As the farce in Texas continues to unravel, look to the raid as partially a moment of political opportunism
The sect — which broke away from the mainstream Mormon Church long ago — built its Yearning for Zion Ranch four years ago just outside Eldorado, a dusty western Texas hamlet. Its members attracted attention from locals, who were unnerved by the sight of FLDS women in full-length prairie dresses coming and going at the walled compound.
Many here cheered the raids, but on Friday residents were fuming. “I absolutely don’t agree with what they do,” Curtis Phillips, 33, said of the FLDS as he worked the register at the town’s feed and mercantile store. “But blowing in that ranch like cowboys and taking all those kids — that was just stupid. That’s why people like me don’t trust the government.”
Curtis Griffin, 45, owner of the local fuel depot, counts many FLDS members as customers. He blamed Sheriff David Doran, who is up for reelection, for mischaracterizing the entire sect as pedophiles.
“I said from the word go, if there’s sex with underage girls, nail their butt,” said Griffin. “But nail the right people. We’re going to wind up with a $30-million bill here in this little county because these people didn’t have their ducks in a row.”
The town also was abuzz over an anticipated mass voter registration by the FLDS. Hours after the court first ruled against the state, two members of the sect walked into the county clerk’s office and requested 300 voter registration forms, a potentially tide-turning number in a county with 1,800 voters.
Doran, who has been sheriff here for 12 years, downplayed that. “I’m not worried about it. The citizens have always stood behind me, and if the community feels this is an attempt to take over Schleicher County, I know they’ll stand together. Once we begin impaneling some grand juries and the criminal case comes to light, we’ll see the tide turn once again.”
And here I thought the Nifong debacle would serve as a cautionary tale for years to come.
My bad.
Pingback by a-foton » Blog Archive » Bad Faith, part duex - it’s the politics, Jack [Darleen Click] on 5/31 @ 9:55 pm #
[...] Ed Brill wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptAs the farce in Texas continues to unravel, look to the raid as partially a moment of political opportunism The sect — which broke away from the mainstream Mormon Church long ago — built its Yearning for Zion Ranch four years ago just outside Eldorado, a dusty western Texas hamlet. Its members attracted attention from … [visit site to read more] [...]
Comment by TmjUtah on 5/31 @ 10:08 pm #
I’m no lawyer… but just how much evidence stemming from information gleaned as a result of the original raid is going to be like stored on the surface of one of Jupiter’s moons, as far as the State’s attorneys are concerned?
Comment by Darleen on 5/31 @ 10:16 pm #
Tmj
I don’t know. But I do know a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. Nifong got indictments.
Like I’ve said before, Walther and many in the CPS will do just about anything to footdrag on giving the children back to their families. They keep hoping for the publicity to die down and people start moving on to the next thing so they can destroy the FLDS families by one means or another.
This story is far from over.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/31 @ 10:23 pm #
Stupid shitkicker is embarrassing my state what I love very much just not enough to live there.
Comment by Lisa on 5/31 @ 10:26 pm #
Yes, it IS far from over. The Texas authorities were wrong in how the executed this whole debacle. Those kids got the shaft big time. But I am far from feeling sympathetic at all about the creeps in that childfucking hell-cult. They are our own local Taliban (minus the bombs) -they are just as ugly, creepy, freaky and stupid. They are free to be ugly, creepy, freaky and stupid because this is a free country. But if they keep up with the child-bride shit, someone is going to figure out a way to get rid of them (or ship their asses over to Afghanistan or somewhere where child raping and mute women/broodmares (in ugly sackcloths) are appreciated.
Comment by B Moe on 5/31 @ 10:32 pm #
They are our own local Taliban …
No. Nobody would dare pull this shit against an American Islamic polygamist compound.
Comment by Lisa on 5/31 @ 10:39 pm #
#7: Too true. When it comes to Islamic fundie child rapers, one must be sensitive to their culture and careful not to offend them or hurt their baby feelings.
…so, we either run into a place and wantonly grab kids and split up families without a shred of evidence (not that I don’t believe that there is definitely some disgusting and illegal shit going on…but really…I watch enough Law and Order to know you actually have to have a CASE before running up into someones house and taking their fucking kids)
….or we pussyfoot around and let people do all manner of shit to their kids because we dont want to offend their Islamic culture. We wait until dad sets his daughters on fire for wearing lip gloss.
Makes you want to bang your head repeatedly against a hard surface.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/31 @ 10:47 pm #
They don’t have to make such a spectacle of themselves just to do what’s right is all. Get things sorted out. That’s what these people are paid to do. Not make a scene.
Comment by Lisa on 5/31 @ 10:47 pm #
D’oh! Meant to address that to #6. Though I often talk to myself, I don’t often post comments to myself, lol.
Comment by Lisa on 5/31 @ 10:53 pm #
#8: Exactly. Get some semblance of a case together then start making some arrests. I realize that everyone is probably lying their asses off, but sorting out the liars is also their job. Don’t just bust in and grab everyone and hope you can shake a case out of all of that foolishness. Especially not with a bunch of religious whackjobs. They love all that iron fist shit. Reinforces their feelings of isolation and persecution.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/31 @ 11:07 pm #
1. 3 dissenters on the Texas supreme court felt the children should stay in custody.
2. So far, the State had enough evidence to convice Dan Jessop to turn his baby over to CPS custody.
just because you haven’t seen the evidence yet, doesn’t mean the state don’t have it.
Comment by Darleen on 5/31 @ 11:07 pm #
Lisa
did you read the letters from the mental health professionals who were at the prison camp at Ft. Concho? (on my first Bad Faith post, linked above)
Please read ‘em then get back to me who are the real creeps in this case.
Comment by Darleen on 5/31 @ 11:11 pm #
twatbrain
What was the split on Roe v Wade?
What evidence? The prejudicial photos? And Jessop didn’t “turn over” his infant. He only agreed to let CPS continue to have custody in order that the newborn wasn’t immediately seized from his wife and farmed out to foster care along with is 1 and 3 year old…for up to a year or maybe forever.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/31 @ 11:11 pm #
let me make this simple for you Proteins.
Darleen is stupid.
Don’t read Darleen.
Beldar is smart.
Read Beldar.
The mainstream media and some legal pundits and commenters (see, e.g., here) may play this as another big loss for the Department. But in fact, the Texas Supreme Court gave the Department (and the lower courts) some badly needed suggestions and guidance, and clearly signaled that more carefully tailored relief may still be appropriately granted at the trial court level even on this vastly incomplete record. And while it presumably needs to move swiftly, the Department does not necessarily have to immediately return all the children with no strings attached as the trial court considers those alternatives.
Comment by Darleen on 5/31 @ 11:14 pm #
twatbrain
did you read the eye witness accounts from the mental health professionals?
Or do you just continue to live in your alternate reality?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/31 @ 11:15 pm #
darleen, Jessop agreed to let the State retain custody in order to prevent the testimony of 8 underage girls from being heard by the court. The testimony of 8 underaged girls who have been subjected to child rape is evidence.
read the article.
some mad parentin skillz that guy Jessop has.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/31 @ 11:18 pm #
the yucky pics are evidence because Jessop’s underage sister was fakemarried to Jeffs in 2006.
the pics are wedding photos.
Jessops underaged sister is on CPS custody.
Should she go back?
Her own brother let her be fakemarried to a 52 year old man when she was 12.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/31 @ 11:18 pm #
He likely gave away the bride.
Comment by Darleen on 5/31 @ 11:23 pm #
you pulled that out of your ass
carefull, you might have damaged your brain in the process
Comment by Darleen on 5/31 @ 11:27 pm #
btw Dan Jessop and his wife are only two years apart in age (24, 22) and are monogamous
I thought that never happened in the FLDS
and twatbrain avoids the MH professionals.
Comment by B Moe on 5/31 @ 11:27 pm #
let me make this simple for you Proteins.
Darleen is stupid.
Don’t read Darleen.
Beldar is smart.
Read Beldar.
Let me make this simple for nishfong:
You have no idea what the fucking issue is here, let alone enough sense to have an opinion on it.
But go right ahead and make a fucking fool of yourself, you seem to have no other real skills.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/31 @ 11:45 pm #
sure darleen, that is true….and that is why Jessop should have been able to get his baby back, right?
except he didn’t.
i hypothesize because his little sister was going to rat him out for fakemarryin her off to to a creepy pedophile 40 years older than her.
what’s your hypothesis, darleen?
Comment by B Moe on 5/31 @ 11:54 pm #
It’s like watching a retarded puppy try to fuck a vacuum cleaner.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:03 am #
oh for cripes sakes darleen.
you are out of control.
you are sullying Jeff’s brand with your rabid stupidity.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:04 am #
beldar had to delete your comment????
zomg.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 12:39 am #
none of my comments have been deleted twatwaffle.
so, what about that child abuse committed by the CPS at Ft Concho?
Comment by Ted Nugent's Soul Patch on 6/1 @ 12:47 am #
“you are sullying Jeff’s brand with your rabid stupidity.”
Projection, apparently, isn’t just for movie theaters.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 12:47 am #
Beldar removed my clearly labeled snark in one comment. His blog his rules.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 12:48 am #
sure darleen, that is true….and that is why Jessop should have been able to get his baby back, right?
except he didn’t.
Isn’t that the whole issue here? This guy is obviously not one of the rapists, yet his children (and wife) have been taken away from him.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 12:57 am #
MayBee
she doesn’t understand, doesn’t want to understand, that one can love their child so much that one will do almost anything, agree to anything, to protect them and have them with you.
CPS threatened the women, within hearing of their children, that they would lose their children forever.
That is unforgivable.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 1:10 am #
yet his children (and wife) have been taken away from him.
false.
Jessop GAVE his child to CPS. to prevent the court from hearing evidence.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 1:11 am #
still, i hardly think Jeff would aprove.
;)
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 1:15 am #
Jessop GAVE his child to CPS. to prevent the court from hearing evidence.
No, his wife is living with the baby away from the compound.
You can’t give up a baby to “prevent” a court from hearing evidence.
The court was trying to prove the Jessops live in the compound where there is rape going on, and the young girls were going to testify, apparently, that the Jessops live there. So CPS could take the baby away.
It was never that he was a rapist– his children aren’t in danger. Yet the state won’t let him live with his wife and children.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 1:17 am #
It was never his option to live with the baby.
That’s the problem, nishi. They’ve taken away 400+ kids.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 1:24 am #
can’t you read maybee?
SAN ANGELO  The state will retain custody of a newborn born to members of a West Texas polygamous sect, attorneys for two sides in the biggest custody battle in state history agreed today.
As part of today’s hearing, the state had planned to call as many as eight girls in CPS custody to testify about the prevalence of underage marriage on the Yearning for Zion Ranch.
This morning’s agreement put a halt to those plans, and thus was seen as a victory of sorts for the followers of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Dan Jessop said he wasn’t eager to hear testimony from one of his younger sisters, who CPS indicated had been forced in 2006 to marry the sect’s prophet, Warren Jeffs.
On Friday, CPS attorneys introduced a series of photographs of Jeffs embracing or kissing three girls who appeared underage, including Jessop’s younger sister. Dan Jessop’s wife, Louisa, indicated that her underage sister-in-law lived on the ranch, and possibly in the building where she and Dan resided.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 1:28 am #
I can read, nishi.
Do you think those girls were going to testify against him, that he was a child rapist?
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 1:31 am #
will remain in state protective custody along with his two older siblings. Their mother, Louisa Bradshaw Jessop, 22, will be permitted to live with her children, under state supervision, at a soon-to-be-chosen residence.
“It’s one step closer to getting my family reunited,” the baby’s father, Dan Jessop, said outside the courtroom.
Here’s the part you snipped out, btw.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 1:43 am #
Do you think those girls were going to testify against him, that he was a child rapist?
no, i think possible that he fakemarried some of them to old dudes.
or witnessed fakeweddings.
the snipped part isn’t relevent to my assertion that Jessop GAVE away custody to avoid having the underage girls testify.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 1:46 am #
“It’s one step closer to getting my family reunited,†the baby’s father, Dan Jessop, said outside the courtroom.
hmm…..now that is just plain stupid.
Jessop vs CPS was supposed to get the baby back.
it seems the agreement just made it one step farther to gettin his family reunited.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 1:52 am #
the snipped part isn’t relevent to my assertion that Jessop GAVE away custody to avoid having the underage girls testify.
But he didn’t have custody, nishi. The baby had already been taken away, as had his older children.
no, i think possible that he fakemarried some of them to old dudes.
or witnessed fakeweddings.
Are you comfortable knowing that a man that is no danger to his children, and has not been charged with a crime, is forced to live away from his babies and wife because he may have *witnessed* a crime?
Is that really how you want things to be?
Comment by guinsPen on 6/1 @ 5:01 am #
still, i hardly think Jeff would aprove.
ishiizonoshiro,
His challenge still stands.
Comment by thor on 6/1 @ 5:05 am #
Thx again to Darleen for her diligent factual discoveries. Keep up the good work. The MSM will truck off into the darkness once the story stales a bit and if you believe, as I do, that the real story is just beginning to be told then it’ll take digging into local sources just to keep abreast.
Social justice isn’t a exclusive purview of the Left. As Dan Collins has proved time and again with his continued support, which I share, of equal parental rights for all, there’s a plenitude of injustices that need to be righted.
Comment by Dale on 6/1 @ 5:16 am #
Darleen,
My heartfelt appreciation for your tenacity and willingness to go into Beldar to defend your position. I’m no black-helicopter-jack-booted-thug type, but why is it that defenders of the 1st amendment go all mushy when it’s for the chirens? We have hypervalued the protection of children to the point where some kids know how to game the system when their parents try to discipline them. (seriously off topic, but what the hell…)
Are there any other links to sites where you’re commenting?
On a side note, going into Beldar after PW is kinda like going to the FLDS compound straight from Vegas! I prefer the weird side where you see people called grass fuckers, one of my favorite insults in a long time.
Comment by datadave on 6/1 @ 6:11 am #
so how would you go after the polygamists. Would you let them just keep doing their criminal actions? Darleen? Give us a clue how’d you do it?
And it does have a lot of similarity to the Waco Branch Dividian’s. Which the Right went to arms over (esp. Timothy McVie).
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 6:16 am #
Step 1: Collect evidence of criminal actions.
They missed that one.
Comment by Dale on 6/1 @ 6:24 am #
Comment by datadave on 6/1 @ 6:11 am #
so how would you go after the polygamists. Would you let them just keep doing their criminal actions?
The same way you would prosecute any other investigation: You gather evidence. You interview suspects and victims and witnesses. You go through the various steps to build a case, make the necessary arrests, and proceed.
But I thought this was about “protecting children?”
Protecting them by grabbing them all, regardless of their or their parents involvement in any crime? I do not believe Darleen is wrong by using Nazi imagery in this case, although it is generally not helpful. But the whole, “Someone did something terrible. I don’t know which ones, but grab them all, disrupt their lives, scare the hell out of them all and we’ll get to the bottom of it…” technique is straight out of the fascist primer book.
Comment by datadave on 6/1 @ 6:25 am #
still, i hardly think Jeff would aprove.
ishiizonoshiro,
His challenge still stands. (what/ a ‘cock-slapping’?)
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 6:33 am #
No, dave. Applying a mushroom bruise isn’t really a challenege, now is it?
I believe Dale is referring to this. And her only response has been this which isn’t a response at all, just a bunch of incoherent ad hom.
Comment by datadave on 6/1 @ 6:33 am #
Darleen is part of this crowd of conservatives accusing “liberals” of being ‘fascists’. Apparently it’s really hard to prove polygamy if single parents are seen in separate houses…even if married in group marriage and there’s been benign neglect in this so the polygamists have grown in population to the point they now can do something as ‘in-your-face’ as this ..Yearning towards Zion ranch temple thing…(which architecturally has elements of Islamic as well as standard Mormon temple styles…ironic that it looks like a Mosque as well as a older Temple of the Utah style (usually more angular and with granite), but this Mosque-like stucco structure is more in tune with Arab styles, curved top windows as opposed to the usually NewEnglandish square ones in Utah) http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-polygamist31-2008may31,0,5459251.story
Comment by guinsPen on 6/1 @ 6:33 am #
No. A week or so ago Jeff specifically challenged ‘zono to state her case coherently. And although she’s self-promoted to PW Bouncer, the challenge still stands.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 6:34 am #
Correction:
DaleguinsPenComment by guinsPen on 6/1 @ 6:36 am #
@ #48
Bingo.
Comment by datadave on 6/1 @ 6:41 am #
jeff?: 7) I don’t know what “cultural stereotype†I reinforce, to be honest with you. ”
(eh, the cock-slapping yucks and bad-ass martial arts gungho….are ‘cultural stereotypical’ not to help nishi, but I think she could shoot down one-seventh of the argument…I am surprised he bothered with so much typing…)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 6:44 am #
1. i repled to Jeff in mail.
2. i have never asked for anyone to leave PW.
3. i just think Darleen might be a little sensitive to what Jeffs brand represents. shes comin off very shrill.
Comment by datadave on 6/1 @ 6:46 am #
dudette. Dan nailed that one. Attention Whore— someone else said. Hey, we’re all guilty.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 6:48 am #
When the shoe fits, dave, we gotta point out who’s wearing it.
(And what the hell, you can’t even use punctuation consistently in a single sentence?)
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 6:49 am #
Pot.
Kettle.
BANG!
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 6:50 am #
Really? Why didn’t you post it here?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 6:51 am #
and at both Volokh and the Pajamafia she tried her OT thread hijackin with Planned Parenthood and the UN.
i think michele catalano said something to her cuz she quit commentin on that thread…..did she darleen?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 6:51 am #
why should i?
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 6:52 am #
You spew everything else here. You were asked here. Why didn’t you? Why don’t you?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 6:54 am #
also, im not finished replyin to Jeff.
I’m waiting for Jim Manzi’s NRO twoparter on the republican war on science to butress my argument.
when im done Jeff can post it if he wants.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 6:57 am #
You can post it if you want. You can start now. Or, you can continue to be the shrill, juvenile fool who got her ass handed to her here.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 6:57 am #
isn’t there a difference from me sayin disagreeable things an linkin my own blog, with darleen operating as a frontpager from PW and linkin PW as part of her rants?
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 6:59 am #
I don’t see where anything Jeff asked you to respond to requires someone else’s as yet unpublished writings.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 7:00 am #
Yes, you’re incoherent. Darleen is not. Plus, she writes in English, so there’s another difference.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 7:15 am #
The problem in this case, nishi, is that you assume that objecting to the violation of someone’s Constitutional rights means defending everything that person has done or is accused of having done.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 7:25 am #
Rob Crawford, darleen accuses the CPS of nefarious motivation including but not limited to, kidnapping, stealing children for sale or forced adoption, etc.
from what I know of Jeff Goldstein he is not a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 7:26 am #
Translation: “I’m waiting on Manzi to make my argument for me.”
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 7:30 am #
I’d say she nailed it on the kidnapping. I dunno about the sale/forced adoption part; I think it’s more likely they’re like you — bigots intent on punishing practitioners of an unpopular religion.
On the gripping hand, regardless of their motives the CPS violated the FLDS members’ rights to due process.
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 7:39 am #
#68. Still racing those goalposts, nuggie? Actually, you evidence so many fallacies at once — virtually never pointing to actual evidence — I’m not at all sure goalpost-moving covers it any more.
Simply: Why are you so staggeringly dishonest?
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 7:42 am #
OK, JHoward. I’ve been wrong about absolutely everything thus far. But let me tell you what’s going to happen, how and why!
Zoom!
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 7:43 am #
#49. I see daterdave still has no point, rattling on about architecture today, having performed some odd free association in these pages yesterday.
Same question, dave: Why are you so dishonest when the offense to civil rights here is so evident, so blatant, so egregious, and so damn harmful to, wait for it, children?
Answer that question or be taken as utterly insincere.
Well, again.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 7:46 am #
Jeff, at #96 on that same thread:
As with the Duke case, I suspect that Jeff would have a serious problem with the government acting against private citizens without compelling evidence of any crimes having been committed.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 7:49 am #
Manzi may convince me the war on science doesn’t exist.
why do you assume he and i agree?
we disagreed on genetic determinism and agreed on expelled.
Manzi is one of the very few remaining rightside intelligentsia.
Jeff is another.
rara avis
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 7:54 am #
/shrug
i doubt Jeff is going to say anything to darleen.
i think it rather rude for her to troll other ppls blogs, present as a conspiracy theorist and hysteric shrew, and link back here.
She is makin ad hom attacks on Walther now.
it dilutes the PW brand.
IJS
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 7:54 am #
Zoom!
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 7:56 am #
Not to be too harsh, nuggie, but your namedropping wears thin. Partly because it’s namedropping.
And partly because the minds you hitch your empty musings to (1) are eventually found to vigorously disagree with rubbish like yours (see Pournelle on this very issue) and (2) surely wouldn’t ever sully their brand with an illiterate liar.
Just saying.
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 7:56 am #
Oh, and zoom!
Comment by JD on 6/1 @ 7:57 am #
The differences are beyond my ability to count. Infinity plus one. The nishit is an amoral twit. Darleen, not so much. The nishit cannot capitalize or punctuate, Darleen knows English. The nishit lies, in every conceivable manner, Darleen not so much.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 7:58 am #
Also I completely fail to get any analogy to the Duke Case.
No court has said there is NO risk to the children, just that the risk was not sufficient for draconian measures.
So the courts do beleive that crimes have been committed.
AFAIK as i know, these 8 underaged girls won’t be going back to the FLDS anytime soon.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 8:00 am #
dr pournelle and i are discussing on this in mail.
we disagree on IDT being taught in schools also.
we can disagree and remain friends.
he doesn’t dictate my thoughts.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 8:01 am #
no court has made the bill of attainder or due process argument, btw.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 8:01 am #
What ruling is that in? Quote please.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 8:02 am #
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 8:12 am #
And: If you had depth, nuggie, you’d see the connection between the statism that occurred in Texas and the fundamentalist religion of “state interests” as instituted by moralists, corrupt legislative interests, various rhetoricians, and socialists (even ostensible rightist socialists.) But you don’t know that back story of ideologies and organizations and profits, all of them deeply intertwined with and reliant on State ways and means that just as willfully discriminate. You don’t know it because you willfully ignore it when it’s spelled out for you. Ask me; ask Pablo. Ask another half-dozen posters here who have gifted you with those facts in the past.
Zoom!
State-as-parent — the CPS’s lovely fourth branch of government — is as much a problem among “conservative” non-thought as it is a mechanism of the monstrous left-leaning social apparatus in this country. I think Darleen’s posts are spot on identifying that anti-constitutional ideology, regardless of political origins, and I commend her for the effort. Meanwhile, I think it’s clear you’re completely on board with anything Orwellian that diminishes the religious fundy establishment, even when it utterly conflicts the Bill of Rights and wrecks innocent people. Add to that the fact you crow about being a griefer and are found to be either completely wrong on points or utterly dishonest in eight of ten of your posts and the picture you paint of yourself is fairly complete.
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 8:15 am #
Do you honestly expect that to fly here?
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 8:16 am #
no twatbrain cannot read even the parts she doesn’t snip
The state will retain custody of a newborn
Dan Jessop never had custody of his newborn. He could have disputed the state at that point and be assured he would never be with is whole family for a least a year or he could agree to leave the children under state custody but live with them immediately, united rather than scattered in the Texas CPS foster prison system.
Let’s see, babies 3 and under to remain in foster care or home with you while you file lawsuits?
No brainer.
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 8:22 am #
Irony much?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 8:29 am #
Do you honestly expect that to fly here?
don’t care.
;)
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 8:32 am #
No surprise there… Think about the following terms: “official misconduct”, “trying the case in the media”, “unpopular defendants”, “blatant lies by officials to bolster their case”.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 8:34 am #
but darleen, jessop vs cps wa about getting the baby back.
jessop caved and let them keep the baby so the court wouldn’t get to hear hear his baby sister’s testimony.
Meanwhile, Texas child welfare authorities said Tuesday they have uncovered more evidence that makes their case of underage marriages and sex abuse at the polygamous sect’s property. That evidence was expected to be made public Tuesday at a court hearing over a 14-day-old baby, but a last-minute deal was struck.
“I understand y’all have reached a tentative agreement,” Judge Barbara Walther said after a 2 1/2-hour delay, so lawyers could negotiate behind closed doors.
Dan Jessop and his wife Louisa Bradshaw (Jessop) signed a deal that gives the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services sole conservatorship over the baby.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 8:36 am #
i guess i should link darleens comments for jeff.
i think she quite embarassed herself.
;)
tah for now.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 8:37 am #
wait…..there are a lot more parallels with the Rights embrace of the Schiavo lunacy than with Duke.
think about that JHoward.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 8:41 am #
Oh fer the love of …
I didn’t present a “conspiracy” theory… I snarked and clearly labeled it so.
I don’t believe there was a conspiracy. I do believe the mindset of the CPS, as evidenced by the third-party, eye-witness, written declarations of the mental health professionals clearly demonstrates that the welfare of these women and children was/is NOT the CPS first priority.
I cannot get out of my head the scene after the women were removed from Ft. Concho, the children left to fend for themselves, a weeping 3 year old wandering around begging someone to pick him up and rock him, being followed by two CPS workers with clipboards writing about his behavior. They were treating him as if he were a fascinating piece of bacteria, not a terrified child.
There IS evidence of child abuse. What CPS visited upon the children.
That is unconscionable and I hope legally actionable. Texas CPS should be investigated by the Feds.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 9:01 am #
Ummmm…no. With Schaivo, the people you’re talking about wanted the law ignored/upended/changed for a particular case because of their feelings about the players. So unless you’re comparing that with your position here, there is no comparison at all. Is that what you’re doing?
Comment by serr8d on 6/1 @ 9:04 am #
Nishi…
I would rather read a thousand pages of Darleen’s essays before another simplistic paragraph of your prittle-prattle-bibble-babble.
You’ve nothing, Nishi, but teenybopper smart-aleckiness. Until you lose your fake already-cockslapped leering style of close-minded mockery, there’s nothing more you can add to any thread that’s not something anyone who’s unfortunate to have read your crap before can’t repeat by rote.
At your age, you should not be so entrenched. Again, you are not scientist-material; you’ve absolutely zero objectivity.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 9:26 am #
Dunno. She’s the perfect model of a politicized scientist — she made her conclusion, and now she’s going to argue it until everyone else gives up and goes home.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 9:27 am #
and just for record
In the Schiavo case my argument was never made on the legalities, it was made on the morals. I deplored a mindset that let the law, in the absense of a living will, default to euthanasia rather than to life.
The judge in that case had the legal right to make the decision that way. It was a morally reprehensible decision, but it was a legal one.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 9:42 am #
it also should be noted that twatbrain ducks anything evidence that doesn’t fit her narrative; hence, she has never addressed the testimony of the mental health professionals, even as it has been pointed out to her several times.
Yes, she operates like all junk scientists.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 9:48 am #
I suspect that has more to do with her not really caring for the fate of the children outside of using them as a weapon against the “polygs”.
Comment by SGT Ted on 6/1 @ 10:00 am #
“As to my issue of the apparent hypocrisy of the raid, I should address the fact that I am originally from the Texas-Mexico border and spent a number of years working out in thew “Colonias” of Laredo prior to my tenure with Hill Country. During my time working in the Colonias and my own personal experiences, I have personally known of a good number of children as young as 11 bearing children fathered by older men as well as by teenagers. I find it strange that, at least these communities in which I am speaking, the Colonias have not been the subject of large raids under the apparent stance that the CPS has taken on the Yearning for Zion compound and its residence.”
Maybe if the FLDS guys just claim to be poor Mexicans, doing the jobs that Americans won’t do, they can gain some political popularity and clout.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 10:06 am #
Darleen: I read the accounts. The fact that the state behaved atrociously does not, in my opinion, negate the strong possibility that these people are lying, child abusing crudballs.
Like I said, I have no sympathy. They are presumed innocent by law until proven guilty. That doesn’t mean I am going to shed tears for the disgusting freaks. They are probably doing exactly what they are suspected of doing. But if the state can’t prove it, by law they can’t be fucked with.
Shit, they couldn’t find enough evidence to convict OJ and take his kids away from him. But that does not mean I am going to expend energy weeping over how innocent and ill done he was by the state. These freaks are good people done wrong. They are disgusting freaks done wrong.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 10:12 am #
Lisa
Which of those women are the disgusting freaks? The FLDS women in Ft Concho who never raised their voices to the CPS workers, or the CPS workers who abused them and their children?
Comeon Lisa … how is Lori Jessop a “disgusting” freak worthy of having her children taken from her forever? What crime did she commit?
It’s real easy to hate a group, call ‘em freaks and monsters, it gets a little dicey when you find out there are individuals involved.
Gimme a list, Lisa. Which are the freaks and which are just people who are “textbook parents”.
Comment by B Moe on 6/1 @ 10:17 am #
What crime did she commit?
She allowed herself to be raped, Darleen. Maybe Lisa is following nishfongs Muslim example and punishing the victims of rape.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 10:26 am #
Link.
Polygamy? Underage marriage? Child abuse? Where is it, aside from at the hands of CPS?
Comment by The Lost Dog on 6/1 @ 10:33 am #
“It’s like watching a retarded puppy try to fuck a vacuum cleaner.”
Or a retarded fan trying to blow the vacuum cleaner.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 10:35 am #
You know the old chestnut about evil prevailing when good men (or in this case women) do nothing…
These are people who not only watch and condone child rape (even if they themselves are not doing it) but embrace it as a tenet of their faith. We slam a politician for sitting in the pulpit for 20 years while a pastor spewed bile….but we give a free pass to a bunch of bitches who sat around ALL THEIR LIVES watching little girls get trotted off to old geezers for some Fucking in the Name of Jesus? That is what our legal system calls a conspiracy to commit a crime. And if someone thinks that it is okay if their neighbors marry off their nine year to a 50 year old (and even bakes a damned casserole for the wedding celebration)….I can see how that might make the authorities wonder about their fitness to be a parent.
But, like I said earlier. If it can’t be proven it can’t be proven. Let ‘em go and leave them alone . But don’t expect my sympathy. They are freaks.
Freakish, freaky, freaks.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 10:38 am #
Pablo
I just mapquested the distance between San Antonio and Gonzales – 74.34 miles.
CPS put a 2 and 4 year old in a SHELTER over an hours’ drive away! And the parents had to go to court to be able to see them DAILY.
fuck Texas CPS
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 10:46 am #
Shorter Lisa
BURN THEM ALL!
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 10:49 am #
Jaysus, Lisa, listen to yourself after all the evidence that there were monogamous couples, within 3 years of age of each other, who you want to DIE DIE DIE.
And even CPS was forced to admit in court that NO CHILD RAPING had taken place. The only 9 y/o married to an old geezer was Aisha.
When are you raiding the homes of every teen girl sporting a hijab?
Comment by McGehee on 6/1 @ 10:50 am #
How fortunate, then, that only disgusting freaks ever suffer at the hands of an out-of-control child-protective-services system.
Oh, wait…
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 10:51 am #
CPS is arguing that the FLDS practiced systemic, institutionalized child abuse.
The FLDS and their lawyers will argue that the abuse was perpetrated by random, rogue sect members that present no danger the general population of children.
We all make choices in life. These Jessops (not to be confused with the Dan Jessops, the brother and sisterinlaw of the 12 yearold mrs. jeffs) chose to affiliate themselves with FLDS, for good or ill.
The Joseph Jessops got their children back.
The Dan Jessops didn’t.
why?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 10:59 am #
Reading Nishi’s semiliterate gurglings, I’m nauseated to realize that there will always be enough automatons to slip on the crisp brown shirt and work the valves of the showers.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 11:00 am #
the twatbrain doesn’t realize that the Joseph’s got back their children the same as the Dan’s … They are all still under CPS supervision.
and twatbrain is still a member of the childmurdering Muhammadians, for good or ill.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 11:02 am #
You are profoundly delusion if you think those 8 underaged girls are going to testify that no childraping occurred.
The courts are not arguing that no child abuse occurred….they are arguing about which children the abusers present a threat to.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 11:02 am #
We slam a politician for sitting in the pulpit for 20 years while a pastor spewed bile….but we give a free pass to a bunch of bitches who sat around ALL THEIR LIVES watching little girls get trotted off to old geezers for some Fucking in the Name of Jesus?
I don’t want any of these people to be the leader of this nation, Lisa.
My main concern is that CPS seems to take the position that taking children away from their parents is a pro-children action to take. I think, especially when children are too young to understand, that taking them away from their parents is more damaging than the chance at some point 10 years hence they may be married off to some geezer.
CPS had time to slow down and do this right. No babies are in immediate danger in that compound– or at least they’ve not presented proof they are.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 11:03 am #
always the resort to ad homs, straw men and thread jacking, darleen.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 11:03 am #
You are profoundly delusion if you think those 8 underaged girls are going to testify that no childraping occurred.
The courts are not arguing that no child abuse occurred….they are arguing about which children the abusers present a threat to.
Exactly. And you know who they are definitely not a threat to? Anyone under 12. Certainly not a week old baby.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 11:05 am #
So, do I understand that Nishi is justifying the kidnapping of 452 children because the other 8 may have been abused?
I’m hoping my neighbors are taking good care of their kids…
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 11:06 am #
ps. not saying “exactly” to the profoundly delusional part. I think Darleen has done a great job advocating a previously unpopular position.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 11:06 am #
Maybee and the Texas supreme court concurr.
For 124 children, the risk did not outweigh the damages of separating them from their mothers.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 11:07 am #
Lisa, stop slammin muslims… we r the demographic inevitability
You realize that you’re following a guy who married a six year-old, and fucked her at nine, right?
Comment by nobody on 6/1 @ 11:12 am #
Darleen hasn’t had to really think about much her entire life. She just “knows” things because it’s easier that way.
I’ll also note that, as a collective, the proteinwisdom commenters have been invariably WRONG about most every subject presented here – the war, Bush, Libby, the US attorneys, etc… Thus, I’m pretty sure the fever dreams Darleen is crapping into the internet have little basis in reality and zero predictive value regarding future events.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 11:13 am #
And yet those children aren’t home now, nishi.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 11:14 am #
#119: Right Maybee. There is no evidence. So I say let them go and let these families reunite and get on with their lives. CPS has no business having their mitts on these kids when the state has NO CASE that is even remotely prosecutable. I totally agree.
But the FLDS is still a bunch of disgusting freaks. I don’t believe for a minute there are any “normal” motherfuckers in that freakcult.
I think Darleen has gone over from “This is a terrible miscarriage of justice.” to “These people are as wholesome as the family of Laura Ingalls Wilder! They are really nice and wear modest clothing!”
Maybe some are not as freakish as others, but to live in a freakcult where polygamy and child-bride arrangements are normal is not exactly a page out of Ann of Green Gables.
Advocating that the CPS and state prosecutors be punished for being scumbags is one thing…becoming a champion for freaks is another.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 11:16 am #
No, I agree with the TSC’s decision.
But I understand the position of the CPS in taking all the children.
Because the mothers were not cooperating in identifying the children.
Usually CPS uses legal marriage and birth certificates to determine parentage.
In this case there were proportionately few legal marriages plus lying and deliberate misdirection.
The DNA testing was ordered to determine parentage.
However, it will likely be used as evidence in childrape trials.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 11:18 am #
#123: So maybe all of this is a practice run for the future United States of Child Brides and Goat Afficionados?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 11:22 am #
Maybee, the judge is not in contempt.
I expect the 124 will be returned.
I was wrong myself about Texas just wanting the FLDS to go back to Utah.
The flight risk requires additional surety i think.
It looks to me like Texas is planning on prosecuting childrapists starting with warren jeffs.
They took a DNA sample from him last Friday.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 11:23 am #
#130: Nish, they don’t even have a case for childrape. You have to have a case before you collect evidence. Isn’t that what we on the left have been championing for well…forever?!?!?
You cannot just grab someone and hold them until you figure out something to charge them with. And grabbing their dependent children is an end run around the 4th and 8th amendments. That is not how we do things in this country – even to freaks like the FLDS.
Comment by B Moe on 6/1 @ 11:24 am #
stop slammin muslims… we r the demographic inevitability
If nishfong is indicative of unrestrained Muslim women, I understand why the men stick a sack on their heads and stick them in a closet.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 11:26 am #
Lisa
Do you despise all criminal defense attorneys? Are they officers of the court providing a Constitutional right or are they advocates of eeeevvvilllll?
I’ve ten years in the DA office AND know and admire many defense attorneys.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 11:26 am #
Some of the mothers and fathers have voluntarily given DNA samples.
It would be interesting to know if the state has subpoenaed samples from any nonvolunteers.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 11:29 am #
#133 exactly
CPS used the children as hostages, to try to get frustrating parents to comply.
They could have asked the state for something like obstruction of justice charges against the parents. Instead, they took little kids away from their parents to try to get parents to testify.
Maybee, the judge is not in contempt.
I expect the 124 will be returned.
I don’t care if she isn’t in contempt, nishi. Those children should be home. They should never have been taken, and the judge dragging her feet is contemptible. She is punishing icky parents by hurting children.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 11:30 am #
Nishi, are you really going to defend a state action whereby its agents hold peoples’ children hostage until they agree to let the state root around in their private affairs until they can find something to charge them with?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 11:31 am #
Lisa, unreporting witness to a felony is a crime in Texas. Giving false identification is a crime. Performing fakemarriage involving minors is a crime. Of course statutory rape is a crime.
We haven’t seen all the evidence Texas is holding.
The Jeffs childbride pictures just came out last week.
The testimony of the 8 underaged girls has not been given yet.
I expect it will be.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 11:32 am #
Some of the mothers and fathers have voluntarily given DNA samples.
Beyond idiotic. It’s like arguing that shopkeepers “voluntarily” paid the mafia protection money because, after all, the Cosa Nostra’s leg breakers never laid a hand on them.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 11:32 am #
#135: Not sure what you are getting at there, Darleen. I think I am agreeing with you that the state is wrong as hell here. I am just saying that that does not make the FLDS into non-freaks. They are still freaks. But they are Americans have constitutional protections. I don’t believe anyone should falsely imprison them or their children just because they are freaks.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 11:32 am #
#130
nishi is still trotting out the “mothers were not cooperating” garbage that has been demonstrated, time and again, as false. CPS rejected birth certificates and ID as “faked” – and what a co-inky-dink that such a strategy enabled them to leak to the press they had 31 underage minors preggers or moms!
Imagine the odds!
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 11:36 am #
We haven’t seen all the evidence Texas is holding.
CPS is withholding evidence from the Court?
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 11:36 am #
nish #139- Then gather evidence of those crimes and charge the parents with those crimes. In this country, we do not take people’s young children away from home as a way to force the adults testify about a crime they may have witnessed.
I know you see that. I know you do.
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 11:38 am #
Impressive, Lisa. You know what, of all the irrational sniping going on in these threads, I’d argue a strong case for yours being the most, well, abnormal. You know, freakishly so.
Observe:
Link? Reference? Quotes? Anything?
Meanwhile, evidence of willful CPS and court misdeed is thick, as well as predictable and traditional. Lisa, should this entire thread then disappear, or is that — the rather significant issue of American statism, the one resembling the entire global history of too much irresponsible statist power and not enough private recourse — actually a significant concern, that being a large part, as I read it, of Darleen’s overall point?
I happen to know a little about the ideology and the practice of social policy and procedure in the US as of late. It is a fourth branch of unelected, unaccountable, unconstitutional government — did you know family courts are juryless? That edicts proceed from them, unbeholden to any semblance of constitutionality? Ever try to cite your fundamental rights in family court, Lisa? I happen to think that what CPS and the court did here is a microcosm of the entire ruthless social government wherein the State habitually conflicts private, civil rights.
So. Either metaphorically or literally, we can burn ‘em alive when they don’t comply or even when they resemble your worst (freakish!) nightmares. But you tell me what is the greater hazard, a few hundred insulated citizens or millions of federalized social policy makers, officials, unaccountables, and other tools with nearly ten trillion dollars in annual budgets behind them on their way to seeing if there’s anything they don’t happen to like about you.
I’m not sure I see any evidence that a single soul here advocates gross, illegal, perverted behavior, Lisa. You, on the other hand, ooze this blind, obscene rage about something you can’t even document.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 11:38 am #
I know you see that. I know you do.
She does. That’s what makes her defense of CPS’s actions all the more vile.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 11:40 am #
Lisa
I could never live in a FLDS lifestyle. Nor a moslem one. I feel sorry for the little girls I see everyday at the local public school dressed so only their hands and faces show — long sleeves and hajibs even on days when its over 100 degrees here.
But that doesn’t make their parents “bad”. Sooner or later, each one will make a decision to stay or leave. The hurtful practice of shunning may even be a part of the leave taking (see what Jehovah’s Witness’s do) but you know, the government is NOT charged with taking all the pain and hurt out of our lives.
It IS charged with not unnecessarily inflicting it. What happened at Ft Concho was wrong. If I could, I’d investigate each individual CPS worker involved at that prison barracks and give jail sentences to those proven abusive (like the two clipboard carriers who ignored the well being of a terrified 3 y/o).
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 11:41 am #
#139: You sound like Sean Hannity in the run-up to the Iraq war: “I am sure that the Important People Who Know Things must know that there is evidence of something>/i> – let’s just trust the people who know things that we don’t know…” I love ya Nish but I disagree strongly with you here.
I am not going to trust the state on this one (or anything else, for that matter). They are using John Woo-ish reasoning why they need to ignore the Constitution (these people are REALLY bad so they get less rights!). It is smelly. I dont like it.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 11:49 am #
#145: You spend a long time barking up the wrong tree. Good on you.
I think they are freaks – I made that very clear.
I think they are being wronged and the constitution is being subverted to punish them. The state doesn’t even have a shred of a case against them and their kids have been snatched from them in some dirty-assed attempt to slither around the 4th amendment. I think I have been pretty clear on that as well.
I don’t have to have fond feelings about a group of people to advocate for their constitutional rights.
What about that is abnormal? Or are you just being stupid for the sake of argument?
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 11:52 am #
Do I really have to spell it out for you, Lisa?
The State is abusing more children more grotesquely than a decade of life inside the compound ever could. And the State is doing so illegally, at least when you consider the Bill of Rights.
Intelligent enough for you?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 11:53 am #
Lisa, I understand your thrust and think it’s an admirable stand. It’s too easy to turn one’s head to state abuse when one finds the target to be unsympathetic. Thank you.
I do understand JHoward’s point about family court abuses, too.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 11:57 am #
#147: True. And I can bet money that there are some Muslim kids up in Michigan living worse lives than the FLDS cult kids could ever imagine. At some point this country is going to have to take a hard look at how much religious freedom it can really grant its citizens when they are doing nasty stuff.
And I am with you in hoping that they do investigate every last CPS worker involved in this case. But somehow, I doubt they will. They will cry about them being underpaid and overworked and then get on with business as usual – maybe they will even get a raise out of this.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:00 pm #
by law the Judge is only required to hold “sincere belief” that a crime has been committed to order warrants.
who says the state is rooting around? they may be preparing arrest warrants.
Maybee, that is your opinion.
you are entitled.
CPS’ prime directive to protect children.
They were executing on it as they saw fit.
The TCS disagreed, but mandated no timestamp for return.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 12:04 pm #
#150: I agree with you that the state is abusing the children horribly. And they have unconstitutionally seized and held these children in a manner that would make a South American dictator raise his eyebrows. We agree. But we don’t agree on our personal feelings about the FLDS. Okay.
#151: Thank you. I appreciate the clarification/mediation.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 12:06 pm #
#150: I agree with you that the state is abusing the children horribly. And they have unconstitutionally seized and held these children in a manner that would make a South American dictator raise his eyebrows. We agree. But we don’t agree on our personal feelings about the FLDS.
#151: Thank you. I appreciate the clarification/mediation.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 12:07 pm #
Woops….double post spasm! Sorry!
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:08 pm #
The state doesn’t even have a shred of a case against them
again, your opinion.
if that was true, the TSC would ruled differently, right?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:12 pm #
Lisa, the state has enough evidence that Dan Jessop let CPS keep his baby rather than hear testimony from from 8 underaged girls including his younger sister.
It is a darleen-fantasy that the state has no evidence.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 12:12 pm #
At some point this country is going to have to take a hard look at how much religious freedom it can really grant its citizens when they are doing nasty stuff.
There’s some major grade scary in there, Lisa. Religious freedom is an enumerated Constitutional right. Any restriction has to pass strict scrutiny.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 12:13 pm #
#158 nishi
repeating over and over again your delusions make it no more true than the first time.
Comment by B Moe on 6/1 @ 12:14 pm #
Or are you just being stupid for the sake of argument?
She is being stupid because that is what she is.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:16 pm #
you may argue about how the state acquired the evidence, but you cannot that the state has no evidence.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 12:16 pm #
if that was true, the TSC would ruled differently, right?
No.
You are begging the question, nishi.
If there was no rape at Duke, Nifong couldn’t have gotten an indictment, right?
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 12:18 pm #
Which is fine. I merely find the language contrasting them and their tormentors out of balance. The other appropriate chestnut has to do with releasing ten guilty men before jailing one. Men, Lisa; men. Here over four hundred children were raped of their security and childhoods so as to allege what appear to be relatively minor crimes — some even misdemeanors — against a handful. And still the state won’t back down.
Of the offenses here — those of the FLDS itself contrasted against those of the state of Texas — the latter is an order of magnitude more egregious.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:19 pm #
darleen, im afraid you are delusional if you think there is no evidence.
TCS didn’t say there was no evidence..they said the risk was insufficient.
Comment by Lisa on 6/1 @ 12:19 pm #
#157: No, they actually don’t. And we don’t act on super-secret John Woo evidence in state cases. This is not some secret FISA court thing. There is a certain amount of disclosure that has to happen to insure that there isn’t false imprisonment. You are putting WAY too much trust in the state on this, Nish. I am revoking your liberal card. I feel the same way you do about this creepy cult. But I also care about illegal search, seizure, and false imprisonment. And I am not willing to give Texas a pass on this.
I have to go take my mom to get a new flat-screen TV now (she wants to watch Dancing With the Stars and Wheel of Fortune in high def). Good conversation, as always. See you later folks.
Comment by B Moe on 6/1 @ 12:20 pm #
you may argue about how the state acquired the evidence, but you cannot that the state has no evidence.
Bullfuckingshit, nishfong. It is a theory of yours that the state has evidence, nothing more. The state CPS says it has evidence, and you conjecture they have evidence, but nobody has shown any evidence. Until they do, as far as I am concerned no evidence exists.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:21 pm #
JHoward, this is the American way.
Beldar says CPS is is not liable for prosecution.
Judges cannot be.
JHoward, do you believe that CPS will prosecuted?
I don’t.
Comment by DELETED on 6/1 @ 12:22 pm #
***Note from Darleen: Listen, if you want to make fun of a commenter, go ahead. Even create fake names, but don’t pretend to be that person.
You forget I can see you IP address and I now know what other name you comment on around here. Clone a person’s name again, even a twatwaffle’s like nishi, and I’ll reveal you.
Your other comments are gone from my threads***
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:23 pm #
but nobody has shown any evidence.
to you.
no one saw the jeffs pics either until they were used as evidence in the Jessop vs Texas case last week.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 12:25 pm #
Bye, Lisa, thanks. Tell your mom she’ll be able to see the cleavage-enhancing body makeup on DWTS in high-def. Makes life worth living again, imo.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 12:26 pm #
nishi- have any adults been charged on the basis of this super secret evidence?
Comment by B Moe on 6/1 @ 12:27 pm #
JHoward, this is the South-American way.
FTFY.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 12:28 pm #
i don’t have a liberal card, Lisa.
and my neocon card got revoked too.
you know the other side of the looking class is just as whack as this one.
when i said i was going to jump ship from the repubs the Derb asked where i was going to jump to.
i guess, no man’s land.
Comment by JHoward on 6/1 @ 12:30 pm #
You really don’t deserve a serious reply, nuggie. But suits may have already been filed against hundreds of counties for similar rights violations, albeit by single litigant-survivors of family court. It seems a small and more pragmatic step to sue CPS right out of their shoes.
Comment by B Moe on 6/1 @ 12:32 pm #
but nobody has shown any evidence.
to you.
Then I can question the existence of any evidence in good faith, especially given how many times the CPS story has changed. The key phrase there is good faith. I realize it is an alien concept to you, but you really should study up on it.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 12:32 pm #
It’s nice to see that our little ‘nobody’ up there making declarations is completely immune to the facts of the case and the rulings of the higher courts. Otherwise, I might be concerned about anything it has to say.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 12:33 pm #
Beldar says CPS is is not liable for prosecution
Link?
BTW, maybe Beldar hasn’t had time to study Michael C. v. Gresbach. Violations of 4th amendment rights negate qualified immunity.
If criminal suits aren’t brought against individual CPS workers, maybe Federal civil rights suits and unlawful detainer suits will be.
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 12:48 pm #
CPS said they had 30 some underage/pregnant mothers. THAT would be evidence. Turns out that they, like the 16 yo abuse victim that precipitated this, do not exist. What evidence does exist?
Comment by nobody on 6/1 @ 1:00 pm #
It’s nice to see that our little ‘nobody’ up there making declarations is completely immune to the facts of the case and the rulings of the higher courts. Otherwise, I might be concerned about anything it has to say.
The facts of the case? We don’t know them. Darleen thinks her super grandmother powers give her the ability to determine when polygamist scum are NOT fucking underage girls. We’ll see but as I said – you guys have a pretty bad record.
Comment by B Moe on 6/1 @ 1:02 pm #
Darleen thinks her super grandmother powers give her the ability to determine when polygamist scum are NOT fucking underage girls.
If your reading and comprehension skills were a little better you might not be such a nobody.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates - UMBA on 6/1 @ 1:03 pm #
Darleen thinks her super grandmother powers give her the ability to determine when polygamist scum are NOT fucking underage girls.
Link to Darleen saying this?
Oh, right: you’re a clumsy liar.
Have a nice day.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 1:05 pm #
I thought the Constitution was the primary law in the US.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 1:07 pm #
Sure I can. No one has been charged, as yet, despite the amount of time that has passed. Not even a grand jury indictment, which would be easy enough to get.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 1:09 pm #
Usually in the United States individuals are persumed innocent and the parent/child relationship is considered a fundamental right that only extraordinary circumstances can sever.
Cardinal Roger Mahoney has been shown to have helped coverup the scandal involving priest sexually molesting underage teenage boys. However, the Cathedral of Our Lady of Angels remains packed for mass every Sunday. I suppose for some, each congregant should be assumed to fucking their underage boys
because of the belief system!
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 1:09 pm #
Good, Lord. That has got to be the vilest thing I’ve ever read.
Comment by MayBee on 6/1 @ 1:12 pm #
ps. I admit my misuse of the term ‘begging the question’. Take my kids away, why don’t you.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 1:16 pm #
OK, WTF? I’ve tried to post this twice, but it hasn’t worked. Apparently the site doesn’t like the link…
OK, someone needs to ‘fess up. Who’s been posting crap like comment #169 as nishi? It’s one thing to make obvious joke comments, but putting that kind of spew into the mouth of a regular commenter is beyond the pale.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/1 @ 1:21 pm #
ha ha, Rob, I hadn’t noticed. but yeah, that’s bad form.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates - UMBA on 6/1 @ 1:21 pm #
I am revoking your liberal card.
Lisa, nishi isn’t any kind of liberal. Nor is she a conservative, a libertarian, a Platonist, or whatever else she might claim to be next week.
She is a fascist. She sees absolutely nothing wrong with arbitrary government power, as long as she’s the one calling the shots.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 1:50 pm #
What evidence does exist?
A picture of Warren Jeffs smiling as he hugs three girls.
Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go kill my father-in-law. I have several pictures of him hugging my daughter whilst smiling, meaning he must be fucking her.
Comment by DELETED on 6/1 @ 1:55 pm #
****note from Darleen:
last warning. No more cloning***
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 1:57 pm #
#185 Rob
Thanks for pointing that out. I’ve taken care of the problem.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 2:00 pm #
LINK
Muhammed was a polygmist and a pedophile, QED. We’ll be siccing the CPS authorities on your cult soon, Nishi.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 2:15 pm #
Here’s some more evidence for you babyraper apologists. ;)
Evidence–from the cult itself–of underage “spiritual marriages.â€Â
Bishop’s list
Because “spiritual marriages†are not legal–to avoid the polygamy charges– every person you see there who is under 18 and listed as wife is evidence.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/1 @ 2:21 pm #
BECAUSE NISHFONG DECLARES IT SO!!!!
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 2:21 pm #
Nishi, age of consent in Texas is 17, not 18. I’ve scanned about half the document you linked and saw one who was listed as 16. So:
A – why hasn’t the guy been arrested and charged and
B – why are children being held hostage by CPS?
Comment by B Moe on 6/1 @ 2:27 pm #
Because “spiritual marriages†are not legal–to avoid the polygamy charges
Wasn’t nishfong arguing the other day that polygamy couldn’t be outlawed because of the spiritual marriage loophole? Has beldar made a new ruling on this or some shit?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 2:31 pm #
My wife works with a gal who is screwing a married guy. The gal has two kids by the guy. The guy’s wife knows about it.
Do I hotline this polygamous arrangement, Nish?
Comment by Jeffersonian on 6/1 @ 2:32 pm #
Related
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 2:48 pm #
What if the “spiritual marriages” just amount to arranged marriages? I have no idea if it’s the case, but if it’s just a commitment that so-and-so will marry what’s-his-name once she reaches legal age, what can be done about it?
I despise the idea either way, but I think it points out that it’s risky to make accusations — and probably impossible to get convictions — based on documents alone.
Comment by Darleen on 6/1 @ 2:54 pm #
Let’s not forget that “fake” or “spiritual” marriages take place everyday in all manner of churches
Gay people call them “commitment ceremonies.”
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 6:48 pm #
200!
hahahahaha
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 7:32 pm #
I see 4 16 year olds and one 17 year old listed as wife. Texas law allows marriage at 16 with parental consent. Are these girls really married? If so, and their parents consented, it’s legal.
So, once again, where’s the evidence of criminality?
Comment by Pablo on 6/1 @ 7:39 pm #
YOU don’t know them, nobody. Some of us have been following the blow by blow reportage from the hearings, reading the rulings and following the extrajudicial coverage.
Speak for yourself nitwit.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 7:39 pm #
polygamy is not marriage, even with parental consent.
unless those girls have a wedding license issued by the state, they are the victims of childfakemarriage and statutory rape.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/1 @ 7:42 pm #
pablo, u should see my comment to JHoward ^o^
it left him speechless!
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/1 @ 9:11 pm #
That you’re both breathtakingly dishonest and stupid is not something to crow about.
Comment by Pablo on 6/2 @ 3:51 am #
Are they multiples? It doesn’t say whose wives they are. Do you know or are you pulling conclusions out of your ass again? Very sciencey.
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