Yesterday, I noted that the story behind Celeste Fremon’s piece in the Huffington Post – reporting Hillary Clinton’s derogatory comments about MoveOn and the “activist base” of the Democratic party — might be as interesting as the story itself:
The sudden appearance of the Fremon piece makes me almost as curious about what goes on behind closed doors at the HuffPo and OffTheBus as what goes on at Democratic fundraisers. OTB’s co-publisher, Jay Rosen, is an advocate for media transparency, whether it is at the New York Times or his own PressThink. Indeed, Rosen posted a lengthy backstory of Fowler’s OTB piece. Perhaps he will do the same to answer the obvious questions raised about the Fremon piece.
Via the Taylor Marsh website, we now have as close as we are likely to get from Rosen:
This piece was published by the Huffington Post, not OffTheBus. The editorial product–from headline, to the story as written, to the way it was framed and promoted–was in their hands. I saw it when it was released to the Web.
In that sense, it is not our story. It is our person–a volunteer contributor–who obtained the tape and did the story for Huffington Post. OffTheBus editors Marc Cooper and Amanda Michel were not the decision-makers and they did not edit the story. Comparisons to the style we used for Mayhill Fowler can be made, as long as you realize that it is not the same people making those decisions, or the same section of the Huffington Post. The Huffington Post employs editors and reporters and they took this on.
Compare the presentation on the page and you can see what I mean. Fremon’s piece is the product of the politics section of the Huffington Post. Mayhill’s piece is the editorial product of OffTheBus.
I am not saying we had nothing to do with it, however.
The connections to OffTheBus are three: 1.) the writer, Celeste Fremon, is part of the OffTheBus network and thus came from our pool of people; 2.) I am sure the huge public attention that Mayhill’s story got played a role in this fundraiser tape emerging; and 3.) we cooperated with Huffington Post in the sense of turning the writer and tape over to their staff, which would mean politics editor Nico Pitney, editor Roy Sekoff and editor in chief Arianna Huffington.
Thus, at the bottom it says, “This story was developed in cooperation with OffTheBus to which reporter Celeste Fremon is a regular contributor.” It also ran in our section because Fremon is an OffTheBus-er, though almost no one accessed it that way. Instead they got there through the front page.
I do not know where the tape came from or how it was gotten. Had it been our story I would have had to consider that and all the other decisions to which you refer. As it happened, I was alerted Friday afternoon that the Huffington Post was going to do a story based on a tape that had surfaced from one of our contributors. That meant they would do it in their way. I found out what Hillary said when I read the story online.
Though Rosen asks people to compare the two posts — one with an OTB banner, one without — he does not account for the fact that the Fremon story was the top story on the OTB sub-site, under the OTB banner. Perhaps Rosen has no power over that. After all, he is only the co-publisher of OTB. Nor does he explain why OTB ran the Fremon piece based solely on her status as an OTB-er, if OTB had no editorial input.
Rosen’s claim that OTB “cooperated with Huffington Post in the sense of turning the writer and tape over to their staff,” combined with his claim that he “was alerted Friday afternoon that the Huffington Post was going to do a story based on a tape that had surfaced from one of our contributors” again raise more questions than they answer. For example, was anyone at OTB aware of Fremon’s story before Friday afternoon? Did OTB pass on the story or was Rosen presented with a fait accompli?
The amusing part is that the person who grilled Rosen and Fremon on these questions is none other than Paul Lukasiak. Yes, the man who satrted the Bush AWOL project, but was left flailing about in the wake of RatherGate. If it did not reflect poorly on a regular PW commenter, I would call this an example of a Lefty ouroboros.
Comment by MayBee on 4/20 @ 8:21 am #
I’m enjoying following the story over there. It is amazing to me how the new media becomes like the old media becomes like the people they cover.
Comment by Big Bang Hunter (pumping you up) on 4/20 @ 8:37 am #
- Perhaps I’m a bit slow on the uptake, owing to the nature of Sunday mornings, ect., but for the paste eaters in the crowd, might you frame the “events” surrounding this “make-a-story” in a condensed way? Assuming we’re not simply observing without comment.
- BTW – Anyone involved in the scripting of any aspect of RatherGate (which I was in on deconstructing from ground zero), represents the worst of “partisan creative journalism”, with the emphasis on creative.
Comment by Big Bang Hunter (pumping you up) on 4/20 @ 8:47 am #
- Also BTW, if you ecer care to post on the aftermath of the entire “RatherGate” affair, what we know for sure, what there is some evidence of, and what we surmised from the fallout and later actions, words, and deeds of the usual suspects, I will happily supply you my notes, such as they are, as a start point, including pertinent emails between Ardolino and the rest of us.
Comment by Torbole on 4/20 @ 9:33 am #
Move On is garbage. She won’t say they are?
Comment by Torbole on 4/20 @ 9:34 am #
Moderating again?
Comment by Topsecretk9 on 4/20 @ 11:29 am #
I am hoping Karl takes up Comment by Big Bang Hunter (pumping you up) on 4/20 @ 8:47 am #
Comment by Topsecretk9 on 4/20 @ 11:34 am #
The back and forth in the comments are hilarious — they’ve out macacca’d themselves and are freaking out!
Comment by MayBee on 4/20 @ 11:46 am #
I’ll give it a go, but when Karl comes along, he’ll do a better job.
Off the Bus was to be a political “citizen reporter” endeavor that would challenge the standard political reporting by getting to the important things, not the packaged information the candidates want you to know about. It was a joint project between Jay Rosen and Arianna Huffington.
It has it’s own Off the Bus page, linked at The Huffington Post, and carries the Huffington Post banner as well as the Off the Bus banner.
Obama’s “bitter” comments were recorded by an Off the Bus citizen journalist. It was a long, painful process to determine whether she should report it, considering Huffington Post is pro-Obama. When they finally did report it on Off the Bus, the author Mayfield Fowler was attacked by many on the left (including most at Huffington Post) for damaging their candidate.
This week, a Huffington Post reporter received a tape recording of Hillary Clinton criticizing Move On. Or seemingly doing so, because the tape was edited. This story was published as a Huffington Post story, but was also carried as the top story on Off the Bus.
Now critics are saying, Off the Bus, you went against your standards and are publishing the same old crap. You have no evidence this edit represents what Hillary really said, and you won’t report where it came from or who recorded it. You just did this to counteract the criticism of the Mayfield Fowler piece.
Jay Rosen is saying “No! No! This wasn’t an Off the Bus story. It was just written by an Off the Bush reporter and splashed across the top of the Off the Bus website. But I don’t disavow this story.”
See?
Comment by MayBee on 4/20 @ 11:56 am #
Or shorter: After years of griping the Bush was shutting out the press and the press haplessly played along, Jay Rosen and Arianna Huffington decided they would set up a new media where this wouldn’t happen. Off the Bus.
The minute the new media released a less-than-flattering but well done story about the favored candidate of the left, the left criticized the new media.
The new media then published a less-than-flattering but poorly done story about the unfavored candidate of the left. When a critic noticed the difference in quality of the criticism,
the response of the new media (in the person of Jay Rosen) was to say “Well, it was a different section of our website that put the story with our reporter on our new media page!”
Comment by Pablo on 4/20 @ 12:05 pm #
Nearly 4500 comments on that? Holy moley. It’s not even much of a story.
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Comment by Topsecretk9 on 4/20 @ 12:34 pm #
Thanks Maybee for the “new left media dichotomies for dummies”
Comment by Topsecretk9 on 4/20 @ 12:34 pm #
version…
Comment by Karl on 4/20 @ 12:40 pm #
RE: RatherGate. I was hoping to revisit it when Rather’s suit was dismissed. The core of it has been dismissed, but it could come up in his contract claim, on which CBS plans to move for Summary Judgment. There might be good stuff coming out of discovery for that, and thus worth a wait.
Comment by Topsecretk9 on 4/20 @ 1:02 pm #
Well, Karl — get what BBH-PYU has to offer though for the future.
Comment by Big Bang Hunter (pumping you up) on 4/20 @ 2:09 pm #
- Well we can always hope Karl. I grant you that. But realistically theres a reason the Kerrys of the 2004 election have all managed to evade any sort of legal showdown, so its probable they’re a tad smarter than the Wilsons, and we won’t get that satisfaction.
- OTOH, some of the players are looney enough, an example being the dude in Indianna that “wrote” the memo’s in the first place, that a better hope will be he’ll do a 180, no not that 180, and turn on his team. But that too is a longshot, and I agree it would be a lot better to fill in some of the suppositions and gaps with facts.
- Either way, whatever I have is yours for the asking when the time comes. Remember, every mendacious perp in the mess will be guarding their reps like a junk yard dog because they wouldn’t have done what they did if they didn’t believe in their pointed little heads and their black little hearts what they were doing was “for teh greater good”.
Comment by Topsecretk9 on 4/20 @ 2:17 pm #
-an example being the dude in Indianna that “wrote†the memo’s in the first place-
hmmm. I really hope that the discovery via Summary Judgement happens soon, because I’m on the edge of my seat.
–so its probable they’re a tad smarter than the Wilsons, and we won’t get that satisfaction.–
BBH-PYUp
A little bit more here? Pretty please?
Comment by Big Bang Hunter (pumping you up) on 4/20 @ 2:22 pm #
- Its called a teaser TopK…..Karl and I are just fucking with your head…..
Comment by Topsecretk9 on 4/20 @ 2:40 pm #
And it worked.
Comment by JD on 4/20 @ 5:54 pm #
Indiana? BBH, say it ain’t so.
Comment by thor on 4/21 @ 1:35 am #
HuffPo’s Mysterious Banner Flair: A Crisis of Who To Blame, by Lrak Asswards.
KK, search Hannah Montana on youtube. Cataclysms between temptations so dark and wretched and imagery so happy and innocent, that’s what needs explaining! You owe it to the world.
Comment by Big Bang Hunter (pumping you up) on 4/21 @ 4:54 pm #
- JD – It may have been Illinois….you know how shifty and murky those mid-Westerners can be.
- TopK. Heres another teaser to whet your appitite. Mapes held the fakes for 5+ years before she moved with then, having purchased them just before the 2000 election when the DNC rejected same as they were shopped around. DNC leadership looked them over and felt they were probably fakes and in any event, too hot to handle. That, in turn, means the entire “Mr.H, rodeo in texas” story was a smoke screen, as was Rathers trip to interview him.
- I’m with Karl in voicing the hope that Rather may roll over to protect his rep. Theres a lot of evidence he was a tool in the whole sordid affair, played for his partisanship, even to the end. Mapes, forget it. Shes a raving Left-wing ideolog that would burn at the stake before she’d admit the truth.
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