Taxpayers soon to foot bill for Federally defined and imposed Green Religion
“We are gathered to unveil the No Child Left Inside Act of 2009, which will support environmental education in our nation’s schools,†Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.), a lead sponsor of the bill, said Thursday at Upper Russell Senate Park (near the U.S. Capitol). “These young people will be the environmental stewards and leaders of tomorrow, and we have to prepare them today – and that’s the whole point of this legislation.â€The bill, sponsored and co-sponsored by Democrats, was introduced in the House and Senate on Earth Day, April 22. It would provide $500 million over five years to schools with approved “environmental literacy†plans for students in grades kindergarten through 12, and offer competitive grants to schools and non-profits for outdoor education projects. [...]
“The Obama administration and Congress are moving toward having the power of a national school board,†Dan Lips, a senior policy analyst with the conservative Heritage Foundation, told CNSNews.com.
Lips said the legislation amounted to “the politicization of what’s taught in American classrooms.â€
But Linda Rhoads, co-coordinator of the No Child Left Inside Coalition, said the legislation is about environmental education, not environmentalism.
She told CNSNews.com that the curriculum taught in schools would be “science-based, fair and balanced, and [from] multiple perspectives.â€
Oh, Linda, who are you trying to fool?
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/18 @ 11:01 pm #
the last thing i thought
as my kids aimed double aught
was wheat grass sanwich
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/18 @ 11:05 pm #
child left behind
her mom called her goldilocks
she was a moderate
Comment by Phil on 5/18 @ 11:05 pm #
As our youth are further brainwashed to be good, solids progs of the future, one can only infer that America’s best days are truly behind us. Because if it isn’t the massive deficits and creeping hyperinflation and rising interest rates that get us, then Teh Stupid certainly will.
Well it was fun while it lasted. “A Republic, if you can keep it.”
Sorry guys, we did try our best. (yes today is not one of my optimistic days but rather my lament the end of America’s future days. Only bonus: watching prog-ism governance fail miserably in front of our every eyes. Unfortunately there won’t be much to save once they have their way with our beloved America. Like rape, only in this case legal. And cheered on by the media)
Comment by Tman on 5/18 @ 11:09 pm #
I think we should start showing kids movies like City of God in the second grade. And then watch them all grow up to be ridiculously thankful that they don’t live in the squalor that most of the rest of the world does.
Somehow “growing green beans in the dirt” becomes less romantic that way.
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/18 @ 11:13 pm #
to chuck berry/
ring ring goes the bell
hide under your desks children
the sun is shining!
Comment by Joe on 5/18 @ 11:33 pm #
I love science. I believe in evolution, quantum mechanics, chaos theory. It is all good. But as soon as I hear “science based” I have learned to reach and check my wallet the same way when some sales person references Jesus.
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/18 @ 11:35 pm #
the bunsen burner
got me closer to ann turner
i like explosions!
Comment by Spiny Norman on 5/18 @ 11:36 pm #
With all the recent evidence coming to light that disputes “Anthropogenic Global Warming”, and these blockheads continue to pound that gavel, I can reach only one conclusion: AGW is a religious cult.
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/18 @ 11:36 pm #
i’m on my last drink
i think
thanks
Comment by peter jackson on 5/18 @ 11:37 pm #
The problem here is that the horses are already out of the barn. My kids are in a great public elementary school here in Austin and they are already fully steeped in philosophical environmentalism. That’s $500 million of suckage, but I’m too upset about the larger sums of money that are going to go to ACORN to worry about the marginal enhancement to my children’s exposure to government propaganda. I’d really like for my children to be taught ecology, an actual science, whereas environmentalism is just politics.
yours/
peter.
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/18 @ 11:43 pm #
i took a survey
about my ways and meany’s
limes prevent scurvy
Comment by peter jackson on 5/18 @ 11:47 pm #
I read the news today
Oh…girl.
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/18 @ 11:49 pm #
on a more sober note/ that survey asked me…
are you a part of an online community?
i thought of pw/ natch
not to be maudlin
but to think i am awesome…
would put ice in my cup
please/ don’t blah
just say 4
Comment by Molon Labe on 5/19 @ 2:22 am #
Should I take a gubment job or keep on contracting? Gubment job will surive current economic crisis…contracting pays three times more. Phone not ringing though.
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/19 @ 2:25 am #
press one for english
Comment by Steve B on 5/19 @ 3:38 am #
I have to wonder if CPS is going start “rescuing” children from “troubled” homes because the parents refuse to recycle. Kids will self-report on their parents, there will be mandated reporting by school officials, and your failure to compost may result in loss of parental rights.
You know, for the children.
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 5:27 am #
They’ll be ratting out their parents for driving an SUV. I say let’em try the back seat of an eco-clown car.
Comment by B Moe on 5/19 @ 5:37 am #
It’s almost like they wanted more people working for the government.
Comment by B Moe on 5/19 @ 5:41 am #
I would say take the government job. No, really.
Comment by Pablo on 5/19 @ 5:51 am #
That “bill” linky no worky, as Thomas links expire. (And why is it that you can’t link directly to a bill on the official Congressional site?) This one works.
There’s an interesting bit in the NPR Article on Kristin Byrnes (linked at BH):
The Goreacle is not an Academy Award winner. (That would be Davis Guggenheim.) But don’t bring that up, IT’S SETTLED!!! Yay, journalism.
Comment by Carin on 5/19 @ 6:03 am #
Fuck fuck fuck fuck. Jenny and Arnold and gonna be standing next to the One today announcing the new fuel standards. 35.5.
I dunno why the EPA just didn’t declare that cars should run on water. By 2015, of course.
Comment by Carin on 5/19 @ 6:04 am #
I’m so mad. I stuck a “Buck Ofama” sign in my window on the way to work. It was either that, or scream if from my window as I drove down the street.
Comment by Carin on 5/19 @ 6:06 am #
And Fuck Paul W. Smith for being a total pussy on the radio this morning.Insuring that he doesn’t get cut out of the “desireable” dinner parties in the “right” social circles.
Comment by Joe on 5/19 @ 6:06 am #
Is this new “re-education” contributing to this erosion of the GOP? It is like climate change, it is very bad.
Or perhaps Team Obama is reversing the trend, you know like CO2 vs less sun spots–perhaps, just perhaps trends are not so bad?
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 6:10 am #
FTW! Why not just mandate that vehicles run on CO2—planet saved! Now where’s my Noble Peace Prize/Academy Award/back scratcher.
Comment by Carin on 5/19 @ 6:11 am #
Oh, and how come no one is mentioning that gas has gone up a buck since the One was elected? Fuck .
Comment by Matt on 5/19 @ 6:27 am #
Because Carin, we all know its the fault of Dick Cheney and his pals at haliburton. Did you notice gas didn’t go up till Cheney had that interview where he criticized democrats. The CIA lied, oil prices discounts died.
Or “Rising Gas prices, uh uh are simply … let me be clear… uh um rising gas prices are simply a result of the uh uh (dramatic pause so teleprompter can scroll) failed economic policies of the last 8 years.” I have a feeling the economy will still be bush’s fault in 2012 and beyond.
Also, this article is a good reason those with kids should consider homeschooling.
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 6:28 am #
Obviously the increase in cost is progressing at an acceptable rate for Obortion, silly!
Comment by Carin on 5/19 @ 6:29 am #
Every story I hear about the gas, very quickly after annoucing that it has gone up, mention that it is STILL lower than last year.
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 6:34 am #
That must be comforting to those who are unemployed. I think unemployment is higher compared to last year.
Comment by geoffb on 5/19 @ 6:47 am #
Definitions, definitions, it’s all in the definitions. “Science” defined of, by, and for the “Center for Science in the Public Interest”. “Fair”, “balanced”, “multiple”, are used in their Multi-cultural sense. “Perspectives” is best illustrated by this perspective view. The Washington DC, Chicago, and San Francisco ones will be included to make sure it is completely “fair and balanced, and [from] multiple perspectives”.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 6:56 am #
From your link Joe that has little to do with AGW, but I can only assume you shoe-horned it in so that this could be read:
The Republican Party clearly has lost a lot of support since 2001, the first year of George W. Bush's administration. Most of the loss in support actually occurred beginning in 2005, after Hurricane Katrina and Bush's nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme CourtWhat this tells me is that the majority of GOP-ers are soft-headed and they believed Katrina to be the worst and most deadly disaster in the history of the universe – man-made or act-of-God, bar none.
Yet, swine flu spreads and the deaths are coming ever closer to the Katrina toll and you link Katrina.
Rivers flood and white people die in the Midwest and Obama is nowhere to be found, and yet you link Katrina.
Obama is president now and the blacks have abandoned NOLA in droves. They cast their vote of no confidence in Barack with their feet, and yet you link Katrina.
The Republican party is eroding because people wishing to be liked went soft in the face of the MSM’s barrage, and now all you’ve got is a party full of spineless, directionless losers.
The Frontier Party does not believe in AGW. My deck was experiencing global warming, so I put a roof over it. Problem solved and KEEP OUT!
Comment by Mr. Pink on 5/19 @ 7:00 am #
City of God was a good movie.
Comment by Darleen on 5/19 @ 7:08 am #
Link fixed, thanks Pablo.
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 7:16 am #
alp, Joe is one of those geniuses that expected the federal government to get the assets needed into Louisiana prior to the arrival of Katrina. We all know that you put equipment and supplies in the path of the storm so they’re accessible immediately. If the supplies are floating right next to you, that’s a good thing, right?
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/19 @ 7:35 am #
No, mossberg, Joe is a child. He’s incapable of providing for himself, assumes everyone else is, too, and demands Big Mommy Gubmint make it all better.
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 7:49 am #
Rob, I tire of hearing the Katrina bullshit. When I attended Tulane University in the late 70’s early 80’s, New Orleans knew of the structural problems with the levees. The city is below sea level! I’m convinced Joe’s expertise in logistics is infinitely superior to FEMA. I say load the assets on pontoons and let the rising flood waters do the rest. It’ll be like rafting on the Colorado River!
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 8:09 am #
I know enough about Katrina to know that Bush does bear some blame for the clusterfuckage, but there was plenty of other people who fucked up in completely independent ways. Lots of them were even Democrats.
Bush’s fault lied in appointing completely unqualified people to head various government agencies. Apparently he didn’t realize that those people might be called on to be competent, at some point. Again, not blaming Bush solely or even giving him the lion’s share. I recommend Breach of Faith for those interested in getting a local look from the metro editor of the New Orleans Times-Picayune.
Comment by Joe on 5/19 @ 8:16 am #
Fuck you Rob. What slanders and lies are you stupid motherfuckers spreading about me? My post, if you bothered to read it and understand it, was a Gallup poll showing the GOP doomed and losing support nation wide in all groups (cited by the way by that fabulist Sullivan) and another Gallup poll from this week showing the GOP tied neck and neck with the Democrats (cited by Patterico)(both with Indies out and Indies leaners in). What gives? The first poll is actually bullshit because you have to take it in context with the second poll. The Dems are also likely losing support. The point being that Obama bullshit is actually starting to sink in for voters. But then again, you were probably in a remedial reading group in grade school. It is called irony you stupid inbred fucknut. Read the links and note how they contradict themselves (and both are from the same polling outfit in the same week). I am sorry I have to explain it to you, like you were a fucking child, but it is called data manipulation.
Rob, I am a fiscal conservative. I am against taxes, for smaller government. IIf I had my wishes, Fred Thompson would be president now. You know nothing about me. You are a lying sack of shit. Where the fuck do you come off saying that about me and big government?
As for New Orleans, let’s give the environmentalists what they want and return most of that city to the cypress swamp it was meant to be. Don’t alligators and snapping turtles need homes? I did not blame George Bush for Katrina you stupid lying mother fucker.
And mossbergs suck too. Shitty gun, poorly made. That is why I have a Remmington, although I want to upgrade to a Beretta semi auto.
Comment by Joe on 5/19 @ 8:22 am #
Sullivan’s (actually Patrick Appel’s) misleading post
Patterico’s Gallup poll post
See the difference Rob?
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/19 @ 8:31 am #
Slart, I’ve seen a reasonable argument made that Brown did exactly the right thing — stepped back and let the pre-existing plans run. Remember, Mississippi got hit harder than Louisiana, but the bitching, griping, and supposed failures came from Louisiana.
And FEMA really isn’t a relief organization. It’s about coordinating the efforts of various pros, semi-pros, and amateurs. How long after the storm did the military start flying SAR? How long did it take for the ARRL to get emergency communications up and running? How long did it take to get DMAT and DMORT teams in place?
And I’d trust a reporter’s account of what happened about as far as I could throw the Empire State Building, particularly a reporter from NOLA. I’m sorry, but couldn’t they notice all the money budgeted for the maintenance of the levies being spent on toys? Of course they did — but they didn’t give a rat’s ass. It was being spent by Democrats, so It Was All Good.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 8:32 am #
I started that Joe. And I admit, you did show two trends. But I’ve watched you throw in links that don’t match the post and I’m skeptical. But you seem upset so I’ll apologize for questioning your motives.
I will not retract my “Republicans are soft” statement, however.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 8:34 am #
Also, Joe Allbaugh appointed Brown, and then Brown moved up after Allbaugh left. Can’t find a lot of criticism of Allbaugh’s handling of post-9/11 either.
Comment by geoffb on 5/19 @ 8:39 am #
Joe, the links in your #24 while interesting have little to nothing to do with the post “At the school nearest you … ! [Darleen Click]“. That is the problem. The words you wrote in #24 were only a mask to wedge in a completely off topic link. One which goes to a topic you wish to have argued about.
This has a name. It is called hijacking. If it happens late in a thread that has wandered away from the topic it’s fine. If it is clearly labeled OT and not done often that’s ok too. This (#24) was not that way and is done by you quite often.
If you wish to have some topic discussed then you can, email Jeff G. on a topic and maybe he will post on it. Post on it yourself at the Pub. That’s what it is there for. Or start your own blog where you post on topics you choose yourself. Doing it the way you do is a trollish behavior no matter what position you are coming from.
Your “Lola” rewrite on another thread was very nice. I can do praise as well when deserved.
Comment by Joe on 5/19 @ 8:42 am #
alpuccino, you are a subversive, but you are right, most Republicans are soft. I put the two links to show the contradictory nature of the two polls from the same outfit. Frankly that Dems and Republican are tied (and that Indies split about even between them) is in the poll Patterico posted is good news and shows that we are now back to a 50/50 split.
The Obama honeymoon is over and many people are feeling fucked in a bad way.
Comment by Ruth H on 5/19 @ 8:42 am #
I watched a local TV news show yesterday in which a child had won an essay contest on saving the earth. They were all so proud. No one seemed to realize what a smarmy essay it was and how indoctrinated the child was. It was creepy.
Comment by Joe on 5/19 @ 8:44 am #
geoffb, it is not highjacking. Darleen’s post was on how schools and evirnomentalists are trying to re-educate our youth. Yet there is a different sort of re-education going on right now with Democratic poll numbers which actually portray some hope and change–toward the classical liberal/conservative position.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 8:50 am #
a child had won an essay contest on saving the earth
An excerpt:
Plant Urth is sad. Wen it rains it means urht is crying because it's 2 hot. My dad hits mommy.Comment by GW on 5/19 @ 8:54 am #
Those of the left bent are already insuring that our children are educated in their green religion. See Ex. A. – http://wolfhowling.blogspot.com/2009/05/molding-young-minds.html
Why waste the additional money.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 5/19 @ 8:56 am #
“Mama gaya burns with fevar like some flue. The garbige clogs her nose and rivers. My littel brother almost chocked cuz of plastik can strips and cuz i twisted it arownd his nek. Pleeze recycles!”
Comment by geoffb on 5/19 @ 9:03 am #
Well, as always, YMMV.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 5/19 @ 9:05 am #
“No one seemed to realize what a smarmy essay it was and how indoctrinated the child was.”
They know and they approve of it. Hell they do it on purpose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Planet_and_the_Planeteers
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 9:05 am #
And the honorable mention winner:
I pretend to brush my teeth now to save water. I also poop next to the toilet but nobody can step in it because it’s on the side closest to the wall. “What’s that smell”, you ask? It’s Earth saying “Thank you for conserving water which is my life blood. It’s nice that you know that every time a toilet flushes, it’s like sticking a pin my eyeball or wiener.”
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:10 am #
An excerpt:
Plant Urth is sad. Wen it rains it means urht is crying because it’s 2 hot. My dad hits mommy.
Thank you so much for making me spew my protein shake all over my computer.
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:12 am #
every time a toilet flushes, it’s like sticking a pin my eyeball or wiener.
You are killing me, al. Killing me.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 9:13 am #
I’m passionate about Global Climate Unpredictability.
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:17 am #
Isn’t Global Climate Unpredictability usually reffered to as “weather” ?
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:19 am #
Or referred … either way.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 9:23 am #
Isn’t Global Climate Unpredictability usually reffered to as “weather†?
Sure. If you’re an uneducated rube. Which I know you’re not JD.
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:25 am #
Oh, I am all rube. To the bone.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 5/19 @ 9:28 am #
Rubik’s Cube.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 9:29 am #
Hee. He said ‘bone’.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 5/19 @ 9:31 am #
When I was in grade school we had to read the McGuffy primer and do book reports on Knute Rockney and Thomas Edison. I was deprived I guess. I shoulda been reading Al Gore and practicing whiping my ass with one square of toilet paper.
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:31 am #
Oh, and Joe … it is your practice to post links that have little to nothing to do with the topic at hand. It is what you do. The explanation of how those polls are relevant to the enviro discussion was amusing though.
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:33 am #
Knute Rockne. I guess you were not paying attention. I got to study Jim Thorpe in grade school. And Lombardi. I had cool teachers.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 5/19 @ 9:35 am #
JD did those books have blue covers?
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 9:35 am #
When I was in elementary school, they taught us to make sure and dispose of our used motor oil down stream. And another neat trick was how to pack extra asbestos into our sleeping bags. Cozy. I miss my lead-painted coffee cup. WHO SAID THAT?
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:42 am #
Mr. Pink – I think they were titled “Sports Illustrated” ;-)
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 5/19 @ 9:48 am #
Geez, when I was elementary school age I used to stand outside my house and watch the spray trucks roll through misting the DDT. I miss those days.
No, that’s not parody. they really did spray DDT in my town in the summer.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 9:51 am #
We chased those trucks BJ.
Does anyone else hear that voice?
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 9:52 am #
Jeez alp, you’re on a roll. I can barely read the comments because my eyes are watering.
Comment by LTC John on 5/19 @ 9:54 am #
“I’d really like for my children to be taught ecology, an actual science, whereas environmentalism is just politics.”
Amen, pal. My kids get a mix. At least some scinece, for now.
Slarti – please, in the name of God don’t talk about the resposne to Katrina. That was the single worst experience of my military career. I would have rather gone back to Afghanistan and laid there while the HIG shot 107s at me. I went into a spiral of depression and despair. Lucky thing I snapped out of it in time to go to Iraq…
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 9:59 am #
I am still laughing/puking from the donkey-punch comment.
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 9:59 am #
Does anyone else hear that voice?
Yes, I hear the voices of dead Africans cursing Rachel Carson with the Paul Simon’s Graceland soundtrack playing in the background, as I reflexively swat at mosquitos.
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 10:01 am #
Yes, I hear the voices of dead Africans cursing Rachel Carson with
thePaul Simon’s Graceland soundtrack playing in the background, as I reflexively swat at mosquitos.Ack!
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 10:02 am #
I hear the voices of Rachel howling in ecstacy as the Caterpillar begins its slow march forward.
Comment by Jim in KC on 5/19 @ 10:09 am #
If they were teaching them useful stuff about nature, like which snakes to shoot and which to leave alone, that would be one thing. Sticking pins in their eyes or weiners is another thing entirely.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 10:23 am #
Sure, that’d be reasonable, unless it turned out that he was in a position to have done something even better, and didn’t, and failure to do so was negligent. Like (excerpt):
On hearing that his boss was, instead of trying to do something about distressed people, making his way to a Ruth’s Chris for dinner in Baton Rouge, Bahamonde emailed this:
It wasn’t just able, healthy people that needed help. There were whole hospitals full of people, plus assorted, non-hospitalized disabled folks that needed help right that second. Bahamonde’s testimony to Congress, BTW. Oh, and the email traffic. Bahamonde sent his above-quoted, highly irate email on Wednesday, fully two days after NO was accessible by helicopter.
You’re telling me nothing I don’t already know, but Mississippi doesn’t have the same flooding issues as NO. The low-lying areas of Mississippi are very thinly populated. The low-lying areas of NO: not so much.
Comment by mossberg500 on 5/19 @ 10:33 am #
Is this the same guy who played self-designated shit stirrer during Jeff’s dust up with Patterico?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 10:33 am #
Sorry, should have previewed.
Regarding Brown’s appointment, though:
Comment by lee on 5/19 @ 10:48 am #
Yeah Slart, blaming Brown for not acting fast enough to fix the fuck ups of Louisiana’s Governor and New Orleans mayor is a real PC coupe.
I wonder what other bastards in Washington ate dinner while Bush was gleefully letting black people die?
Comment by Bob Reed on 5/19 @ 11:02 am #
Silly me, I thought that all religion had been banned in public schools…
All except the gospel of AGW, according to Al…
Just like much of the other indoctrinations they undergo, this is designed to circumvent our influence on our childrens world-view, and prepare to buy all of the detrimental regulation and associated taxation that is to come; in the name of saving gaia…
They all be chanting the mantra, “The debate is over…The debate is over”…
Even as many are waking up and recognizing the connivance that is radical environmentalism…
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 11:15 am #
I’ve never seen one of those. Who makes them?
It doesn’t matter; Brown isn’t just any bastard, and he wasn’t in Washington at the time. A FEMA director should consider directing, or if he can’t, at least pass the problem up the chain of command to someone who can.
Really, you need to do some reading, possibly starting with what I’m actually saying. Bush’s biggest failure as regards Katrina was his pick of Brown, a guy with zero disaster-response experience, as FEMA director. There were plenty of other people who failed as well. Ray Nagin failed hugely.
Comment by Sdferr on 5/19 @ 11:35 am #
As political causes of disaster go though Slart, in a hypothetical hierarchy of ranks you would assign, does Bush’s carelessness in appointing M. Brown stand as high as, say, the decision tree and lack of performance involved in the unfitness of the failed levees for the job they were required to do once the hurricane hit N.O., to pick out just the one example among hundreds?
Comment by lee on 5/19 @ 11:40 am #
Yeah, Brown failed ‘cuz the next day after a cat 5 hurricane hit a city 27 feet below sea level, the mess wasn’t cleaned up and the people that refused to evacuate weren’t safe and comfortable.
Never mind that the pleadings to let the National Guard deploy before hand were refused, all infrastructure was destroyed, and the state was criminally unprepared, BROWN ATE AT A RESTAURANT!!
In my mind, it’s like blaming the hospital for not saving all the lives after a 100 car pile-up. They should always staff every shift to handle those kind of things!
No matter who was the FEMA director of the Republican President, the media would have blamed him, because the fault couldn’t fall on the Democrats that screwed the pooch in a hundred different ways before hand.
Shit happens, it’s the medias job to make sure the right always gets the blame.
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 11:42 am #
For the sake of argument, let’s assume that Brown was the worst ever in this role. Now, let’s assume the bestest ever had been in that position. What, specifically should have been done differently. To me, this was always a case of PR and Teh Narrative incredibly outshining the simple fact that it was a natural disaster, and would have been a shitpile no matter who was running things. Brownie just gave them a convenient scapegoat.
Comment by David R. Block on 5/19 @ 11:54 am #
EVerybody forgets the Nagin and Blanco Democratic cock-ups on evacuation, but remembers the following shitstorm. Had those two done their jobs there would have been a lot more people saved and less political fallout. Because the media sure wasn’t interested in Democratic screw-ups, and there were LOTS of them.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 12:01 pm #
Or the day after that. Or the day after that. Or the day after that. Or the day after that. Or the day after that. I can keep going, if you want. But “cleaned up” isn’t my point, which you’d know if you’d actually read what I have written.
Safe and comfortable? Not dying would be nice. Not having to shit in the hallway would be nice, too.
It wasn’t cat 5, it was cat 3. Which you’d know, if you’d bothered to learn anything at all.
Lee, you are way, way behind the learning curve. If you want to talk about this at all, you’re going to have to show me that you know anything at all about it. I’m not going to take the time to teach you.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 5/19 @ 12:01 pm #
Excatly, David, right up to the General in charge of The National Guard begging the LA. governor twice to allow the state Guard to be federalized so that they could be mobilized and coordinated with Federal Troops … Only to be turned down … twice.
Both Blanco and Nagin proved to be the lead lightweights, followed by a few more lightweights at the federal level.
However, it’s still all Bush’s fault. Obama would have had the angels hovering overhead to rescue people and the pixies and unicorns would have dropped supplies.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 12:04 pm #
Sure, there’s a failure that deserves some underlining. COE definitely has some ’splainin’ to do, as does the corrupt power machine in NO that allowed and/or directed them (can’t recall, offhand) to do as they did.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 5/19 @ 12:23 pm #
Money for levees was redirected to casino boats I think. Ah, here it is:
But remember: George Bush hates black people.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 12:23 pm #
This was almost too laughable to respond to seriously, but here goes, anyway.
Comment by maggie katzen on 5/19 @ 12:24 pm #
related I’ve seen this mentioned a couple places, but couldn’t remember if it had come up here. The few clips they showed on Red Eye the other night were quite entertaining… We spend over half our tax revenues on the military? really?
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 12:24 pm #
How many people died, not as a direct result of the hurricane, but due to the active negligence of BushCo? How many people were eaten in the SuperDome? How many were sexually assaulted in the SuperDome?
Comment by Sdferr on 5/19 @ 12:26 pm #
The difficult political problem in fixing causation (of what?) lays precisely in the terrific complexity of the compounded errors; the great spread of the timeline of decisions, stretching back many decades; the intentionally hidden corruption of local and national politicians (beyond number?) committed, again, over decades; disambiguating contemporaneously known, well characterized errors from errors of ignorance, errors of omission, errors of unseen consequence, and on etc.
Have I left any out? I’d be happy to bet I have. And yes, it was *only* a Cat3, but jesusmaryandjoseph it was a very big Cat3 pushing one hell of a big wall of water in front of it.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 12:28 pm #
Rhetorical, JD?
Comment by lee on 5/19 @ 12:36 pm #
Ummm, OK, I was going by memory with the 27 feet thing, thought I had heard it before. My bad. It’s on average 8 feet below sea level, 11 feet in some places.
Really, really makes a huge difference to my point, I’m sure.
So I concede to you Slart, if W had a competent person as FEMA director, everything would have been back to normal in a week, nobody would have died, and everyone could have shit in perfectly functioning toilets.
DAMN GEORGE BUSH!!!
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 12:36 pm #
Pretty much consistent with what I’ve said upthread, Sdferr.
I’m going to review the book when I get home tonight. It seems that it showed another side to the Blanco story; one that had her looking not so much like an utter dipshit. I’ll throw it out for discussion later, if anyone’s interested.
Comment by lee on 5/19 @ 12:40 pm #
I think it was a cat 5 storm a few days before it made landfall, you know, when Bush was begging for the federalization of the National Guard…
I could be wrong though. Again, I’m sure it’s a hugely important distinction when placing blame on the Bush administration, so I apologize if my memory is off.
Comment by Sdferr on 5/19 @ 12:43 pm #
I didn’t intend to imply any inconsistency Slart, though I’m not sure you think I did in any case, but merely to point to the craziness of the attempt to assign blame here, blame there, and entail reasonable political consequence to be based on that. It can’t be justly done, imo.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 5/19 @ 12:44 pm #
Lee what got me is that no other freakin area in the region was reported on or people cared about as much it seemed like. That freakin hurricane hit where my friends were in Alabama, it hit parts of Texas and Mississippi. Compare their responses to the ineptness in LA. F em let the corrupt poopstain fall off the map they keep voting the bastards in it is their fault anyway. If a hurricane hit Chicago I am sure the response would be just as competent.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/19 @ 12:46 pm #
Yeah, what a shame that a federal bureaucrat didn’t fly the choppers down there himself!
Seriously, if you want to argue that Brown was an idiot and callous, fine. But there’s nothing he could have done that would have made anyone left in NOLA any more comfortable.
Comment by Jim in KC on 5/19 @ 12:47 pm #
Just let the man eat his
wafflesteak, Slart…Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/19 @ 12:48 pm #
Anything about Blanco handing the contract for handling corpses to a crony, and the sheer incompetence of that crony’s company?
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 5/19 @ 12:49 pm #
I think we can agree that people at all levels of government fucked up, with Ray Nagin rightfully receiving the most blame and Blanco right behind. It’s called accountability and those two morons were the most accountable (it was their city and state, no), or should have been the most accountable of the whole of people involved in Katrina and it’s cleanup. I don’t believe slart is putting all of the, or even most, of the blame on Brown.
Comment by lee on 5/19 @ 12:51 pm #
Ah, but Rob, if he had a flunky bring him a greasy sandwich from the deli, instead of living large at Ruths Cris, it would at least have shown a veneer of caring, which to the media is everything.
Well, unless you’re a Republican of course…
Mr. Pink, Slart assures us those other places were basically low population areas, so, you know, no problem.
Also, Bush hates him the black people.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 5/19 @ 12:56 pm #
Yeah I know noone lives in Alabama, only just a tad under 400 thousand people in Mobile county Alabama alone. I admit New Orleans has a higher population than the non urban areas but let’s not pretend it is the only city in the area that was hit. I drove over a bridge in Mobile my friend said people were hiding on to escape the water. You could see watermarks 15 to 20 feet up the posts on it.
PS what does any of this have to do with the post anyway talking about Katrina got old years ago. Might as well have a discussion about my old 8 bit Nintendo.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 5/19 @ 12:57 pm #
So who blew up the levees, anyway?
WITNESSES! THERE WERE WITNESSES!!11ELEVENTY!!11
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/19 @ 12:57 pm #
Weird, slart’s utterly failed to address this:
C’mon! Let JD know what could have been done differently!
(And, seriously, why get wound up over people having to crap in unusual places in the midst of a disaster area? If anything, it’s a failure of those in the immediate vicinity to get their own acts together — didn’t the SuperDome have a supply of garbage bags on hand?
Did Bahamonde do anything to help, or did he limit his efforts to texting for someone to pull his ass out of the fire and crapping in hallways?
But, whatever. Brown’s the villain — gotcha.)
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/19 @ 1:04 pm #
I’ve not heard any evidence of a fuck-up at the federal level. I’ve heard that Brown ate a good dinner while one of his subordinates was crapping in a hallway; I’ve not heard what Brown failed to do or ordered not done.
Comment by Matt on 5/19 @ 1:43 pm #
*However, it’s still all Bush’s fault. Obama would have had the angels hovering overhead to rescue people and the pixies and unicorns would have dropped supplies.*
Well a. Obama simply would have willed the storm out of existence, or, at the very least, directed it to Texas, where those republican cowboys deserve it or b. as Karl Rove created the storm with his weather machine, with Obama in office, there would be no Karl Rove.
Honestly, I do think you have failures at every level but I’ll also say this – when the first responders at the state and local level, screw up so severely, when the feds sweep in, they spend alot more time playing catchup and are far less effective (and again, we’re talking about the federal government here, who at times, can barely tie their shoes). I mean look at it like a rely race- you’re third on the team and the two ahead of you never trained, ran like crap, had to start walking, etc. by the time you get the baton, you’re spending time just trying to catch up and not much time winning.
Comment by Matt on 5/19 @ 1:45 pm #
As an addendum, I don’t think you can blame Bush for that much of the debacle- ok, he didn’t do the best job hiring somebody but come on – its not like he hired a retarded spastic.
I also didn’t understand the Ruth chris thing- is this a perception is reality issue ? It “feels” wrong he’s eating at Ruth Chris so its wrong. I dunno.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/19 @ 2:38 pm #
It “feels†wrong he’s eating at Ruth Chris so its wrong. I dunno.
It would be like someone eating $200/lb. steak while people are losing their life savings. You know, something like that.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 2:40 pm #
As I said, more tonight.
For those of you who can read. For lee, bupkus.
Comment by Joe on 5/19 @ 2:56 pm #
alpuccino. Ruth Cris is a fine steakhouse, but I prefer the old school independents over chains.
Comment by JD on 5/19 @ 3:01 pm #
Do they serve waygu @ Ruth’s?
Comment by lee on 5/19 @ 3:15 pm #
Ahhhh, Slart, did I hurt your feelings? I’m sorry.
Not sure why I’m the bad one though, it’s not like others here aren’t making the same points I am. I did notice that you have implemented Alinsky’s rules number 3, 5, and 12…well done!
Comment by lee on 5/19 @ 3:17 pm #
Darn link!
Alinsky’s rules.
Comment by McGehee on 5/19 @ 3:46 pm #
For what they charge for plain old Angus when my wife and I ate at the one in Jacksonville — steak and water, please and thank you, we can’t afford more at your prices — wagyu would be a little over the top.
Comment by peter jackson on 5/19 @ 3:47 pm #
Yeah, but Katrina wasn’t his first hurricane as FEMA director, it was like his tenth or something, including the four storms that hit Florida within 30 days the year before. Are you saying that Brown was uniquely incompetent? Because I don’t think lack of experience was an issue.
Comment by peter jackson on 5/19 @ 3:50 pm #
A good friend of mine used to wait tables at Ruth’s Chris in BR during the early ’90s. Edwin Edwards used to call her “Miss Laura.”
Comment by Joe on 5/19 @ 3:52 pm #
There is an evironmental nightmare coming…and it is called your next new car. We are so fucked
“It’s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst new car money can buy. It’s the first car I’ve ever considered crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn’t have to drive it any more.”
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/19 @ 5:26 pm #
Damn you and your facts!!!
Comment by meya on 5/19 @ 7:18 pm #
“City of God was a good movie.”
Check this one out next:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0861739/
I think folks round here would like it.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/19 @ 8:49 pm #
They’re not quite so busy doing violence to strawmen, lee. You’ve created a regular fire hazard, here.
I wouldn’t be quite so insulting to others if I were you.
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/19 @ 10:56 pm #
u people are so funny!
alpuchinno
take a bow!
funny!
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/19 @ 11:06 pm #
my pretty pretty cat’s eyes
taught me tolernz
but she deid…
i was poopy sad/
then whee saw al goress muvie..
my kitty in lesbian heeven
thanks blak guy pezdent
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/19 @ 11:21 pm #
dadee friend make me hapyy
brinz precent..
taught me tinkle
is ok 4 a 6[i’m 6!)
girl…
when theymake other room noises
i luk fer mommy out window…
then we all have ice cream!
Comment by pdbuttons on 5/19 @ 11:22 pm #
bobby orr!
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/20 @ 7:27 am #
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
Trackback by Maggie's Farm on 5/20 @ 7:27 am #
Weds. morning links…
Pay your credit card on time – and suffer anyway. John at Powerline asks Who is subsidizing whom? Since when is a credit card a right?
The Gaia Dogma coming to a school near you. Grammar, math and chem are so annoying anyway.
The NYT-ACORN story…
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/20 @ 7:29 am #
Two words: Jeb. Bush.
Jeb did pretty much everything good that was done in Florida during the 2004 hurricane season, while FEMA wrote millions of dollars worth of damage-reimbursement checks to people who were not in the damage zone. I was in the damage zone, and I could have gotten FEMA to fix my roof if I’d been able to keep a straight face, and I also would have been able to get a free generator out of them.
And, yes, granted: this is further testimony that hurricane response succeeds or fails based on (in order of importance) local, area and state response, with federal response being on as large and detached a scale as possible. Still, when you have information coming in that some direction is needed: direct.
Oh, yes: Michael Chertoff bore some responsibility as well. Another guy with no relevant experience in charge of a government agency.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/20 @ 7:30 am #
WTF, Rob? What strawmen have I beaten?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/20 @ 7:37 am #
While you’re considering this, I’ll quote lee’s straw-beating:
There’s two, there.
Another.
Yet another. Pretty much with every sentence, lee argues counter to what no one here is arguing for, as if it’s a response to anything at all that I’ve said.
The very definition of strawman.
Comment by lee on 5/20 @ 8:32 am #
Oh really?
But never mind Slart, I’m sure it’s my utter stupidity, ignorance, and unworthiness of your vast intellect that has you so focused on me and my strawmen.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/20 @ 9:15 am #
Oh, lee, I’m completely prepared to dismiss you. I just didn’t realize you were such an open invitation for dismissal.
I have no idea what your last comment was trying to say, and I find I no longer care. It’s certainly unrelated to anything you and I have discussed, upthread. If you want to respond to what others have said, fine. But none of your responses to me are relevant to what I’ve actually said.
Which you would know, had you bothered to read, and understand.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/20 @ 9:21 am #
But, just for reference, these are things I’ve said, here in this thread:
Really, I wouldn’t have jumped on you so hard from the start had you not come at me with counterarguments to things I hadn’t said, as if I had said them and was an utter dunce for having said them.
Comment by lee on 5/20 @ 9:46 am #
Slart, most of my reaction was directed to your comment #78, and this:
And then quoted some reporter carrying on about eating at Cris, and generally not giving a shit that people were shitting in inappropriate places.
I’m sick to death of the blame everything on Bush crowd, which I know you qualified by saying it wasn’t all his fault, but even talking about Browns culpability in the same context as those mainly to blame is like blaming climate change on my choice of light bulbs.
My argument was no different than many others on this thread, that the character assassination of Brown, and by extension of Bush, is a political game played by Dems and the MSM, designed to shift blame from the principals on to Bush, and give equivalence where there is none.
But then it seems you like to use the same strategy as the dems, shut up the opposition by belittling him, so whatever. Have at it, what you think of me matters not at all.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/20 @ 9:55 am #
Right back at you. No opinions that run counter to the orthodoxy allowed.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/20 @ 10:17 am #
While not definitionally a strawman, your insistence that Brown was a fuck-up while never explaining how he fucked up is well within the spirit. For example:
I said, “Slart, I’ve seen a reasonable argument made that Brown did exactly the right thing.” Your response was to go on about a subordinate texting Brown while Brown had the temerity to eat a nice dinner in Baton Rouge.
So what? What could Brown have done to change conditions in the middle of NOLA? How much more effort could the government have put into SAR and relief without getting in its own way? What other resources could he have called on, keeping in mind his responsibilities to an entire nation?
Simply asserting “he could have done more” is a non-argument. It’s fatuous, a child’s argument. He could have tried flying around the Earth widdershins until the force of his personality caused time to reverse, so why didn’t he try?!
And, frankly, I’m suspicious of criticism from people on the scene who, apparently, did nothing to improve conditions yet feel entitled to bitch about the inactivity of those above. Brown’s response to Bahamonde was precisely correct:
What we know of Bahamonde’s response to that was that he kept demanding attention. Did he answer Brown’s question? If he did, how was it handled? If he did not, how is that Brown’s fault?
That Brown’s press secretary handled the communications while Brown was facing the press is no big deal, but I have to wonder, wasn’t there anyone else Bahamonde could have communicated with? Why the insistence on the attention of a single man in a bureaucracy of a few thousand?
I admit I have a rather old-fashioned attitude towards disaster response — primary responsibility lies with the people on the scene. I have a hell of a lot more respect for people who are soaked to the bone in the downpour, stacking sandbags to keep the river out of their homes than for the folks sitting in a shelter demanding that something be done. Bahamonde strikes me as being in the perfect position to have made things better: he was on the scene, there were obvious immediate organization needs on the scene, and while he likely had no real authority, the fact that he drew a paycheck from FEMA would have ensured people listened to him.
Instead he seems to have focused on demanding that someone else do something, while contributing to the failure of order on the scene. Again, that’s because I’ve heard he kept calling out for help, but I’ve not heard that he actually had any particular requests, or that he assisted with getting the people at the scene organized — I could be completely wrong.
Finally, you might want to consider the speed, size, and breadth of the response after Katrina. Everything I’ve read says it was as good as, if not better, than the FEMA planning predicted. It wasn’t perfect, but that’s because we live in the real world. Yes, people tragically died while waiting for rescue and assistance — it was a disaster, right? But more people died as a result of the local and state government failing to maintain and follow their own planning for a disaster that had been predicted for decades, if not centuries.
So, in summary:
o It’s not enough to assert Brown didn’t do enough. You have to show what resources he failed to use or what actions he failed to take.
o It’s not enough to cite Bahamonde’s texting campaign as evidence Brown was negligent, without showing that Bahamonde actually provided useful (and practical) suggestions when asked for them.
o If you do have actions that could have been taken but were not, you have to take into consideration what the resources needed for those actions were actually doing at the time. Airlifting critical patients out of downtown NOLA hospitals may have saved lives; flying in generators, supplies, etc. may have saved lives — but those air assets were conducting search and rescue, pulling people from the flooded areas and conducting reconnaissance to determine the best ground routes into the area. At the moment when the decision had to be made, was it clear which would have saved the most lives?
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/20 @ 10:19 am #
They’re allowed. You just better be able to back them up with more than some assertions.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/20 @ 8:25 pm #
Ok, here goes:
Breach of Faith, page 95.
More? How much more?
Comment by Sdferr on 5/20 @ 8:32 pm #
Here’s that same guy talking on all the right shows.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/21 @ 10:29 am #
Got something more than the claims of one of the two biggest failures in the Katrina mess, Slart? Blanco’s word is shit.
How many buses were in the Ray Nagin Memorial Bus Pool? How many people could have been evacuated by rail, as offered, had Nagin and Blanco not refused the offer?
What else was happening during the two day gap? Were those buses in use? Where were they coming from? What had to be done to prepare them? Was it two days before they started to move, or two days before they started to be prepared to move?
What did Blanco do in the meantime? Sit on her thumb waiting for 500 buses to be produced by the feds? Was there nowhere in Louisiana that could spare buses to accomplish the same thing?
Had Blanco found 100 buses — maybe one bus from each of 100 school districts — the evacuation could have been accomplished with five trips per bus, rather than one.
The supposed “failures” at the federal level wouldn’t have mattered had the state and local levels not utterly neglected their responsibilities.
I get the feeling that Horne leaves out a lot of background that doesn’t fit the narrative he’s pushing. That’s his right, of course, but it’s propaganda, not history.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/21 @ 2:34 pm #
Er, what? Cite?
So, what you’re saying is that Brown enjoyed a certain camouflage, because others were as or even more incompetent?
Good to know.
What narrative might that be? Why do you think you know what it is?
What portion is ahistorical? Horne footnotes quite a lot.