On health care, it looks a lot like this.
Looks like Americans in general might be a bit more post-racial than the Pres.
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June 3, 2009
What Does Diversity Look Like? [Dan Collins]
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Comment by Obstreperous Infridel on 6/3 @ 10:06 am #
Hey, isn’t Megyn Kelly one of them bitches that needs to be hate fucked? How dare she talk back to a man! A socialist man at that. BTW, I would love to meet the author of that playboy piece and just beat the shit out of him. Never get fashion or political advice from playboy. That’s all.
Comment by Bob Reed on 6/3 @ 10:20 am #
More of that “new kind of politics” that Obama was blathering about during the campaign…
All of that Transparency!, Bi-partisanship!, Judgement!, Ethics!, Brilliance!, and Post-Racial! outlook…
Of course they’re goint to try and ram this through…
All we can hope is that some of the more moderate Democrats will value their phony-baloney jobs, think twice about tanking the economy by adding more debt, and vote down Obama-care…
But, then I’m dreaming, right. I mean, they’ll all sign on…You know, because of the fairness…
Comment by geoffb on 6/3 @ 10:21 am #
As a “Bommer” I so look forward to the wonderful socialist healthcare that will quickly weed out those of my generation who fall ill in our now rapidly approaching “golden years”.
To the 52% who put this into play,
“Then they’ll pile up the bodies
And I’ll say,
That’ll learn ya!“
Comment by geoffb on 6/3 @ 10:22 am #
“Boomer”, gawd more coffee to stop the brain decay.
Comment by Joe on 6/3 @ 10:42 am #
But according to President O. Hussein Obama, we live in one of the biggest Muslim nations on Earth!
Comment by JHo on 6/3 @ 10:52 am #
thor loves him some Bernie. Lies and all.
Comment by alppuccino on 6/3 @ 11:02 am #
Yet 40% of the American people are still not covered.
And 40% of Megyn’s boobs are not covered in that video. What a country.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 11:10 am #
I like Megyn’s boobs.
Comment by Spiny Norman on 6/3 @ 11:53 am #
The Clinton hacks running the Obama White House learned a harsh lesson from the HillaryCare debacle: do not allow any meaningful debate and absolutely do NOT allow public scrutiny.
Comment by Joe on 6/3 @ 11:58 am #
Megyn is so hot when she get pissed off. You almost want to be bad!
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 12:27 pm #
Almost ?!
Comment by Joe on 6/3 @ 12:30 pm #
Well she is hot when she is nice too.
Comment by psycho... on 6/3 @ 12:33 pm #
I really needed some WSJLOLs today. This one’s a killer:
Because no one! is more anti-corporatist than “CEOs.”
And all those medical “’stakeholders’” and “industry groups” who devote the huge majority of their political dollars to electing Democrats and funding their policy thinktanks and foundations and shit, they’ve done that for years and years and years now because they so don’t want Democrats doing Democrat-y things to them, they’ve gone crazy. If only they knew!
…
Courage.
Comment by kelly on 6/3 @ 12:40 pm #
Is Megyn lactating yet? And who would be the first to pass out contemplating that notion around here?
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 12:57 pm #
We have the best healthcare on Earth! #50 on life expectancy. We’d be #49 if you couldn’t sue doctors! #46 on infant mortality!
Take that socialist beeotches.
Comment by Dan Collins on 6/3 @ 1:06 pm #
Sammy, you’re aware, right, that most places don’t count stillborn or infant deaths as part of their life expectancy calculation?
Comment by Joe on 6/3 @ 1:11 pm #
Sammy–US life expentency is actually quite high and definitely comparable to Europe and Japan. Much of the differences are statistical. The biggest factor working against Americans may be diet related, not access to health care.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/3 @ 1:19 pm #
Dan, you’re aware, right, that Sammy doesn’t give a rat’s ass what the facts are?
If so, why the fuck are you arguing with him?
Comment by Dan Collins on 6/3 @ 1:21 pm #
I’m just sayin’, throw in a lot of <1 and your average goes down pretty quickly.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 1:32 pm #
Down to what? Link please. I’m sure someone has normalized the data.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 1:34 pm #
I’d have to think that 40% uninsured has a deleterious effect.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 1:44 pm #
Here is a simple question – If your child was sick, and needed treatment, what country would you have your child treated in?
Comment by DAve on 6/3 @ 1:44 pm #
I think Republicans are going to have to give in on this issue if we want to survive. The fact is, socialized medicine works and works well, at least from what I have seen first hand in countries like France, Spain, and Holland. I can’t say that I have seen a private model that works, at least not unless you are willing to exclude a lot of people. We simply pay out too much to insurance companies and none of that money treats patients. Health care costs are also crippling small businesses.
Comment by Joe on 6/3 @ 1:44 pm #
Sammy, no not really. The number bandied around is usually 40 million not 40% of the U.S. population (which would be 120,000,000+). Of that 40 million, most do in fact get health care when they need it. They get it by going to hospitals. They just do not pay for it. That includes illegal aliens and young people who don’t get sick a lot and accordingly decide not to maintain insurance.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 6/3 @ 1:48 pm #
40% uninsured? Epic fail, sammy. I think Dan at #16 and Joe at #24 need to be addressed by sammy.
Comment by Joe on 6/3 @ 1:49 pm #
DAve, I would suggest we need a plan to control health care costs, but the socialized plans in Europe and espeically in Canada/UK are not better. They control costs by limiting care and making waits longer (and restricting compensation to doctors). Perhaps we should require every working citizen to maintain health insurance, just like we do with automobile drivers and owners. Mitt Romney did that in Massachusetts and even that proved to be more expensive than the current system. But the costs of that pale in comparsion of what Obama wants to engage in.
The vast bulk of costs are related to advances in medical treatment. We all want it and unfortunately it is expensive.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 1:50 pm #
BS DAve.
Comment by Dan Collins on 6/3 @ 1:51 pm #
The UN compiles their statistics based on whatever criteria the reporting country decides to use. If they terminate Down syndrome as a matter of course, that’s not reflected. If they decide that premies aren’t to be included, that’s not included.
Comment by DAve on 6/3 @ 1:58 pm #
“If your child was sick, and needed treatment, what country would you have your child treated in?”
France or Spain without hesitation. You don’t know what you are talking about if you say otherwise. I’ll bet 5€ you don’t have a passport yet you are an expert on European health care. If no expert but I’ve actually visited hospitals and talked to lots of folks in the countries I’ve mentioned about heatlh care.
Comment by Bob Reed on 6/3 @ 2:00 pm #
What is that comment about, some kind of Chicken-passport, or Chicken-traveler variation..?
Comment by DAve on 6/3 @ 2:05 pm #
I don’t see things changing in America because the insurance companies just won’t allow it. I also don’t see how we can continue to deny coverage to so many people. What the hell do you do if you have a pre-existing condition and you lose your job and your health care. Try getting coverage is you have a bum knee or a heart condition.
Comment by kelly on 6/3 @ 2:27 pm #
So…DAve, you’ve visited other hospitals in other countries, huh? Just fact finding recons or actually receiving some kind of care? Are you a citizen of the US or have a dual citizenship or something? Oh, and by the way, who pays for all the “free care” in Europe, DAve?
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 2:34 pm #
Do I have health insurance? Oh well, in either case, I’ll pick Japan.
You’re right. My bad.
Hence their much higher popularity! And Canada/UK are the worst examples (which is why they’re often cited).
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 2:35 pm #
Sick Around the World: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
Comment by bryan on 6/3 @ 2:46 pm #
These pinheads (you know who you are) are trying to make the nationalization of another 20% of our economy appear inevitable. DAve, for all we know, is on Bernie Sanders’ congressional staff.
Comment by bryan on 6/3 @ 2:48 pm #
Great. PBS is widley recognized as unbiased and fair. Mr. Feets will happily disabuse you of this notion.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 2:51 pm #
Watch it first, gnash teeth second.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 3:00 pm #
DAve – You can send your filthy lucre to our host, as I have a passport, well worn. But thanks for puking out the typical trollish idiocy.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 3:05 pm #
JD – when did you stop believing that America can solve hard problems – problems that much of the rest of Western Civilization solved a decade ago?
Comment by happyfeet on 6/3 @ 3:09 pm #
And that’s some dirty socialist at the NYT saying that. PBS can take its propaganda and shove it up Big Bird’s ass I think.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/3 @ 3:09 pm #
oh. link.
Comment by kelly on 6/3 @ 3:18 pm #
Name one. With cites.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 3:20 pm #
Who would call our system a failure? 40 million uninsured. Health care costs a leading cause of bankruptcy. And life expectancy tops the charts at #50 – with a bullet!
As Colbert would say, “Some dismiss it as rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. But the titanic is sinking and we’re soaring! We’re rearranging deck chairs on the Hindenburg!”
Comment by kelly on 6/3 @ 3:27 pm #
Hey, Sammy, what do you call someone who–though he/she can afford it–simply refuses to purchase health insurance? And what percentage of the fabled “40 million” does this group represent. And are you suggesting that people be mandated into buying medical insurance?
Oh, and Colbert? Really? What are you, 17 years old or so? Figures.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 3:31 pm #
Sammy – I never stopped believing that, which is a lie from you, making you a liar. I do not think that the government is the one that should be doing it. If you think socialism constitutes a solution, then I weep for you.
Health care costs being the leading cause of bankruptcy is another Leftist canard, and SHOCKA, it turns out to be a lie. The metric used in that “study” is they looked at the bankruptcies, and any one that had any medical bills in it became the primary cause of the bankruptcy.
Feel free to move to one of those other countries that has such great life expectancy. There is nothing keeping you here.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 3:32 pm #
It is beginning its descent into idiocy. Reasonable discourse never lasts long …
Comment by happyfeet on 6/3 @ 3:32 pm #
The health care debate is about stoking grievance. That’s it. It’s all the dirty socialist party and its media knows to do.
This is why global warming is such a FAIL, btw.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 3:41 pm #
And so it goes. I don’t care if other countries have solved it. I don’t care if their expenditures on healthcare as a % of GDP are less than our. I don’t care if their systems result in better outcomes. I don’t care if their are domestically popular. I don’t care if they cover everyone, and we leave millions uninsured. I don’t care if no one in those countries has to choose between medical treatment and bankruptcy.
I’m an American, and that gives me a god given right to be as stupid as I want to be, and I Don’t Care!
Comment by kelly on 6/3 @ 3:44 pm #
Argument by assertion has a certain high school sophomoric charm, don’t you think, Sammy?
Comment by kelly on 6/3 @ 3:45 pm #
Last question for our young Sammy: do you have health insurance?
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 3:45 pm #
No Sammy, what you don’t care about is that your claims are wrong.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 3:45 pm #
You have not proven that they “solved” anything. You have asserted it. I am not all that concerned if our expenditures are higher, as we have higher levels of care. When people need care, they come to the US, or France. They do not go to Senegal, or one of the other 3rd world countries that are laughably ranked ahead of us on those lists you reference.
You keep asserting that we leave millions uninsured, and ignore that they are never refused care, and many are uninsured by choice.
And your descent into abject idiocy and dishonesty continues.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 3:47 pm #
Socializing medicine is not a “solution”, and if you think that the federal government is going to “control costs”, then you are a bigger idiot than we have given you credit for.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 6/3 @ 3:59 pm #
Sammy is just whistling past the graveyard, here. Sammy, you’re wrong. What part of that don’t you get? The infant mortality thing, you were corrected on and just movedon. What are their better outcomes, too?
Comment by DAve on 6/3 @ 4:01 pm #
Give one example of a country that has good healthcare that is not socialized. Our system is a failure, at least for tens of millions of citizens who don’t have coverage the tens of millions more who are crushed by the costs of insurance or care not covered by insurance.
When you are losing an argument, just throw out insults like JD. I’m sure he is the type of pussy who wouldn’t look another dude in the eye while walking down the street, but the internet makes him a tough guy. Every comment by this creep includes an insult. Everyone is an idiot and this stupid hillbilly is the policy genius.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 4:04 pm #
I will give some evil anecdotal evidence. My first little angel was born quite premature, to the point where she was in the NICU for an extended period of time. In many, if not most other places, there is a strong likelihood that she would not have made it, she got world-class care here in the States. Now, had she not survived, in those other countries, she would not have counted against their infant mortality rate, because she would have never made it past the birthing process. Here, she made it, and had she died after birth, she would have counted as a negative against our rates because our superior care allowed her to make it past a hurdle that she would not have cleared in most other places. Now, to the douchebags like Sammy, this is somehow a negative against our system, when in reality, it is a testament to the skill of our medical profession.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/3 @ 4:05 pm #
I don’t look dudes in the eye all the time walking around Studio City just cause then they follow you sometimes.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 4:08 pm #
Give one example of a country that has good healthcare that is not socialized.
The United States of America.
DAve – Did you send your money to our host yet, over your failed wager, or are you going to welsh on your bet? Am I supposed to be scared by you? What makes you think I would not look you in the eye and call you a liar? Care to find out?
Comment by LTC John on 6/3 @ 4:14 pm #
Example: The United States. If the cost of health insurance is “crushing” millions, it will be cheaper to have the same folks running the VA health system, Cook County General Hospital, et al running it?
France figured out its method of savings – let old people die in heat waves, have no children and bootstrap off US innovation in technology and pharma.
Senegal develop much of the medical devices or drugs you use?
Sammy – I went several years without health insurance right out of school – I was in great shape and didn’t feel it was worth my money. Now that I am older and have a family, I do – and I pay for it. I don’t want you or some GS-9 telling me what I can buy, who I can see, etc. Butt out. And to those that want to tap my bank account – hands off. You already get enough of my paycheck skimmed off by Medicare and Medicaid.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 4:14 pm #
The US health care system is a failure that is also the most responsive in the world, as well as providing the most innovation in health care by far.
Comment by LTC John on 6/3 @ 4:15 pm #
DAve is probbly going to cite Cuba soon…
BTW – I suspect I may have seen a bit more of the world than DAve, can I get 5 euro too?
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 4:16 pm #
LtC John – It welshed on the bet, so far, so don’t hold your breath.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 4:19 pm #
Around 1/5 of the uninsured could afford insurance but choose not to. Source
Comment by newrouter on 6/3 @ 4:35 pm #
never mentioned in the high cost of insurance are the gold plated policies some state insurance regulators require to be sold. so another instance of gov’t meddling driving costs up.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 4:41 pm #
DAve ? DAve? WHere DId YOu GO? DId YOu SEnd YOur 5 EUro TO OUr HOst Yet? YOu LOst THe BEt THat YOu PRoposed.
Comment by Barrack Milhouse Obama on 6/3 @ 4:45 pm #
Did we count those botched abortions I let die in Chicago against infant mortality?
We probably should, just for the irony of it all.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 5:17 pm #
By what measure? Really, you guys are brainwashed on this issue. You’ve taken the talking points as facts, and obviously have never bothered to look for yourself. Well, we are #1 on one score card, most expensive. You’d think we’d have the best outcomes.
Except that in 40 or so countries, she would have actually had better odds. You’re picturing other countries as moaning patients on metal cots with dirty bandages and a slowly rotating overhead fan. They have more MRI machines, per capita, in Japan than anywhere else in the world. Really, don’t assume that the state of the art facilities are all here in the US.
Well, OK, let’s look into that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality
On the UNICEF list, we’re #40, but you know, that’s just lying commie UNICEF.
Glad you weren’t in a car wreck.
Really, look into other countries. You can find systems that are competitive, with high quality care, low waits, good outcomes, less expense, and at least as much choice as we have here.
Comment by B Moe on 6/3 @ 5:21 pm #
You said it, not me.
Comment by B Moe on 6/3 @ 5:25 pm #
That sounds great. I thought you had been talking about the Dems/Obamas plan to nationalize healthcare. I am all for a less expensive, competitive system, bring it on!
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 5:31 pm #
We have drunk the Kool-Aid because we do not want to submit to government run healthcare. No thanks. Make your case that the federal government can do it for cheaper, with the same or better quality, at less cost to the taxpayers, without impeding individual liberty, and without rationing and waiting beyond what people have today. Until you do that, at the very least, you have not made your case. You could also point to where in the history of the world our federal government has been able to anything cheaper and more efficiently than an existing private system.
The most fundamental problem with this debate, outside of the lack of Consitutional authority, is the fact that you simply accept the idea that the government will do it better, for cheaper.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 5:32 pm #
By what measure? Really, you guys are brainwashed on this issue. You’ve taken the talking points as facts, and obviously have never bothered to look for yourself. Well, we are #1 on one score card, most expensive. You’d think we’d have the best outcomes.
Sure, the US is listed as #1 in responsiveness based on the latest WHO report (don’t get me started on their other criteria for what makes us #37 overall). But then I’m brainwashed, so fuck you.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 5:33 pm #
Except that in 40 or so countries, she would have actually had better odds.
In most other countries they wouldn’t even try. That tends to help the numbers.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 5:35 pm #
Really, look into other countries. You can find systems that are competitive, with high quality care, low waits, good outcomes, less expense, and at least as much choice as we have here.
Which ones specifically?
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 5:37 pm #
Makewi – Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make, but it sailed right past him, since he wanted to talk about MRI’s per capita or something like that.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 5:39 pm #
I guess I’m just naive and think that our government doesn’t automatically have to suck so much worse than the bureaucratic governments abroad. That’s the only reason they’ve solved it and we haven’t. That, and our partisan induced paralysis.
Really, we put a fucking man on the moon, won the cold war, saved the fucking planet in two world wars, and we can’t seem to solve anything big any more. We can’t even roll out HD television, for christ’s sake. I remember when any new technology debuted here first. Now were a technological backwater.
And so, a larger and larger percentage of our GDP will pour into a healthcare system that falls farther and farther behind. Go us!
Comment by newrouter on 6/3 @ 5:39 pm #
progg undercounting
see definitions and deviations
Comment by newrouter on 6/3 @ 5:41 pm #
idiot gov’t is bureaucracy
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 5:41 pm #
Start here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=frol02p101&continuous=1
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 5:44 pm #
Just because we did those things, we should just accept that it is the proper role of government to run out healthcare system? Simply making a list of accomplishments does not prove that it should be done. How do you suggest we pay for it, because Baracky has not done so, at least not in any honest way. How many of those places have better standards of living than ours? How many of those places have you decided to move to, since they are all unicorns and fairies? Just because Canada has national healthcare then we should? Because England does? BS. Simply listing other countries that have national healthcare is no substitute for making the argument for why it should be done, how it will be done, how it will be paid for, and under what authority the government has to take over yet another aspect of the economy.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 5:45 pm #
Sammy, I am on a Blackberry. If you have an answer, give it. It looks like that link is to a PBS video.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 5:47 pm #
Wow. Way to cherry-pick. They rate us #1 on responsiveness (Yeah! Go us!) and expenditure (grr), and 37th in overall performance and 72nd by overall level of health (Fuck them! What do they know!)
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 5:49 pm #
It is a link. Sammy can’t be bothered to spell out which one, instead he just wants to provide what other people think.
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 5:50 pm #
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 5:50 pm #
I don’t think you really understand the concept of cherry pick.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 5:52 pm #
Hey that link Sammy provided said the US is the world leader in responsiveness and innovation, what a buncha brainwashed jerks they must be.
Hey I wonder what will happen to the quality of care in other places when the US doesn’t provide for the innovation anymore?
Comment by B Moe on 6/3 @ 5:54 pm #
Sure as hell don’t know what competitive means, neither does PBS apparently. I did enjoy the reporting gushing about how there is no waiting while showing a huge, packed waiting room.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 5:54 pm #
Merck, GSK, Pfizer and Novartis could not be reached for comment.
Comment by SBP on 6/3 @ 5:54 pm #
Seriously, guys, haven’t you gotten hip to Sammy’s MO by now?
1) Pretends to be “scientific”.
2) Gets his ass handed to him.
3) Starts lying, dissembling, and weaseling.
It’s a sucker game.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 5:55 pm #
Whatever you do Sammy, don’t look into the weighting decisions for the WHO report, and for Gods sake don’t try to seek out any criticisms of their methodology.
Comment by Bob Reed on 6/3 @ 6:02 pm #
Sammy,
I see you keep citing Wikipedia..? Do you know they’re references most likely are compromised; they’ve demonstrated no tolerance for AGW skeptics, National Health care opponents, and a few other “progressive” ideological pillars….
I know a lot of people rely on them for a cliff notes style of reference, but you often need to take their material with a grain of salt…
I’m not disparagin’, jus’ sayin’…
with all due respect
Comment by Bob Reed on 6/3 @ 6:03 pm #
I just got back,
When did we stop talkin’ about luscious Megan..?
Whose highly competent, shares equal rights with any man, and I respect for reasons other than her visible, ahem, assets…
Comment by Sammy on 6/3 @ 6:08 pm #
Simply making a list of accomplishments does not prove that it should be done.
Translation: Just because other people have better systems doesn’t mean we should.
How do you suggest we pay for it, because Baracky has not done so, at least not in any honest way.
Fuck, I don’t know. A lot of countries have gone a decade ahead of us. Maybe we could look at how they do it?
How many of those places have better standards of living than ours?
Apparently quite a few. I don’t know that there’s a universal definition of “standard of living”, but it seems the Human Development Index is what people point to. We keep slipping there too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
How many of those places have you decided to move to, since they are all unicorns and fairies?
That’s the spirit.
Me: Hey, our country could be even better!
You: Fuck you. Get out.
Just because Canada has national healthcare then we should? Because England does? BS.
I suppose we can consciously choose to have a shittier system than we need to. We can say, wow, our system could be more efficient, deliver better outcomes, and cost less, but Fuck That! Really, are sparks flying out of your head and your walking in half-formed circles gibbering incoherently to yourself right now?
You’re saying, we could have a better system, other countries have proven that, BUT WHY SHOULD WE?
Simply listing other countries that have national healthcare is no substitute for making the argument for why it should be done, how it will be done, how it will be paid for
Well, we could start by looking at how others have done it. We don’t have to guess. We don’t have to go with our gut on every fucking problem that faces us. We could, you know, investigate?
, and under what authority the government has to take over yet another aspect of the economy.
The best argument yet. We simply don’t have the authority to solve big problems. Write a constitutional amendment if need be, but stop giving up and assuming, “We’re America! We can’t do anything!” Pussy.
And with that, I’m signing off. Catch you all on the flip side.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 6:10 pm #
You are such a misanthrope, Bob.
But I am jingoistic.
Comment by SBP on 6/3 @ 6:10 pm #
but you often need to take their material with a grain of salt…
Or a boulder thereof.
Wikipedia is worse than useless for anything that’s remotely politically controversial.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 6:12 pm #
I’m sorry to say Sammy is a just another idiot. Too bad.
Comment by B Moe on 6/3 @ 6:17 pm #
Great idea, here’s another one, a PBS mockumentary that only talks to the fuckers running the programs is not real information, its an infomercial.
We don’t have to look anywhere else, dipshit, we have already built the biggest and baddest motherfucking country in history. Right here. And we did it by encouraging personal responsibility, real competition, and rewarding hard work and innovation.
Not by giving shit away for free to parasites by stealing from producers. You want better health care? Break up the fucking monopoly the AMA has and give folks a real choice.
How come the same pinheads who scream bloody murder about the imaginary monopolies in private industry can’t recognize the real ones the government is running when it has its hands in all their pockets and another up their ass?
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 6:22 pm #
It takes a dump, then scrambles. Sammy had to try to misunderstand what I said in order to come up with that last comment. That level of stupidity and dishonesty could not happen on accident.
DAve – I will be at the Blue Chip Casino tonite, if you would like to pay me your debt in person.
Comment by Bob Reed on 6/3 @ 6:35 pm #
Well JD,
What can I say; I’ve always been fond of attractive ladies-of all flay-vahz…
Even though I could be her
brotherfather…I know, I’m baaaaaaad….
Please don’t tell my wife! I took escape, evasion, and survival course, but she’d surely kill me…
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 6:45 pm #
Bob – SERE school does nothing to prepare one for a pissed off wife.
Wanna hear a funny story? At the beginning of SERE, I told them I had a sore ankle. Sadists.
Comment by newrouter on 6/3 @ 6:51 pm #
we have the best freight railroad system in the world and you dopes want to copy the eurolosers.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/3 @ 7:00 pm #
The first clue should have been its spouting lefty talking points. Leftists are idiots. They lie. They have no interest in debate, or learning from others. They are interested only in beating their “enemies” and exercising power over other people.
And, dammit, folks, only one of you — unsurprisingly, LTC John — got close to the real reason not to have government-run health care. It’s none of their goddamned business. Efficiency is a canard; they’ll make shit up and cite bullshit numbers from bullshit sources to prove “efficiency”. The real argument is that we’re supposed to be free people. I don’t want Congress deciding what I’m allowed to eat. I don’t want some fucking bureaucrat deciding my parents have to be allowed to die so they can make their budget numbers.
My health isn’t anyone else’s business. It’s bad enough the assholes steal close to 30% of my life to line their own pockets and buy votes, now they want to run the rest of it, as well?
If the idea of people without insurance bugs you so much, organize a charity to provide it and fund it with your own money and that of like-minded individuals. If you do a good job, you’ll get a hell of a lot of other people donating, too. If you don’t do a good job, then maybe someone else will.
Comment by Rusty on 6/3 @ 7:28 pm #
Well, we could start by looking at how others have done it. We don’t have to guess. We don’t have to go with our gut on every fucking problem that faces us. We could, you know, investigate?
I just know I’m going to regret this.
Sammy. Name one thing ANY government does efficiently.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 7:35 pm #
Rob C – I beg to differ. I believe I made those exact ponts also, though within the context of me trying to have a discussion.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/3 @ 7:39 pm #
Sorry, JD, I didn’t see where you did. I saw lots of arguing the efficiency red-herring, and generally lots of time being wasted with Sammy.
Comment by JD on 6/3 @ 7:51 pm #
No apology needed. I am as guilty as anyone of engaging the liars. I just wanted to note that I made those exact points, which went completeky ignored.
Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 8:04 pm #
Were you never a leftist Rob?
Comment by Patrick Chester on 6/3 @ 10:26 pm #
(to Sammy)
#Comment by Makewi on 6/3 @ 5:50 pm #
I don’t think you really understand the concept of cherry pick.
No, I think Sammy hopes his audience doesn’t understand.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/3 @ 10:37 pm #
translation: I really, really want free shit and how dare you deny me.
FTFY
sorry, I just love a pig pile.
Comment by LTC JDAM on 6/3 @ 10:58 pm #
Sweden, Finland, Spain, Norway, Denmark, maybe you’ve seen them around in your worldy bit mores? BTW, how is the health care the U.S. government provides you?
Comment by DAve on 6/4 @ 1:43 am #
Leftists are idiots.
Not much wiggle room with statements like this even though none of you can name a country on the top of the list of health care providers that has a private system. Instead, you attack the list. In most European countries their health care coverage is in their constitutions. As much as they might complain about their systems, they wouldn’t change places with Americans. None of you have addressed this idiot’s question of what a person is to do who can’t get health care at any cost because of a pre-existing condition. Or don’t they deserve it? And please don’t use the argument that America can’t afford it. We already spend much more than any other country and we exclude upwards of 40 million people. “Oh, but they can get treated in the emergency room.†The worst talking point ever uttered. This may be the culmination of months of suffering with something that should have been treated immediately. Try getting knee surgery in the emergency room.
Or you can just keep up the name calling.
Comment by JD on 6/4 @ 2:37 am #
Healthcare ain’t in ours, DAve. You still owe me, or the host of this site 5 Euros. I do not expect you to honor that, given your track record so far.
Comment by DAve on 6/4 @ 3:12 am #
Admit that you lost this argument on healthcare. If you don’t you are a liar. My track record so far is presenting facts and things about European healthcare that I have seen first hand. Your record is one of presenting insults while side-stepping questions.
The way to build a better system is to look for examples of good systems and try to learn from them. We won’t improive our system by clinging to discredited theories about the beauty of private enterprise to solve every problem of society.
Comment by DAve on 6/4 @ 3:56 am #
Sweden, Finland, Spain, Norway, Denmark, maybe you’ve seen them around in your worldy bit mores? BTW, how is the health care the U.S. government provides you?
I have no idea what your first sentence means and I don’t know what health care provided by the U.S. governement you are talking about. I had socialized medicine while serving in the U.S. military and the service was very good: committed professionals all. I would rather be treated by a fellow soldier than a mercenary from Haliburton if we decide to outsource military medicine. I’m sure someone is trying to do that as we speak.
Comment by Barrack Milhouse Obama on 6/4 @ 5:04 am #
Who gives a fuck what you prefer, you will get what I give you.
Comment by B Moe on 6/4 @ 5:04 am #
See what I did there, DAve?
Comment by SBP on 6/4 @ 5:13 am #
As much as they might complain about their systems, they wouldn’t change places with Americans.
Actually they’re going to India, for the most part.
Candians are the ones who are coming to the U.S. for health care.
Of course, that would be the rich ones in both cases.
Doctors are leaving both countries as fast as they can get passports.
People are voting with their feet, and that’s the last of it, fascist.
Comment by DAve on 6/4 @ 5:23 am #
In recent years, not only has the brain drain trend slowed, it has actually reversed. In 2004, there was a net brain gain of 85 doctors. Although this gain has decreased as of late – a net gain of 61 doctors in 2005 and 31 in 2006 ix, x – the data still counter popular perceptions that Canadian doctors are leaving in droves.
-Canadian Health Services Research Foundation
Sorry SBP, that’s just not the case. I’m sure more uninsured Americans og to Canada to seek treatment. We all know that Americans flock to Canada for medecines that are prohibitively expensive in the USA.
Comment by B Moe on 6/4 @ 5:29 am #
lol. I’m sure.
Comment by DAve on 6/4 @ 5:45 am #
I don’t have any figures on this but your argument about Canadians coming to the USA for treatment only applies to wealthy Canadians. Is that what our health care system should be about? Taking care of rich people while the less fortunate wait around until they are ill enough to go to the emergency room? You haven’t argued much of a case while I am saying that we should copy the Western European models which we already know do a better job than we are doing. It would be a lot cheaper for Americans in the not-very-long run. And how do you even get coverage in the US if you have a pre-existing condition? Still no answers on that.
Comment by Pablo on 6/4 @ 6:20 am #
That isn’t socialized healthcare, that’s employer provided healthcare.
Ah, another one that doesn’t know what the word mercenary means. Me, I don’t much give a damn who my provider gets paid by in terms of the quality of care. But if he’s in the private sector, I know he’s got to compete with other providers and I know I can choose somebody else if he sucks. I like knowing that.
Comment by Carin on 6/4 @ 6:41 am #
In most European countries their health care coverage is in their constitutions. As much as they might complain about their systems, they wouldn’t change places with Americans. None of you have addressed this idiot’s question of what a person is to do who can’t get health care at any cost because of a pre-existing condition
You know who votes against welfare reform? Those on welfare. Go figure.
Regarding pre-existing conditions … you do understand that health insurance is a great big pyramid scam, right? The healthy are paying for the unhealthy. Socialized medicine is an even bigger scheme to make all the healthy taxpayers pay for the sick ones.
And, of course, once everyone is relieved of the burden of even the smallest iota of their personal responsibility, well just wait and see what people will need to see a doctor for! It’s FREE, may as well take Jr to the doctor for that sniffles he’s got.
And … then, the government will realize that people just can’t make their own health decisions. Our betters will decide what treatments to use. Because – the ugly fact is that we’ve arrived at the point where we can do incredible things regarding health, but it is simply way to expensive. My sil has had MILLIONS (no exaggeration) spent on her by the taxpayer. Now she’s in line to get a liver (and a pancreas!) . Since she’s not paying for it … never has … she hasn’t even taken the smallest steps to improve her health. She’s a diabetic who drinks and smokes.
Comment by SBP on 6/4 @ 6:59 am #
Sorry SBP, that’s just not the case.
Sorry, you are a liar, and an unlinked quote from a left-wing advocacy group doesn’t do anything to change that.
Try here.
Or here
Is that what our health care system should be about?
You tell me, liebot.
You think Obama or Bill Gates are going to be waiting in line at the public health clinic?
For that matter, note that in Cuba, the favorite country of left-wing fascists, Dear Leader doesn’t use their vaunted “free health care”. He gets doctors flown in from other countries.
Comment by SBP on 6/4 @ 7:03 am #
I’m sure more uninsured Americans og to Canada to seek treatment.
I am sure you are a liar.
We all know that Americans flock to Canada for medecines that are prohibitively expensive in the USA.
Because the US pays the R&D costs for those “medecines”, dumbass.
Hint: if the US goes the “free health care” route, there won’t be many new “medecines”. It costs at least a billion dollars to bring a drug to market, and without the private sector in the U.S. it’s just not going to happen.
If you think the drug companies are making too much money, there’s an easy solution: get together with a bunch of your hippie buddies, start the People’s Socialist Pharmaceutical Collective, and sell your products for what you think is a fair price. You’ll undercut those evil commercial drug companies and put them out of business in short order, right?
Moron.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/4 @ 7:13 am #
I was about 19 when I grew out of it. My tolerance for its idiocy has worn thin over the years, in direct proportion to their demands for my enslavement.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/4 @ 7:16 am #
Why are you folks still arguing against them? And once more on the idiotic “costs” and “other countries do it” lines?
Socialized medicine is national slavery.
Comment by LTC JDAM on 6/4 @ 7:17 am #
Comment by PR on 6/4 @ 7:44 am #
my dream in life is to pool my health care costs with fatfucks, smokers, drunks, buttfuckers, soda drinkers, & hepC carriers so that all that shit becomes my business and can be illegalized.
.
Comment by DAve on 6/4 @ 8:08 am #
Please tell me that PR and LTC JDAM are a liberals posing as a rednecks to give Republicans a bad name. No one short of the subject of a Lee Greenwood song could be such a stupid hick.
… you do understand that health insurance is a great big pyramid scam, right?
I take it that you think this is a good thing?
Comment by Carin on 6/4 @ 9:24 am #
LTC JDAM is an Obama voter. More than that, I cannot say.
… you do understand that health insurance is a great big pyramid scam, right?
I take it that you think this is a good thing?
Uh, no. I just think it should be set-up differently. More of a catestrophic back-up plan. Regular doc visits? Birthin babies**? all that stuff you just PAY.
Need a liver transplat? Time to dip into that catestrophic dealo.
*** Women would make much better choices if they had to pay for everything. Epidurals, generally, increase complications. So, if payment were a part of the equation, less women would probably have them. Less complications. Cheaper -over all- labor and delivery.
In addition, women would probably be more wiling to go VBAC, which is cheaper. Less scheduled sections. Don’t get me started on the women who think they’re “too small” to birth a baby. YOU DON’T want me to get into that rant.
Comment by B Moe on 6/4 @ 11:33 am #
LTC JDAM is thor.
Comment by Carin on 6/4 @ 11:35 am #
That’s what I figgered. But, politically, I don’t know where he sits. Liberal. communist? Who knows.
Comment by Makewi on 6/4 @ 12:51 pm #
Only rich Canadians can afford to come to America to get the treatments they can’t get in Canada. So the solution of course is to ensure that if the poor can’t have it, then the rich shouldn’t be able to either. A sort of forced equality in which everyone is miserable together.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/4 @ 1:10 pm #
Whor sits wherever he can show his ass.
Comment by JD on 6/4 @ 3:32 pm #
DAve – Not only are you a liar, but a bigot as well. Nasty little combination you have there.
Comment by DAve on 6/4 @ 4:05 pm #
I’m a bigot because I called you an ignorant hick? Guilty as charged. I’d rather be a bigot than completely fucking stupid. What is that like? Maybe you don’t even realize that you are an ignorant hick becaue everyone around you is pretty much in the same red state, Jesus freak boat, so to speak.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/5 @ 1:10 am #
what is it with people named dave?