In a variation of the old Roman “bread and circuses” strategy, the contemporary Left will fight not only every regulation, but even any discussion of, sex or abortion that hints of personal responsibility, morality or ethics. However, when it comes to the rest of one’s life, liberty is no where to be found
This year federal government spending will rise to 28.5 per cent of GDP, the highest level ever, with the exception of the peak of the Second World War. The 44th president is proposing to add more to the national debt than the first 43 presidents combined, doubling it in the next six years, and tripling it within the decade. But to talk about it in percentages of this and trillions of that misses the point. It’s not about bookkeeping, it’s about government annexation of the economy, and thus of life: government supervision, government regulation, government control. No matter how small your small business is — plumbing, hairdressing, maple sugaring — the state will be burdening you with more permits, more paperwork, more bureaucracy.And don’t plan on moving.
As Steyn points out, voting with one’s feet is a choice the Obama administration believes you should not have. For the Fairness(tm).
If you listen to the principal spokesmen for U.S. economic policy — Obama and Geithner — they grow daily ever more explicitly hostile to the private sector and ever more comfortable with the language of micro-managed government-approved capitalism — which, of course, isn’t capitalism at all. They’ll have an easier time getting away with it in a world of “global oversight†where there’s nowhere to move to. [...]Barack Obama, even when he’s not yukking it up on 60 Minutes, barely disguises his indifference to economic matters. He is not an economist, a political philosopher, a geopolitical strategist. He is the president as social engineer, the Community-Organizer-in-Chief. His plan to reduce tax deductions for charitable giving, for example, is not intended primarily to raise revenue, but to advance government as the distributor of largesse and diminish alternative sources of societal organization, such as civic groups. Likewise, his big plans for socialized health care, a green economy, universal college education: They’re about extending the reach of the state.
We can argue over whether this is “socialism” or “fascism,” as their historical faces have presented opposite cultural tics; but it is undeniable that Obama is dedicated to statism.
And frankly, that is un-American.
And I no longer care if others find that conclusion “unhelpful.”
Comment by ThomasD on 3/29 @ 11:35 am #
Statism = Creeping Totalitarianism
Except that ObaMao is whipping it into a gallop.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 11:36 am #
What began as an economic crisis is now principally a political usurpation.
This is true. Barack Obama’s America sucks balls.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/29 @ 11:37 am #
I read that earlier today. We’re fucked.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/29 @ 11:39 am #
Again, I say it. I hope he fails.
Comment by phreshone on 3/29 @ 11:41 am #
so much for that whole “uphold and defend the Constitution” thingie…
Comment by Brett on 3/29 @ 11:42 am #
The Founders knew the right word: tyranny.
Comment by Sdferr on 3/29 @ 11:45 am #
Don Boudreaux gives first, Free Trade and then, Liberalism as he sees them a serious go on his blog. Both posts are worth your time I think, to include the comments sections, which are pretty stoutly done themselves.
Comment by The Monster on 3/29 @ 11:49 am #
I refer to the “vote with your feet” idea as the “Berlin Wall Corollary”. The Wall was built to keep East Germans inside their Glorious Workers’ Paradise. When Hungary started allowing Ostis to travel into Austria, where they could catch a train into West Germany, the jig was up. (I denounce myself pre-emptively.) The fall of the wall was inevitable. This real-world example should prove the superiority of free market capitalism over central planning. Even though the Bundesrepublik is fairly typical of European Social Democracy, far from a purely free market, it was so much freer than the “Demokratische Republik” that there was no doubt as to why the former were so much better off than the latter, and why people wanted to move to the freer nation.
For all of the tut-tutting on the part of Hollywood types about how great Cuba is, one need only observe how many Cubans risk their lives to leave, and how few people choose to move there with far safer modes of travel.
The BWC states: “So long as people are free to move to an independent political jurisdiction, they cannot be oppressed by their current jurisdiction” Their choice to remain therein is implicit consent to the arrangement.
Any global government frustrates the “independent” aspect of that formula. (Until we have colonized other planets, anyway.)
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/29 @ 12:00 pm #
I see that New York is jacking up the income tax rates for anyone who makes more than $300K.
New Hampshire realtors are rubbing their hands with glee, at least while people are still allowed to move.
Comment by kasper on 3/29 @ 12:02 pm #
Bad news keeps coming.
Nothing lights a fire under the Republican leadership.
The utterly asininity of MSM continues.
And all the while liberties slip away. Like watching a horror film “don’t go down into that basement, dummy!”
If I didn’t have any children whose futures I care about, I’m not sure I’d bother to bother. It’s getting a little much for me.
Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/29 @ 12:12 pm #
State + local sales tax is approaching 10% in Southern California: 9.75% locally (La Mesa CA), starting next Wednesday. State tax is going up one cent in the middle of a recession (depression?).
Think of it. Make a $1000.00 purchase, pay $100.00 sales tax.
Somewhat sinister: the local tax is based on where you live, not where you are buying. Can’t get a lower tax rate by buying outside of your town.
The voters approved the local tax increase. Note that sales taxes are generally considered to be highly regressive, i.e. more relative impact on those with less income.
I wonder if these jokers ever factor in the decrease in purchases resulting from these tax increases when projecting revenue? If they do, I’ll bet the calculations are fudged.
Comment by cranky-d on 3/29 @ 12:15 pm #
You can no longer vote with your feet if every alternative is as bad or worse.
Comment by Darleen on 3/29 @ 12:16 pm #
WmT
Somewhat sinister: the local tax is based on where you live, not where you are buying. Can’t get a lower tax rate by buying outside of your town.
??
I’m thinking a lot of Angelinos will be traveling to Riverside and San Berdo for large purchases just to get around the sales tax differential.
Comment by more American than you on 3/29 @ 12:16 pm #
How about stupid fuckin’ airheads like you can argue such because you haven’t the first fuckin’ idea as to what is going on in our economy nor why there has been a near fatal meltdown of our banking system, it’s just another day in the sandbox for you average weethuglidums.
Fuck off, you broke-dick moron. You have no skin in the game. The internal re-ordering of our financial system doesn’t concern you because it doesn’t effect you. If the price a cooking lard quintupled in price you’d take note, but outside of that your everyday television to microwave existence is not disturbed by Fed policy.
You do not know what American is because you don’t know what America is not. And that’s because your fat head is filled with Jell-O.
“Explicitly hostile!” Yeah, sure, Steyn, if hostile means having to prop the private sector up with tax payer money, if that act is considered fuckin’ hostile, is what you’re trying to say, maybe. Another dumb fucking moron who speaks with glowing platitudes where Capitalism is a Jesus-like metaphor when in fact, he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about; he’s just trying to fill a op-ed word count required by his editor and for a paycheck.
What sort’a capitalism floats on the tax-payer dime, you Canuck imbecile. Government approved and government funded capitalism, maybe, the sort of capitalism that government must oversee so as to meet its custodial duty to the tax-payer and the tax-payer’s money, maybe.
Comment by Jeff G. on 3/29 @ 12:17 pm #
Can we all get together and vote for a do-over?
Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/29 @ 12:19 pm #
A melt-down enabled by government intervention in the economy is being treated with more government intervention in the economy. With more intervention comes more control.
Comment by Sdferr on 3/29 @ 12:20 pm #
Has a perfect circle ever been drawn? Close don’t count, you say?
Comment by Jeff G. on 3/29 @ 12:21 pm #
And it is easier to imprison a “Corporate fat cat” that an “well-meaning regulator.” Who just happens to be a dirty thieving bastard who wants to see fascism so long as he’s in the ruling class.
Comment by more American than you on 3/29 @ 12:25 pm #
Really, then explain you bullshit. How is it easier to jail a corporate fat cat versus a well-meaning regulator?
You don’t even make fuckin’ sense, ya bumbling buttfocker.
Comment by kasper on 3/29 @ 12:29 pm #
Spies, Brigands, and Pirates– “I see that New York is jacking up the income tax rates for anyone who makes more than $300K. New Hampshire realtors are rubbing their hands with glee, at least while people are still allowed to move.”
Oh, God. Do we have to have MORE of them coming fowl OUR nests, too?
Comment by cranky-d on 3/29 @ 12:29 pm #
@14 I’m intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 12:33 pm #
the socialisty ones are getting madder the more their dipshit president drops the pretense of being anything but a servile little girl for Daddy Soros I think
Comment by Spiny Norman on 3/29 @ 12:33 pm #
Whoever taught thor economics owes him a refund, and an apology.
BTW, how did his nick change from “thor” (which it was when that comment first appeared) to “more American than you”?
Comment by Joe on 3/29 @ 12:34 pm #
This spending spree by Team Obama and the Democrats is insane, unsustainable, and could (not exaggerating) cripple this country. A little bit of Kenysan infrastructure improvement on legitimate road, airport, bridges and other useful transportation projects (not wasteful light rail) would not have shortened the recession, but would have been a long term investiment and paid off in the long run. National defense spending on upgrading our military would also have been a good idea. What is going on with a vast expansion of domestic pork and entitlement expansion is government going on a Vegas binge.
So suggesting Rush and Jeff are the problem is a distraction we do not need, while he would like to elevate himself in his own mind, Patterico is not even the problem other than he seems more intent on slandering/libeling Jeff’s intent than calling Obama out.
The GOP is the only game in town to champion classical liberal principals (and it lost its way and gave up being the party of ideas for a time). It needs to get back to that. And of course it has to be inclusive of everyone it can get. That is all true. But it also has to be clear what it is not, and it is not Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Rahm Emanuel, Harry Reid, John Murtha, or Barack Obama. And it needs to say so and call them every time on their lying bullshit when they say it.
Comment by guinsPen on 3/29 @ 12:35 pm #
subscribe@Lillehammer Post-Intelligence.con
Comment by Darleen on 3/29 @ 12:36 pm #
Walthor Mitty is trying to threadjack yet again … “look at ME ME ME” it cries in order to try to distract from Obama’s march to a controlled citizenry. About as clever as a cat trying to cover its scat on a tile floor.
boring Mitty, go back to your blowup dolls, adults are talking.
Comment by Darleen on 3/29 @ 12:38 pm #
Spiny Norman
I deleted Walthor’s first comment … it has nothing to do with this thread. He is keeping them on a clip board or note pad so as to reappear them under a silly nic.
He is inanity on steroids… which also explains his lack of balls.
Comment by Phil on 3/29 @ 12:39 pm #
Seems like the libtards had a college professor learnZ them that America was founded as a wonderful Socialist People’s Republic. Best to ignore those constitution, declaration of independence and bill of rights things. Too many negative rights, not enough positive ones. Just ask O!
Of course with enough emanations and penumbras I’m sure you can find a right to health care and community organizing dollars for ACORN. You just gotta look hard. It’s there though.
Comment by cranky-d on 3/29 @ 12:40 pm #
Walthor E Moron, Sooooperrrrr Geeeeniusssss.
Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/29 @ 12:45 pm #
I agree that the increase in trolls indicates intestinal distress on their part. Paper mache messiah is falling apart in the rain. He’s taking everyone down the drain with him, is the problem.
Comment by more American than you on 3/29 @ 12:47 pm #
Brazen stupidity. Anyone else want some of my squat? C’mon outlaws, tea party wann-be revolutionaries, deluded theatrical poseurs!
Systematic risk means risk to the overall system, and it’s sad I have to start with that. Systematic risk was on display in the Enron case, remember them, Enron, c’mom broke-dick Capitalist wanna-beez think back! Who in the fuck enabled Enron to happen? Merrill Lynch, Arthur Andersen and committed non-regulatory free-market mouseketeers led by none other than that asshole Phil Gramm and his war-baby bride Wendy Gramm.
Enron was a fraud. Independently audited so as to fulfill the stock exchange requirements, independently audited by a accounting firm on the take, one called Arthur Andersen, one that collapsed in financial ruin after signing off on bogus accounting numbers. And how set up the shell game so Enron could hide its losses and in doing so show earnings, Merrill Lynch, that fraudulent house of fuckwads who fucked you the tax-payer out of billions before collapsing in financial ruin.
Following me, camera guy?
Systematic risk - risk to the system. Seems to me anyone who is an outlaw would rightfully outraged by those guilty of perpetuating fraud and adding so much systematic risk to the system that it did finally fall under the weight of that risk.
But no, it’s Bwarneee Fwank’s fault, hmm. Fuck off airheads and quit being the easily fucked over dupes that America is so famous for being over populated with. Cowards with you heads in the sand is what you are. Pussy ass non-outlaw cowards running from the truth because truth requires an investment in pursuing non-politicized facts.
Comment by Molon Labe on 3/29 @ 12:48 pm #
I think the term is “systemic risk”.
Comment by more American than you on 3/29 @ 12:48 pm #
how = who
Comment by MikeD on 3/29 @ 12:50 pm #
“Again, I say it. I hope he fails.”
No. That is not enough, Freedom Carin. Hoping gets you nothing. You have to do everything you can, no matter how seemingly small or insignificant, to make sure he does fail. If he fails America may not. Make him fail!
Comment by more American than you on 3/29 @ 12:51 pm #
Systemic, I stand corrected, by a pussy, most likely. I’ll wait for some sort of competent response before forming a conclusive opinion.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 12:52 pm #
Remember, Walter made millions on Wall St.
point and laugh.
Comment by thor on 3/29 @ 12:55 pm #
I’ll tell you, coward, what’s not enough. Beating the shit out of you in the last two elections is not enough.
Taking a two-by-four to you in every election from here to eternity would be enough.
Dumb.Fucking.Uneducated.Hick!
Comment by ccoffer on 3/29 @ 12:56 pm #
In practice, socialism and Fascism are the same thing. Welcome to the future.
Comment by SDN on 3/29 @ 12:56 pm #
Yeah, whore, I remember Enron. Operated under Clinton, prosecuted under Bush. Hmmm.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 12:56 pm #
Whatever you say, Walter.
Super-genius.
Comment by Phil on 3/29 @ 12:57 pm #
folks don’t you get it? Don’t you SEE?
The struggles that O! Is having are all due to Enron. And that fucking Arthur Andersen!
If only you could see teh TROOTH!!!1111!!!
Comment by Molon Labe on 3/29 @ 12:58 pm #
“Taking a two-by-four to you in every election from here to eternity would be enough.”
Presupposes future elections.
Comment by ccoffer on 3/29 @ 12:59 pm #
By the way: the trollhammer thing is cool as hell.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 12:59 pm #
“I’ll tell you, coward, what’s not enough. Beating the shit out of you in the last two elections is not enough.
Taking a two-by-four to you in every election from here to eternity would be enough.
Dumb.Fucking.Uneducated.Hick!”
Civility NOW!
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 1:00 pm #
This is the last time I vote for somebody just cause of the color of his skin that’s for sure.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 1:00 pm #
oh wait
Comment by Spiny Norman on 3/29 @ 1:05 pm #
Somebody must have cut Walthor off in traffic this afternoon, and he’s STILL pissed.
He’s still just an internet poseur, but damnit, he pissed!
Comment by thor on 3/29 @ 1:06 pm #
Wittle Techie Wecky pussy-boi, we’ve all read your dumb-filled comments for a few months now. What are you, in your teens? Either that or you’re another of the too-stupids who try and pretend otherwise.
I’ve lost about a million. See that, pussy-boi, that’s a better measure of how much a person made, because it’s true I have some, compared to you, yes, a lot, yes, millions, and the million I lost was required so that I could make the larger part.
Yeah, you could say I’m a millionaire. I would have thought Jeff might’a looked up my address, that would illuminate I don’t live in area populated by broke-dicks. Yes, I live mostly off what’s in my bank and brokerage accounts. Yes, I have some companies that enable me to write off related expenses but I don’t really have to work, asshole. And yes, my parents are wealthy, so what.
Say something intelligent, Techie, I dare ya, outlaw.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 1:06 pm #
BTW, didn’t Fannie Mae have it’s own huge accounting scandal in the first half of this decade?
Why yes, yes it did. Curse my memories!
[WASHINGTON (May 23, 2006) - Senior executives at Fannie Mae manipulated accounting to collect millions of dollars in undeserved bonuses and to deceive investors, a federal report charged Tuesday. The government-sponsored mortgage company was fined $400 million.
The blistering report by the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, the result of an extensive three-year investigation, was issued as Fannie Mae struggled to emerge from an $11 billion accounting scandal. Also Tuesday, the housing oversight agency and the Securities and Exchange Commission announced a $400 million civil penalty against Fannie Mae in a settlement over the alleged accounting manipulation.]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12923225/
Comment by kasper on 3/29 @ 1:08 pm #
Uh oh, Thor’s all puffed up know.
Comment by kasper on 3/29 @ 1:09 pm #
Correction: Uh oh, Thor’s all puffed up NOW.
Comment by Spiny Norman on 3/29 @ 1:09 pm #
Describing thor as a “Walter Mitty” is looking increasingly generous.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 1:10 pm #
Dumb filled comments for a few months now?
Meds wearing off, thor? I’ve been posting here for at least the last 4 years. “We’ve”, got a mouse in your pocket?
Being accused of being in my “teens” coming from someone who writes like you and spends their idle hours trolling an internet site is deliciously ironic.
Comment by ThomasD on 3/29 @ 1:10 pm #
Made millions on Wall Street? Geez, then you’d think he could afford some treatment for the Tourette’s…
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 1:10 pm #
I found a coupon for those Manaschewitz vanilla fudge tam tam thingers what are so tasty PLUS they’re half off cause of Ralph’s is discontinuing them. That’s being very savvy with money I think. Ok the coupon was right on the package of the last Manaschewitz vanilla fudge tam tam thingers I bought but it’s still savvy.
Pingback by Big Government Is The Way Out Of All Our Troubles « Justbkuz on 3/29 @ 1:11 pm #
[...] to Protein Wisdom for that ray of sunshine on this gloomy blogging day Possibly related posts: (automatically [...]
Comment by Jeff G. on 3/29 @ 1:13 pm #
I defer to your expertise as a non-bumbling, seasoned focker of butts.
Comment by thor on 3/29 @ 1:13 pm #
What are you saying, stupid, that the Clinton administration would have blocked prosecution of the largest corporate fraud in American history prior to the last debacle.
Hmm, you’re stupid.
Ken Lay, who did he contribute large sums of money to? George W. Bush. I bet you didn’t think of that before you tried to point that stupid finger of yours.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 1:16 pm #
Ah yes, I remember GWB blocking prosecution of Ken Lay. Why, he’s probably on some Bahamian beach sipping pinas and smoking a Cuban as we speak. The lucky bastard…….
Comment by rrpjr on 3/29 @ 1:18 pm #
He means ill. But there is a great fear of this recognition, certainly its discussion, among the polite company of national politics. Meanwhile he’s come up with the most brilliant cover possible — the affects and blandishments of the salutary and Socratic man. The Left truly hit the jackpot with this character. He broke their mold. And conservatives, or the ones at the peaks of public awareness, haven’t even come cose to figuring it out. Until they do, nothing changes.
Comment by Phil on 3/29 @ 1:20 pm #
Forget enron and ken lay. You know who I blame for O!’s failures?
Warren G. Fucking Harding is who. The teapot dome scandal is responsible for this.
Don’t you SEE?
Comment by Darleen on 3/29 @ 1:20 pm #
Techie
Wouldn’t that really be Marc Rich sipping cognac on the shores of Lake Lucerne?
Comment by Joe on 3/29 @ 1:23 pm #
Jonah, re your musings on JournoList, Marty Peretz the alleged “f***ing racist” and “crazy-a** racist”, and his lack of defenders:
Like you, I don’t know him and have never had any contact with him. I seem to recall him taking a swipe at me during the 2000 Florida recount, but that’s ancient history. And I agree with Lisa that he’s a Zionist rather than a racist, and that increasingly liberals seem to have adopted their own version of the old UN Zionism=racism thing, which is why he’s being targeted in the first place.
However, speaking as someone who gets called a racist by the left all the time, I’d always assumed, as when the mob take the tire iron to you in the back alley, that it’s all business, nothing personal: just what’s necessary to get the job done. It’s rather sad to find this is the way they talk in private, too. For what it’s worth, I don’t regard that Peretz quote as “beyond the pale”, but, if it is, why bother being a writer? I can’t see why anybody would want to enter a profession in which that passage exceeds the very narrow and strictly enforced bounds within which these subjects can be discussed…
Again, whenever the ever reliable “all right-wing men are secretly gay” charge raises its head - see how this thread quickly dissolves into the critical issue of whether it’s Glenn Beck or I who most enjoys wearing frilly panties (answer: it’s me; Glenn prefers a teddy) - I always assume that, too, is strictly business. It’s heartening to know that, in the echo chamber of the JournoList, they turn their lurid obsessions on their own.
By the way, I’ll pay, oh, a buck-seventy-three for any leaked thread from the JournoList hinting that Andrew Sullivan is secretly heterosexual.
Mark Steyn shows it is not just you getting lied about…
Comment by Spiny Norman on 3/29 @ 1:25 pm #
Ken Lay, who did he contribute large sums of money to in 1996? William J. Clinton. I bet you didn’t think of that before you tried to point that stupid finger of yours.
Comment by guinsPen on 3/29 @ 1:27 pm #
Somebody must have cut Walthor off in traffic this afternoon, and he’s STILL pissed.
I say at the tavern.
Comment by MikeD on 3/29 @ 1:29 pm #
“Dumb.Fucking.Uneducated.Hick!”
From you thor, that is a compliment! I would return your fine, courteous rejoinders but why would I want to waste my time on someone so insignificant, unimportant, and tiresome?
Comment by Sdferr on 3/29 @ 1:30 pm #
Nobody here remembers “Enron” in any useful sense, nobody. Remembering Enron is meant to invoke incomplete opinions, misrememberings, and general stupidities “about” it, it’s officers, it’s accountants, it’s clients and it’s employees. Nothing more.
Comment by Veeshir on 3/29 @ 1:33 pm #
You don’t know the difference between socialism and fascism?
Why, they’re totally different.
First off, socialists are communists without guns.
And the difference between communists and fascists is wide and deep.
In communism, everybody works together for the People, subsuming their individuality for the greater good of the People.
See? Totally different.
Comment by Veeshir on 3/29 @ 1:34 pm #
In fascism, everybody works together for the State, subsuming their individuality for the greater good of the State.
(forgot this part?
Comment by kasper on 3/29 @ 1:35 pm #
Dear leader “like I fuckin care,” please, please teach us. I really thought I wanted to be an “outlaw” but your schtick sounds SO much cooler!
Comment by Jeff G. on 3/29 @ 1:37 pm #
My contract is up in 2 days. Thank God.
Comment by mossberg500 on 3/29 @ 1:39 pm #
So George Bush was the one who forced California to neglect its energy infrastructure? How interesting? Isn’t it the California leadership’s responsibility to do the risk assessment regarding the State’s energy needs? Gee, maybe the never ending environmental impact studies could have created some energy(if you burn them). Seems to me that if California spent their tax dollars on securing their energy indepedence, Enron would have had a difficult time spiking the rates. Can you say PUC?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 1:44 pm #
Thor must be in his manic phase.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 1:46 pm #
Enron executives were driven to suicide.
Fannie Mae executives were given Obama Administration appointments and advisory roles.
[Fannie Cancels Executive Bonuses
Regulator Considers Review 'Complete'
By David S. Hilzenrath
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 21, 2007; Page D01
Fannie Mae's board has decided not to give out executive bonuses potentially worth $44.4 million for some of the years when the federally chartered housing finance company's earnings were misstated.
The stock awards had been on hold since early 2005 after the company was caught up in an accounting scandal. They could have totaled $11.2 million for Franklin D. Raines, former chairman and chief executive; $3.4 million for J. Timothy Howard, former finance chief; $1.1 million for Jamie S. Gorelick, a former vice chairman; and $4 million for Raines's successor as chief executive, Daniel H. Mudd, company spokesman Brian Faith said.
A total of 46 current and former executives were affected.]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022001666.html
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 1:49 pm #
thor, you stupid, aimless, ignorant, blinded bastard, but I repeat myself. Given your abysmal record publishing anything but obscenities here — your incoherent rage makes an accurate barometer for the failure of leftism: the more it fails, the more enraged you become and the narrower your spew — it figures you’d miss the entire basis of a monetary system now falling apart. Worldwide.
Debt. The dollar is debt, you stone-headed moron. It’s debt. It must go this way.
So make an ass of yourself spouting off about Enron. You are a handy and reliable gage of a view perpetually out of phase with reality.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 1:50 pm #
Thor really needs to go visit opensecrets.org before cracking wise in comments.
But I understand it’s more about the narrative than actual facts. Life is more straightforward when you live in a fantasy world, it appears.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/29 @ 1:51 pm #
If you had told me last summer that thor was going to become increasingly unhinged and incoherent, I wouldn’t have believed you.
But, live and learn.
Comment by Sdferr on 3/29 @ 1:52 pm #
As to fraud in business, Spinoza put it this way, “There will be vices as long as there will be human beings.” There are no saviors in human affairs.
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 1:59 pm #
I’m betting thor’s pissed because it’s subconsciously dawning on it that its donated life is enumerated in donated and obsolete units of exchange. Even its literature, such as it is, is deviant and vicarious, an imposter for integrity, a quality it’s inexperienced in.
thor’s a button pusher, a fiction, a tool. The pup has no skill, no survivability, no future, and no discernible shame or soul. If I were a tiny dispensable pot-metal cog turning on a dry shaft I’d be mad too.
Comment by Vermont Neighbor on 3/29 @ 2:01 pm #
No, the question is, who did Madoff contribute large sums of stolen money to? Thor, one thing’s for sure. You’re more American than Obama, and God knows he sets the bar low. But still, you’re screaming at your keyboard, flaming the rage. All he can do is look drugged or dopey for the camera and somehow choke back his next embarrassing double entendre. The man talks in nonstop derogatory scat terms, in case you didn’t notice. Special Olympics. Typical White Person. Bitter-clingers.
What you should do is take your anger out directly on the disaster himself. What you should not do is castrate anyone who calls this joker for what he is: sinister and duplicitous, yanked by strings down at Soros headquarters. All for his ego and for Allah, if Allah will have him. You tell me if he’s an apostate or a ‘Christianist’.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/29 @ 2:23 pm #
If that’s the case, Thor, why’d you lose a million bucks?
Comment by kasper on 3/29 @ 2:33 pm #
I suppose we’ll have to hear the wrath of Thor when he realizes he’s choked chicken after being left holding the last precious asset bag.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 2:34 pm #
I don’t give a lukewarm fuck about exploiting the market, thor. That’s your bailiwick. GET TO IT, MAN!
Comment by Vermont Neighbor on 3/29 @ 2:40 pm #
“You people could be focused on how to exploit the market meltdown as a money making opportunity”
Funny, I did that today and realized what’s the best that could happen? Hustle up something, sell it, give 90% to run the Obama national civilian army.
Disneyland should do an interactive Obama display, like the old Lincoln thing except touchy-feely. Twenty bucks, you sit in front of a 6-foot Barry mannequin and press the buttons for an in-depth dialogue. The teleprompter would guide tourists in how to experience the actual messiah effect of a man who’s not really there. High points score tokens, Obama coins… easy to use in a big glass cage of prizes. Obama is hawt. He’s bigger than Michael Jackson. He’s probably headed for the same fate too.
Comment by mossberg500 on 3/29 @ 2:40 pm #
I am making the psuedo-Capitalist faggots pay for their sins by picking them off when they sell their precious assets at a price far below what it’s worth. Meaning, I buy when they choke like the chickens they are.
That’s pretty hilarious considering Enron took advantage of the California faggots for failing to invest in their energy infrastructure. And California is all for alernative energy development…oh wait!
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/29 @ 2:42 pm #
Twenty bucks, you sit in front of a 6-foot Barry mannequin and press the buttons for an in-depth dialogue.
Lube, condom, and Preparation H sold separately.
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 2:44 pm #
Blah, blah, blah. Like I always say about you, thor: Having no soul and thus none of the fruits of one, you’re tailor-made for the role of bottom-feeding subservient. No vision, no grasp, no future. You confuse cause with position as much in yourself as you do in others.
There’s no question why you can only survive by manipulation. Considering what you could have brought to and made of life, you’re a walking peter principle.
Comment by donald on 3/29 @ 2:47 pm #
What a homo. Really.
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 2:50 pm #
thor exists, donald. The quintessential investigated life.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 2:51 pm #
Surf temp’s 73F today, thor. Oh, and kind of overcast and windy.
Maybe thor lives in a different Florida than I do.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/29 @ 2:53 pm #
Thor lives in a different universe than you do, Slart.
Comment by kasper on 3/29 @ 2:54 pm #
Was it all worth, Thor? Are you lonely? You seem so miserable.
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 2:55 pm #
Cold front passed a couple hours ago, Slart. Different than mine too.
Comment by gus on 3/29 @ 2:55 pm #
Give me one motherfucking example of a program or idea by a liberal that ever had success.
Then give me an example of an idea Obama has ever had in his pathetic Marxist life.
Liberals are unproductive leaches.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 2:58 pm #
What part of FL do you live in, JHoward?
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 3:02 pm #
Mid-west coast, Slart.
Comment by Abe Froman on 3/29 @ 3:03 pm #
It’s so hard to suffer thorry’s rage, incoherent rambling and tough guy facade on the interwebs knowing I’d put up with it for 60 seconds in real life before a flurry of cartoon stars preceded his head thudding on the floor.
Comment by blowhard as deranged leftist on 3/29 @ 3:04 pm #
Spinoza? If he was alive today he’d be working at LensCrafters!
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 3:04 pm #
I don’t know, Abe. He might slug you in the forehead.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/29 @ 3:06 pm #
You can’t avoid losses when you risk. That’s why you manage risk. The existence of risk allows you to profit as well as to lose, smart ass noob. When your profits are more than you losses then you’ve won, but you can’t play if you can’t take a loss, or cut you loss.
True enough, but you’re the one thumping his chest at his ability to outwit the dullard capitalists in your midst. Seems to me that lots of them outwitted you.
And I really don’t know what this has to do with being a supporter of the free market system. Can one not recognize that the free market is superior to every other so-called system ever devised without being a shark on the trading floor? Can one be a baseball fan even if one cannot pump a slider over the left field wall like Albert Pujols?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 3:06 pm #
Ah. I live in Orlando area. I have a sister that lives out near Manasota Key, near Venice.
Comment by Abe Froman on 3/29 @ 3:08 pm #
Only on a dead cat bounce JHoward.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 3:11 pm #
I think thor’s having an off-meds day. Possibly, week.
Comment by Jeff G. on 3/29 @ 3:14 pm #
Tell you what, thor. Send me $10K and I’ll invest it.
PayPal button on the left.
Comment by kasper on 3/29 @ 3:14 pm #
Shhhht! Shhhht! Thor, you’re giving away all your precious secrets.
Comment by blowhard on 3/29 @ 3:16 pm #
Remember that awesome band called Volatility and the Greeks? My favorite member was Theta. I think he played rhythm guitar.
Comment by Abe Froman on 3/29 @ 3:16 pm #
thor sounds like one of those Guinness Beer commercials.
Buy low and sell high?????
Brilliant!!!!!
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 3:21 pm #
There’s plenty of free parking and beach access up north of Sebastian, thor. That’s where I tend to hang out. I don’t like having to elbow all the way down there, and then have to elbow my way out to the water. Sucks.
Nice part of the country, that aside. Too crowded for me, though. Where would I put my vegetable garden?
Man-o-wars is vicious, right about now, on most of the coast. So getting in the water may not be in the cards, anyhow.
Boca’s a little further south than I’d remembered you living. Probably it doesn’t suck down there, yet.
Comment by donald on 3/29 @ 3:24 pm #
I started my company with a $750.00 secured credit card. Let’s just say, that I do pretty well. I can buy Thor’s assets, then shove ‘em up his ass. In other words I’m a real capitalist, and I can absolutely take care of anybody that talks like this shit head. And I DO understand the balk rule and all of it’s interpretations, which makes me special here I bet.
Comment by donald on 3/29 @ 3:42 pm #
Why should I fuck off of anything? I’m a productive member of society, I employ people, pay taxes, and own a bunch of shit. You for whatever you say don’t. And once again, I know the balk rule.
Comment by ushie on 3/29 @ 3:46 pm #
More american than you wrote: You don’t even make fuckin’ sense, ya bumbling buttfocker.
Please learn to spell. Thank you.
Comment by ushie on 3/29 @ 3:49 pm #
Reader’s Digest Condensed thor: “I’m rich and you’re stupid!”
Me: “I’m Marie the Queen of Romania and you’re no Jared Padalecki!”
Comment by ushie on 3/29 @ 3:57 pm #
Oh, and I lived on Carbon Beach in a veddy nice apartment in Malibu, thor. And I only made about one thousand bucks a month.
I mean, one’s address really means very little.
Comment by ushie on 3/29 @ 3:58 pm #
My GOD, I must be bored today.
Oh, and the financial crisis? All Duke Ferdinand’s fault. Really.
Comment by donald on 3/29 @ 4:00 pm #
How’s about that GM thing? We got our first real live Robert Mugabee level meglo-maniac running things. Hope he don’t start handing out machetes to his people.
Comment by Abe Froman on 3/29 @ 4:04 pm #
I love thor’s roving definition of rich.
Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/29 @ 4:06 pm #
I would be on the lookout for other means of control, don. They know better than to bring a knife to a gun fight.
Comment by PC14 on 3/29 @ 4:08 pm #
My money quote from Styn:
“Think about it: It takes extraordinary skill to create and manage a billion-dollar company; there are very few human beings on the planet who can do it. Now look at Obama and Geithner, the two men currently “managing†more money than any individuals in human history: not billions, but trillions.”
The arrogance of Teh One. Oh, the arrogance.
Comment by Sdferr on 3/29 @ 4:08 pm #
Anyone reckon that Obama will be asking the head of the UAW to step down? What, no?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/29 @ 4:14 pm #
At least he didn’t ask him to commit Hari-kari.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 4:19 pm #
If I told thor that I lived for several years on Cape Cod with a, albeit through a lot of trees, view of Martha’s Vineyard, would it blow his mind?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/29 @ 4:26 pm #
“Every union man and woman has done their job under the terms he agreed to.”
Terms agreed to at the point of a gun with the threat of walkouts and strikes.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 4:29 pm #
Then why does BMW get flack for operating plants in South Carolina?
I mean, obviously Wagner Act Unionism had done a bang-up job for the Rust Belt’s economy. What could one possibly find fault with it?
Comment by Sdferr on 3/29 @ 4:31 pm #
Actually I was in a Union for awhile. What’s the problem with trade Unions? What’s the problem with any monopolistic practice? Why have trade Union’s enrollment declined in the US? Big bad conspiracy out to get them, or workers seeking their own interests, finding their circumstances better off outside Union control?
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 4:32 pm #
Shareholder oversight?
I will allow that Obama is getting to be quite a shareholder these days.
[The Obama administration asked Rick Wagoner, the chairman and CEO of General Motors, to step down and he agreed, a White House official said.
On Monday, President Obama is to unveil his plans for the auto industry, including a response to a request for additional funds by GM and Chrysler.
Wagoner’s resignation was one of the remarkable strings attached to the new aid package the administration is offering GM, based on recommendations from the Presidential Task Force on the Auto Industry, headed by the Treasury Department.
The White House confirmed Wagoner was leaving at the government's behest after The Associated Press reported his immediate departure, without giving a reason.]
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20625.html
I vote we appoint Tim Geithner as the new one.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 4:35 pm #
I’d really like to know what it’s going to take to “save” GM. I have a sinking feeling it isn’t going to be electric cars painted in reflective colors.
Comment by MikeD on 3/29 @ 4:37 pm #
Tiresome. Very tiresome.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/29 @ 4:39 pm #
Thor I will take that bet about the GM stocks.
Comment by Darleen on 3/29 @ 4:40 pm #
Techie
“Saving” the autoindustry will be Obama’s green dictates. GM was making money because Americans wanted SUV’s and foreign nations (China) loved mid-sized cars.
But with gas back down in the two buck range, small car/hybrid sales have stalled. Now listen as The Messiah floating talk about a permanent floor on gas at $4/gal to force the hoi poloi to “choose” small cars.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 4:43 pm #
So, GM currently has no CEO and the government is going to announce assistance to a rudderless company?
I can’t possibly see the downside.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/29 @ 4:45 pm #
GM stock=fuckin worthless.
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 4:48 pm #
My moron senator says Detroit is in deep trouble because of not enough enviro regulations. Not enough. Because GM makes more overseas where they shot CARB to hell.
My moron senator, like O!, is a lying opportunist, looking at this crisis — of government’s making, natch — and licking thor’s chops.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 4:48 pm #
It’s smarter to buy their stock than their cars I think.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/29 @ 4:50 pm #
This sucks I was going to buy the new Camaro in April.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 4:51 pm #
Whatever you say, Walter.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 4:53 pm #
GM can do what it wants. I own no GM stock and I drive a Subaru. All I can do is feel bad for my neighbors.
Comment by Diana on 3/29 @ 5:08 pm #
What … thor just had another high colonic? What a surprise!
Comment by MarkJ on 3/29 @ 5:09 pm #
Read the part about Salvador Allende’s political and economic program and tell me if it reminds you of someone else’s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende
If past is prologue, then President Cover-Boy doesn’t yet realize he’s in for a world of hurt.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 5:12 pm #
all of us is hurt hurt hurt. Whole country. Very very big damage. You’re not safe nowheres.
Comment by Carin on 3/29 @ 5:26 pm #
I bet Wagoner is super happy he’s been working for a dollar for all these months.
Comment by Ella on 3/29 @ 5:30 pm #
Mr Pink, you may get a good deal on that Corvette. They’re sweet cars. A little too much of a boy car for me, but still slick.
I was looking at getting a new Cobalt or Malibu this year. (My car is ooooooooold.) I’ve driven them as rentals when I traveled, and I thought they were really nice for the price.
Comment by Carin on 3/29 @ 5:31 pm #
When GM was profitable is had a union, no, dumbbot? Snide little stupid-fuck blaming the average hard-working American who is paid to do what he’s told instead of the chardonnay sipping idiots who get paid like kings to keep a company profitable yet turned around and ran the company into the ground.
30 and out is the problem with UAW. Retire at 48, with healthcare, dental, pensions for life. How many people can retire at 48? Was pretty common up here.
Comment by Ella on 3/29 @ 5:31 pm #
BTW, thor made it really, really hard to get through this thread. Is he worse than usual? Or have I just gotten accustomed to his being gone?
Comment by Carin on 3/29 @ 5:33 pm #
And, obviously thor never met union workers up here with five (new) cars and travel trailers and second homes up on the Lake. Again. Pretty common up here.
They may not have been sipping chardonnay, but many certainly got paid - and lived- like kings.
Comment by Carin on 3/29 @ 5:34 pm #
Ella, that’s pretty standard thor. When he’s manic. Or, just got in a new load of smack.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/29 @ 5:36 pm #
Ella have you seen the new Camaro? Sweet.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/29 @ 5:41 pm #
BTW, thor made it really, really hard to get through this thread.
Ella: thank me later.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/29 @ 5:49 pm #
I think some stockbrokers will be wiping their asses with GM stock come 10:15 Monday morning. When that happens will you come back on here thor and admit you are semi-delusional and retarded?
Comment by cranky-d on 3/29 @ 5:58 pm #
He craves attention. Don’t give it to him.
Comment by cranky-d on 3/29 @ 5:58 pm #
Just a suggestion, of course.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/29 @ 6:04 pm #
Normally I do but my girlfriend is watching Foodnetwork right now and I am bored beyond belief.
Comment by Timstigator on 3/29 @ 6:15 pm #
I scanned a few of Turd’s posts and noted that not once did he explain how Steyn was wrong and he right. He just resorted to ad hominem attacks against all here. I don’t have the time right now to read the whole string. It seems when faced with the cow’s asshole, lefties go crazy. (Indulgent ad hominem: shitheads!)
Comment by gus on 3/29 @ 6:29 pm #
It seems that the dimwit with the giant ears takes small problems and grows them into big one. I wonder how the nearly 4 billion going to ACORN solves any of our problems. We know what that does for Obama’s problems.
Obama is an utter fuck up of Bibilical proportions. How can anyone be surprised. Obama knows nothing about BUSINESS, nothing about UNIONS, nothing about FINANCE and nothing about the ECONOMY,.
Comment by rrpjr on 3/29 @ 6:41 pm #
Timstigator — in the few years I’ve been tossing in my two cents to various websites I have yet to come across a civil and persuasive leftist who could sustain an argument to a good end. Not once. They either don’t seem to have much confidence in their “positions” (if we can call them that) to make a case, or have too much contempt for opponents to bother trying, or (knowing the wreckage wrought by their ideas throughout history) feel bullying onslaught is the only way to win the day.
Comment by cranky-d on 3/29 @ 6:46 pm #
I live alone, don’t have a girlfriend, and I don’t think I’m ever bored. I shall ponder this some time. But not now.
Comment by LTC John on 3/29 @ 6:46 pm #
ushie, or should I say “your Majesty” (Romania, eh?). Don’t worry about that Franz Ferdinand fellah - I got to stand on the spot he got his. Not much of a neighborhood anymore.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/29 @ 6:48 pm #
If certain sectors of corporate America aren’t brought under control then our economy will implode. This couldn’t be more obvious to anyone who witnessed the events which led the Treasury and the Fed bailing out our banks.
I wonder what magical thing happens when a company is brought under control of the central state. Does cash flow somehow improve? Do its assets suddenly jump in value? Do its liabilities disappear?
More likely, it’s as I witnessed with “os estatais” in Brazil: They become cash cows for crooked politicians and jobs programs that swell in employment just before elections.
No, thor, you’re no capitalist. You’re a parasite on capitalism.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/29 @ 7:18 pm #
Well, I’ve read Bastiat, Smith, Hayek, Mises, Rothbard, Williams, Friedman, Hazlitt…but maybe all those dunderheads got it wrong about the free market. Pray, thor, tell us all what capitalism is. I’m dying to hear.
Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/29 @ 7:18 pm #
Puts the Thor in Thorazine.
Has a surprising amount of time to spend on those it considers irrelevant insects.
Will deny that the amount of time it spends is significant.
Probably trolls lefty sites posing as a conservative.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/29 @ 7:19 pm #
Oh, and I shorted the market last September. I’m making out like a fucking bandit. Does that make me a capitalist?
Comment by Abe Froman on 3/29 @ 7:21 pm #
Thor, master capitalist, grinding out his wealth with teh value investing without taking off his Wonder Woman jammies.
Comment by Abe Froman on 3/29 @ 7:39 pm #
You can’t match wits with anyone thor because if you ever have a real point finding it would be like digging through a Civet’s shit for a coffee bean.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/29 @ 7:40 pm #
Perhaps my browser is defective, because I didn’t see a short essay on the nature of capitalism in that characteristically vulgar reply. As for what I do with my money, that’s my own business. I know, as a Smithian “man of system,” that drives you batty. I’ll be buying when the Obama administration is done stomping around in the market and fascist cretins such as you again have the levers of power wrenched from your clumsy mitts. I’ll feel a lot more sure of things at that point. Until then, I’ve gone Galt.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 7:44 pm #
At least if you find that bean, it’s worth something. This is not the analogy you wanted, I think. The sound and fury, etc one works just fine.
Comment by Barack J. LePetobamaine on 3/29 @ 7:44 pm #
name calling pussy whose breath needs to be rinsed of Larry Craig
You use your tongue prettier than a twenty-dollar thor.
Comment by router on 3/29 @ 7:49 pm #
mr. secretary sir you like crony capitalism
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/29 @ 7:53 pm #
mr. secretary sir you like crony capitalism
The very essence of the fascist state, no?
Comment by router on 3/29 @ 8:01 pm #
or a banana republic
Comment by Sdferr on 3/29 @ 8:10 pm #
Paul Kanjorski’s House Financial Services Committee held a hearing around March 10 and took testimony from the chairman of FASB, the SEC’s chief Accountant among others. The upshot was Kanjorski telling the FASB fellow that he had three to four weeks to change the mark to market system to something more amenable to the current liquidity crisis as Kanjorski sees it, and that if FASB didn’t make the change, Kanjorski vowed his committee would, which, he implied, might not please FASB all that well. It seems to me as though this could be a pretty damned important market event, whichever way it comes to pass. So I wonder, has anyone heard any reporting on the subject or have other knowledge of it that would advance our own?
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 8:16 pm #
Having turned another thread into his personal catbox, thor will now characteristically avoid illustrating the left’s tormented philosophy. This is for two reasons.
thor is the rot. He comes here because abuse reminds him of love.
The first reason he’s also ignorant of.
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 8:17 pm #
The price we pay to really show daddy.
Comment by JHoward on 3/29 @ 8:23 pm #
Can you address this topic rationally?
And then I laughed and laughed and laughed.
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 3/29 @ 8:37 pm #
Thor, I think you’ve rather eloquently made the case for unfettered markets in the above. The compulsion to mitigate the risk associated with bad actors in the market through the intercession of government is essentially to provide a means by which bad actors can wield far greater power than they would otherwise. This is why so many are pointing to the CRA and so forth; it was the butterfly flapping it’s wings in D.C. what produced the hurricane on Wall Street. Yes, there are indeed bad actors in the marketplace. No, regulation does not mitigate them, it emboldens and empowers them.
Again, P.J. O’Rourke is instructive: “When buying and selling is regulated, the first thing to be bought and sold is the regulator.”
Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/29 @ 8:40 pm #
Huh. The Thor entity shits in a box for real.
Perhaps the entity could resolve the fundamental paradox of Thor - why would a (by its own account) superhumanly cool operator spend a single moment in a place that it considers so insignificant? Elsewhere, there must be mountain ranges to shift and so on.
Comment by Techie on 3/29 @ 8:49 pm #
He’s a giver, that one.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/29 @ 8:57 pm #
That makes no sense.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 9:00 pm #
I always go out of my way to maximalize government’s role in my business affairs. I’m astute like that, but who isn’t these days.
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 3/29 @ 9:17 pm #
I’ll let you argue with Peter Wallison. To wit:
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 9:29 pm #
I don’t need to argue with any political hack propagandist. Bear, Lehman, Merrill did not use FNMA or FHMLC to package the bulk of the mortgages they purchased and then sold as CDOs. Everyone knows this. The investment banks bought the mortgages, creatively packaged them and sent them to the rating agencies where their creativity paid off as they received AAA ratings from Moodys and Fitch and the like. They then sold those CDOs to customers around the world, banks were good customers, because, as you know, AAA paper doesn’t catch the accounting scrutiny lower rated paper does. Gaping hole in the audit process, that.
Comment by pdbuttons on 3/29 @ 9:34 pm #
can i suggest?
of course i can…
i dunno what class/ colour u be
i want to thank u smarties,,,
but….
butt/butt,,,behuele butt.,..
stinky fart hi/lo’
piggly wiggly
….
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 3/29 @ 9:36 pm #
I guess I don’t need to point out that you’re essentially saying that you refuse to address the substance of his argument. I’m not disputing your account of what happened. I agree. The question is what was the systemic predicate for this and therefore what should be the ameliorative prescription. Wallison addresses some of this in that piece as well:
Comment by pdbuttons on 3/29 @ 9:40 pm #
spell check
Comment by B Moe on 3/29 @ 9:42 pm #
Enron was where it was first exposed that Wall Street, and banks like Bank of America, and even our trusted accounting firms were more than willing to work fraud for a fee…
Yup. Before Enron there was no corruption or fraud.
Ever.
I read it in the funny papers.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/29 @ 9:42 pm #
I recall the ADM 3a with fondness. Not sure what it’s got to do with current markets, though.
Comment by B Moe on 3/29 @ 9:45 pm #
Bear, Lehman, Merrill did not use FNMA or FHMLC to package the bulk of the mortgages they purchased and then sold as CDOs. Everyone knows this. The investment banks bought the mortgages, creatively packaged them and sent them to the rating agencies where their creativity paid off as they received AAA ratings from Moodys and Fitch and the like. They then sold those CDOs to customers around the world…
When did they start doing this? And why?
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/29 @ 9:45 pm #
Sorry, Barry/Gordy, the G20 won’t be flushing any more money down your “stimulus” rathole this year.
Ministers were struggling to maintain momentum for the G20 summit last night after it emerged that any spending decisions would be deferred to a later meeting….yesterday Downing Street suggested that a further summit at which this week’s issues might be revisited would be unlikely to be held before 2010….At the weekend Michael Froman, a senior White House official dealing with the G20, continued to insist on fiscal stimulus…
Bwahahahahah! “Insist” all you want, Michael. Not gonna happen.
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 9:48 pm #
If your bullshit about CRA arm twisting the lending standards is so relevant, why was FNMA, FHLMC and FHA loans such a small percentage of the overall subprime market? It didn’t help, but it was not what brought down our system. They still required paperwork and certain metrics be applied, that’s why. Wall Street directly funded the subprime lenders, not indirectly.
Get reality through your overly political desperately blame-only-the-Dems head. Wall Street was able to do so on such a grand scale because they were not regulated enough in combination with being given increased leverage ability. The S.E.C. allowed the net capital lending ratios of the big five investment banks to increase from 15-to-1 to 40-to-1 in 2004, even though hedge funds were already playing the highly leveraged game by borrowing massive capital from the Wall Street investment banks to do so, so you could say Wall Street was already indirectly increasing its leverage into the subprime market prior to 2004.
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 10:00 pm #
If you’ll remember that after 9/11 Greenspan lowered interest rates to stimulate the U.S. economy that was still recovering from the internet bubble implosion and then the terrorist attack.
His action spurred an acceleration in housing starts as the yield curve remained flat which brought down mortgage rates to historic lows thus allowing historically attractive rates to borrowers.
You could say the became became primed in 2002, was hot by 2004 and over-heated in 2006.
Wall Street was making piles of money underwriting CDOs and CMOs, making larger piles doing that than of their other business segments. So they went running into it head first, almost racing each other to do the largest mortgage collarteralization volume.
Hi sPies, can I spin the propeller on your beanie. I promise I won’t knock you off your tricycle this time. Oh, by the way, this thread is for grown ups. So fuck off, loser.
Comment by takeshi kovacs on 3/29 @ 10:01 pm #
The reality is that a great many factors went into this crisis of confidence, recession, depression. The ideological impetus behind the 1994 Boston Fed study, the revisions to the CRA,
the Scholes/Merton equations and their
applications to high finance, notably derivatives which trade at a value several times the global GDP, the HUD guidelines imposed
by Cisneros, Cuomo and Martinez, the sinecures for Dodd, and Frank, like that line from “Heart
of Darkness” all of Europe contributed to Kurtz.
Comment by B Moe on 3/29 @ 10:23 pm #
Greenspan lowered interest rates to stimulate the U.S. economy that was still recovering from the internet bubble implosion and then the terrorist attack.
His action spurred an acceleration in housing starts as the yield curve remained flat which brought down mortgage rates to historic lows thus allowing historically attractive rates to borrowers.
And who was Greenspan’s employer?
Not on that large a scale.
And it is a matter of scale, not scope. It is important to remember that.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/29 @ 10:24 pm #
Big companies have the best office furniture, looking at brands. Government ones have the most ergonomic furniture and stuff though. They have people in HR what get ergonomics certified.
Comment by B Moe on 3/29 @ 10:42 pm #
The Fed Chief is appointed by the President and approved by congress for set terms. It is supposed to be a non-political appointment and office.
Supposed to be. I like that.
What I can’t figure, is that no matter which side of any argument I look at in this thread, it still all comes down to some manner of government meddling or malfeasance caused the problem. So how can anyone think that more government involvement and less responsibility from the private sector is going to be an improvement?
Comment by B Moe on 3/29 @ 11:21 pm #
The government is evil and the private sector God-like narrative defies the current reality.
So why don’t you drop it and join the conversation the rest of us are having? You are the one that blamed the collapse on Greenspan, I am only asking questions.
Comment by B Moe on 3/29 @ 11:25 pm #
Too many rolled out the back door with millions but not before they burnt down the investment houses. It’s that simple, actually. Greed and no recourse of related consequences is what set Wall Street ablaze.
What we need is a policing agency, correct? A system of checks and balances? But how can you have that when the government is an active partner? Are you honestly trying to make the argument that the government isn’t greedy?
Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/30 @ 12:42 am #
Has Thor ever been this communicative before?
Comment by malaclypse the tertiary on 3/30 @ 1:40 am #
I won’t dispute this inasmuch as it exists. The issue is one of predictability. Simply put, there are things that can much more easily—and perhaps only—be understood using organic systems. Our entire metaphysical outlook—vis-a-vis the enlightenment—is dictated by deterministic, reductionistic model-making. Markets, as human technologies go, are somewhat unique. Markets are non-deterministic and defy reduction; they are reminiscent of biological systems. And why is it, as Clayton Christensen has noted that some 90%+ of businesses, once they reach market cap, never grow again organically, if not for the fact that markets defy top-down hierarchical models; just like the “global climate. Indeed, part of the reason new entrants have disruptive advantages over incumbent firms is precisely because they’re able to employ emergent strategies and organic operational structures.
By contrast, government only has at its disposal—by definition—deterministic systems through which it can intervene in the market. It simply cannot predict market behavior, any more than climate scientists can predict climate changes with any alacrity. There are simply too many variables AND you have a uncertainty problem; we don’t know what we don’t know. That’s why I think it’s best that government confine it’s activity to the policing of generally understood ethical provisions; provisions that are understandable by the layperson. Beyond that is to create structures which are much more easily gamed than the market itself and for which the outcome is unpredictable.
I have far more faith in the collective creative energy of the market to create operational structures and transparencies as a matter of technology and social disposition over time than I do in the government imposing as much. Governments are not accurate descriptive models of human behavior; they are necessary evils whose necessity arises from the need for common playing fields and whose evil derives from its deterministic nature. Markets do act like people and therefore they are impossibly creative and potentially problematic, stupid or evil. So they need to be policed. But only in the ways that humans need to be policed. No killing. No stealing. You know, the basic stuff. Other than that, leave us the fuck alone. Otherwise, you sap the creativity.
And that’s what matters Thor. The creativity. The vibrancy. Those things can not be planned for. They can only be cultivated. You know, like a Psilocybe cubensis spore.
Comment by Merovign on 3/30 @ 1:59 am #
Oh, look, it’s an Attention Thor.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/30 @ 2:27 am #
Up late watching your trust fund evaporate in Europe and Asia, thor?
Heh… it never fails. You come on here over the weekend jabbering about what a great time it is to buy stocks, or euros, or Iraqi dinar, or dental floss futures, and the market for whatever it is shits the bed the next business day.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/30 @ 2:39 am #
They don’t trade my muni bonds
(makes note to sell municipal bonds short)
Laughing at you, thor. Good night.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 4:47 am #
“Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 3:37 pm #
I moved, Slart.”
Mom kick you out of the basement, whore?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 4:50 am #
“Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 9:48 pm #
If your bullshit about CRA arm twisting the lending standards….”
You’re an idiot, whore.
And your Father is ashamed of you.
Comment by Rusty on 3/30 @ 5:04 am #
236
Then you should leave.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 5:04 am #
Market opens in a couple hours thor you going to start snatching up those GM stocks?
Comment by serr8d on 3/30 @ 5:38 am #
RE: 236 That cretin needs to find his teeth scattered all over the pavements.
A couple sessions with those results might tend to change his overall nassty demeanor. And improve his looks.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 5:48 am #
Are you so retarded that you forget what you type from one second to another, you were saying that GM stock would go up because of this. Put your money where your mouth is dipshit.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 5:50 am #
By the way WTF did anyone here ever do to you anyway?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 5:59 am #
This:
juxtaposed with this:
is high comedy, but of the laughing-at-you sort.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 6:07 am #
You know, I’ve seen that claim elsewhere on the innertubes. I’ve seen people even claim that Greenspan lowered the prime down to 1%, but I’m damned if I can find any evidence of that. Can you point me to the exact event, or sequence of events, that you’re talking about?
And assuming that you’re correct, here, was in intrinsically wrong for Greenspan to have lowered interest rates to get the economy restarted after 9/11 staggered it, or was doing that just an opportunity that AIG and others were waiting for? I don’t think what we’re going through right now was a result that Greenspan intended, do you?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 6:08 am #
“This thread is for grown ups”
Then leave, cocksucker.
And you Father is still ashamed of you.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 6:09 am #
A tear and a prayer for Mr. Wagoner, may he pull the rip-chord of his golden parachute and land ever so softly in his paid for mansion. He’s sacrificed so much. He, more than anyone, deserved so much more than the insult of a dollar a year in compensation.
Whattya know, thorazine is wrong about that one.
Wagoner, who had agreed to work for $1 a year, is barred from getting a golden parachute or a big severance package under the terms of the government’s Troubled Asset Recovery Program.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 6:10 am #
“Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/30 @ 12:42 am #
Has Thor ever been this communicative before?”
Only when he’s moaning while being fucked in the ass.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
What a mook.
What a loser.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 6:12 am #
“Whattya know, thorazine is wrong about that one.”
Could someone point out one time when whore was right?
Ever?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 6:20 am #
“Show me a post where you’ve posted anything half-way intelligent. C’mon, Pinky twirl, show me.”
I admit I am not the best poster on here but at least I was never retarded enough to say that GM stock would go up on 3/30/09. If it does I will gladly come back here and eat my words but something is telling me you will not when the shit goes below 1.50 by noon.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 6:34 am #
Interesting. The first entry I get is this. Second entry is this. Neither of those has a history of federal funds rate, and both of them say the problem wasn’t of Greenspan’s making.
Of course, one of them was written by Greenspan, so that one doesn’t count.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 6:35 am #
Yargh. Forgot to close the “a” tag.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 6:41 am #
What’s your fascination with gay sex anyway that you can not go one comment without throwing in a reference to it?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 6:43 am #
Here’s Wikipedia, though, with a history of the Federal Funds rate.
Oddly, it’s now zero. Maybe that’ll turn out to have been a mistake, five or six years down the pike.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 6:45 am #
Remember Tony Perkins’ character in Crimes of Passion? Something like that, maybe.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/30 @ 6:46 am #
If GM fails there’s a lot of United Autoworkers what are going to have to look in the mirror and say… ohnoes. I are useless with no skills or education and also I am fat and stupid with fat and stupid children what will just have to learn to eat tree bark.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 6:49 am #
I think your Google and mine must be wired up differently, thor.
Those Google bastards are probably logging all kinds of stuff and showing you just what you want to see (or what the government wants you to see, depending on what country you’re in).
That was kidding, in case it sounded overly psycho. Even if it didn’t.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 6:54 am #
If GM fails there’s a lot of United Autoworkers what are going to have to look in the mirror and say… ohnoes. I are useless with no skills or education and also I am fat and stupid with fat and stupid children what will just have to learn to eat tree bark.
If GM fails, there’s a lot of UAW workers that are going to have to think deep thoughts about their support of democrats. About the UAW leadership. About Jenny Granholms performance in bringing jobs to Michigan.
I hope they’re up to the challenge.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 7:04 am #
Why should anyone listen to the financial advice of someone who just said GM stock would go up today? I care more about my naval lint than your opinions on finance after that comment. Unlike you I will come back here and apologize if I am wrong but my bet is pretty safe that the stock will hit the shitter in about 15 minutes.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 7:05 am #
Depends on what the Feds ultimately decide to do. Wall St. does love it some free money.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 7:08 am #
Well, just wait, Mr. Pink, to see what happens to GM stocks after today’s 11 am press conference when Obama unveils his plan for the auto company.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 3/30 @ 7:12 am #
Dared not to worship The One. Dared to Question ‘hor’s “wisdom”.
The less impressed we are by the idiot, the bigger the tantrum ‘hor throws. Ignore him; he’s not worth the effort to flick a booger.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 7:18 am #
http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2009/03/30/so-much-for-tough-love-futures-sink-on-gm-news/
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 7:18 am #
We question his manifest genius. That is simply intolerable.
(sighs at the inevitable Tourette’s outburst that is supposed to impress or intimidate or something)
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 7:20 am #
It’s like a monkey flinging poo. All it does is distract him from rattling the bars too loudly and makes the 9 year olds laugh.
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 7:20 am #
Why did you ignore my 223, thor?
Too many rolled out the back door with millions but not before they burnt down the investment houses. It’s that simple, actually. Greed and no recourse of related consequences is what set Wall Street ablaze.
What we need is a policing agency, correct? A system of checks and balances? But how can you have that when the government is an active partner? Are you honestly trying to make the argument that the government isn’t greedy?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 7:21 am #
Well at least we will soon have a video of Joe Biden’s daughter doing blow and screaming how the lines are not big enough to entertain us during this new idiocy.
Comment by Abe Froman on 3/30 @ 7:23 am #
Thor’s at his most entertaining when he engages in tough guy talk. Its so very Hmong boy at the barber shop in Gran Torino.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 7:23 am #
#Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 6:30 am #
Your Father is ashamed of you, thor.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/30 @ 7:24 am #
I don’t think anyone’s arguing that Wagoner had any idea what he was doing. Them UAW thugs rolled him every time and also Wagoner made crappy cars. Pontiacs are uncommonly ugly cars. And the rest are blah. Even when they have a good car they put names like Chevrolet whatever or Buick whatever on them which are brands what don’t have any equity anymores to where you’re not all like hey check out my new Buick guys. No one ever says that. Maybe about trucks, sometimes I guess, but I am talking about cars. Which, the GM ones suck. Also when you get the car you have to wipe it down with those Clorox thingies before you let the kids ride in it cause fat greasy UAW thugs were touching all over it.
Also, Fords.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 7:28 am #
“With commodity prices collapsing and economic activity slowing we’re currently in a deflationary risk cycle and not a inflationary one”
You’re an ignorant slut, whore.
What happens when the Fed starts printing those trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars that O!bama needs to cover his incompetent, ignorant ass?
You’re about as knowledgeable as a slime mold on acid.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 7:30 am #
How Wagoner was doing is beside the point. The point is - who here believes that the government should be at the helm of the auto industry?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 7:32 am #
2.40 now thor.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 7:36 am #
GM falling like a stone.
On the upside, it doesn’t have very far to fall before it hits zero.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 7:38 am #
“I don’t believe you.
I’ll bet you one dollar GM’s stock goes up on Monday in response that idiot CEO getting punted.”
This should go down in history as one of the dumbest things ever uttered by a human being.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 7:38 am #
Of course, it could always shoot up through 4 by the end of the day. You just never know.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 7:39 am #
I’ll bet you one dollar GM’s stock goes up on Monday in response that idiot CEO getting punted.
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 4:24 pm
Well, there’s still 6 or some more hours in trading. Maybe Obama will promise enough free money to raise the stock back up at 11am. Who knows.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 7:39 am #
2.70 now
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 7:43 am #
It would suck to have to eat my words on this but I do not see it going back to 3.62. IMHO
Whatever I own CMTL stock.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 7:44 am #
Never underestimate the appeal of “free” money.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/30 @ 7:44 am #
I think it’s silly for Barack Obama to be thinking he all knows how to run something. He’s never run anything ever. Oh yeah except his campaign and he never did get to where he could even run that without lots and lots of help from the media cause of what a dweeby marxist goofball he is. If Barack Obama came out here to California and handed me the keys to a brand new Aveo I would laugh at his dweeby marxist goofball ass and be all like you are so joking and he would be like we all have to make sacrifices and I would be all like you really suck at this, you know that, right?
Comment by kasper on 3/30 @ 7:49 am #
Upon reflection, I apologize for my “unhelpful” interjections about Thor yesterday.
I do believe there is something serious going on with him. And not to be funny — but he needs to seek help.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 7:51 am #
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 7:39 am #
Your Father is ashamed of you, thor.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 7:52 am #
My half-guessed prediction is that auto stocks (at least GM) will rise slightly after the Administration’s Plan is formally announced. I mean, it’s not every day that a company planning on shedding 50,000 jobs and neglecting (Discarding??) half its brand portfolio qualifies for a 60-day operation funding “line of credit”. That’s like playing with house money.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 7:52 am #
Still down 28% from Friday. Only thing gonna save them is Obama promising to “make it rain on em” with our money at 11.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 7:53 am #
2.59
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 7:54 am #
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 7:39 am #
You’re not good enough, man enough, to lick the mud from your Father’s combat boots.
Or the sand from my son’s.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 7:55 am #
Source for those figures:
[GM and Chrysler employ about 140,000 workers in the U.S. In February, GM said it intended to cut 47,000 jobs around the globe, or almost 20 percent of its work force, close hundreds of dealerships and focus on four core brands -- Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick.]
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/White-House-questions-apf-14780786.html
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 7:55 am #
2.74
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 7:56 am #
Goodbye Saab, Pontiac, Saturn and Hummer?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 8:02 am #
Like I said in #181, I’ll be getting back into the market once Timmy and Barry’s hands have been removed from its daily workings. These incompetent bumblers shouldn’t be allowed to run a lemonade stand.
Hope you went long on GM, Thor.
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:07 am #
For the apocolypse that Barry envisions, you would do well to stock up on the big gear ie. SUV’s, Trucks. Didn’t see many hybrids parked at Thunderdome.
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:10 am #
It will be called “The Barackolypse”
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 8:11 am #
Got a ring to it.
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:14 am #
It needs to happen fast, so that we can get to the business of cleaning up after this “teen-party-while-the-parents-are-out-of-town”
It’s like Weird Science, only not funny.
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:16 am #
The Barackolypse, that is.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/30 @ 8:16 am #
Barack Obama hasn’t even started demolishing the stock market yet I don’t think. That’s what Cap n Trade is for.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 8:18 am #
Baracky could have forced them into bankruptcy by not pumping $25 billion into them. Now little Barry is the effective CEO. Think he’ll be eager to see his faithful UAW boys slip ‘neath the waves, Thor?
Down 0.92, about 25%. Good call on that surge, bright boy.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 8:20 am #
I wonder how much of the new GM bailout money will be donated to Dem campaigns in the next election? Probably quite a bit.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 8:21 am #
Compare
[Wittle Pinky Wiggles thinks it’s all to do with his big rudder hero, Wagoner, or some such stupidity.]
with last evening
[I’ll bet you one dollar GM’s stock goes up on Monday in response that idiot CEO getting punted. ]
Super-genius.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 8:21 am #
Also, the threat of bankruptcy screams “Buy! Buy!”, I reckon.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 8:22 am #
The market knows we got us a Baracky in the woodpile now.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 8:24 am #
AIG is not even a penny stock anymore. I wish I’d bought at 35 cents.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 8:24 am #
[I don’t own GM. I don’t own AIG. ]
Why not, they’re in your side’s highly capable hands now. Are you doubting the efficacy of the Obama Administration in turning around failing(-ed) companies?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 8:25 am #
Obama is the CEO now moron.
“GM chairman Rick Wagoner became the most conspicuous casualty of that decision, forced out Sunday as the White House indicated Detroit must make management and other changes if it hopes to survive — and that the Obama administration will have a hands-on role in those changes.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obama_autos
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 8:27 am #
If you can fire the CEO, you’re the effective CEO (or you’ve just made the Board superfluous). Like the Pope crowning the Holy Roman Emperor, it shows who’s really in charge. GM is a ward of the state, and Chairman Obamao is its leader. He owns GM’s fate now.
You don’t have an equity stake in GM, bright boy, but you’re a bond holder by way of Uncle Sap.
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:29 am #
I think Ron Fiddlefaddle should be the new CEO. And if he can’t get the stock back up to $70, he should be beaten up by some non-union thugs.
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 8:33 am #
Why did you ignore my 223 and 274, thor?
I thought you wanted an adult conversation.
Too many rolled out the back door with millions but not before they burnt down the investment houses. It’s that simple, actually. Greed and no recourse of related consequences is what set Wall Street ablaze.
What we need is a policing agency, correct? A system of checks and balances? But how can you have that when the government is an active partner? Are you honestly trying to make the argument that the government isn’t greedy?
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:35 am #
C’mon thor, it’s not the Bush collapse. It’s the Frank Raines collapse. You know how I know? Barackolypse is holding Raines’ bonus along with the rest of the Fannie Gang. You know, because they misrepresented the strength of their company in order to get those bonuses.
Oh, and Raines also misrepresented the risk involved with his mortgages as investments. Oh and Maxine and Barney also kept touting the “Poor shifless people need to be homeowners too” policy which tore the housing market a new asshole. Bush warned against it, yet the Black Caucus could not be bothered to look into Raines’ cheating.
So, really, it’s a black thing.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 8:36 am #
We’ll certainly see how GM performs after Obama hand picks a stooge to fill Wagoner’s spot, won’t we thor?
I forget…what charge is Wagoner up on?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 8:36 am #
BMoe you haven’t heard this one before? It is only greedy when it is run by Republicans.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 8:37 am #
“Are you honestly trying to make the argument that the government isn’t greedy?”
whore doesn’t make arguments, he reaches into his diaper and starts flinging poo.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/30 @ 8:38 am #
With all the gay regulations plus how Barack Obama thinks he can run the company better than people what have actually run a business before, what we have is a state-run car company what makes vehicles per Nancy and Harry’s diktat. It’s fucking communism. I won’t drive a fucking commiemobile.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/30 @ 8:39 am #
I’d rather drive a fucking Isuzu.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 8:42 am #
So, really, it’s a black thing.
Too nig to fail?
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:43 am #
I’d rather drive a fucking Isuzu.
That’s the one with the huge back seat, right?
Comment by Joe Isuzu on 3/30 @ 8:43 am #
I used my new Isuzu pickup truck to carry a 2,000 pound cheeseburger. If I’m lying, may lightning hit my mother. Good luck, Mom!
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 8:43 am #
I’d rather drive a fucking Isuzu.
Calm down now, ‘feets, let’s not do anything drastic.
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:44 am #
No comment Jeffersonian. A giggle, but no comment.
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:51 am #
But it’s important “yesterday” thor. Who was it that said, “If we fail to remember what bad things happened in the yesterdays, we are doomed to do them again at some point.”?
The quote was not in that kind of flowery language though.
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 8:59 am #
I could hedge with NASDAQ:AHII
Comment by Wm T Sherman on 3/30 @ 8:59 am #
GM dropped 25%. Is that considered a large negative change?
Comment by alppuccino on 3/30 @ 9:01 am #
Renters should rent. Buyers should buy. And never the twain should meet.
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:02 am #
You’re asking the guy who outwits opponents on the chessboard by moving stuff around they never see, al. That way he’s there before they are every time.
Climbs right into their heads, that thor.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 9:03 am #
[One, the president will announce a new government-backed warranty program for all new GM and Chrysler vehicles purchased during this restructuring period. A fund will be set up equal to 125 percent of the total cost to pay for warranty service. The auto makers will contribute 15 percent while the government will provide 110 percent, with the money coming from the economic stabilization funds, the gift that keeps on giving. A separate company will hold the funds and pay the claims even if one of the auto manufacturers goes into bankruptcy or out of business.]
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/03/president-ob-23.html
Sort of an FDIC for auto warranties?
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 9:05 am #
What if FNMA and FHLMC were under capitalized and never designed to withstand a 50% move downward move in real estate prices?
What if FNMA and FHLMC had never existed?
What is you answer my other questions?
Too many rolled out the back door with millions but not before they burnt down the investment houses. It’s that simple, actually. Greed and no recourse of related consequences is what set Wall Street ablaze.
What we need is a policing agency, correct? A system of checks and balances? But how can you have that when the government is an active partner? Are you honestly trying to make the argument that the government isn’t greedy?
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:05 am #
Smart stuff that, thor. And given your mindbending powers as financial historian, you’ll pick up on the problem with money momentarily.
You read a lot. I can tell.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 9:05 am #
flatlining around 2.71. I’m sure it would have been a lot lower had Obama not fired the CEO, though.
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:10 am #
He’s speaking in terms of tripling the nat debt, thorenstein.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 9:10 am #
Thor when he is speaking shouldn’t you be on your knees?
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 9:10 am #
OH goody. ‘Bama’s talking now. THIS ISN’T THE FAULT OF THE WORKERS. It’s leadership folks.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 9:11 am #
Thor has retreated into industry-speak and jargon, his premise having blown up in his face.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 9:11 am #
Careful analysis, folks.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 9:12 am #
Sounds like the telepromter messed up for a second there.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 9:12 am #
I think it’s just incredibly smart of Obama to springboard off of Bush’s financial performance like that. Outdoing six years of war in the Middle East with maybe eighteen months of stimulus spending…wow. Just, wow. The man’s a genius.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 9:13 am #
FUEL EFFICIENT CARS AND TRUCKS that will lead us to energy independent future.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 9:14 am #
“Fuel Efficient Truck” borders on an oxymoron.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 9:14 am #
Oh now I get it, he is nationalizing the auto industry for Giai, not to make money. Oh this will turn out good. Maybe they can put a Captain Planet logo on the cars now.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 9:15 am #
It’s Billy Mays with a tan and no sales talent.
Comment by Abe Froman on 3/30 @ 9:17 am #
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 9:06 pm
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 10:00 pm
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/29 @ 10:57 pm
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 2:21 am
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 2:56 am
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 5:00 am
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 6:08 am
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 7:10 am
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 8:14 am
Comment by treasury secretary thor on 3/30 @ 9:08 am
`
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 9:17 am #
Oh great. He come the “measures.”
1) Wagoner goes. New vision, you see.
2) Working capitol for 60 days for firing Wagoner.
(let me be clear)
Chrysler
1) Needs a partner. You must accept Fiat.
2) Fiat will take majority ownership stake of Chryster?!?
3) 30 days to figure it out.
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:18 am #
To hear thor tell it, money doesn’t grow on trees.
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 9:18 am #
Second “let me be clear”
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:19 am #
So, who painted the $100 bill?
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 9:19 am #
Buy American, er………..Italian!
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 9:19 am #
Bankruptcy to get away from old debts. Owed to whom? Suppliers?
Comment by Freedom Carin on 3/30 @ 9:21 am #
OH NOS, that’s a horrible idea. People are going to buy wrecks in junk yards, turn ‘em in.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 9:22 am #
I really wanted that new Camaro too.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 9:23 am #
364
Old debts=worker’s, past and present, healthcare
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 9:23 am #
No, here’s where money grows.
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 9:25 am #
Chrysler swapped partners from Daimler Benz to Fiat? This is progress?
Why won’t you play with me any more, thor?
What if FNMA and FHLMC were under capitalized and never designed to withstand a 50% move downward move in real estate prices?
What if FNMA and FHLMC had never existed?
What is you answer my other questions?
Too many rolled out the back door with millions but not before they burnt down the investment houses. It’s that simple, actually. Greed and no recourse of related consequences is what set Wall Street ablaze.
What we need is a policing agency, correct? A system of checks and balances? But how can you have that when the government is an active partner? Are you honestly trying to make the argument that the government isn’t greedy?
Answer these and then we can get into the ethical problems with corporate income tax.
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 9:31 am #
Is thor a fool? Yes.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 9:33 am #
Is the government greedy? No.
Ahahahahahahaha!!!
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:34 am #
Second time, thorenstain: O! is tripling the national debt and he’s doing it by way of thinly veiled socialist collectivism.
You aimless little man. And you too, thor.
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:35 am #
Where does money come from, thor? Not your daddy’s, ours.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 9:37 am #
Well 53 more cents to go and I have to eat my words. Still down 14%.
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:38 am #
There you go with that freedom of market choice again, Pink.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 9:39 am #
You know what I heard that it would take Obama until 2010 to actually own the economy and not be able to blame Bush for it I had no freakin idea they actually ment he would OWN the economy.
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 9:46 am #
Who is greedier, thor, the corner merchant or the mob boss collecting shake-down money from him?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 9:47 am #
So how much GM stock did you buy last night on your Etrade account, Thor? Or was you “skeeeered?”
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 9:48 am #
380
Back down .84 cents now.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/30 @ 9:49 am #
I’ll bet you one dollar GM’s stock goes up on Monday in response that idiot CEO getting punted
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
And yeah, thor, I teach people for a living. I do it because I love it, it’s honest work, and I’m damned good at it.
We can’t all be superior creatures like you, living by sponging off our parents, now, can we?
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:51 am #
thor evades the Q. Shocka. Where does money come from, thor? How about that $100,000,000,000,000 national debt and unpaid obligations thingie your boy is working on, thor?
You can stop bein’ my bitch if you just have one honest thought, bitch.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/30 @ 9:52 am #
So, how much of your trust fund did you lose today, thor?
Oh, I forget. It’s always in whatever investment instrument isn’t tanking at the moment. Funny that.
Today it’s in “municipal bonds”. Yeah, those are going to be awesome after Barky’s double-digit inflation hits later this year.
I repeat: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:55 am #
What’s one hundred trillion dollars in debt, not including the five hundred billion in annual interest, factored over three hundred million souls, thorenstain, with maybe a third of them actually making a wage and of them, a small minority makin big thor-bucks?
It’s an O-saster in the making, thor.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 9:55 am #
We’re being turned into Argentina.
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 9:56 am #
Where’s money come from, mythoropia? There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Comment by Carin on 3/30 @ 10:00 am #
Who is Ed Montgomery?
:Ed Montgomery: Becomes director of recovery for autoworkers and communities and will play a big role with the management of the government’s automotive recovery program.
In his new role, Montgomery will bring all parties — workers, firms, unions, other private-sector employers, community-based organizations, state and local governments, and foundations — to the table to oversee communication and cooperation.
Montgomery, who has been a member of the auto task force, also is the acting deputy secretary and senior adviser to the secretary at the U.S. Department of Labor. He is on leave from the Department of Economics at the University of Maryland.
He was part of the negotiating team for Kyoto.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 10:02 am #
We’re forgetting one important fact here. Thor lives in Florida.
End of discussion.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/30 @ 10:03 am #
And he can see the ocean from his house.
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 10:07 am #
Over the cubic acre of Benjamins, Spies.
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 10:07 am #
Where’s money come from, mythoropia?
Where does everything good come from, J? The Government!
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 10:08 am #
That we, but not him, owe our masters.
Comment by JHoward on 3/30 @ 10:08 am #
Government. Almost like God except for the last eight letters, B Moe.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 10:10 am #
Cocaine’s a hell of a drug, Abe. (way back up the thread)
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 10:34 am #
Ah, so you’ve read Papillon?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 10:41 am #
Who is Ed Montgomery?
What, was Paul Ehrlich unavailable?
Comment by Pablo on 3/30 @ 10:52 am #
Well, you also have to pay attention. Thinking two moves ahead, I’d offer him $.24/hour to take out my garbage, thus doubling his current salary. It would be a smoking deal, because of the footspeed.
Hey, I see that GM stock is still down 20% on the day. Thinking another two moves ahead, I’d really like your investment advice, thor.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 10:59 am #
Thor after hearing your advice on GM stock I think it’s best if you find a new line of work. Also your opinion on the stock market is about as worthless as 99% of your comments. Give or take a percentage point.
Comment by SDN on 3/30 @ 11:13 am #
FTFY. But you just keep talking. Sooner or later, you’ll slip up and put out enough info to locate you exactly.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 11:46 am #
Oh I’d say 99% of your posts are all the same butt sore squeal, actually. You got your bloody ass kicked in the last election and now you need a place on the intertubes to cry and squeal, over and over and over you welp.
Is that supposed to be an argument?
Comment by SDN on 3/30 @ 1:16 pm #
Just give me a landing zone, buttmunch.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 1:24 pm #
“You got your bloody ass kicked in the last election and now you need a place on the intertubes to cry and squeal, over and over and over you welp.”
So I was on the ballot in the last election? Tool.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 1:25 pm #
Yes my ass was handed to me in the last election. I was running for dog catcher in Peoria and I lost to Mary Carey’s old breast implants. Damn I suck at life.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 2:05 pm #
Nobody laughed at my Papillon comment. I’m…wounded.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 3/30 @ 2:19 pm #
Annnnnnnnddd…2.70 close. That there’s some progress.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 2:27 pm #
Yes 25% down for the day. I am not going to hold my breathe for thor to admit he is wrong.
Thor’s Financial Advice=Epic Fuckin Failure
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 3:00 pm #
Anybody else note the irony of thor condemning greed while at the same time judging others by their ability to accumulate material wealth?
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/30 @ 3:12 pm #
Down another 2% in after-hours trading.
Heh. That thor… Jakob Fugger, J.P. Morgan, and John D. Rockefeller all rolled into one, he is.
Comment by Dave in SoCal on 3/30 @ 3:13 pm #
Love this comment from Lileks:
“Maybe I’m old-school, but “President fires CEO†looks as wrong as “Pope fires Missile.†Does not compute.”
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/30 @ 3:21 pm #
FoMoCo is only down about 1% for the day, much better than the Dow as a whole (-3% or so).
Guess that shows what a wonderful idea taking Barky’s “bailout” money is, huh?
You’ll get fired, reviled, and have your salary stolen from you.
Then your company will be destroyed anyway.
Even if Barky manages to get another round of bailouts through Congress, I don’t think CEOs will be lining up to take them.
Would you?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 3/30 @ 3:23 pm #
“Is the government greedy? No.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
Oh, what a fucking moroon.
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 3:54 pm #
I gotta believe the merger with Fiat is hurting as much or more as the fired CEO. Do you know how long it has been since a new Fiat was sold in the US?
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 3/30 @ 3:57 pm #
I’m trying to remember the last time I even saw a Fiat.
Comment by happyfeet on 3/30 @ 3:57 pm #
it’ll include Alfas. Not a big deal but they’re better than Fiats I imagine.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 3/30 @ 4:00 pm #
GM stock sure did good today!!!!11!!!!!
Comment by Jeffersonian on 3/30 @ 4:28 pm #
I didn’t advise you to buy GM.
No, you just said it was going to rise after Teleprompter Jesus sacked the head guy. Instead, it was down 25%.
Great call, Mellon.
Comment by Techie on 3/30 @ 4:45 pm #
There has got to be a way to archive this epic fail for posterity.
Comment by Randy on 3/30 @ 6:54 pm #
I’ve been lurking here 6 or 7 years, back before the promise of the armadillo. Thor is a relatively new troll. He contributes something meaningful about once a month. Why is he tolerated? And a preemptive “Fuck you, Thor.”
Comment by Jeff G. on 3/30 @ 7:45 pm #
He’s been banned. Doesn’t much stop him.
Comment by guinsPen on 3/30 @ 8:18 pm #
Comment by SDN on 3/30 @ 8:34 pm #
I notice that buttmunch isn’t giving me the landing zone he swears he’ll mess me up on. Hmmmm. Chickenshit.
Comment by B Moe on 3/30 @ 9:42 pm #
Pussies out and hides when you ask him hard questions, too. Chickenshit indeed.
Comment by Merovign on 3/30 @ 11:36 pm #
I return at this late date to simply point out to the degraded ignoramus in question that I was talking about him, not to him.
I don’t much care what he has or had to say in response, because it’s rarely relevant and never coherent.
Though it does seem that the new medication has perked him up a bit, with perhaps one or two unpleasant side effects.
Comment by Rusty on 3/31 @ 5:17 am #
#424
You sound like an expert in these matters.
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