The grumbling from the racialist Left over Ricci rests on two main points — it was a 5/4 decision and such a “close split” should have no effect on the Sotomayor nomination. What they and the Left-driven MSM ignore is Wise Latina(tm) Sotomayor’s legal reasoning was rejected 9 to 0.
The Supreme Court’s predictable 5-4 vote to reverse the decision by Judge Sonia Sotomayor and two federal appeals court colleagues against 17 white (and one Hispanic) plaintiffs in the now-famous New Haven, Conn., firefighters decision does not by itself prove that the Sotomayor position was unreasonable. [...]What’s more striking is that the court was unanimous in rejecting the Sotomayor panel’s specific holding. Her holding was that New Haven’s decision to spurn the test results must be upheld based solely on the fact that highly disproportionate numbers of blacks had done badly on the exam and might file a “disparate-impact” lawsuit — regardless of whether the exam was valid or the lawsuit could succeed.
In other words, Sotomayor excuses blatant discrimination against one individual/group if the discriminator can claim fear of extortion by another individual/group.
Yeah, that’ll teach race-mongers there is no profit in intimidation!
Disparate-impact law, as codified by Congress in 1991, specifies that an employer whose qualifying exam or other selection criterion produces racially disparate results can be held liable for unintentional discrimination only if (1) the test is not “job-related… and consistent with business necessity,” or (2) the employer is presented with and refuses to adopt another, similarly job-related test with less disparate impact.
Not once had Sotomayor or any of the defenders of the city of New Haven presented any evidence that the firefighter test was “not job related” or that the city had rejected an alternate test. Indeed, to this day no one has presented even one question from the test that meets the “disparate impact” criteria.
Racialists argue that of course the blacks scored lower than the non-blacks on this test because blacks have received “inferior” education and cannot be expected to perform on tests at the same levels as the more “privileged” non-blacks.
Poppycock. One of the firefighter plantiffs was a man who suffered from dyslexia. He hired tutors and spent extra time, money and sheer skull sweat in order to score high on that test. How different is he from the kid determined to make it to the NBA that spends hours per day stretching into years perfecting his jump shot?
And there is the clear counter-example. If a written test is job-related and “race-neutral”, then it is no different than a sports tryout to see who runs faster/jumps higher.
Unless Ginsberg, Sotomayor, et al. advocate getting rid of the “disparate impact” NBA tryouts have on non-blacks, then they are clearly exposed as racialists regardless of the empathy gas bombs they try to throw.
Comment by happyfeet on 7/1 @ 7:57 am #
It would be a more compelling argument I think if this hoochie had been picked for her legal skills.
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 7:57 am #
Hopefully the GOP will use their time in the hearings to closely question Justice Sotomayor over this decision.
Still, becareful what you wish for. If the GOP even had the mussle to oust Sotomayor, what would that accomplish? Do you think Borking her will result in a Democratic Justice Kennedy getting appointed? Not likely.
Obama whould appoint Diane Wood, who is smarter, liberal and more dangerous.
Comment by Darleen on 7/1 @ 8:03 am #
Joe
I don’t want Sotomayor “borked” … Bork was treated in a disgusting and unfair manner as was Clarence Thomas.
I want Sotomayor to answer firm, on topic and clear questions about her legal reasoning. Let the American public judge this Wise Latina(tm).
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 8:05 am #
“Her holding was that New Haven’s decision to spurn the test results must be upheld based solely on the fact that highly disproportionate numbers of blacks had done badly on the exam and might file a “disparate-impact” lawsuit…”
Amazing…
So she was anticipating being mau-maued, and that was the basis of her ruling in Ricci!?!
WTF!
I guess I just don’t understand the machinations of her wise latino woman’s mind…
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 8:07 am #
Me too Darleen. I want tough but fair questions of Judge Sotomayor. Not attacking her personally, but attacking her decisions and judicial philosophy. She will be likely confirmed (especially with Stewart Smalley getting seated), barring some unexpected meltdown, but she should be challenged on what she stands for. And the glass is still half full.
Comment by alppuccino on 7/1 @ 8:12 am #
The “Republicans” if that’s what they’re calling themselves these days need to make the hearings about Obama’s demand for empathy from the bench. Perhaps try to gin up some empathy for a live birth baby thrown on the concrete floor of the medical waste room to die alone. Or perhaps some empathy for the poor white kid who scraped out a 4.0+ in high school only to have his spot at Harvard taken by some clean, articulate numbskull of partial color for the purpose of achieving diversity in all areas of specialty. Maybe even point out that this kind of thing could ruin a country. And give some recent examples.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 8:19 am #
“especially with Stewart Smalley getting seated”
[facepalm]
Comment by Rhymes With Right on 7/1 @ 8:24 am #
There is precisely one criterion upon which to judge the actions of the city of New Haven under the statute in question.
Given the lengths to which the city went to devise a race-neutral promotion test, would the city have set the test aside if not enough WHITE candidates scored high enough for promotion?
If the answer is yes, then the city’s actions might (but only might) be defensible. However the record indicates that the results weer set aside only due to the failure of black candidates to qualify for immediate promotion (though they would have been promoted in the second and subsequent rounds of promotions over the next 2-3 years). It is therefore indicative of an intentional bias against the melanin-challenged members of the department on the part of the city leaders.
Comment by JHo on 7/1 @ 8:44 am #
Putting it that way really points to the impossibly infantile state of contemporary American politics. That we’d trade the liberties paid for in blood for an appearance of subjective, racist guilt-fairness makes me teeth hurt. It’s hard to grasp that not only are we trading away our birthrights, but that we’re arguing against the thieves taking it on their turf.
What ever happened to stating the unconstitutionality of such race-driven intellectual Orwellianism and insisting — at any and all cost — that it cease and desist. No discussion, no argument, just action at the polls. Done. Finished. Go away. We have principles and there they are. Got a problem with treatment? Appearances? Feelings? Grow up or get out.
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 8:45 am #
This is not a racial bias issue, or even gender bias, but it does show that gender diversity can be a plus in some situations. Plus, what’s not to like about girls with guns? But it did not happen as a result of some arbitrary direction on high, but objective reasons.
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 8:51 am #
What ever happened to stating the unconstitutionality of such race-driven intellectual Orwellianism and insisting — at any and all cost — that it cease and desist. No discussion, no argument, just action at the polls. Done. Finished. Go away. We have principles and there they are. Got a problem with treatment? Appearances? Feelings? Grow up or get out.
That is a great speach JHo and I agree questions along that line should be made, but unfortunately, elections have consequences. The majority of people in the Sentate don’t see things that way (and the Dems are just about to add another “winner” to that increasingly less than august body soon). So until that change comes, and that action at the polls happens, get use to sitting on the back of the bus (or as Obama prefers to those who disagree, under it).
Comment by geoffb on 7/1 @ 9:09 am #
“especially with Stewart Smalley getting
seated” selected not elected. To borrow a phrase from the days of yore. The year 8BO.Comment by psycho... on 7/1 @ 9:27 am #
One consequence: the debasement of voters.
The people have been voting this whole time, again and again, never for any of this (except insofar as their debasement encourages it) and often explicitly against it, never for anyone who openly supported any of it, almost always for candidates who (however dishonestly) spoke out directly against it — and yet it all happened, happens, and will go on happening, in contravention of their express will, the Constitution, etc.
And the plan is…do that some more? Like we’re not humiliated enough?
“The voting will continue until morale improves!”
Comment by geoffb on 7/1 @ 9:30 am #
When the “action at the polls” finally happens and the worm turns more than laws repealed or rewritten will be required. Executive orders and laws can be done quickly, and should be, but they can be changed just as quickly. There are other more permanent changes needed.
Amendments to the constitution will have to be done. To ensure that the flaw, the bug, hidden backdoor that the Left has found to the national operating system flushed from it and is blocked from returning.
The things that Obama and the Democrats have, are, and will do can show just what changes need to be done. They are providing a lesson. Politics is a school of hard knocks.
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 9:46 am #
There was definitely shennanigans in Minnesota, but the only reason Stewart Smalley is in the position he is in was the election was exceedingly close. It does not take too much manipulation to push a close election over the edge.
Of course, ACORN is a bit more ambitious, looking to an Iranian style margin of safety for its favorite candidates.
Comment by MarkD on 7/1 @ 10:06 am #
The cynic in me says that the purported increase in the populations of major cities is just paving the way for the next election stealing cycle.
How would they know, absent the census, which hasn’t started yet?
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 10:14 am #
When was the last time there was a recount anywhere when the Democrat didn’t gain votes?
Comment by geoffb on 7/1 @ 10:20 am #
The “shennanigans in Minnesota” involve more than just the way the “count” was done. That was just the final act. The media, ACORN, walking around money, many scenes are in the play. All come together to push the candidate into that magic circle of “close enough
for government workto elect the Democrat”.The Left never forgets a slight and never forgives it either. Coleman took on the UN and the International/Transnational Left with his investigating of the “Oil for Food” program. That put the target on his back. Lesson, screw with the Internationals and they will get you, someway, someday.
Comment by Freedoms Truth on 7/1 @ 11:11 am #
“Still, becareful what you wish for. If the GOP even had the mussle to oust Sotomayor, what would that accomplish? ”
Exposing to all Americans that the Emperor has no clothes is useful even if the Emperor is determined to stay buck naked. It’s useful for all Americans to know that Obama’s “empathy” standard is a cruel hoax and a cover for the worst sort of anti-constitutional judicial activism.
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 11:26 am #
Bigger problems for the GOP?
Interesting that Barone left prospective candidates like Palin out of his 2012 analysis. Then again, he was drawing examples from the 2008 race.
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 11:33 am #
Freedom Truths, that would be great is the Senate statisics were reversed. Then the GOP could (if it held tough which is not guaranteed even if they have a majority) hold tough and block noninees like Sotomayor and Wood.
But that is not reality. Obama could get Bill Ayers confirmed with the control he has over the Senate. So if by some weird chance the GOP could find something to block Sotomayor, Wood waits in the wings (even Obama can’t be serious about Janet Napolitano). If I had to choose between Sotomayor and Wood, I would take Sotomayor.
The best the GOP can do right now is question the nominee closely and try to expose her for what she and Obama really are about, but beyond that the GOP really does not have the ability to do more at this time (other than encourage Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, Alito, and for that matter Kennedy to eat healthy, exercise every day, and take care of themselves).
Comment by Salt Lick on 7/1 @ 1:43 pm #
Because when a kid gets cut from a team he doesn’t hire a lawyer like a little whining bitch.
Heh.
Comment by bigbooner on 7/1 @ 1:43 pm #
That is pathetic.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 1:59 pm #
thor,
The difference is that a team doesn’t usually bypass better players for others that may not be as good, just to satisfy diversity quotas…
At least, not in the NBA; or any other proffesional, collegiate, or intermural teams…
At least those are still allowed to be meritocracies!
Later, podnuh…
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 2:42 pm #
Then shut the fuck up.
Just do it.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 2:43 pm #
You shtick is lame and you suck as a fucking writer.
If I were you I would be suing that strip mall fucking community college that sold you that degree. You got ripped off.
Comment by Brooks on 7/1 @ 2:44 pm #
I suspect that Justice Ginsburg will be horrified when she understands what she has for a peer.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 2:53 pm #
So thor,
What exactly are you saying? Are you saying the allegedly victimized black firefighters who couldn’t score as high on the test are Bobby, and Ricci et al are Billy?
I really don’t get it. By your reasoning, the black firefighters would have had to score higher than than Ricci et al; an they weren’t all caucasians either I believe…
Now is your analogy was a bit different, in that Billy complains to the coach that he makes him stand still to facilitate Bobby smacking him in the forehead…
Then perhaps it would have been more germaine…
I don’t think Darleen’s post is what is lacking here, with all due respect…
The days of affirmative action are over. Increasingly, folks who qualify for it, should do like I did and choose a path that achieves based on merit instead of quotas. Fair Americans reject quotas more and more these days, and especially so where being the best-of-the best can mean the difference between life and death…
Are ya feelin’ me?
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 2:56 pm #
I am just tired of your boring ass, irrelevant bullshit. Nothing you have said in this thread is even remotely relevant to anything, and you know it. Just phoned in by the numbers contrarianism. If you are going to bother to log on and type something at least fucking try.
Your shit lately has just been fucking lame.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 3:15 pm #
Well thor,
B-Ball was never really my sport; moreso Football, wrestling, boxing, and martial arts…
And you’re also right that I’m no attorney, simply a rocket scientist; but my wife is an ADA in Queens, and she didn’t see the reasoning in the “Wise Latina’s” findings either-and she’s a lifelong Democrat! She also knows a few things about law also…
So maybe, for the benefit of us unenlightened knucle-draggers, you might spare a moment or two and expand upon your parable. Just how does your example relate to the Sotomayor decision in the Ricci case..?
And thor, you have forgotten again that I’m not exactly what you’d call lily white…
Hold forth O! mighty champion of minority set-asides and quotas! Tell us what nuance was missed!
Can you dig it?
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 3:16 pm #
sorry for the redundant “also”…
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 3:32 pm #
Bob’s side won this one you fucking pinhead.
Comment by LTC John on 7/1 @ 3:32 pm #
The SCT has, in a small way, said that you can’t simply engage in tortured logic (or in Sotomayor’s case, dead silence) to come up with the result you want – in this matter, somebody beside the white guys and the Hispanic guy to get promoted, TEST RESULTS BE DAMNED. You need all that uncomfortabe stuff like, evidence, proof, etc.
This will at least allow some places to crawl out from extorsion threats (in the lovely Chicagoland rea, we have seen Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH and ACORN) and use objective means to determine who gets to be a cop, firefighter etc.
We have done this in the Armed Forces for some time now. A qualification range target does not care if you are black or not – it falls when you hit it with a shot. You make height/weight and physical standards or not. You can write a 5 paragraph field order, or not. You can put an IV in during COmbat Lifesaver training, or not. Why is it so hard to accept that a firefigher test would ask about how to put out a chemical fire, or how far away a truck should be from a electrical hazard or the like?
Comment by Abe Froman on 7/1 @ 3:33 pm #
Jackie Robinson he’s my man, if he can’t steal home then nobody can.
My money would have been on him acing a firefighter’s exam as well, thus sparing him the indignity of a jobless, dickless wonder like yourself advocating on his behalf.
Comment by LTC John on 7/1 @ 3:34 pm #
Tom, do you speak to women like that in person?
Comment by Mr. Boogedy on 7/1 @ 3:35 pm #
Because when a kid gets cut from a team he doesn’t hire a lawyer like a little whining bitch.
Unless his last name is Giuliani.
Comment by Salt Lick on 7/1 @ 3:39 pm #
Bob — IIRC, you were’t a regular here in the days when thor made it clear he thinks the blame for blacks’ mistreatment in America’s history must in all “fairness” be borne by today’s whites. There is no arguing with that position, “fairness” being a variable standard, not a legal one.
Shorter — it’s the empathy, Bob.
Comment by LTC John on 7/1 @ 3:41 pm #
Looks like lucidity took the night off a bit early.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 3:44 pm #
You don’t know the half of it, LTC John.
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 3:44 pm #
Mr. Boogedy–ouch! That is funny and sadly true.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 3:44 pm #
thor,
Segregated sports ended in the fifties…Institutional discrimination ended in the sixties…
That stuff is forty years past, two generations!
In America we have a long tradition of forgive-and-forget, of saying fuhgeddabowdit and getting on wth the program; holding grudges is not part of our national character. How is that all this grievance mongering over the past is still going on, if not for the flames being actively fanned by race-baiters; I mean, we’ve forgiven the Germans and the Japanese for crying out loud!
In the Bakke case, the court found that race could be one factor among many, but not the sole factor for use by selction boards, such as that in Ricci or in college admissions, for example…
Darleens use of the NBA analogy at the end is simply the constinuation of the analogy she used between the diligently practicing hopeful player and the hard work done by the dislexic fireman; it was simply a writers rhetorical artifice…
Why are you so down on Darleen anyway? From what I’ve heard, you used to be an integral and accepted part of the PW commentariat. Be big, and let stuff roll of your back!
Now about that Billy/Bobby analogy again? And how it pertains to Ricci?
And by the way, I always admired Jackie R. too; on many levels…
Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 4:21 pm #
Yeah, like Sarah Palin was chosen for her depth of intellect. Palin is pretty much Katherine Harris with smaller tits, and is on track for a similar arc of short-term usefulness followed by embarrassing, everlasting ignominy.
Here’s the deal: Sotomayor is qualified by any reasonable(non-wingnut) measure and is going to be confirmed no matter how much the Extremist Right stamp their little hooves and throw hissy fits.
But, hey, if you think it’s worth it to lose yet another significant percentage of Hispanic votes—by all means go for it.
By the time Ginsburg resigns, you’ll wish you had it as easy as this.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 4:21 pm #
Douche Bagel?
Is that directed at me?
Lost opportunities and grievance promoting; let bygones be bygones and fuhgeddabowdit…
In the world of moral reativism, where the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza=the Holocaust, all racial injustice in America’s past would be equal; that’s why it’s better to move on-with no grudges…
Will you at least admit the fact that Based on the Bakke decision the use of a solely racially based disqualification of the protomotion test, such as the circumstance in Ricci, is completely unconstitutional? Recall that Bakke found race only quotas to be illegal…
Right-wingers aren’t the only ones that blame invisible forces for keeping them down. The Democrats have ridden the victim hood mentality into office for too many years for you to make that assertion…
You’re smarter than that…
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 4:24 pm #
RD,
Why don’t you actually argue the merits of the Ricci case, as the thread was intended…
If we widh to hear your propagandistic pronouncements, we’ll subscribe to your newsletter!
All the best with that identity politics thing…
Comment by Abe Froman on 7/1 @ 4:34 pm #
Yeah, like Sarah Palin was chosen for her depth of intellect. Palin is pretty much Katherine Harris with smaller tits, and is on track for a similar arc of short-term usefulness followed by embarrassing, everlasting ignominy.
So what exactly was Joe Biden chosen for? If you even attempt to suggest that the man has an IQ over 100 then I pity you.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 4:37 pm #
“Comment by thor on 7/1 @ 2:51 pm #
Looks like I done touched a white nerve.”
Probably your shriveled little wee-wee, bitch.
Comment by SDN on 7/1 @ 4:39 pm #
I wonder if whore would approve of the one-drop rule in cases like this? After all, even his herO! is only half black. And raised even whiter than that by grandma.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 4:41 pm #
“Why are you so down on Darleen anyway?”
Because he’s a dick.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 4:42 pm #
“Slavery and the post-slavery Jim Crow era is an American tragedy like none other”
Thank you, Democrat party!
Comment by Mikey NTH on 7/1 @ 4:47 pm #
I do not know if anyone has read Michael Barone’s article in the Washington Examiner on this, or my comments there. I do not know if anyone else here is a lawyer.
Anyway – I went to law school. It is a technical school, of sorts. The subject matter is not general education, it is to, in the old phrase, to make the student think like a lawyer. Part of that is to be able to IRAC a fact pattern (Issue-Rule-Analysis-Conclusion). In order to IRAC, the student must rote-memorize certain information. For a criminal law class the student must know what the elements of a crime are, and know those elements cold, hence the rote-memorization. That permits a student to read a fact pattern on a test (be it multiple choice or essay), pick the issue(s) out of the fact pattern, state what the rule is, analyze the facts according to that rule, and state the conclusion (or pick the right one).
The student must spend a lot of hours studying, making outlines, practice testing, using flashcards, everything to memorize the rules or elements of that part of law. If that is not done the student cannot even begin to IRAC.
You have to know this stuff cold.
From everything I have read about the test that New Haven used it was a technical test that demanded that the student know a certain level of knowledge as the base for the profession. Without knowing that base knowledge cold, the test could not be passed. Some students, such as Mr. Ricci, went to extremes in studying in order to pass. None of the information was kept secret, nor was the subject matter in the test unrelated to the position the students were testing for.
So I think the USSC made the correct decision here, and the District Court and the Circuit Court made the wrong one. Since the District Court did not take much evidence, and the Circuit Court did not remand for evidence, there is no way of knowing how hard each student studied for the test. There is no way of knowing if the test is illegally ‘biased’ without that information. Based on the limited evidence, I do not believe that the test was ostensibily racially neutral, but designed to come to one racial conclusion. It was a technical test, on a technical field.
I think the USSC made the right decision.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/1 @ 4:48 pm #
thor,
Believe me! I don’t adhere one bit to the moral relativistic mindset! Quite the opposite, in fact…
I also don’t think anyone would argue about the discrimination duffered by blacks in the past…
Thoroughly and systematically? I’d have to argue that it is claimed that some of my ancestors suffered the equivalent to genocide; although I tend to view it through more of a miltaristic, clash-of-nations kind of lens…
But then again, I adhere to the traditional American fight hard but hold-no-grudges point of view…
And you’ve mentioned before that you tend to hold them; which I guess is what’s going on with Darleen…
Sometime, mi droog, I’d love to hear what soured you on the PW commentariat, and certain members in particular. I’m sure that it would be a long discussion; based on what I sense in some of your comments you seem to really despise some among us…
I only caution that grudges tend to make one bitter, eventually; and wish that you could choose to fuhgeddabowdit and let bygones be…
All the best, as usual…
Comment by ccoffer on 7/1 @ 4:50 pm #
This basically confirms what I’ve said about the political left for years. They wholeheartedly believe in the genetic inferiority of negroid humans.
The “legacy of slavery” is that American brown people don’t live in mud huts having monkey pot pie for dinner every night. If black people score lower on tests they can only blame the black people who convinced them to embrace a culture that celebrates stupidity, ignorance and above all, bigotry.
Comment by gus on 7/1 @ 4:55 pm #
If none of the black players in the NBA could slam dunk and some whites could, what would liberals do.
1)Cancel the season
2)Release all white players.
3)Lower the rim.
The answer is….Yes.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 4:56 pm #
And the mind numbing idiocy deepens. That is so stupid it hurts, thor.
Comment by newrouter on 7/1 @ 5:04 pm #
how come the black folk don’t sue the demorat party for all of the above
Comment by newrouter on 7/1 @ 5:07 pm #
yea b/c sotomayor and her ilk are f**kin racist sexist leftoids
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:08 pm #
“Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 4:54 pm #
Why don’t you actually argue the merits of the Ricci case, as the thread was intended
Obviously, this thread was intended to play up the latest “teh left are the true racists, not us” Rove-style talking point.”
Facts ain’t talking points, baby.
Deal.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:09 pm #
See my comment #59.
Comment by newrouter on 7/1 @ 5:09 pm #
woody wilson demorat didn’t like black folk. the klan had their klan bake at the demorat party convention
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:10 pm #
“Sometime, mi droog, I’d love to hear what soured you on the PW commentariat, and certain members in particular.”
Because, like I said, he’s a dick, Bob.
So watch yourself, and don’t be suprised when the little bitch turns on you like a rabid weasel.
You can thank me later.
Comment by Salt Lick on 7/1 @ 5:13 pm #
Empathy? Fuck yeah I have empathy, douche bagel.
I don’t think so, thor. True empathy is an understanding so intimate that the feelings, thoughts, and motives of one person are readily comprehended by another, and you’ve displayed no such understanding or grounds for it.
Instead, what you appear to have is the privileged, rich kid’s self-hatred, and you’re using black people to leverage yourself out of that. It won’t work. You need to find another way.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:14 pm #
The Democrat Party has always been the party of the four S’s: slavery, secession, segregation and socialism.
Comment by Joe on 7/1 @ 5:21 pm #
Why do you guys even let thor get you so riled up? He is like a retarded kid with Tourrets syndrome who blurts out random swears and outrageous things. In a lot of ways they are so over the top as to be amusing. Did I say like, he is a retarded kid with Tourrets syndrome. Why do you take what he says seriously. Who cares?
Comment by geoffb on 7/1 @ 5:25 pm #
Pounding the table while throwing sand at your opponents eyes. Similar to the way the case was “decided” at the District and Circuit levels. Legal Lysenkoism of the progressive Bar.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:42 pm #
“Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 5:25 pm #
Facts ain’t talking points, baby
“The fundamentals of our economy are sound”.”
They would be if the fucking government got out of the way.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:44 pm #
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/1 @ 5:43 pm #
Do you speak English?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:45 pm #
“That’s a New Whig’s idea of debate, thor. The local trollops here love
to insist on ‘cites’, then when provided, they run for the Billy Hills like a cat who falls on his face then gets that look; “I intended to do that, you know!!!””
Because that mish-mash is totally sense free.
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/1 @ 5:46 pm #
Ahh, the New Merkin shows up to make absolutely no point again. Instead, why don’t you weigh in on why certain types of racial preferences are OK and others aren’t?
Comment by geoffb on 7/1 @ 5:47 pm #
Fallacy based one one fundamental difference between the classical liberal/conservative and the progressive left. We do not have to agree with and defend to the bitter end any and all statements coming from the mouths of those designated as “leaders”.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:48 pm #
Sam, you were able to make sense of one of anti-semantic’s posts?
You’re a better man than I.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 5:48 pm #
No, actually Cleo that is thor’s idea of debate, to invent a caricature, invent something for it to say, and then launch an ad hom attack because he is too fucking stupid to rebut his own strawmen.
Comment by Darleen on 7/1 @ 5:51 pm #
Cleo believes Walthor’s lies because Cleo runs with the totalitarian mindset and Walthor, like everything else in his parent-dependent life, envies Cleo and others who wish for the whip.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 5:53 pm #
““The fundamentals of our economy were sound”.”
ftfy
Things change, isn’t that is what you dipshits voted for?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:53 pm #
“It was only after the Soviet regime became unmistakably totalitarian that English intellectuals, in large numbers, began to show interest in it. Burnham, although the English Russophile intelligentsia would repudiate him, is really voicing their secret wish: the wish to destroy the old equalitarian version of Socialism and usher in a hierarchical society where the intellectual can at last get his hands on the whip.”
-George Orwell
Comment by Darleen on 7/1 @ 5:53 pm #
63.Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 4:54 pm # |Edit This
Please, do treat us to your thinking on why discrimination based on race is NOT racist as long as it is done for the politically correct reasons.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 5:54 pm #
Some things never change.
Like the reactionary left fascist totalitarian mindset.
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/1 @ 5:58 pm #
Not the first time in history by any stretch. Totalitarianism is as old as civilization.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:02 pm #
“Not the first time in history by any stretch.”
It’d be a bit much to expect anti-semantic to actually know history.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 6:02 pm #
Cleo hasn’t been able to do much of anything lately except type out “New Whigs” and “Unified Field Theory of Governance” and then giggle madly at how clever it is.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:02 pm #
Laughably ignorant.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 7/1 @ 6:07 pm #
Fuck, Jeff. Save your blog. Please! God knows I love you, Darleen, and you have been doing great work providing content. Keep it up, but every thread has become thor attempting to abuse you and his little twits coming along for the ride. Sorry, had a beer or two and just had to vent.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:07 pm #
American Whig party:
“This name was chosen to echo the American Whigs of 1776, who fought for independence, and because “Whig” was then a widely recognized label of choice for people who saw themselves as opposing autocratic rule…”
But anti-semantic considers it an insult.
Pitiful, just pitiful.
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/1 @ 6:13 pm #
That was so dumb it actually hurt. Makes more sense if you turn it around, though.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 7/1 @ 6:14 pm #
Never has more bullshit been uttered by someone on this here site. And that is saying something.
Comment by Molon Labe on 7/1 @ 6:18 pm #
Love Kate Campbell
Comment by TheUnrepentantGeek on 7/1 @ 6:25 pm #
#
Comment by thor on 7/1 @ 4:04 pm #
Dude, it’s not about a fuckin’ grudge. The cost to African Americans for lost opportunities due to discrimination is so large it’s unquantifiable.
———–
If the test was a valid predictor of job performance, giving jobs to low performance firefighters to assuage guilt for the actions of people long dead is doubly stupid.
Comment by newrouter on 7/1 @ 6:29 pm #
“If the test was a valid predictor of job performance, giving jobs to low performance president
firefightersto assuage guilt for the actions of people long dead is doubly stupid.”Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 6:29 pm #
Hey, some of my best friends are Whigs…or soon to be.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:33 pm #
Where the fuck did this idiotic “Whig” meme from the reactionary left fascists come from?
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 6:33 pm #
By the way, its not New Whigs, its Modern Whigs Cleo. And I agree with a lot of their views.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:34 pm #
Can someone translate #104 into Sane?
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 6:39 pm #
You know what your beloved Democrats were doing in the 1840s and 1850s, Cleo? I am sure N. O’Brain would love to remind you.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:40 pm #
Was thor visiting Texas?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/070109dnmetflag.210dfc8d.html
Comment by Akatsukami on 7/1 @ 6:41 pm #
Thorpig pulls out his hoodrat persona in a desperately futile attempt to conceal that SCOTUS not just handed him his ass, but also his tongue to wipe it with.
Your race pimp buddies Jackson, Sharpton, and Wright won’t save you either, thorpig; they’re going down too.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:41 pm #
Is anti-semantic visiting Earth?
Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 6:42 pm #
Sorry, the judgment of the Invisible Hand is final: FAIL.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:43 pm #
“Didya know the Modern Whigs are protectionist?”
Did you know you’re insnae?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:43 pm #
“Didya know the Modern Whigs are protectionist?”
Did you know you’re insane?
Comment by Swen Swenson on 7/1 @ 6:44 pm #
Indeed. Because if you really want to nurse grudges and go far enough back in history you’ll find you have issues with just about everybody. That’s the mindset of Osama bin Laden when he says he employs terrorism now in revenge for the crusaders of 1000 years ago and the treatment of muslims in Spain even before that. Where does that end? Who should receive special consideration now when everyone has been guilty at some point in the past?
It occurs to me that the most insideous thing about afirmative action is that, even if you ace the test, isn’t there the nagging suspicion that you were one of the three who received the promotion not because you did better on the test than the other 20 applicants, but because of your minority status? Wouldn’t that rob a portion of the glow from your achievement even if it was justly earned? What sort of corrosive effect does that have over time?
Weeell.. I seem to recall writing quite a few field orders and reports of survey and such for my fellow LTs back when. I think that’s when I began to suspect that the modern university edumication might not be quite as advertised..
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:44 pm #
The judgement of the Invisible Jeff: you’re a jerkoff.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 6:53 pm #
Really?
Did you know you are an idiot?
What were the Democrats doing in the 1840s and 50s Cleo? Want me to cut and paste some of their platform planks?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:55 pm #
“After four years of failure to restore the Union by the experiment of war….humanity, liberty, and the public welfare demand that immediate efforts be made for a cessation of hostilities…”
Democratic Party platform for 1864
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/1 @ 6:55 pm #
While you are cut-and-pasting you’re non-sequiters, Semanticleo, look up the realtionship between the eugenics movement and the Progressive party.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:57 pm #
“Sink or swim dude. Bootstraps.”
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
Anyone?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 6:58 pm #
Sam, are you trying to make anti-semantic’s head explode?
Comment by Darleen on 7/1 @ 7:01 pm #
Ah, here’s something interesting — RD’s IP is 192.251.226.206
which resolves to three pages worth of meya comments
RD/meya, stop ducking – explain how one “cures” racism by engaging in acts of racism.
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/1 @ 7:06 pm #
Leaving aside the morality of using targeted racial discrimintaion to redress the past, how well does it work in real life? If it actaully worked, we might look beyond it’s blatant insult to liberty.
Does it?
Comment by newrouter on 7/1 @ 7:06 pm #
didya read the waxman co2 bill w/amendments?
Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 7:07 pm #
Bootstraps? I was referring to Karl Friedrich Hieronymus, Freiherr von Münchhausen, the father of modern conservatism as practiced.
Comment by SBP on 7/1 @ 7:07 pm #
Sorry, the judgment of the Invisible Hand is final: FAIL.
And yet you’re here every single day, SFAG, and even resort to switching names so you can post even more.
Funny, that.
P.S. that’s not a very good anon proxy you’re using there.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 7:10 pm #
Here is 1852, Cleo. Some highlights:
I like these too:
But then it kind of goes off the rails:
Oops. I know nothing might have been a better answer.
1856 was pretty much the same.
1860 the good stuff got top billing:
I can see why you would want to revisit this period in history, Cleo.
Idiot.
Comment by geoffb on 7/1 @ 7:12 pm #
Obstreperous Infidel #99,
Re: My #82. ???????
Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 7:18 pm #
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 7/1 @ 7:21 pm #
Well, sure geoffb, you can find comps. And btw, meya, I’m not sure if you’re a woman or a man, but I know one thing. You’re a coward. What kind of fucking coward changes their blog handle to display different personality traits? A fucking loon, that’s who.
Comment by geoffb on 7/1 @ 7:34 pm #
OF, I’m getting lost, communication failure somewhere.
Probably mine as I have been and am still busy this evening.
Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 7:35 pm #
Obstreperous Infidel – Darleen is an idiot.
She doesn’t understand how the e-mail tubes connect to other secret tubes that only work on Wednesdays.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 7/1 @ 7:42 pm #
So, nothing on a technical test, that is to test technical knowledge of a technical profession? And why those who passed it should be denied the results of passing that test?
i am making this up: There is a house fire. Ambient air temperature is 75 degrees. A 300 gallon propane tank 80% empty is fifty feet from the house. Heat registers fifty feet from that tank and a hundred feet from the house are XXXX degrees. How much (blank) per minute should be applied to that propane tank to keep it cool?
I am sure everyone wants the person leading those firefighters to have that information at his mental fingertips. And, please answer me, someone – what the devil does that have to do with race?
Comment by geoffb on 7/1 @ 7:54 pm #
Ripe indeed.
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 7:56 pm #
Question:
Answer:
DARLEEN IS AN IDIOT!!!!!!
Any other questons?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/1 @ 8:02 pm #
Any other questions?
Who left the troll cage unlocked?
Comment by Rusty on 7/1 @ 8:32 pm #
#102
Obamas a whig? Oh Canada!
Comment by B Moe on 7/1 @ 8:57 pm #
What happened to Cleo? Don’t want to talk antebellum politics anymore?
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/2 @ 12:36 am #
Comment by RD on 7/1 @ 5:25 pm #
Facts ain’t talking points, baby
“The fundamentals of our economy are sound”.
Your boy Obama has been saying that bold emphasized last line as of late, RD…
But I’m sure you are standing, applauding, biting your lip a bit, while wiping away tears when he’s reading that off the teleprompter…
I sense that you’re a hyper-partisan hack RD…
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 12:44 am #
Did Darleen post pics of her family in her thread about her daughter’s wedding? Did I make one comment in that thread?
No.
I try to attack her based on her dumbassed extremist ideas and base hypocrisy, only occasionally do I go to far, my bad. I’d like to think I avoid purposely going after Darleen’s family. Name calling is a two-way street, so don’t cry “unfair” when I do it and allow her a pass, again, I witnessed enough of that action all through junior high.
This blog was engaged in much debate concerning Lit and Lit theory a couple of years ago. Jeff and Dan had interesting threads concerning these topics. Then came the Presidential election. It’s been down hill since. Mostly redundant Rush Limbaugh-type memes and white right-wing wingers projected as dishonored tragic-hero-victims.
Too many here lack the self-awareness to engage in any sort of elevated debate, for example the P’brains. I came for the Lit debate but I stayed for the snark. I’ve more mean ass snark in my bowels than most so I see myself as home field advantaged.
There were James Baldwins before James Baldwin and Aime Cesaires before Aime Cesaire and Jackie Robinsons before Jackie Robinson. I’m repetitive with my exemplifying of these men. Evaluating them helped me form my thoughts that, in turn, formed my opinions. Institutionalized American racism stole the ability of the pre-Baldwins and pre-Robinsons to exist, it stole their potential and rightful place in society. Such racism isn’t of the American ideal of equality, and equality is one of the pillars of our government’s promises to its citizenry which made this country so great. We didn’t deliver, at least not in time to save generations from an entire race. We stole their dream and rights to equality, of the right to be judged by merit and the financial rewards of their individual accomplishments.
The first doors America allowed blacks through, they exploited. What do you not understand of the life story of one of the greatest emblems of America, Lois Armstrong? He couldn’t have been a average academic at the university and lived a sleepy life of moderate success, that chance wasn’t afforded him. He had to be a musical genius to access moderate financial success, for music, at the time, was partly open to blacks, and for an uneducated son of a whore from New Orleans he was endowed with no real musical talent. He forged himself. He also lashed out against white’s racism toward black and, eventually, discrimination against whites, research why the favorite son of New Orleans wasn’t buried in New Orleans. I’ll save you the time, he had one white guy in his band that he played duets with and at the Mardi Gras parade the city officials wouldn’t allow the white guy to play with the blacks. He swore to never return to New Orleans, and never did.
[Let bygones be bygones! Hey, what's up with the grudge!] Oh there’s some nasty bygones and still grudges, granted, but the sheer financial exploitation endured by American blacks is what the courts tried to remedy with an imperfect remedy. That’s all there is to it. Nothing personal.
Obama has already stated that AA should be revisited and re-evaluated for its necessity, as our courts have done in the recent past.
Get with the pogrom. It’s all good.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/2 @ 12:58 am #
Fair enough thor,
You’ve answered some of my questions; not all, but enough for now. This issue will be revisited some other time I’m sure…
For now, I’ve just driven for 8 hrs, and need some sleep, so forgive me if I take some time to absorb it…
Take it easy…
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/2 @ 1:02 am #
Hey thor, I almost forgot,
Check out what Swen Swenson wrote at # 108. He is seeing things tha way this Redskin does…
And are you making a commie joke with the pogrom thing at the end, or is it just a typo?
Later…
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 1:02 am #
peace
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 1:03 am #
Commie joke.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/2 @ 1:22 am #
Dude! you are soooooo Commie! How did they ever let you into A&M? Or even texas for that matter..?
A deep cover mole from the Finland station or something…
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 1:36 am #
I was focused only on making money in my 20’s. I did myself reasonably well in that pursuit. I didn’t slow down until I was 30 when I began to wonder if there wasn’t something more to life. The me of today wouldn’t recognize the me of my A&M days. I considered myself a sort’a Repub back then, but frankly I didn’t really give a shit for politics at all. I also didn’t give respect to many of the A&M traditions. I walked on the grass where I wasn’t supposed to. At least I was quick to recognize fake symbolism back then.
There are many stated ideals of Communism and Socialism which are noble, some not-so.
Russia raised one of the greatest armies of all time during WW2. What’s so terribly wrong about stating that obviousness. If pursuit of truth is an American ideal then let’s be truthful as best we can.
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 3:01 am #
Here’s the post that made Darleen cry and stomp her hooves:
You’d have to refer to a legal mind, maybe LTC John, but the NBA, in my opinion, would say basketball playing ability is vital to its image and business. It’s the same reason why, by law, I believe, that Hooters doesn’t have to hire fat males.
I really don’t want to debate these issues on the dumbed-down level of Duh-dar’s tinge. Human resource legalities and civil rights laws are as messier than if ya cut a freshly baked pie with a Spork.
I don’t disagree that one can debate these matters as adults, but the courts’ decisions should be respected for their thoroughness and sound legal standing. In other words, just because an idiot like Darleen thinks Negroes were never actually hung from trees, followed by her usual argument of what-if-they-were (!!), I really think the white-as-victim crap is without merit, or, rather, beneath me.
This is a new and ever-changing area of law. White people crying foul! Please.
OK, I’ll amuse you. Watching right-wingered white folk bitch is like a never ending repeat of junior high. Billy swings Bobby around by his backpack every day after school in sixth grade. But by eighth grade Bobby has grown 6-inches and gained fifty pounds. Former bully Billy then complains to the P.E. coach that it’s unfair that Bobby singles him out at dodge ball by always whacking him in the head with fastballs.
White anger over affirmative action is that same juvenile argument that cries out that things are no-fair when and only it’s done to whites. I seen this all before in junior high. Because I’m aware like that!
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 3:08 am #
The typo in second to last sentence should read when and only when.
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 3:21 am #
Duh-dar is an angry tragic-hero-victim loser, Bob. I’m sorry you missed Dar’s laugh-out-loud stories of her and her family being the true victims of slavery. David Duke history revisionist gold is what that was all about. Blacks need not apply at Darleen’s victim job fair.
Where there’s smoke there’s fire.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/2 @ 5:09 am #
“Did Darleen post pics of her family in her thread about her daughter’s wedding? Did I make one comment in that thread?
No.”
Fuck you, you hypocritical cocksucking mouth breathing inbred moron.
Just FOAD.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 7/2 @ 5:10 am #
“Get with the pogrom. It’s all good.”
No thanks, anti-semitism is a Democratic policy.
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 5:25 am #
Bullshit. You “attack” her, and most others here, based on her name, sex, looks, and any other ad hom invective you can think of because you know if you take her on honestly she will wipe the fucking floor with your ass.
There is the truth of it. You have had just enough college lit. to get the name-dropping and jargon down and pose as an intellectual. Like your vaunted investment career. You learned which buttons to push, what shit was called, and you made your coin. But you don’t understand how any of this really works to hold an honest, intelligent discussion. As soon as someone disagrees with you, you get butt hurt and start screaming insults, because that is all you really know.
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 5:26 am #
If there was career potential in being a gung-ho moron, I swear you’d be a CEO of something somewhere, P’brain.
My brother-in-law is doing great, by the way. He’s pounding ragheads in Afghanistan right now, and since he’s related to me you just know the kid has a few scalps hanging from his belt by now.
Have a wonderful morning.
Comment by JHo on 7/2 @ 5:29 am #
thor is clearly a pathological liar. With an insatiable ego. Read: No end to the bullshit or the platter it’s served on.
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 5:42 am #
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 5:48 am #
I’m a pathological liar? I bet you call every one who sees right through your paper thin arguments as such.
Matter of fact, it’s so-so SPB-ish of you to whip out the “liar” neener-nah-nah so early in the morning, JHo.
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 5:49 am #
How about because all nine members of the Supremes disagreed with her procedurally on this case.
You said it.
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 5:54 am #
OK, so they overturned one of her decisions. That’s like accusing Emmit Smith of having a lackluster career because he fumbled once.
Since that’s your yardstick, how many decisions has the higher courts upheld of Sotomayor’s? How does her record compare in that metric with other judges?
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 5:57 am #
chirp, chirp, chirp
Latina Power!
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 6:16 am #
It wasn’t they overturned her decision, that isn’t that big a deal, granted. They questioned, all fucking nine of them, her thought process that lead her to that decision. And that isn’t my yardstick, it is the topic of this discussion.
I don’t know, and don’t really care. If that is what I wanted to base your argument on, I would look it up. See how that works?
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 6:23 am #
She has an excellent record in that respect. I heard ‘em say it on Morning Joe. Top that!
I don’t really care to look it up. She’ll sit on the bench no matter how loud any of the wingers squeal. It’s all moot.
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 6:23 am #
How long ago was that discussion, any way? But you don’t carry a grudge, that’s right. Before I start with my opinion, let me ask you one question: If when god was spinning the bingo cage, getting ready to pick your momma right before you were born, he gave you the choice between the US and Africa, which would you choose?
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 6:27 am #
Exactly. You are intellectually lazy and incurious. You believe what you want to believe, don’t give a shit about the facts and insult any one who disagrees.
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 6:34 am #
I am going to be coming and going a lot today, the field beckons. Believe me, I am not afraid of arguing with you.
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 6:45 am #
Africa. The bloody third world is where the action is.
I vaguely remember you saying you served in Nam, maybe not, oh well. By the time Nam got rolling I wasn’t even close to sprouting pubes, but I’d a gone. Fuck yeah. I’d been a horrible soldier. I’d have bled dry from bullet holes with my guns a-blazing while the smarter black and latino dudes stayed in the fox hole smoking grade A hash and listening to Procol Harum tunes. Huge American wars aren’t for my type of suburban bred loyalty. They were a sure meat grinder.
But with all those winner-take-all bush wars in Africa there’s a chance I could have joined a small army, the Army of Fire Warriors, something like that, that was engaged in the oldest most reliable motivator of true warfare, namely, burning down villages and making wives of the hot chicks Genghis Khan-style. For that I believe I would have invested the time to become a decent bush soldier. Lootin’ and burnin’! Bonnie and Clyde! If I had my druthers of birthplace, that is.
Comment by JHo on 7/2 @ 6:58 am #
Just saying. You’re profoundly, irredeemably, intractably, serially dishonest, thor. And fixated on yourself. It adds up to boring. Foolish. Embarrassing.
Comment by Darleen on 7/2 @ 7:42 am #
Walthor
this is the last warning I give you – your comments will be on topic or they will be gone.
You have “women” issues … I get that, we all get that, but again you lie about what I’ve written about my ancestory and why I wrote about it. You get to have your own opinion you don’t get to have your own facts.
Fact: “Click” is neither an Irish nor English name. As far as we can tell it is either German or Norwegian
Fact: My grand-uncle has the bond papers showing the family was SOLD out of English debtor’s prison.
Fact: after arriving in the New World in 1697 the bond was SOLD again and the FAMILY labored on a Virginia plantation, it took them over 60 years to satisfy the bond (meaning children were BORN into bond slavery) and they then moved into Kentucky where they still are to this day. They were farmers, sawmill operators and coal miners (Loretta Lynn and Crystal Gail are cousins).
Why would I cite these FACTS? Because non-black bond slavery concurrently existed with chattel and non-black bond slaves were subjected to the same vagaries of treatment by their masters. That is FACT, not opinion.
(another FACT: the Irish were the first slaves in the new world… Cromwell saw to that, of those he didn’t slaughter he picked young men as laborers and young women as sex slaves)
Does that make me a victim? No more than any black person my age. Slavery in America is history. There are no victims of America’s slave history alive today. Did the slavery “cause” racism? No, racism existed before, during and after. Institutional racism continued after slavery, against both blacks and other groups of immigrants. Institutional racism is now gone but individual racism still exists and as long as humans live, people who buy into the collectivist idea that melanin level or eye shape is an indicator of talent or character (oh look, I’m German, that makes me better at Classical Music!) will be racist (hate-filled) or racialist (bigotry of low expectations).
The Ricci was not only a no-brainer, but it exposes the racialists like Ginsberg, Sotomayor and others. You too are a racialist because you don’t find any thing wrong with AA … somewhere somehow you FEEL blacks are inferior to whites so they HAVE to have AA in order to compete. You hold your racialist view of blacks as a virtue as does any other member of the collectivist Left who make an industry of unpacking the backpack of white priviledge. Black people are your toys, not individuals who are responsible for their own successes or failures.
You have heavy issues to work out. Do it elsewheres.
Comment by JHo on 7/2 @ 7:59 am #
Good for you, Darleen; no need to take the abuse. And you should hear Walthor on the Hondurans, the stupid little peoples who don’t even know how to be Central Americans.
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 8:06 am #
That is why your ass is parked in a climate controlled Palm Beach condo.
You are such a fraud. Poseur to the core. Is that the reason for the self loathing?
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 8:21 am #
I’d don’t buy your wimpy little white victim narratives, got it. Nor do I care for your self-confessed slave issues! Your a-little-discrimination-never-hurt-nobody attitude reeks of a detachment from reality. I couldn’t care less where you came from nor your one-off stories about bonds that were paid off by persons who borrowed money they could not pay back. Besides, how were that supposed bond paid off, through wages! Were the blacks paid any wages? Think hard.
Certain of the legacy of slavery is alive and well and will be as long as denialist are not confronted including those who’d diminish the crime of black slavery in American and its debilitating wake.
What do you suspect the collective wealth of black Americans was after they were freed from slavery? Compare any estimate you wish with the wealth accumulated by whites. Ah. Would blacks’s wealth accumulation abilities benefit or be hurt by laws that kept them from an education and from jobs? Ah. And now maybe you get the correct framing of the argument.
“I will not forget.” Imre Kertesz
You have nothing but irrational animus and a coward’s intellect. And I’ll talk about anything I want, don’t like it, don’t read it. Free will, ya strict Constitutionalists! Ha.
Comment by thor on 7/2 @ 8:48 am #
Hey Darleen, Cromwell wasn’t an American, just so you know. Focus on the time period just past the birth of our nation and it’ll help you understand what our legal system is addressing with AA. And the Irish were not the first slaves in the New World, you weirdo.
Comment by JHo on 7/2 @ 10:43 am #
Apparently thor’s not just an expert on proper Central Americanism. After these decades and centuries, thor is singlehandedly negotiating the black community its deserved restitution.
For the good of the Hondurans, of the blacks, and of all, just like Obie and the Democrat beltway infestation sees to our just and equal betterment like a good nanny should. Goodness to the bone, universally fair, wielding god-like clout and virtue.
Comment by JHo on 7/2 @ 10:47 am #
It’s that rank bullshitting that, like your thin-skinned whining about tone and civility while you pee on everybody’s shoes like a child, so endears all to your honest integrity and reliable constitution. Your opinion carries much weight, thor, and this is why, to be sure. Do carry on so we know which way to vote next time, if you follow my meaning.
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/2 @ 11:23 am #
Were you in Nam or not?
Thor was in Nam. He was the 4077th Armored Airborne Light Infantry Dragoons in Num Nutz. Killed over 500 Chong during the Tent Offensive with his N-15.
Comment by poppa india on 7/2 @ 11:49 am #
That was a black powder N-15, right?
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 1:19 pm #
As far as I can recall, no, but you are the one telling the story.
I had no idea you were a mercenary, too. Was that before or after your career on Wall Street?
I am starting to wonder if thor is a real person or a Warren Zevon boxed set.
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/2 @ 2:33 pm #
I’m not easily taken in by wild tales of yore meant to water down the too recent crimes against African humanity.
You mean in Chad, Darfur, Somalia, Zimbabwe….? Perhaps you should save your “empathy” for live Africans instead of wallowing in your liberal white guilt over long dead ones.
But that would mean actually doing something than polishing your own decayed conscience, so that’s a non-starter.
Comment by LTC John on 7/2 @ 2:54 pm #
BRD went to Darfur and made a nice little film about it. Christmas in Darfur. I wish we would hear from him again…
Comment by sdferr on 7/2 @ 3:02 pm #
LTC John, BRD checked in at the pub last month to announce the LA showing of his movie pm June 22.
Comment by sdferr on 7/2 @ 3:03 pm #
“on” for pm, sorry
Comment by Joe on 7/2 @ 3:43 pm #
(another FACT: the Irish were the first slaves in the new world… Cromwell saw to that, of those he didn’t slaughter he picked young men as laborers and young women as sex slaves)
You would think Hollywood would be all over that. Nothing sells tickets like indentured Irish sex slaves.
Comment by LTC John on 7/2 @ 4:35 pm #
Sam, remember it is Whitey’s fault that Zimbabwe is Hell on Earth.
And Nigeria is in poor shape because of Jim Crow.
And that Rwanda…all white Republicans’ fault.
Got it?
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/2 @ 4:36 pm #
You really are a sad little creature.
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/2 @ 4:37 pm #
Thor, not you, John.
Comment by LTC John on 7/2 @ 4:39 pm #
Sam,
Indeed. I would be more accurately described as a moderately happy, 6′3″ creature.
Comment by SBP on 7/2 @ 4:39 pm #
He was the 4077th Armored Airborne Light Infantry Dragoons in Num Nutz.
They were the ones who had the special black powder ammo for their N-15s, weren’t they?
Comment by B Moe on 7/2 @ 5:12 pm #
They used cap and ball .38 double barrels, what I heard.
Comment by guinsPen on 7/2 @ 8:24 pm #
Base hypocrisy, indeed.
Comment by Bob Reed on 7/2 @ 9:31 pm #
thor,
I understand some of the rationale you are stating about accumulated wealth etc; these are many of the arguments put forth today when reparations are spoken of…
But you seem to be smoothing over some of the underlying facts pretty gracefully…
1) Just who was selling the slaves to the eeeeevoll white guys who brought them to north America in the first place? I’ll tell you, it was other black folks. Because in many tribal societies in Africa the surviving memebers of defeated tribes were taken as slaves, to be dispensed with however…
2) The slave trade was accepted practice worldwide, just as their employment was too. This had not always taken the form of making other races subservient, but simply other societal groups that had been reduced to servitude through military defeat and annexation. Remember that the Romans enslaved the Greeks, the Egyptians enslaved anyone they conquered, and similar practices were societally acceptable in Asia, India, and Polynesia. The practice had a lot of societal inertia behind it and with the opening up of Africa by explorers, prompting contact with slaveholding African tribal kings eager to barter, resulted in a rapid rise in human trade.
I’m not saying that it was right, just that it happened and was considered acceptable through 1830’s when Britain outlawed the slave trade. And, slavery as a practice is still around us, in parts of the middle east today…
3) The use of Slaves in north America began under the British who were colonizing this nation. And, I remind you again that at the time of the Revolution, the slave trade was still prospering and the practice was accepted not only here but in many areas of the world…
4) You speak of both the evils of the slave system, and the potential accumulated wealth that blacks were cheated of by the same. But I submit that had no slave trade existed, it’s possible that very few Africans would have ever reached north America. As a black writer for the WaPo said in the 90’s, after witnessing the privations and atrocities of Rwanda, there but for the grace of God go I, regardless of how my ancestors got here…
So had there been no slave trade, there most likely would be few blacks here. The result most likely being the enslavement, instead of eradication, of natives as well as a much greater number of indentured servants…
thor,
To start, you shouldn’t judge historic events throught the prism of todays morality; it is not contextually correct and ignores temporal exegencies as well as epochal societal inertia…
And, if you’re going to support the idea of reparations, which it sounds like, how much is a life, or lost “opportunities” worth? How can that ever be measured? And, what about the intrinsic value of being an American citizen in the 21st century versus being a citizen in some African tribal construct taht is superimposed on a nation state-like Zimbabwe, Darfur, or Rwanda..?
And, for all of your outrage over Darleen’s comparison of other immigrant groups to Africans, why have you never even tipped your hat to what happened to the folks who were already living here?
Among my progenitors were members of the proud Cherokee nation; a society that chose to assimilate, and become part of America. Remember what happened to them? Why no talk of unrealized wealth accumulation, or reparation?
My point to all of this is that no amount of reparation can be made, neither monetarily or through enforced societal placement, that could ever address what happened in the past. And, by continuing to grievance monger over these past injustices, true societal integration and true racial acceptance, on all sides, is hampered…
Better to just forget about it, move on, and be the best person one can, and achieve the most possible, from this point on…
I did it in my life, without any silver spoons, academy appointments, or legs up, and I expect others to do the same. For we are all equal under the law…
E Pluribus Unum!
Comment by The Monster on 7/2 @ 10:36 pm #
If you pooh-pooh Darleen’s story of her ancestors being indentured servants as somehow different from the blacks who were made chattel slaves, try to wrap your brain around the story of Anthony JohnsonAnthony Johnson had acquired close to a thousand acres of land by the middle of the 17th century and was among the first generation of free blacks whose relative affluence have forced scholars of the Colonial south to revise their original views on the origins of American slavery and the fine line between this “peculiar” institution and indentured servitude.
What makes Anthony Johnson a central figure in the debate is an utterly bizarre and “politically incorrect” twist of fate. From evidence found in the earliest legal documents extant, it is Anthony Johnson who we now must recognize as the nation’s first slaveholder. After all, the court battle he eventually won in 1655 to keep John Casor (Ceasar?) as his servant for life, identifies this unfortunate soul as the first slave in the recorded history of our country. Claiming that he had been imported as an indentured servant, Casor attempted to transfer what he argued was his remaining time of service to Robert Parker, a white, but Johnson insisted that “hee had ye Negro for his life”.
The court ruled that “seriously consideringe and maturely weighing the premisses, doe fynde that the saide Mr. Robert Parker most unjustly keepeth the said Negro from Anthony Johnson his master….It is therefore the Judgement of the Court and ordered That the said John Casor Negro forthwith returne unto the service of the said master Anthony Johnson, And that mr. Robert Parker make payment of all charges in the suit.” Yes, boys and girls… Not only were the people selling the black African slaves themselves black Africans, but the first slaveowner in what is now the US was, as well.
Comment by The Monster on 7/2 @ 10:37 pm #
dammit, I want preview. That was supposed to have a blockquote.
Comment by thor on 7/3 @ 1:27 am #
Bob, you, like Darleen, must eventually get over your enthusiasm for running cover for slavery in America, moreover you need to understand the correct legal framing of AA.
Bob, the core of your arguments are basically the same historical bridge building that Darleen attempted many moons ago. She got taken apart by me, but duly note how that humiliating experience doesn’t stops the old mare from parroting her same old same old. This, I believe, is proof of her aging beyond the peak of the learning curve. She doesn’t learn. Let’s test you, Bob.
AA isn’t meant to make a reactive argument against the broad history of slavery. AA is economic redress, and the redress is not on form of currency but jobs. In other words it matters not if those north African tribes, Muslims even back then, were catching Africans and selling them into slavery in Africa. AA is about economic redress for what happened in America, how violations of American law in America harmed a specific group of American individuals and not in any way meant as criminal prosecution for crimes perpetrated in African by Africans.
Not Africa. Not Oliver Cromwell. In America. Only that which violated American laws, in America.
Darleen? Bob? Camera guy? Everyone following me here?
If you can get past my enthusiastic flaming and backhanding of Darleen in my initial posts you’ll see that I mention Jackie Robinson. Jackie made a lot of money playing baseball. How much more would he have made had he not been discriminated against and been allowed to play at the earliest age he qualified. That’s what AA is about. Blacks held jobs, but how much would they have made had they been allowed freely and equally access to all jobs, into all universities, into every occupation’s professional societies, etc… In other words AA attempts to give certain minorities a boost into positions where they were previously and unjustly denied. The court agrees that the black guy who washed dishes at the restaurant for 20+ years should have been promoted, as the evidence presented them proved all white dishwashers were promoted in the same time period. What was the economic cost to this generation of blacks that were disenfranchised. It had to be mind-boggling, a staggering sum by any measure.
Add the opportunity costs which those monies would have provided on top of pure wages, it’s a mountain of money beyond what can be measured.
This is what AA is about. Darleen’s “Grand Uncle,” the one with the bond papers that certainly must sit in the Smithsonian or some other museum, did not have to compete with certain minorities for his job, he floated, got a free pass, just like all the baseball players who were less talented than Jackie Robinson but who took Jackie’s place in the outfield and cashed what would have been Jackie’s paycheck before Jackie was allowed to play. This is an example. Not a perfect one, but I’m trying to explain the logic.
Money. Get it?
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/3 @ 6:44 am #
thor, we’ve all seen these arguments before, so don’t feel you are bringing something new to the table. Your points about AA are the same shopworn platitudes we’ve heard since its inception. They are based on faulty logic and false asumptions and that is why thinking people reject them. Just trotting them out again does not constitute refuting criticism of them. As has been noted here many times before, you’re intellectually lazy and not too bright.
Comment by Rusty on 7/3 @ 7:36 am #
#188
Fergit it. He thrives on moral outrage.
Comment by The Monster on 7/3 @ 8:30 am #
Well, that means that since there was no law violated by keeping Jackie Robinson here in KC with the Monarchs, instead of playing with the Dodgers in the bigs, you have no argument.
Comment by TheUnrepentantGeek on 7/3 @ 11:06 am #
Another interesting perspective on Ricci here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/nyregion/03firefighter.html?_r=2
Comment by TheUnrepentantGeek on 7/3 @ 11:14 am #
I get that AA is meant to redress an economic wrong, but don’t the specific people required to pay for that wrong matter? Doesn’t merit (particularly in public sector jobs) take precedence over a centuries old crime?
Failing to hire only the most qualified applicants to a job doesn’t just place an economic harm on white people – particularly in the fire department.
Nobody’s got time to dick around with social justice when shit be burning down.
Comment by Sam Hall on 7/3 @ 12:35 pm #
“Righting a wrong” was making it illegal to use race, religion, or gender as a hiring criterion. Noone here I think would argue with that principle, it being a principle of Classic Liberalism. However, AA goes beyond assuring equality of opportunity. It seeks to assure equality of outcome, and assumes unequal outcomes are caused by discrimination.
And by the way, thor, Jackie Robinson made it to the Big Leagues without goverment intervention. You asshole.
Comment by B Moe on 7/3 @ 1:26 pm #
That is it, right there, isn’t it?