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December 30, 2008
“The object of war …” [Darleen Click]
“… is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.†General George S. Patton BEIRUT, Lebanon – Lebanon’s powerful Hezbollah guerrilla  widely seen as the Arab world’s most effective force against Israel  has vowed to support Palestinian ally Hamas under the barrage of Israeli warplanes but has for now held its fire, constrained by its own political goals and fears of mass retaliation. 126 Comments ::: Post a comment »RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI: http://proteinwisdom.com/wp-trackback.php?p=14013 Leave a commentIf you want to leave a feedback to this post or to some other user´s comment, simply fill out the form below. |
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Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/30 @ 9:01 am #
Nice.
Comment by alppuccino on 12/30 @ 9:05 am #
I don’t think Yahoo! News thinks very highly of their readership. When I clicked, I was greeted by a skinny-necked Oprah shilling her “Berry Diet – see how celebrities are losing weight fast!” If I’m not mistaken, Oprah is putting on weight faster than Chris Matthews’ wienie during an Obama speech.
Too OT?
Comment by Pablo on 12/30 @ 9:37 am #
Wow. Sanity at HuffPo.
Iraqi Parliamentarian to His People: “It’s Not Between Palestinians and Israelis, it’s Between Terrorists and Moderates”
It should be interesting to watch the comments develop on that one.
Comment by Bob Reed on 12/30 @ 9:45 am #
Funny how that whole “disproportionate response” thing gives an enemy pause to think about it before recklessly attacking…
It’d be a shame if they showed restraint for too long though; ‘cuz I can’t think of a better way to kick off the new year than having Hizbullah’s weapons caches destroyed and a whole lot of their “freedom fighters” greased in the process…
Heck, Lebanon might actually regain control of their government of enough of those maggots went to be with Allah…
Comment by mojo on 12/30 @ 9:52 am #
Sure, guys, go ahead, move south. I’m sure the boys back in Beiruit won’t stick a knife in your backs or anything…
Comment by Salt Lick on 12/30 @ 9:53 am #
a skinny-necked Oprah shilling her “Berry Diet
I guess it is a little OT, al, but you put me in mind of the photoshopping Parade Magazine did on their recent Palin cover.
Comment by geoffb on 12/30 @ 10:19 am #
“Parade”, the magazine no one actually buys but comes as an insert when you buy the Sunday fish-wrap to get the sale fliers all in one bunch. “The Star” and the “National Enquirer” are in a higher paygrade.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 10:27 am #
Blogger Sandmonkey reports Gaza doings from an (admittedly philoAmerican) Egyptian’s pov, says Egypt is catching a bit of hell across the Arab world for not fully backing the Hamas creeps. His current lead post:
Scrolling further down we find:
Heh. Palis, can’t live with ‘em, can’t live without ‘em.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 10:30 am #
Related JPost article.
Comment by Benedick on 12/30 @ 10:32 am #
I have an artistic vision for an Esther Williams-style musical number where a few hundred Hezbollah “militants” dressed in suicide vests dance in a huge, open field, singing about all of the wonderful rewards that await martyrs in Heaven; as the song reaches its crescendo, the camera begins to pull up into the sky, revealing the dancing jihadis to be in formation, marching-band style, spelling out, “Allu Akbar” — though in Arabic, of course — and then in the final seconds of the number, the jihadis begin pressing their detonators in succession, so that the words they’ve formed light up like neon, visually accentuating the song’s final drumroll as each man explodes with a little pink *PFF*
Comment by daleyrocks on 12/30 @ 10:55 am #
I question the timing. It’s very convenient for Obama that this whole kerfuffle popped up in the midst of the Gov. Whatshisname scandal. We’ll never know how much money the Palis actually contributed to Baracky’s campaign, will we?
Comment by Andrew Sullivan on 12/30 @ 10:59 am #
“Sure, guys, go ahead, move south. I’m sure the boys back in Beiruit won’t stick a knife in your backs or anything…”
Yes, I’m sure Israeli Generals have never taken the MS100 class. Or MS101. Or MS200. Or MS210.
{Military Science}
Unless asking a question, please refrain from posting until after graduating from grade school.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 11:02 am #
Sorry, sockpuppeted AS in the Palin post and forgot to change the default when posting the above comment…
“Sure, guys, go ahead, move south. I’m sure the boys back in Beiruit won’t stick a knife in your backs or anything…â€Â
Yes, I’m sure Israeli Generals have never taken the MS100 class. Or MS101. Or MS200. Or MS210.
{Military Science}
Unless asking a question, please refrain from posting until after graduating from grade school.
Comment by rickinstl on 12/30 @ 11:13 am #
Lt,
Unless I’m mistaken, the “guys” “moving south” referrenced above are Hezbollah.
The IDF would be moving north to get to Lebanon, wouldn’t they?
Comment by mojo on 12/30 @ 11:27 am #
Evidently, they didn’t cover “map reading” or “sarcasm” in OCS, huh ell-tee?
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 11:29 am #
I read the comment as a sarcastic one towards Israeli leadership, and my response was sarcasm.
To paraphrase what I thought mojo wrote, “Yeah, Israel, go ahead and move south into Gaza; Hezbollah won’t stick a knife in your back from the North from Beirut.”
Hence my comment…
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 11:36 am #
I think he meant if Hezballah moves south into Israel, Beirut will stick a knife in their back. Hezballah isn’t real popular with the Lebanese, as I understand it.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 11:37 am #
If Hezbollah, which occupies and controls Beirut [and it's Beirut, not "Beiruit", again, graduate grade school, please] moves south, who would stick it in the back from Beirut? The comment makes no strategic or logical sense.
Comment by mojo on 12/30 @ 11:37 am #
BTW:
“If the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seekingâ€Â
- William Tecumseh Sherman
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 11:38 am #
From what I’ve heard, I don’t think the Lebanese have much “sticking” power left. They’ve been neutered by Hez.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 11:39 am #
it’s Beirut, not “Beiruit”, again, graduate grade school, please
I got a better idea, how about you go fuck yourself, please?
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 11:41 am #
Confederate Yankee notes a disturbing albeit unsurprising act at YouTube viz IDF posted video. I’ve the feeling we’ve seen this before.
The Israelis not only have to fight the Hamasikazis on the ground, they have to fight the Hamazikazi’s propaganda backers at Google, CNN, MSNBC, BBC etc as well. Just as the US has had to do the last six years in the fight with Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 11:47 am #
Bingo on the Sherman comment…
Q: Is mojo normally a troll? Perhaps I’m mistaken…
Re this: “Hezbollah also has to reckon with Lebanese army and a more robust U.N. peacekeeping force in the south near the border with Israel. Since 2006, thousands of Lebanese troops have deployed along with 13,000 U.N. peacekeepers in a border zone.”
From what I hear from my “peeps,” this is an extremely poorly equipped, led, motivated and organized force.
And, as we all know, without the U.S., the U.N. is utterly impotent.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 11:52 am #
Whoa BMoe, just what it reads on the map…thought I was dealing with a troll…sarcasm not allowed for trolls?
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 11:58 am #
Lt York, why not just take “Beiruit” as an ordinary typo rather than as a sign of lack of learning? It just seems like you’ve jumped the gun there, is what B Moe’s indicating, is all.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 11:59 am #
First off, mojo is hardly a troll, he has been a regular here longer than I have, secondly, I misspelled it also, and took a bit of offense at being labeled a grade-schooler.
Lastly, my understanding is Hezballah is considered an unwelcome occupier by a great deal of the Lebanese, and while their army and the UN are on the weak side, if the Hezzies overexpose their flank while pissing the Israeli’s off, it may not take a large or organized force to cause them problems back there.
Comment by MAJ (P) John on 12/30 @ 12:07 pm #
Cease fire guys.
#26 says all that needs to be said.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 12:18 pm #
Sdferr
“why not just take “Beiruit†as an ordinary typo”
Hammering what I thought was a troll…
BMoe,
I don’t quite type as fast as I’d like, and I hadn’t seen your comment when typed my response to the other comment. Additionally, post #17 shows you spelled it correctly…definitely not hacking you.
This was all a misunderstanding, and I apologize if I gave offense. I still haven’t learned everyone around here, and mistook mojo’s comment, and thought he was a troll.
I will still argue that the threat from a disorganized military is no real threat to anyone paying attention across the line.
And I will continue to argue the the U.N. is impotent. Hell, with the way the political winds shift all the time, without the U.S. veto on the Sec. Council, the U.N. troops stand just as good a chance being used against Israel as in defense of her.
However, not recognizing mojo, and knowing something about the situation on the ground there led me to misinterpret his comment, and that was my fault. Sorry.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 12:23 pm #
See, it took me 11 minutes to correctly type, spell check and format the above post. I didn’t see the Majors comment…see how slow I type?
Again, apologies to everyone…
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 12:34 pm #
Two years ago I said that Israel’s “war” with Hezbollah did what they wanted it to do, think of it as “FrnakJ’s Nuke the Moon” stragety. The quote you highlighted showed that someone on the other side figured it out.
You don’t mess with the crazy dude who might snap and kill you all.
I will still argue that the threat from a disorganized military is no real threat to anyone paying attention across the line.
I’m gonna have to disagree with you there, you can pay attention all you want but it’s very difficult to defend against an attacker who’s prepared (and eager) to die. I’ll point to Iraq as an example and the thousands dead who were, presumably, paying attention.
The jihadis aren’t very organized, they aren’t well led but they have all the balls you need and none of the brains.
That makes them dangerous, very dangerous.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 12:42 pm #
For those of you who care to discuss the object [or objectives] of this particular war, meaning the current Israeli strikes on Gaza (if war it is, rather than, say, just one action among many in an ongoing decades long war of low intensity) what do you think them to be, exactly? I still can’t make out clearly where the Israeli govn’t means to go, what their end game is for this action, in other words. They’ve issued numerous statements quite at odds with one another in the last few days. Trying to read the facts as I gather them doesn’t lead to a clear outcome either. What think you?
Comment by mojo on 12/30 @ 12:42 pm #
I’m not a troll, I’m a Gremlin.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 12:45 pm #
I almost bought a Gremlin once, mojo, but thought better of it and acquired an old Volvo instead.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 12:45 pm #
A “disorganized” military by definition is un”prepared” to engage in large scale operations.
We’re not talking insurgency here, we’re talking about a large movement of troops south to “knife” Hez.
A “disorganized” force is un”prepared” to do that. Doesn’t mean that they couldn’t be in the future, but they are not now.
Or, as one of my old commanders used to say, with emphasis: “The situation as it stands NOW…”
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 12:47 pm #
Poor wingnuts, it hasn’t been a good decade for mindless violence, has it?
To bring up Israel’s losing effort against Hezbollah smacks of desperation.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 12:49 pm #
“Trying to read the facts as I gather them doesn’t lead to a clear outcome either. What think you?”
Gotta agree…they haven’t really outlined strategic objectives, except fairly nebulous ones that are easy to hedge.
“Breaking the will of the enemy”…hard to see how this gets accomplished, at least in anything other than the short term.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 12:50 pm #
However, not recognizing mojo, and knowing something about the situation on the ground there led me to misinterpret his comment, and that was my fault. Sorry.
No problem, sorry I snapped at you.
The thing you must remember is Hezballah is an Iranian proxy army, they depend on Iran for arms, supplies, and reinforcements. A prolonged engagement with Israel will eventually deplete their supplies, and even if the Lebanese and the UN don’t have the wherewithal to actively engage their flank, it wouldn’t be hard at all for the Lebanese to severely fuck up their supply lines.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 12:52 pm #
To bring up Israel’s losing effort against Hezbollah smacks of desperation.
What does cheering for a bunch of evil savages smack of?
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 12:54 pm #
Gremlin?
My Aunt Betty was a well-to-do lady in Little Rock.
When the Pacer came out, she loved it and had to have one.
When it was delivered, she [I kid you not} brought in an interior decorator to choose curtains for those big back windows.
God’s honest truth!
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 12:54 pm #
Plus, on that side (Iranian) of the ledger, B Moe, we can count (or rather, subtract) diminishing oil revenues and the inevitable pinch of their own people’s discontent.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 1:00 pm #
“it wouldn’t be hard at all for the Lebanese to severely fuck up their supply lines.”
True, however, if Hez. has thought beyond 5:30, they should be smart enough [ok, that's giving them something] to secure their supply lines through the Syrians.
I still think if Hez. came South, by far, it’s biggest problem would be Israel. I’m sure Israel has worked to secure it’s back door. Too much risk from both Syria and Hez.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 1:02 pm #
Not “cheering” B Moe, just stating a fact.
And now Israel has stepped into the exact same pile of shit again.
They ran out of legitimate military targets in Gaza days ago.
The rockets are still coming.
What now?
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 1:09 pm #
For those of you who care to discuss the object [or objectives] of this particular war, meaning the current Israeli strikes on Gaza
I think it’s just to make terrorism painful.
What can Israel do? They’ve tried giving up land for peace (and got more war), they offered almost all that the Palestinians claim they want (in 2000) and got a second intifada for their troubles, they tried to legitimize Palestinian terror organizations by putting them into a gov’t and got more war, hate and rockets. They’ve tried too many “Oslos” to count and all they got was more hate and more war.
At this point, they just want the missiles to stop. They can do that by reoccupying Gaza and keeping a large force in place to pacify it, building a really, really high wall (on the order of 5 miles high), kill all Palestinians, relocate all Palestinians to farther than missile range from Israel or….. just start maniacally lashing out at every provocation.
If you “negotiate” with jihadis you are admitting weakness (in their minds, they only negotiate out of weakness, think “hudna”).
Nope, they need to make the jihadis afraid of Israel, they need the jihadis to understand that attacking Israel is suicide, futile suicide as you don’t get your virgins after failing to kill to Jews.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 1:14 pm #
“they need to make the jihadis afraid of Israel, they need the jihadis to understand that attacking Israel is suicide”
Breaking their will…
“you don’t get your virgins after failing to kill to Jews.”
Is this true? I thought it was infidels…
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 1:18 pm #
Although in Gaza, it’s likely the Jews sending those folks to Allah…
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 1:24 pm #
Given the lede of this freshly posted JPost article “Israeli leaders to discuss suspending Gaza op for 48 hours”, perhaps the Israelis have already achieved their aims. It seems dissonant on its face to me though.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 1:24 pm #
They ran out of legitimate military targets in Gaza days ago.
The rockets are still coming.
Then they need to attack the illegitimate military targets.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 1:24 pm #
Funny Veeshir,
The US and Israel did everything they could to undermine Hamas’ government after they fairly won the election we pushed for.
And now of course, the bombs.
How is Olmert still running Israel, BTW?
Is a moron like him the best they got these days?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/30 @ 1:32 pm #
“The US and Israel did everything they could to undermine Hamas’ government after they fairly won the election we pushed for.”
You must smoke crack.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 1:32 pm #
I had sort of thought Hamas had done their own best to undermine their govrn’t by arresting and executing Fatah members, throwing them off buildings and shooting them in the streets, driving them to seek shelter in Israel, of all places. They didn’t need the help of the US and Israel for that.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/30 @ 1:33 pm #
They elected a terrorist regime and you say it is our fault they continue to act like terrorist? The people obviously want them to act like they are acting you dumbass.
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 1:34 pm #
Is a moron like him the best they got these days?
Oh yeah, well it takes one to know one!
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 1:35 pm #
Personally, I think my response was the best one.
You can’t reason with a person who does not use reason.
Call that “Veeshir’s Law”.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/30 @ 1:37 pm #
So basically what you are suggesting is that Iran could elect Jeffrey Dalmer as it’s Supreme leader, and if we tried to stop acts of cannibalism then it would be our fault if he declared war on a neighboring country in order to eat the bodies. I bet you can count the number of braincells you possess on one hand.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 1:40 pm #
The US and Israel did everything they could to undermine Hamas’ government after they fairly won the election we pushed for.
They elected a terrorist regime and you say it is our fault they continue to act like terrorist? The people obviously want them to act like they are acting you dumbass.
Tuberheads own argument kind of makes it hard to protray anyone as innocent over there, huh?
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 1:40 pm #
Oh, and to add what I ought to have earlier, I think Hamas is getting some payback from Fatah for those outrages, in that this series of Israeli strikes may well be largely based on intel from Fatah on the location of weapons stores and prepared fighting positions etc. There may even be a few informal quid-pro-quos just beneath the surface we see, the fulfillment of which could, to some extent, drive Israeli decision making in the days ahead.
Comment by Ric Locke on 12/30 @ 1:40 pm #
Oh, to the contrary, it’s been a excellent year for mindless violence. Hamas has killed themselves some Jews, and gotten you and yours to agree that there’s nothing that can be done about it and they get to continue, which is what they want. You may continue to congratulate the success of mindless violence, as you have been doing.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/30 @ 1:43 pm #
This also means Cuba could elect the Sudanese pirate company as it’s leader after Castro goes. If we try to stop pirating off the Florida coast then parsnip will damn us to hell for instigating violence.
Has anyone else in here just been amazed by stupidity?
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 1:44 pm #
It is simply not interesting in the main, Mr. Pink. Sorry.
Comment by Pablo on 12/30 @ 1:45 pm #
Note that Hamas has instituted a policy of crucifixion for “traitors”. That’s likely related.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 1:45 pm #
The US and Israel did everything they could to undermine Hamas’ government after they fairly won the election we pushed for.
And now of course, the bombs.
You left something out, let me correct it for you: “The US and Israel did everything they could to undermine Hamas’ government after they fairly won the election we pushed for.”
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Vicious, racist, vile propaganda calling for the destruction for Israel spewed forth.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Vicious, racist, vile propaganda calling for the destruction for Israel spewed forth.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Vicious, racist, vile propaganda calling for the destruction for Israel spewed forth.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Rockets.
Vicious, racist, vile propaganda calling for the destruction for Israel spewed forth.
Hamas ends the cease fire.
And now of course, the bombs.
FIFY
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 1:46 pm #
I’d heard about the crucifixion thing but not the for traitors bit, so thanks, Pablo.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 1:47 pm #
It’s true, Israel has undermined their allies fatah with this latest tantrum.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 1:47 pm #
Fatah may be preparing an uprising, looks like.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/30/injured-palestinian-girl-hamas-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 1:49 pm #
It does seem to me that the population of Gaza is a captive and semi-enslaved one with the oddity being that their captors and enslavers happen to be Hamas. Unanticipated consequences can often prove to be ironical, can’t they?
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 1:50 pm #
Someone helping kill your enemy is undermining you?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/30 @ 1:52 pm #
Sdfrr it seems this guy is living on a cartoonish version of the world where he is the only rational player. Why else use phrases such as “pointless violence”?
The definition of a terrorist is: the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
You god damn idiot, by the freakin definition “terrorism” is not pointless violence. The only side you are suggesting as engaging in “pointless” violence is the Israeli’s, because you expect them to sit back and just get bombed every freakin day without responding so you can sit safe and warm in your house without wringing your freakin hands.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 2:01 pm #
Tuber don’t care about the details, he just needs the violence to continue so he can whine about Bush’s failed policies and use it to get Democrats elected. You can’t get that pork without killing a few pigs, you know.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 2:02 pm #
Still not interesting in the main, Mr. Pink. I just don’t care what cartoons a moron like that carries around in its head or spreads on the internets. Sorry.
Comment by mojo on 12/30 @ 2:04 pm #
Rockets?
Counter-battery fire. Radar back-track and hit ‘em while their rockets are still in the air (or before launch if you can, even better). Screw the “civilian” casualties. Tell ‘em to leave if they don’t want to die with the Hamassoles…
(See the W.T. Sherman quote above)
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 2:09 pm #
Mojo,
You are right, of course.
Unfortunately, the majority of folks seem not to understand warfare anymore.
The will of the enemy must be broken, and enough force must be used to assure the breaking…
Comment by Mossberg500 on 12/30 @ 2:10 pm #
parsnip, didn’t you recently comment that American had the right to exist until someone had the nukes to take it away? Can’t you logic apply to Israel? Doesn’t Israel have the right to occupy any land they chose based on the fact that they have the means to forcibly remove the inhabitants? Or, in your opinion, are nukes the only proper form of eviction?
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 2:11 pm #
My time among the Democrats has come to an end, B Moe.
My vote is up for grabs.
Mr. Pink thinks its rude to expect the warheads to actually accomplish something with all the money they get.
Any fool can kill, our jails are full of them.
Comment by Mossberg500 on 12/30 @ 2:13 pm #
American s/b America
Comment by Mark A. Flacy on 12/30 @ 2:22 pm #
Any fool can die, our cemeteries are full of them. Did you have a point with your gnomish utterance?
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 2:28 pm #
Did you have a point with your gnomish utterance?
Well, it did succeed in derailing a thread and getting people to respond to stupidity, so I guess that’s a win for that pathetic little loser.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 12/30 @ 2:28 pm #
“Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 1:35 pm #
Personally, I think my response was the best one.
You can’t reason with a person who does not use reason.
Call that “Veeshir’s Lawâ€Â.”
Veeshir gets it. Point and laugh, people. Point and laugh.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 2:30 pm #
Just that the U.S. and Israeli militaries have avoided having to deliver results lately, Mark.
Something must be done! has turned into some very mediocre performances on their parts.
Comment by maggie katzen on 12/30 @ 2:31 pm #
Comment by MAJ (P) John on 12/30 @ 2:39 pm #
Yup, last one to flee to the helicopter on the roof of the embassy in Baghdad is a rotten egg!
And it is a pity that Israel got wiped off the map by her enemies…
Comment by Mossberg500 on 12/30 @ 2:39 pm #
C’mon parsnip, doesn’t the fact that Israel can forcibly remove the inhabitants of Gaza give the Israelis the right to do so, or do I have my parsnipian logic wrong?
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 2:43 pm #
Well, they could try, Moss.
Where would they put them, though?
And would they get to vote in Israeli elections?
Comment by Mossberg500 on 12/30 @ 2:47 pm #
Nukes don’t leave inhabitants/voters! Look at it like a permanent eviction—you do prefer nukes, right?
Comment by maggie katzen on 12/30 @ 2:50 pm #
hmmm, nukes would solve that whole “where to put them” problem.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 2:51 pm #
I doubt Israel has nukes, Moss.
If they do, they must be very old and unreliable.
Like their tanks.
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 2:56 pm #
Eh, this thread was almost fun for a while and then you let this 10-year old fool derail it.
Oh well.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 2:59 pm #
“I doubt Israel has nukes, Moss.
If they do, they must be very old and unreliable.”
Let me assure you, they have them. And they are hardly old. They have a constant upgrade and renewal program.
Really, snip, you seem to be a nice person, but the above comment is just…..well, I won’t say it.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 3:01 pm #
“you let this 10-year old fool derail it. ”
BINGO!
And after this foolishness, ““I doubt Israel has nukes, Moss.
If they do, they must be very old and unreliable,â€Â
I’m outta here.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 3:01 pm #
Hang on Veeshir, I’ve got a link that may add evidence to your first posts speculation as to the Israelis pov of this Gaza operation. See what you think?
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 3:04 pm #
What good are these imaginary nukes to Israel, York?
They obviously don’t scare anybody and could only be used in the event that Israel has been destroyed.
A big risk and a big price to pay for one final tantrum.
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 3:14 pm #
Good link Sdferr, mostly because it reinforces what I already believe.
Think of it as FrnakJ’s “Nuke the Moon” stragety.
http://www.imao.us/docs/NukeTheMoon.htm
A big risk and a big price to pay for one final tantrum.
Think of it as performance art. That’s what I do.
Comment by Mossberg500 on 12/30 @ 3:16 pm #
Just using the parsnipian standard regarding your “right to exist” statement on a previous thread. It seems to me that the Palestinians no longer possess the “right to exist” based on Israel ability to eradicate them through nukes(your choice of annihilation, not mine).
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 3:24 pm #
I particularly approve the “ongoing” feel of the position Issacharoff and BG Shafir set out. That adds sense to the 48 hour pause link I posted earlier upthread. “Things are going to be very different from here on out” it seems to say. “We’re going on the offensive and we’ll decide when and where we act, not you. You get to reel backwards from time to time in reaction to our choices.” Fire a missile, loose another building. Fire a mortar, oops, there went another month long tunnel project, and with it the revenues it brought in.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 3:26 pm #
Who says the Palestinians can’t eradicate the Israelis, too, Moss?
Balance of terror?
In that case, both sides just yell a lot and swap ineffectual attacks on each other.
Comment by Mossberg500 on 12/30 @ 3:32 pm #
Who says the Palestinians can’t eradicate the Israelis, too, Moss?
Do you really need me to link the articles calling the actions of the Israelis a holocaust? I haven’t seen any articles or news reports claiming the Palestinian actions are going to cause another Jewish holocaust, have you?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 12/30 @ 3:37 pm #
“Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 2:30 pm #
Just that the U.S. and Israeli militaries have avoided having to deliver results lately, Mark.”
Yet more proof that alpo has no recognizable relationship with reality.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 12/30 @ 3:38 pm #
“Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 2:51 pm #
I doubt Israel has nukes, Moss.
If they do, they must be very old and unreliable.
Like their tanks.”
Yet more proof that alpo has no recognizable relationship with reality.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 3:39 pm #
I think Israel will die slowly, Moss, as its citizens find living there untenable.
A few more mods and those toy rockets will be hitting Tel Aviv.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 12/30 @ 3:44 pm #
“Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 3:39 pm #
I think Israel will die slowly, Moss, as its citizens find living there untenable.”
Yet more proof that alpo has no recognizable relationship with reality.
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 3:48 pm #
Do you really need me to link the articles calling the actions of the Israelis a holocaust?
No, it doesn’t. It’s saying stupid shit to get responses. It actually said that Israel has crap tanks.
Do a search for “Merkava”, it’s one of the finest tanks in the world and possibly the best for the type of fighting they see in Gaza where you have to deal with VBIEDS and various mines.
They’ve been updated continuously since they were first made and now have much of the electronics we have in our Abrams.
That 10 year old fool is just here to troll. Pure and simple.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 3:48 pm #
A few more mods and those toy rockets will be hitting Tel Aviv.
Which is probably why Fatah has decided to maybe play ball with Israel. Those crazy Hamas start shelling Tel Aviv….
…bad things, man, bad things.
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 3:49 pm #
Wait, is parsnip alfie?
I should have known. That mix of obnoxiousness, stupidity and ignorance is hard to disguise.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 4:08 pm #
B Moe,
What is Israel going to do, kill even more school kids?
They should have let Hamas run Palestine when they had the chance.
Comment by Veeshir on 12/30 @ 4:18 pm #
Yup, definitely alfie.
Most other grammar-school trolls at least call you names when you make fun of them, alfie understands it’s too stupid to get into a battle of wits so it just keeps on throwing out stupidity after ignorance after stupidity.
The worst part? It’s just not that funny.
Comment by Lt. York on 12/30 @ 4:19 pm #
From today’s best of the Web.
“By JAMES TARANTO
Remember Cynthia McKinney? She’s the batty ex-congresswoman from Atlanta whose father, then a state representative, offered this pithy explanation of her 2002 primary defeat: “Jews have bought everybody. Jews. J-E-W-S.”
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports McKinney has washed up in the Middle East:
A boat carrying international activists, including former Georgia congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, and medical supplies to the embattled Gaza Strip sailed back into a Lebanese port on Tuesday after being turned back and damaged by the Israeli navy, organizers of the trip said.
The crowds on the docks in the Lebanese port city of Tyre were jubilant and cheering as they welcomed the vessel.
The boat, which set off from Cyprus Monday wanted to make a statement and deliver medical supplies to embattled Gaza. The trip’s organizers said the boat was clearly in international waters, 90 miles off the coast of Gaza, at the time of its close encounter with the Israeli navy.
“Our boat was rammed three times, twice in the front and one on the side,” McKinney told CNN Tuesday morning. “Our mission was a peaceful mission. Our mission was thwarted by the aggressiveness of the Israeli military.”
Yigal Palmor, a spokesman for Israel’s Foreign Ministry, denied there had been any shooting although the two ships had made “physical contact.”
It’s a bit reminiscent of Rachel Corrie, the terror advocate who perished in a 2003 bulldozer accident while trying to protect weapons-smuggling tunnels in Gaza. Of course, there are some differences. For one, Corrie was only 23, so one may argue that, although she was legally an adult, her relative youth mitigates the evil of her actions. Quinquagenarian McKinney has no such excuse.
PODCAST
James Taranto on Cynthia McKinney’s Mideast adventure.
Another difference is that McKinney says she wanted to deliver medical supplies, not weapons. Although to judge by this New York Times account of what goes on at Gaza’s Shifa hospital, the difference may be less clear-cut than it seems:
Armed Hamas militants in civilian clothes roamed the halls. Asked their function, they said it was to provide security. But there was internal bloodletting under way.
In the fourth-floor orthopedic section, a woman in her late 20s asked a militant to let her see Saleh Hajoj, her 32-year-old husband. She was turned away and left the hospital. Fifteen minutes later, Mr. Hajoj was carried out by young men pretending to transfer him to another ward. As he lay on the stretcher, he was shot in the left side of the head.
“Mr. Hajoj, like five others killed at the hospital this way in 24 hours, was accused of collaboration with Israel. He had been in the central prison awaiting trial by Hamas judges; when Israel destroyed the prison on Sunday he and the others were transferred to the hospital. But their trials were short-circuited.
It is possible, however, for Palestinians from Gaza to get actual medical care, as Arutz Sheva reports:
Dozens of Gaza Arabs are being treated in Ashkelon’s Barzilai Hospital at the same time terrorists are bombarding the city. The medical facility, the largest on the southern coast, is in the line of rocket fire, and medical staff often have to stop caring for patients and run for cover during air rain warnings.
The 500-bed Barzilai Hospital has close ties with Gaza City’s Shifa Hospital, Barzilai deputy director Dr. Ron Lobel told the Associated Press. “It might seem completely absurd, but we have the privilege to be doctors. Our medical ethics do not distinguish between patients. We treat whoever needs to be treated,” he said
One Gaza Arab woman refused to identify herself to AP because of fear of retribution by terrorists if it were known that her two-month-old granddaughter is being treated in an Israeli hospital. “I am very sad and hurt. We want peace, not war,” she said as Israel began retaliating after hundreds of Arab rocket and mortar attacks, some of them lethal.”
If Cynthia McKinney really cared about the well-being of Palestinian Arabs, she would deliver those medical supplies to Israel.”
So snip, one side treats at its’ hospitals, the other executes “traitors” at its’ hospitals
Wanna bet that there are no death squads in Israeli hospitals?
And that’s all folks…
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 4:25 pm #
Separately, the political party of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued a statement condemning the attacks and calling on Islamic countries to cut relations with Israel and end all “secret and public talks” with it.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hEnNcEIZkLYEx0wEoVQcI0Dw9uLQD95CH5QO0
Who will America go with, Israel or Iraq?
Who’s got the oil?
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 4:38 pm #
“If Cynthia McKinney really cared about the well-being of Palestinian Arabs, she would deliver those medical supplies to Israel.â€Â
Word.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/29/video-idf-humanitarian-shipments-to-gaza/
But it so much more fun cruising around the Mediterranean in a yacht load of buddies.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 4:39 pm #
Who will America go with, Israel or Iraq?
Who’s got the oil?
That is how you make decisions, tuber. The rest of us not so much.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 4:52 pm #
Are you saying you right wing extremists are willing to give up on Iraq for Israel’s sake, B Moe?
Interesting.
Comment by bill on 12/30 @ 6:06 pm #
definition of parsnip-A strong-scented plant (Pastinaca sativa) cultivated for its long, white, edible, fleshy root.
Translation: It stinks and has been known to eat long white fleshy roots.
Comment by Bob Marley on 12/30 @ 6:06 pm #
Nope, I am saying some folks make decisions based on principle rather than profit. And why does it have to be an either or? Where is the hope?
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 6:08 pm #
dammit
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 6:09 pm #
Switching out is so hard to do. The fail seems to show up on average about once a day.
Comment by SDN on 12/30 @ 6:12 pm #
I’m disappointed in the Israeli navy; opportunities like that to chlorinate the gene pool are rare.
Israel or Iraq? I’ll take both for $500, Alex. Since both of them are now getting rid of murderous scum.
Comment by Rusty on 12/30 @ 6:32 pm #
What I found interesting is that palestinian intelligence is helping the IDF identify hamas targets. Got that bit over at the real Rusty’s site.Not that I’m not real,I just don’t have a blog.
Comment by guinsPen on 12/30 @ 6:34 pm #
Israel has undermined their allies fatah with this latest tantrum
Kudos, ‘nip, you’ve outdone yourself.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/30 @ 6:49 pm #
But really now, why wouldn’t they Rusty? It is in their interest after all. Once they stop emoting and think about it a little bit, that is.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 6:51 pm #
I’ll take both for $500
You can’t have both SDN, that’s the problem.
Iraq is now allied with Hamas.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 6:56 pm #
So I guess there is no point in Obama sitting down with anybody over then, preconditions or not. Damn, that was a big old kerfuffle about nothing, wasn’t it.
Comment by parsnip on 12/30 @ 6:58 pm #
That’s Hillary Clinton’s job, B Moe.
Will she where a scarf or not??!!?!?!?!
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 7:00 pm #
What’s to debate? You just said there is no middle ground, nothing to negotiate. Iraq is in league with Hamas, its a done deal.
Comment by B Moe on 12/30 @ 8:16 pm #
You know the funniest thing about Hillary being Sec. State? First thing she is more than likely going to have to deal with is cleaning up a couple more of Bill’s messes, the one thing she actually does have experience at.
http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2008/12/anyone_up_for_a.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473869,00.html
Comment by guinsPen on 12/30 @ 8:33 pm #
Well, bust my buttons.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/31 @ 1:07 am #
Instapundit linked this article at Jewcy by Michael Weiss, “Hamas as a Political Failure”. Terrific stuff.
Pingback by Israeli/Palestinian War « I Think ^(Link) Therefore I Err on 12/31 @ 9:20 am #
[...] Darleen at Protein Wisdom notes that Israel is already seeing results. BEIRUT, Lebanon – Lebanon’s powerful Hezbollah [...]
Comment by Rusty on 12/31 @ 10:12 am #
The problem with playing the moralequivlency game with a talking telephone pole is that they have no moral center to debate. Everything , with them, is relative to their POV. They are proud not accept any absolutes, because absolutes have never happened to them. Thus you are arguing with a child.