Recall how Obama approached the subject of nuclear energy during the campaign
Barack Obama said Tuesday that he would not take nuclear power “off the table†as a possible energy option, but blasted John McCain’s proposal to build dozens of new reactors in the U.S.The Democratic presidential candidate sought to carve out a more cautious approach to nuclear power. He said he supports increased research into nuclear waste storage and recycling, but could not endorse construction of new reactors until those concerns are resolved.
Bottom line, there will be no new nuclear energy plants under his watch. He just wants to appear to be for it.
The One is following the same strategy where it concerns Israel.
U.S. President-elect Barack Obama’s administration will offer Israel a “nuclear umbrella” against the threat of a nuclear attack by Iran, a well-placed American source said earlier this week. The source, who is close to the new administration, said the U.S. will declare that an attack on Israel by Tehran would result in a devastating U.S. nuclear response against Iran.But America’s nuclear guarantee to Israel could also be interpreted as a sign the U.S. believes Iran will eventually acquire nuclear arms. [...]
“What is the significance of such guarantee when it comes from those who hesitated to deal with a non-nuclear Iran?” asked a senior Israeli security source. “What kind of credibility would this [guarantee have] when Iran is nuclear-capable?”
As Mike Lief points out, PE Obama seems to be promoting a MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) strategy for Israel/Iran straight out of the Cold War US/Soviet era.
However, no matter the machinations of the Soviets they had in common with America one particular value that allowed MAD to work. A value that Iran doesn’t share.
Life.
There’s a strong cult of Messianism in the current Mullah-ocracy running Iran, one that talks of end times, and ascent into heaven for those who die killing non-Muslims — and especially Jews.The Iranians might very well be willing to accept large numbers of casualties in exchange for being known forever as the Muslim Land that excised the Jewish cancer from the home of Islam.
And what really guarantees America responding with nuclear weapons on Iran after Iran has wiped out Israel?
A senior Bush administration source said that the proposal for an American nuclear umbrella for Israel was ridiculous and lacked credibility. “Who will convince the citizen in Kansas that the U.S. needs to get mixed up in a nuclear war because Haifa was bombed? And what is the point of an American response, after Israel’s cities are destroyed in an Iranian nuclear strike?”
The new American President gets to posture as an ally of Israel while washing his hands of her.
How Obamanian.
Comment by Pablo on 12/16 @ 10:24 am #
Barabbas approves.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 10:55 am #
Yup, let’s forgo the one scalable non carbon producing energy source because of concerns over nuclear waste, a problem that doesn’t affect France even though they produce almost 80% of their electricity with this problematic system. Not to mention the fact that there are 70 million year stable areas in Nevada where this stuff could be packaged and stored.
Nope, let’s just genuflect to the AGW god, embrace our inner nuclear fears and all go back to farming, but as vegetarians.
Bizarro world is rising.
Comment by Steve Stuhldreher on 12/16 @ 11:02 am #
The One has proven that he can take every side of every issue in the world (deceptive or not) just enough to get even a small majority to follow… I can’t believe that so many people are so ignorant, “star struck”, or just to stupid to understand how he dances just enough around issues to avoid major criticism from mass outlets.
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 11:02 am #
There are also security concerns to building a bunch of new nuclear plants, BJ.
Comment by alppuccino on 12/16 @ 11:06 am #
There are also security concerns to building a bunch of new nuclear plants, BJ.
Ooh. Hadn’t thought of that. I wonder if there are any security concerns to electing a president who defended his comment that he would meet with Achmadinijead unconditionally, and then later said he didn’t say it.
Probably not.
Comment by Dash Rendar on 12/16 @ 11:09 am #
There are also security concerns to building chemical plants, oil refineries, ports, banks, miltary bases, schools, um, basically everything. So let’s just not even bother, because, ya know, its too hard.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 11:10 am #
Well he did say that right around the time he said he would accept public campaign funds. Which was right around the time he was in the “say anything to beat Hillary” mode of his campaign.
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 11:10 am #
“Lucy” is the natural role that liberals play toward anyone that is dependent on them.
Comment by Dash Rendar on 12/16 @ 11:10 am #
O, we should probably stop building skyscrapers too, because um, there are security issues.
Comment by maggie katzen on 12/16 @ 11:11 am #
and we best ground all the airplanes.
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 11:12 am #
Security concerns, ’snip? Do tell.
Comment by Roland THTG on 12/16 @ 11:12 am #
Balloon Fences though, that’s the ticket.
Comment by maggie katzen on 12/16 @ 11:12 am #
oh hey, has anyone told Iran about these security risks? I mean, they are refining all this uranium for power plants.
Comment by Dash Rendar on 12/16 @ 11:13 am #
I’m kind of curious what these clowns will say when fusion reactors come online. They are bascially radiation and waste free, although they still have the qualifying “nuclear” preceding fusion.
Comment by Darleen on 12/16 @ 11:14 am #
Dash
So let’s just not even bother, because, ya know, its too hard.
No no… in Obamaspeak it would be “I’m, uh, of course, um fully in support of [fill in] and believe we cannot take it off the table. But I, ah, w-we must also look into legitimate concerns and, ah, resolve those concerns before, um, going there.”
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 11:16 am #
I guess some people never have looked into the security concerns of being completely dependant on foreign nations for our energy supplies.
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 11:16 am #
The benefit of a MAD strategy is that it requires an Obama administration to do nothing. Sure, some targeting solutions have to be worked out (as far as anyone actually knows), but after that it’s like a RONCO carousel roaster–”Set it and forget it!”
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 11:20 am #
Don’t get snarky, kids.
I’m pro-nuclear power.
As long as they don’t build the plants within 100 miles of my house, of course.
Oh, and don’t build them up wind from my house, either.
Other than that, build away!
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 11:20 am #
God, yes, alphienip; there’s no possible way that we can secure that many nuclear plants.
Which, of course, is not the reason stated by !O! as to why he won’t build them. Those pesky Francophiles seem to have no problem either securing their plants or dealing with disposal issues.
Are we not as capable as France, monkeyboy? Wait … dont’ answer that as your response won’t be honest in any way.
what ever happened to the Alphablog, anyway?
Comment by Roland THTG on 12/16 @ 11:21 am #
Obama: We cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran. It would be a game changer. Not only would it threaten Israel, a country that is our stalwart ally, but it would also create an environment in which you could set off an arms race in this Middle East.
Whoops, misspoke, again.
Comment by Dash Rendar on 12/16 @ 11:23 am #
“But I, ah, w-we must also look into legitimate concerns and, ah, resolve those concerns before, um, going there.â€Â
Ahh, yes. Give it about 2 or 3 years until the soon-to-be dem gov’t find themselves in a neutron star of dissembling trying to reconcile the millions of electric cars they forced Detroit to make whilst the neglecting the, uh, how do you say, electricity needed to power those cars. Then they’ll say, we need fuel cell engines, not icky nuclear, that’s the ticket, rendering the 2 million electric cars Detroit just built junk. One would hope that if Pelosi et al. are going to mandate non-oil powered vehicles, they would have the minimal self-awareness to realize that only one side of the equation is balanced, nay, can be balanced given their nihilistic insistence on mythical purity.
Comment by PCachu on 12/16 @ 11:28 am #
In the Halo video game series, the player (a supersoldier addressed only by his rank of “Master Chief”) fights against a multiracial alien force calling itself the Covenant, working to stop its Hierarchs (more commonly called “Prophets”) from activating a series of enormous ringworlds that would initiate what they euphemistically called the Great Journey — which is fancy talk for wiping all intelligent life from the galaxy.
I bring this up for one reason and one reason alone: the Reformed Enemy character introduced in Halo 2, a disgraced warrior now serving the Hierarchs directly as penance for a bad performance review from the first game, was originally going to be called “the Dervish.” Rather than taking their chances with the Religion of Peace, however, they decided to change that name to “the Arbiter.”
The suicidal belligerence of Iran’s leadership makes the blatant allusions of the original name all the more appropriate.
Comment by Roland THTG on 12/16 @ 11:30 am #
“Iran’s development of a nuclear weapon, I believe, is unacceptable.”
“We cannot allow Iran to get a nuclear weapon. It would be a game-changer in the region. Not only would it threaten Israel, our strongest ally in the region and one of our strongest allies in the world, but it would also create a possibility of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of terrorists. And so it’s unacceptable. And I will do everything that’s required to prevent it. And we will never take military options off the table. And it is important that we don’t provide veto power to the UN or anyone else in acting in our interests. It is important, though, for us to use all the tools at our disposal to prevent the scenario where we’ve got to make those kinds of choices.”
Democratic presumptive presidential nominee Barack Obama vowed Wednesday he would work to “eliminate” the threat posed by Iran to security in the Middle East and around the globe.
“There’s no greater threat to Israel or to the peace and stability of the region than Iran,” he told the powerful pro-Israel lobby, the American Israel Public Affairs Council (AIPAC).
“The danger from Iran is grave and real and my goal will be to eliminate this threat,” he said, adding loudly to add emphasis that he would do “everything” to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.
Not so much, I guess.
Comment by daleyrocks on 12/16 @ 11:32 am #
Meanwhile, there are no legitimate issues surrounding AGW. The science is settled, settled I tells you.
Comment by maggie katzen on 12/16 @ 11:34 am #
eh, it’s a tiny country.
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 11:38 am #
Comment by daleyrocks on 12/16 @ 11:38 am #
When the U.S. resumes it’s rightful place as an economic powerhouse in the world through subsidizing the inefficient producion of wind and bioenergy, I believe it is Obama’s plan to simply buy Iran. Problem solved.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 12/16 @ 11:39 am #
Security is no problem: just surround each nuclear plant with a mile-high balloon fence, and it’s safe as houses.
Comment by SRS on 12/16 @ 11:39 am #
“Iran’s development of a nuclear weapon, I believe, is unacceptable.â€Â
WRONG!!! TTHERE IS NO BELIEVE!!! IT IS UNACCETABLE —– PERIOD!!!
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 11:43 am #
There’s nothing we can do to stop Iran building or buying nukes if they really want them, SRS.
How do we accept the unacceptable?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 11:43 am #
Hey look more drip drip.
“Sneed hears rumbles President-elect Barack Obama’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, is reportedly on 21 different taped conversations by the feds — dealing with his boss’ vacant Senate seat!”
http://www.suntimes.com/news/sneed/1333057,CST-NWS-SNEED16.article
Comment by maggie katzen on 12/16 @ 11:44 am #
why call it unacceptable, when you’ll accept it?
ooooh, this would be even more fun with the rum and coke.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 11:46 am #
Parsnip when are you joining up to go fight the wars now that they are good ones?
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 11:47 am #
You seem to have alot of time to blog while being an internet commando back in the states. Now that O! has won you should be all for signing up right?
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 11:50 am #
My beliefs forbid me from working in a government job, Mr. Pink.
But I’ll sure man the barricades if America is ever invaded!
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 11:50 am #
Sure you will. Chickenhawk.
Comment by SRS on 12/16 @ 11:52 am #
“How do we accept the unacceptable?”
Isreal (at least in talk) won’t accept it and is willing to stop it. Do you really want a nuclear war? Seriously? Because, if we do not do something other than begging Iran to be a good little neighbor and friend like a first grader, that will be the reality!
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 11:53 am #
Nothing we can do, ’snip? Really?
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 11:54 am #
Heh. More likely be part of the barricades.
Waste not want not.
Comment by Darleen on 12/16 @ 11:55 am #
My beliefs forbid me from working in a government job, Mr. Pink.
Yes, I’m sure parsh*t would never call the police or the fire department or the paramedics or use the courts or want anything to do with seeing criminals be sentenced to jail.
cuz of teh beliefs
Comment by SRS on 12/16 @ 11:57 am #
Confusious Say: Iran with uranium up ass has a big fart.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 11:57 am #
I honestly think he just made that up. He has shown a penchant for lying already so why stop now?
Comment by maggie katzen on 12/16 @ 11:59 am #
How do you keep a wave upon the sand?
Comment by Ric Locke on 12/16 @ 12:16 pm #
So, snip, let’s clarify. To start with: How many Americans must die before you “man the barricades”? No need for exactness, of course. A million? Ten million? (We know it’s more than three thousand, right?)
Next: Postulate a nuclear bomb on the New York waterfront, but no enemy soldiers step ashore.
Does this count as an “invasion” necessitating your manning the barricades? Does it justify any sort of reprisal?
If there are ships offshore but within U.S. territorial waters which are suspected to be somehow involved in the nuclear explosion mentioned above, is it permissible under any circumstances to monitor their communications? If so, will a simple search warrant be sufficient, or does it require an order of the Court? How much will you donate to the ACLU to support their suit seeking to Protect the Privacy Rights of American Persons? (Of course they won’t use ordinary radio, they’ll use cell phones. Since those conversations pass through American switches, listening to them is absolutely forbidden. Shredding the Constitution, don’t'cha know.)
When all the Governments in the world piously disclaim responsibility, you will of course believe them completely. This will, of course, mean that no nasty violent military response is appropriate; that goes without question. But tell me: can officers of the Baltimore police department go out to apprehend the criminals, or is it purely the jurisdiction (and therefore the responsibility) of the NYPD?
Once the perpetrators are apprehended, may they be incarcerated? How much should their bail be? (We can take it for granted that they cannot be interrogated, beyond polite inquiries as to their health and the like.) Does the City of New York have to finance their Court-appointed defense lawyers, or does that come out of US funds?
Inquiring minds, you know…
Regards,
Ric
Comment by Dash Rendar on 12/16 @ 12:24 pm #
Let me field that one Ric: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 12:26 pm #
How many more times will a Repub try to imply that American citizens of liberal persuasion haven’t ever nor will ever sacrifice with blood for America?
And the ACLU is more American than your tin soldiers, Ric.
Get you some honesty for lunch.
Comment by daleyrocks on 12/16 @ 12:29 pm #
thorichka – There are some topics people never tire of fuckstick.
Comment by Dash Rendar on 12/16 @ 12:31 pm #
When they stop rooting for the enemy, thor, I think maybe we’ll consider giving the left some respect.
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 12:32 pm #
Fixed it, stinky.
Comment by Roland THTG on 12/16 @ 12:34 pm #
Here’s snippy(The one without Cammies, because of the beliefs!
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 12:38 pm #
I’ve lived within 25 miles or less of a nuclear plant for most of my life. Ain’t no big whoop. I worked at TMI during the 1978 accident. I wore the same dosimeter during the 5 weeks I was there, working both on and off the island. My total radiation exposure was about 1/3 of a chest X-ray. Oh and winds shift so there is no such thing as “downwind,” genius. If you live in NYC then you have several reactors near by, old boiling water ones.
Again, what does France have in nuclear capabilities that we don’t? Obama is feeding the environuts who have hated nuclear anything since the early 60’s. A “lower carbon” energy policy that doesn’t include nuclear is an exercise in short and mid term futility.
Their fears are not based in science but in ignorance.
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 12:41 pm #
Hey, the one with Cammies, he looks like one of those who donated money to elect Barack Obama.
Comment by MAJ (P) John on 12/16 @ 12:44 pm #
Remember the ACLU Amphibious Brigade storming ashore at Tarawa? There was an ACLU Litigation Support Battalion next to my Kaserne in Sarajevo in 1997 too. Say, wasn’t there an ACLU Airlift wing involved in the liberation of Kuwait in Gulf War I?
Comment by alppuccino on 12/16 @ 12:46 pm #
Again, what does France have in nuclear capabilities that we don’t?
The French daily eat over 1000% more moldy cheeses per capita than Americans. It gives them the ability to absorb radiation. And it makes them snotty.
Comment by Dash Rendar on 12/16 @ 12:50 pm #
BJ, the ignorance factor is certainly there, but there’s also the aesthetic factor coming from Chernobyl and TMI. In the former case, it doens’t much matter about the engineering deficits coupled with human error and in the latter, the cancer rates of the surrounding population and other residual factors are never considered, it is merely the possibility of catastrophe that matters. Same goes for Yucca mountain. It doesn’t matter that the waste will be stored reasonably safe and away from populated areas, but that it might soak into groundwater, might being the key word; the notion that it will sit there for 10,000 years or some such is seen as a mortal sin against mother gaia, not exactly in those words, but the cannard “10,000″ years is seen as a damning statement in of itself. Not to mention that the federal gov’t pays energy companies who gave funds to develop the mountain $1 Billion/year for its current incapacity to operate, well largely because of the aesthetics.
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 12:59 pm #
Those pesky Francophiles seem to have no problem either securing their plants or dealing with disposal issues.
France did nuclear right. They have a few plant designs–basically small, medium or large–and repeat them over and over again. Most of our plants have unique designs, which is not exactly optimal for fueling, etc. issues.
Also, we should reprocess the nuclear waste. Lots of it could be turned into fuel again, and some of the other isotopes have uses as well.
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 1:01 pm #
Also, Yucca Mountain should be sold as “temporary” in the sense of perhaps several centuries. The better we get at launching stuff into space, the more likely it will be cost effective and safe to just launch the stuff into the sun.
Reduced volume through reprocessing would help.
Comment by Old Texas Turkey on 12/16 @ 1:01 pm #
How many more times will a Repub try to imply that American citizens of liberal persuasion haven’t ever nor will ever sacrifice with blood for America?
There is no implication here, asshole. Those are direct charges.
Don’t see too many of us manning the Code Pinko blockades, burning and looting in the name of anarchy, railing against imperial fascist America, living in trees, leaking state secrets to the media, photo-opping on AA batteries in Hanoi, draft dodging, human shielding, calling uniformed members of the military “baby killers”, bombing police HQ in NYC or the Pentagon, undermining a sitting President by criticizing America to foreigner governments, throwing shoes at visiting Heads of State, commiting arson on private property, recieving stolen goods, selling stolen goods, practicing dentistry without a license, using marked cards and loaded dice.
ok maybe I added a few there at the end.
Comment by Ric Locke on 12/16 @ 1:06 pm #
Well, no, thor, I’m just trying to get the parameters set.
alphie will “man the barricades if America is ever invaded.” I take that to mean that actual soldiers, in uniform, under sponsorship of some recognized State, must enter United States territory and commit violent acts before he will countenance a response, is that correct?
If so, how much violence must occur before the response? Will destruction of, say, Miami be sufficient? How about San Juan, Puerto Rico? Honolulu? –note that no Japanese soldier ever set foot in the Hawai’ian Islands. Was the response disproportionate? (Of course not. The President was a Democrat. If the President had been a Republican, what response would have been appropriate?)
Assuming people not in uniform and denied by all States (a good bet, nowadays), may military forces be used to confront them? Or does posse comitatus apply? If the latter, may the city under attack borrow police from other jurisdictions? Or should the INS (whatever it’s called these days) politely arrest them for lacking the proper visa? (No, of course not. That’s racist.) Are they eligible for amnesty?
Inquiring minds…
Regards,
Ric
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 1:13 pm #
note that no Japanese soldier ever set foot in the Hawai’ian Islands.
I think one pilot ended up on Niihau on Dec. 7. But, generally, right.
One incendiary bomb was dropped by submarine-launched aircraft on the West Coast. A bit of shelling there, too. And, of course, Attu and Kiska in Alaska.
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 1:14 pm #
And then there were the balloon bombs.
Comment by Roland THTG on 12/16 @ 1:17 pm #
And, after all that, we attacked….. The French!
Comment by Jim in KC on 12/16 @ 1:19 pm #
Of course. They’re simply working hard at a job Americans won’t do.
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 1:20 pm #
The Energy Secretary-designate is big on nuclear power, I believe. That’s a good thing if he sticks with it.
Atoms for peace!
Comment by Darleen on 12/16 @ 1:21 pm #
How many more times will a Repub try to imply that American citizens of liberal persuasion haven’t ever nor will ever sacrifice with blood for America?
Which Repub and which Liberal? There are many patriotic liberal Americans (see: Lieberman, Joe)
However, what the American Left has in common with the European Left is an abject hatred of America. (see Chomsky, Ayers, Zinn)
Pointing out the obvious is no implication.
No matter that much of formerly anti-left American Liberalism has been subplanted by the Left, the attempt of the Left to use liberalism as a figleaf for their anti-Americanism then crying “How dare you question my patriotism!” is mendacious, cynical gaming that should not ever be allowed to pass. Any Leftcult asswipe should be forcefully called on it.
You, sir, are a cowardly liar. If you were any where near me I’d treat you like the mangy, piddling cur you are.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 1:27 pm #
Thank Jimmah and a cheesy movie called “The China Syndrome.” The operators at TMI were grossly under trained and made egregious mistakes. Chernobyl? In addition to the many shortcut design flaws the Russians didn’t deem it advisable to build a containment dome around the reactor. Most domes are speced to withstand a direct hit from a jumbo jet without losing containment.
It was a testament to the safety protocols at TMI that the operators could screw up as much as they did and still managed to not irradiate the surrounding area. Also, the radiation released at TMI as almost all “non body assayable,” meaning it wasn’t the sort absorbed by various tissue groups (I.E. Iodine 131 in the thyroids, Uranium in the lungs, etc.) Unless produced in massive doses, Krypton and Xenon radiations won’t hurt a fly.
Comment by Crixus on 12/16 @ 1:27 pm #
Don’t you live in California? Liberals outnumber conservatives 2 to 1. Why don’t you go beat one up, Darleen, and show everyone how patriotic you are.
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 1:27 pm #
Tell me of your memories of Tarawa. The sex lives of cannibals especially interests me. Please write a funny book about that.
I wish there were more lawyers like you and less like the ones at the ACLU. You’re so better.
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 1:32 pm #
The operators at TMI were grossly under trained and made egregious mistakes.
TMI was used in our tech communications course as an example of ineffective communication. TMI was similar in design to a reactor near Cleveland that had the same accident (coolant water draining out at wrong time) at 10% power. No problem, because it was only at 10% power. But the engineers recognized the potential threat and tried to communicate it up the chain. 18 months later, it hadn’t made it to the right people when TMI had the same accident at 100% power. Oops. Proper engineering of the containment structure and other parts prevented a serious release. (The USSR wasn’t big on containment structures, by the way; they often omitted them from designs.)
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 1:32 pm #
I’d treat you like I always do. I hope Santa gets you that pogo stick you asked for.
Comment by alppuccino on 12/16 @ 1:32 pm #
Why don’t you go beat one up, Darleen, and show everyone how patriotic you are.
Beating up a liberal. An item on everyone’s bucket-list…..right after “Finish 25 piece jigsaw puzzle”
Comment by MAJ (P) John on 12/16 @ 1:33 pm #
I’ll give the ACLU props- they have defended America quite successfully against the horror of creches being displayed during Christmas, and they did bravely make sure that Holocaust survivors in Skokie got to have the Illinois Nazis march through their town. Now that is making sure America is safe!
Comment by Thor's Spooge Stained Panties on 12/16 @ 1:33 pm #
CRUNCHY!
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 1:37 pm #
But but but–that’s prohibited by US law. Congress knows best.
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 1:38 pm #
I think I vaguely remember reading they defended a kid who got tossed from school for wearing a Jesus Saves t-shirt. Probably got him off on a technicality, effen ACLU legal weasels!
Comment by Darleen on 12/16 @ 1:45 pm #
Liberals outnumber conservatives 2 to 1. Why don’t you go beat one up, Darleen
Liberals are not all Leftists … and Leftists are too cowardly to admit who they are in public. They’d rather “rage” anonymously or gangbang on little old women who don’t agree with them.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 1:46 pm #
JohnAnnArbor:
I worked with some ex Navy Nuc guys running a training center operating at Conn Yankee in Middleton. They explained that one could be trained to be an excellent operator or one could be trained to past the test. Their training program conssisted of thirty weeks, 8 hours a day, five days a week with a 50% failure rate. The guys at TMI took a 13 week course and passed the test. Do the math. I traveled to TMI directly from my Middleton gig (I was running a Whole Body Assay Unit for scanning personel) and thought back to those guys telling me that the operators at TMI were “crap.” Tags covering gauges, water flushed into the Auxiliary building and water levels in the reactor low enough to form the dreaded Hydrogen Bubble. Lack of communication was only a part of that kerfuffle. We were getting 100-200Mr readings off of the island. We all breathed a sigh of relief when the first samples were analyzed and came back Non Body Assayable. It still caused some irrational concern when it rained and the geiger counters started clicking. Eerie.
TMI became the excuse for the whole “Nuclear Plants are Unsafe!!11eleventy!!11″ chant.
You are right about France but left out the special thing that makes them work so well, as ric locke reminded me a while ago: They are Plutonium Reactors which makes them more efficient, cleaner and has the added benefit of creating waste that is almost 100% recyclable.
Watching Obama or Gore or any of the other enviroweenies talk about nuclear is to hear them give lip service but see a facial expression akin to biting into a rotten lemon.
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 1:47 pm #
Illinois Nazis.
I hate Illinois Nazis.
Comment by Pablo on 12/16 @ 1:49 pm #
Didn’t Billy Ayers sacrifice a piece of ass for America? Kablooey!
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 1:52 pm #
I wish Larry Craig wouldn’t frighten old ladies with his protests.
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 1:55 pm #
you think you vaguely remember….
Yeah. That sounds right.
They don’t publicize *that* kind of case.
Any benchmark cases along those lines?
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 1:59 pm #
BJTexs: did any learning occur in the civilian community after TMI? I’d like to hope so. The military has done very well, safety-wise: only two lost reactors (Thresher and Scorpion), both due to non-reactor-related issues.
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 2:01 pm #
I believe there to be many chapters all with websites. Gotta dig sometimes.
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 2:05 pm #
You “gotta dig” because they practice legal tokenism. They take on a case like that in order to be able to point to it as “evidence” of their evenhandedness.
Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 2:08 pm #
Yes, the ACLU are tokeneerists, frauds and lawyers, all of ‘em.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 2:09 pm #
I would consider 3000 dead Americans to be an act of war Ric worth manning the barracade. But hey that is just my dumbass who has been called a babykilling Iraqi murderer for the last 5 years so carry on. Hell this time in 2003 my unit got their warning order. Too bad we didn’t have any real men like parsnips with us we woulda won the war back in 2004.
Comment by Dash Rendar on 12/16 @ 2:10 pm #
Certainly scumbags, at bare minimum.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 2:11 pm #
Oh yeah f@ck the ACLU.
Comment by thor posting as DarthRove on 12/16 @ 2:13 pm #
[deleted]
[NOTE TO THOR: stick to your own anonymous name, fuckwit, or you'll be banned from my threads ... ed]
Comment by Mossberg500 on 12/16 @ 2:22 pm #
Yeah, probably near 100% approval rating among NAMBLA members.
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 2:25 pm #
Their fears are not based in science but in ignorance.
A little irony from the right, Ric?
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 2:26 pm #
#82: John:
Well we virtually stopped building reactors for the public so there was no need to “re-educate” anybody. If we were to start accelerating the process (I believe that four new reactors are scheduled to come online shortly in Texas) the protests and court suits will once again make their way through the “barricades.”
Part of the problem in 1978 was Nobel Prize winning scientists (but not for Physics) telling people that any radiation was bad. This is what we liked to refer to in the industry as “a crock of shit.” Uncle Walter on CBS didn’t help much, either. I had daily access to the updated erase board that showed the reactor status. I’d go to my hotel, turn on “Unc” and by the time he was done I’d be scared all over again.
Even some of the long term medical studies from the inhabitants of the Pacific islands near the H-Bomb tests showed much less long term causality than expected. There has never been a credible study (and there have been hundreds) that showed any statistically significant long term anomalies from the TMI accident. Chernobyl was on an order of magnitude of thousands of times worse and is a case study for worse case.
Do a test sometime and find ten people at random who have heard of Chernobyl and ask them what kind of explosion occurred there. I’ll bet you a pint of Bass Ale that 6 or more say that it was a “nuclear explosion.” Of course it was a steam explosion that spread radioactive materials far and wide (again, no containment building.) I’m not a science geek by any measure but I learned enough to banish irrational fears of nuclear energy. Many, many people operate at a level of ignorance that is stunning. One woman sold her house across the river from TMI because she was convinced the stones in her dwelling were “absorbing radiation.” That’s what you have to deal with when it comes to nuclear power and the people who fear it.
Comment by DarthRove on 12/16 @ 2:28 pm #
Wow, I have an evil twin!
Back to your place, troll.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 2:36 pm #
Parsnip you should travel over to http://www.goarmy.com you can get some good information over there.
PS DarthRove one of em sock puppeted me the other day too. Do not ask me why.
Comment by Darleen on 12/16 @ 2:47 pm #
Darth
I took care of it.
Comment by DarthRove on 12/16 @ 2:51 pm #
Thanks, Darleen. Take two lightsaber crystals out of petty cash.
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 2:54 pm #
Mr. Pink,
I don’t care for the Army’s latest ad campaign (Army Strong).
If they brought back “Be all you can be” I’d think about it.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 2:59 pm #
Sure you would. Coward.
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 3:05 pm #
So nasty, Mr. Pink.
You are right, though.
I have children, so it would be kind of irresponsible of me to run off and join the military.
Being a parent isn’t for wimps.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 3:06 pm #
Yea, alphie, I just bet you’d think about it. You’d be thinking about the “giant welfare system” that is the military, wouldn’t you. Your words.
They haunt you, you know.
Comment by Cave Bear on 12/16 @ 3:08 pm #
JohnAnnArbor,
Yes, things definitely got better in the nuclear industry after TMI. If anything, the NRC and other regulatory agencies went a little overboard in their improvements. I know that a lot of the NDT outfits that go to these plants to checking the plumbing and whatnot are not too wild about checking the newer plants, since everything is so overengineered. I would not go so far as to say that the operators are as good as the Navy “nukes”, but their training is head and shoulders above anything that was around back in the late 1970s.
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 3:13 pm #
I think we need to rethink all make work government programs in these economically troubled times, BJ.
Comment by Mr. Pink on 12/16 @ 3:13 pm #
“I have children, so it would be kind of irresponsible of me to run off and join the military.”
Oh so you consider it “running” off? Very nice of you to say such things. So when are you enlisting your kids? I would hate for you to be voting O! in only to send other children off to Iraq and Afghanistan. Since in his last of many statements on Iraq he said he would keep 40 thousand troops there we need 40 thousand fresh soldiers to help out there. That warmonger. Or your kid might get to fight over in the hills of Afghan. That would be great right? You could be so proud of him fighting the good Democrat run wara that will have no missteps or mistakes. Also there will be no war crimes at all now and if there are they will be no fault of anyones but the people that commited them. We need you and your kids man to come help out the war effort. One team one fight!!!!! Let us all unit now that O! has won who is with me?
Comment by SDN on 12/16 @ 3:15 pm #
Actually, John, the best way to deal with nuclear waste is Jerry Pournelle’s idea of dropping it into the subduction zones where plate tectonics would carry it back down into the lava it came from.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 3:15 pm #
Cave Bear: Yea the operator training was upgraded after TMI in response to the “pass the test” concept. That probably reflects the fact that there have been no significant issues with any plant since TMI outside of the usual unexpected outages due to safety trips.
Have the “rad tech” professions changed since the late Seventies? They were a wild bunch, moving from plant to plant for outages, using up their quarterly Rem totals and taking the rest of the quarter off due to the hazard pay. I once found four of them sitting outside my trailer shooting up heroin. they were the “short burn” crews who would be brought in for a couple of hours exposure in high rad areas. Used up their quarterly allotments in two hours. The idea used to give me the willies.
BTW: I loved going to Conn Yankee because the two ex Navy guys had a $650,000 reactor simulator and, after hours, we’d practice at trying to get the “reactor” to melt down. Never quite succeeded.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 3:18 pm #
Our military is “make work?” What, no better than the guys in orange vests who pick up trash along the highway?
You are still a despicable little asshole, aren’t you? Whatever happened to Alphablog, anyway?
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 3:24 pm #
I think of the military as just another government money sink, BJ.
What’s wrong with that?
Maybe they could be redirected to building nuclear power plants?
No idea what “Alphablog” is, got a link?
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 3:24 pm #
Part of the problem in 1978 was Nobel Prize winning scientists (but not for Physics) telling people that any radiation was bad.
The dose makes the poison. I explained that to an environmental science class (high school) that clearly was being indoctrinated by their normal teacher. Wasn’t invited to sub for him again. Wonder why….
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 3:33 pm #
Do a test sometime and find ten people at random who have heard of Chernobyl and ask them what kind of explosion occurred there. I’ll bet you a pint of Bass Ale that 6 or more say that it was a “nuclear explosion.†Of course it was a steam explosion that spread radioactive materials far and wide (again, no containment building.) I’m not a science geek by any measure but I learned enough to banish irrational fears of nuclear energy. Many, many people operate at a level of ignorance that is stunning. One woman sold her house across the river from TMI because she was convinced the stones in her dwelling were “absorbing radiation.†That’s what you have to deal with when it comes to nuclear power and the people who fear it.
And Greenpeace is only too happy to feed that ignorance. Any attempt at fact-telling is denounced.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 3:35 pm #
John: the main scientist’s name I can’t remember… He was famous for expopusing Vitamin C as the cure for everything and he won his Nobel in Chemistry. I’m sure he’s dead as he was in his seventies (at least) in 1978.
Anybody have any idea who that might be?
Oh and both the dose and the Tissue Absorption Rate. both are critical although if the dose is high enough, body assayability is moot.
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 3:37 pm #
Linus Pauling?
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 3:38 pm #
The one “government money sink” that is actually spelled out by the Constitution as part of the imperative to “…defend?” That “welfare” program? That “make work” program?
Your ignorance is astounding.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 3:38 pm #
Yes, Linus Pauling. As batty as a cave in Sicily, he was.
Comment by Cave Bear on 12/16 @ 3:43 pm #
Yeah, Linus Pauling. Outside his area of expertise, but then the so-called “scientific” anti-nuke crowd always is.
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 3:46 pm #
America’s fear of nuclear power plants may be “anti-scientific” but it still has to be overcome.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 3:47 pm #
He was a loon, back then. He looked so authoritative and distinguished the press just ate him up. Only problem: He didn’t have the first clue what he was saying.
“Any dose of radiation is dangerous. They should evacuate all people out of here for a 20 mile radius!”
That was a Nobel scientist making as unscientific a statement as is humanly possible.
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 3:56 pm #
Any dose of radiation is dangerous.
That would preclude living anywhere. There’s always a background count. And it’s higher in brick and stone buildings.
Comment by BJTexs on 12/16 @ 3:57 pm #
And that background count varies according to where you live. Each individual dose would change as one changes where they live.
Comment by Sdferr on 12/16 @ 4:09 pm #
Is it fun for kicks and giggles to walk into some unsuspecting yuppie’s kitchen and aim a geiger counter at their granite countertops? You betcha.
Comment by Ric Locke on 12/16 @ 4:45 pm #
Granite countertops?
::chuckle::
What used to be fun, back before it would get you arrested, was to take one along on an airline flight.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 12/16 @ 4:49 pm #
Good point, Ric. Especially on a Concorde; the count would be even higher up there.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 12/16 @ 4:50 pm #
“Comment by thorichka on 12/16 @ 1:47 pm #
Illinois Nazis.
I hate Illinois Nazis.”
You hate youself?
Understandable.
Nuts, but understandable.
Obviously the only rational solution to your problem is suicide
Comment by Techie on 12/16 @ 4:51 pm #
Better yet, look for orange glazed pottery, particularly Fiestaware. That’s my favorite thing to test the Geiger counter on.
Comment by thor on 12/16 @ 4:59 pm #
[deleted]
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 4:59 pm #
The military isn’t for those who can’t be bothered to find out what they are talking about.
Soldiers with children are required to file, and keep up to date, a Family Care Plan that details who will care for their children or dependent adults under several different scenarios. Those are unable to make satisfactory arrangements are separated from the service.
But you feel free to smear service people with children as “irresponsible.”
Comment by Spiny Norman on 12/16 @ 5:14 pm #
#123 Techie
Or the really brightly-colored candy kids sell on the street in Tijuana – and in San Diego for a while when I lived there, until the County Health Dept. had a conniption. Heh.
Comment by Darleen on 12/16 @ 6:18 pm #
Comment by parsnip on 12/16 @ 3:24 pm # |Edit This
I think of the military as just another government money sink, BJ.
Why do you hate the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution?
Comment by B Moe on 12/16 @ 7:51 pm #
An item on everyone’s bucket-list…..right after “Finish 25 piece jigsaw puzzleâ€Â
I don’t know what the big deal is with jigsaw puzzles, I tried one the other day said 4-6 years on the box but it only took me like a week and a half. Are they all that easy?
Comment by MAJ (P) John on 12/16 @ 8:20 pm #
SSG (say, when did that deserved promotion occur?!!) – I’d really rather not have anyone of par’s mindset in our Army, right?
Comment by Bob Reed on 12/16 @ 10:10 pm #
Great point Darleen, about MAD only working with folks that don’t have a national death wish…
And O! seems to think that people, anywhere, actually believe that he would use nukes???
I mean, what would the folks at the UN say; oh the horror, the vapors, the scandalization…
He won’t use the military on scalawags who deserve it, let alone nukes…
The only reason that he’s married to the Afghanistan front is it’s sanctioned by the UN and NATO, and he spent the last 2 years railing about how it was the legitimate war, as opposed to Iraq; a capricious act of arbitrary conquest fought simply to amuse Chimperor BusHitlerBurton…
Comment by SSG RaTsO -- Proud to be ODD! on 12/16 @ 10:19 pm #
Hey, Sir. 17 Oct is my new DOR.
When will they get your well-deserved promotion through? And will you be changing all your screennames after it happens?
I might enjoy being given him in my squad for a while.
Comment by the artist formerly known as thor on 12/17 @ 5:44 am #
It’s a line, stooge.
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