
Gordon Freeman, please call your office.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 8/14 @ 5:46 pm #
#38:
An ethicist is a person that can explain why what you want to do is conscienable; i.e., you can still sleep at night.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 8/14 @ 5:54 pm #
#55:
And I think the reason for that thinking is looking at public health measures (sanitation, clean water, extermination of known vermin-vectors) and extrapolating that too individual conditions.
Cholera, typhus, yellow fever, polio – that is one thing that broad application does work. Diabetes? It isn’t a contagion, broad applications won’t work. Focusing on people whose family has a history of diabetes? That’s another thing altogether.
Comment by Salt Lick on 8/14 @ 5:57 pm #
I was just watching David Brooks get his weekly pummeling from Mark Shields and Jim Lehrer and Brooks dissed Palin and Rush, of course, and then said we needed to consider end of life matters and then said, “I am for death panels.” He really said it.
Comment by gregorbo on 8/14 @ 5:57 pm #
Universalize your maxim: Ethically, if you chanced upon an old woman who had fallen down and smashed her skull on an onld army footlocker in her garage (as I did one Saturday afternoon–my across the street neighbor, I was mowing my lawn when he 90 year old husband waved to me to cross the street), would you (a) ask her or her family members to fill out a form regarding her fittedness for survivability or her worthiness of survival based upon her utilitarian “use” to society or (b) help her?
If your answer is (a), then you are for Obama’s version of universal healthcare. If your answer is (b), you are against it.
Flag me!
Comment by happyfeet on 8/14 @ 5:59 pm #
I am for death panels what apply to people that receive dirty socialist health care. I think it’s only honest.
Comment by cranky-d on 8/14 @ 6:00 pm #
#80 So if you call in an ethicist, you’re already damned then? That sounds about right to me.
Comment by Lamontyoubigdummy on 8/14 @ 6:01 pm #
I’m apparently to late to the party to respond to the titan goalpoast moving, moral equivelance boob that is fwar, but…the Palin “suggested end-of-life counciling” was mostly about living wills.
Ya know…choice.
As opposed to Obama/Pelosi/Reid/Emanuel:
“Look old-timer, that bypass and pacemaker will only keep you alive for another decade or so, and they’re awful expensive. I mean come on, you’ve had a good run right? You married, had kids and whatnot. Shoot, you even got that Medal of Honor thingy over there in one of those Koreas. As a duly appointed non-political counselor and bean counter, I’m gonna have to say no to those procedures. But buck up. Here’s a pain pill on Uncle Sam.”
Comment by gregorbo on 8/14 @ 6:06 pm #
And the point is not whether resources are currently “rationed” or “allocated” in a free market. The point is that in a single-payer environment, any other option is eliminated. It is currently illegal in Canada, for instance, for MD’s to accept money for any care listed on the Government’s list of “covered” treatments. Illegal. So, they’ve got the “rich” covered. Even if you can afford a procedure for which you are denied, you are not allowed to simply pay for it inside the system. You have to go to another country for that procedure, if you can afford it–which is why Cleveland has such a lively Canadian hip-replacement trade. There are outfits that specialize in vacation-style hip-replacement packages that include the surgery plus Cruise-style hotel and food, gambling, and nightly dinner shows!
Flag me!
Comment by geoffb on 8/14 @ 6:25 pm #
The indirect approach is the most direct path to victory.
I’d add William T. Sherman to your listing. Cutting yourself free from all the excess baggage and driving a stake into the enemies heart.
Comment by newrouter on 8/14 @ 6:28 pm #
belize the health care country for n. america
Comment by geoffb on 8/14 @ 6:29 pm #
enemy’s arrgghh!
Comment by Mikey NTH on 8/14 @ 6:37 pm #
#88 geoffb:
Liddell-Hart mentioned Sherman as a great practicioner of the indirect approach. Think of it like ‘island hopping’.
Comment by geoffb on 8/14 @ 7:30 pm #
Thanks Mikey NTH. It’s been a while since I’d read “The Indirect Approach”. Be nice to talk in person next week.
Comment by fwar on 8/14 @ 8:14 pm #
“Bill R laid out Barcky’s own fucking words on this. Coupled with his eugenecist science czar, and Rahmbo’s bro advising him given his clearly stated positions on this matter”
But neither Obama nor his science czar wrote this part of the bill. There’s lots of opinions going on out there. Many based on this or that position that obama or someone else has taken before. Few based on what we know the bill language does. I’d rather stick to whats before congress.
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 8:26 pm #
Fuck yourself with a swordfish you dishonest little fucker. The panel was already passed in the stimulus and recovery act that was not designed to stimulate or recover. Plus, rationing is th only logical outcome, and is part and parcel of all government run healthcare. But you are just a dishonest little fucking fucker what fucks goats.
Comment by fwar on 8/14 @ 8:26 pm #
“Is there ANYTHING, anything at all, in these five infernal bills that is worth passing?”
If these end up passing that would be pretty good at helping Palins grandma and her baby with a disability:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-insurance-consumer-protections/
Comment by Rusty on 8/14 @ 8:27 pm #
Ezakeil(?) Emanuel had a lot of input in the bill. What do you find about government control that is so admirable?
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 8:28 pm #
Fwar babbles just like meyo/RD/name du jour
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 8:52 pm #
In order to hold fwar’s position, one must ignore all prior positions held by the parties involved, and actually reverse those positions. Additionally, one must ignore the known results of the implementation of the system they advocate. Essentially, one must deny reality, declare white black.
Denounced, bitches.
Comment by Mel on 8/14 @ 9:02 pm #
I see this fwar is another one of the young hipsters who find all this talk of cost savings easy as it doesn’t apply to them…yet. One day fwar you’ll be as old as I am. What you do to my generation will be visited upon you ten fold.
Enjoy your cost savings, fwar. One day you’ll be on the other side of the equation.
Comment by fwar on 8/14 @ 9:07 pm #
“The panel was already passed in the stimulus and recovery act that was not designed to stimulate or recover”
That’s comparative effectiveness. Different from the living will stuff that palin was facebooking.
“I see this fwar is another one of the young hipsters who find all this talk of cost savings easy as it doesn’t apply to them…yet.”
We’re all on the whole foods health plan.
Comment by Mel on 8/14 @ 9:12 pm #
Take what you can when you can right, fwar? Enjoy your relative youth. It is fleeting.
Comment by Darleen on 8/14 @ 9:23 pm #
That’s comparative effectiveness. Different from the living will stuff that palin was facebooking.
Wrong.
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 9:37 pm #
It is a lying liar that tells lies. Their entire power grab is predicated on lies, and they have to tell lies about the lies they are lying about to cover up for their lying lies. And we are supposed to trust these fucking liars when they have told us they desire single-payer, and the plans they are proposing will lead to single payer, but now it is just health insurance reform. We are supposed to accept at face value that they will not ration care even though it is the only known outcome to the system they are proposing. We are supposed to accept that Rahm’s bro’s views on the comparative value of life for people are not being considered even when he has been advocating same in public. We are supposed to believe it will be deficit neutral even when we know it will be trillions of dollars in the red, with conservative estimates. We are supposed to believe that it will be more efficient and cheaper when there is not even one single solitary example of the federal government doing so. In short, we must suspend ordinary reality, suspend disbelief, and ignore all that we know, and what they have said, and now believe that this time it will work.
Fuck you, fwar/meya/RD.
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 9:46 pm #
And fuck you for making me type more than 140 characters. Fuck you you fucking fuckity fucker what lies lies lies.
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 9:54 pm #
Sorry about that wall o’text, folks.
Comment by geoffb on 8/14 @ 10:16 pm #
No prob JD. I second your position.
Comment by Mel on 8/14 @ 10:24 pm #
JD, you would be welcome at my fire anytime.
Comment by B Moe on 8/14 @ 10:53 pm #
You ever pitch your tent around North Georgia Mel, give me a holler. I will make sure you are properly provisioned for at least one evening.
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 10:55 pm #
Someday, Mel, I will take you up on that.
Comment by LTC John on 8/15 @ 7:11 am #
“Liddell-Hart”
Don’t make me come over there, throwing handfuls of Russell Weigley and SLA Marshall…
Comment by Rusty on 8/15 @ 7:28 am #
#100
Come back when you get some idea of what the subject is.
Comment by McGehee on 8/15 @ 7:40 am #
ObamaCare is a prime example of something that occurred to me a while back:
* Societies exist to protect the weak from the strong.
* Governments exist to make the strong victims of the weak.
Comment by geoffb on 8/15 @ 10:26 am #
LTC John,
Thank you for bringing up SLA Marshall. Going to Amazon I now have at least 1 gift idea for my better half who is a WWI history buff.
Comment by sdferr on 8/15 @ 10:45 am #
Hmmm. I thought Marshall had got a rep for making shit up. Though I knew a fellow who worked (was assigned by the Army to work) with Marshall for a time in Vietnam. My friend thought him a decent enough sort, as I remember his tales.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 8/15 @ 12:15 pm #
LTC John:
Liddell-Hart wasn’t completely right, but ‘going through where they aren’t’ is (in my non-military trained mind) correct. Contain strong points and force the enemy to move from them.
I think the Blenheim Campaign was a stellar example. Instead of campaigning amongst the fortresses of the low countries, he arranged to shift south to Bavaria, link up with Prince Eugene’s Austrian forces, and force the French Army to fight for Bavaria outside of the prepared battlefields of the north.
The objective wasn’t the fortresses, it was the French Army, it was the minds of the French command. Once the field army was defeated, the fortresses were ripe for picking – and the French command had a hobgoblin to chase them in their dreams and plans – which way would they go next?
This is just my opinion.
Comment by McGehee on 8/15 @ 1:18 pm #
What your enemy wants, don’t do.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 8/15 @ 3:35 pm #
By ‘he’ I meant the Duke of Marlborough.