March 5, 2008

Shocker! [Dan Collins]

Must credit Protein Wisdom!

Glenn Reynolds is a Jewish Muslim! 

UPDATE: !!!1!!

Barack: Hillary most secretivest pol in America (h/t Hot Air)

Posted by Dan Collins @ 8:13pm
165 comments | Trackback

Comments (165)

  1. That’s a vile smear, Dan.

    He’s a lawyer.

  2. Yeah, but what if we called him a Scientologist?!

  3. Yeah well we can all disapprove of abortion, but we all know someone what should have been is what an old roommate used to say.

  4. And here I thought he was a black klansman.

  5. The tough talk underscored not only the negative shift in tone of the Obama campaign in the past 24 hours, but just how contentious this fight for the nomination is becoming.

    Any Halo players out there? You know how it feels when you sneak up on a big room and see the Flood and the Covenant going at it on the other side?

    Heh.

  6. I knew it!!

    It seems so obvious now. But you gotta admit he’s been wanting–dying-to get this off his chest.

  7. Idiot.

  8. Indeed. I just commented over at Sanchez’ site:

    Wow. Between all the rampant anti-Muslim feeling in the US — and all the Archie Bunker Democrats working hard to keep a black man down — it’s a wonder somebody hasn’t done a new cover of “Helter Skelter.”

    At this rate, it’ll be a million years before the US ever overcomes its demons and nominates a minority to run for prez!

    Does he ever tire of being an insufferable twit? Or trying to suck the oxygen from beneath Glenn’s sack?

  9. I guess I heard something about Reynolds family being blended.
    And you should see that family’s puppy-coat of arms. Spotty in places.

  10. Insta-lanche WHORE!!!

  11. Oh yeah. Helter Skelter in lolkat:

    WHEN I GIT 2 TEH BOTTOM
    I GO BAK 2 TEH TOP OV TEH SLIDE
    WER I STOP AN TURN
    AN I GO 4 RIDE
    TILL I GIT 2 TEH BOTTOM AN I C U AGAIN
    YA, YA, YA
    DO U DOAN U WANTS ME 2 LUV U
    IM COMIN DOWN FAST BUT IM MILEZ ABOOV U
    TELL ME TELL ME COME ON TELL ME TEH ANZWR
    AN U CUD BE LOVR BUT U AINT NO DANCR

  12. By the way, h/t to Percy Dovetonsils for the “Archie Bunker Dems” link.

  13. HELTER SKELTER!!!!!!!!!!

    BA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

    HELTER SKELTER……..

    BA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA……

    sorry…it’s the only way I can get that dam song out of my head….

  14. Julian Sanchez – You are a racist sexist homophobe.

  15. A gleenwaldian jock-sniffer, if you will. NTTAWWT

  16. Pingback: Tennesseefree.com » Clinton Wants Obama seated at THE BACK OF THE BUS! OUTRAGE!!!!!111!!!!!!

  17. I’m just gonna say the obvious cause no one else did but for real talking to my liberal friends there’s no bigger smear than to tag somebody as a Christian. No, for real. I remember on the internet once there was this girl named Amanda and she was a lot a good example of this. I’ll see if I can find a link.

  18. He’s a lawyer.

    Now that’s a vile smear.

  19. Among the many liberals I am acquainted with, being a Christian is definitely not good. When a fellow grad student found out I am one, she was surprised and stopped herself before saying she thought I was smart. Apparently Christianity is only a belief for stupid people.

    They also think it high comedy to come to a halloween party dressed as, say, a person advocating belief in the flying spaghetti monster. It’s a laugh riot.

  20. I suppose you could use the vile meme from the Huckabee “campaign”…he’s a MORMON. After all, it worked once.

  21. feets, sry but xians work very hard to get that stupid demographic.
    maybe if they DENOUCED those idiots they wouldnt need their own schools.
    lets face it…in academe its shit like this that reinforces the xian==stupid meme.

  22. haha…like u alla time want me to denouce the jihaadis.
    wait…..mebbe the IDists and Creationists AREN’T XIAN??????

    lulz.

  23. that, an u all makin excuses for whackjobs like Hagee.

  24. ermm…..is Hagee xian?

    hahahahahahaha!

  25. But you’re the one introducing the specific lens of intelligence, which, stupid non-Christians are what? Innocuous cause they’re not easy to collectivize and point to and say them’s what’s stupid… Thems there? They’re still out there in their millions. In that sense really the non-Christian stupid are I think arguably not a social benefit of any particular force whatsoever. A lot cause I think they don’t even think of themselves as existing in any particularly grounded relation to society… mostly they get dim cues from the media and news they cobrand with, but they’re largely all about striking poses of alienation. What I mean to say is I think there’s merit in exploring the idea that Christians, even through just your lens of intelligence, sort of eliding other values, are very likely a cut above, of more benefit to social cohesion, than any other subset of teh stupid in America today. Resolved: Christians suck less hard than your average stupid people.

    I think I’d argue the affirmative is all.

  26. my lens is science and acadame, feets.
    xians get zero respect there cuz of crap like the wedge stragegy and BYU and Oral Roberts.

    if they want to be respected as scientists and academicians, do science and acadame.
    its pretty simple.

  27. jews are some of the best scientists in the world.
    cuz the are able to separate religion from science.
    xians seem profoundly unable to do that.
    i cant name a single world class xian scientist…can u?
    so they get labelled “stupid” and jews get labelled “smart”

  28. an i refuse to say xians are all stupid…i have friends that are very intelligent xians, but they do have this tragic flaw….they cant separate their religion from science.
    they are very bright….but they get called stupid cuz they cant make that jump.

  29. i guess the bottom line is…..if u act stupid, dont whine when ppl describe u as stupid.

  30. Well yeah, zero respect but they’s they ones what you seem a lot to think are your mostest worthiest adversaries, nishi. Leo Dicaprio and Cameron Diaz aren’t doing science any favors. Gang members and SEIU card-carryers neither. You’re not upset with them so much though. Why not? Cause for the non-stupid Christians, there’s a wedge program what’s already come to a satisfactory fruition is my guess.

  31. Oh. I got caught up. Hey. I’m all for enlightenment 2.0 a lot really. I just don’t see the ferment for that coming out of Baracky and Nancy and Harry at all. I’m thinking more we should keep our eye on India really.

  32. oh. they ones was supposed to just be *the* ones

  33. Oh crap. And also Cause for the non-stupid Christians was supposed to be Cause for the stupid non-Christians.

    i seepy.

  34. me 2.

    :)

  35. As far as I can tell there are three minorities running in the current Presidential election.

    A Black.
    A Woman.
    A Republican.

  36. Women aren’t a minority….they’re more than 50% of the US population.

  37. Comments from last link in post:

    Somebody really needs to investigate the allegations of how many Rush Limbaugh/Radical Right followers took his advice and voted for Hillary in the primaries on March 4. Some of the exit poll responses seem off, such as importance of race. Also, couldn’t that explain Hillary’s weakness in the Texas caucuses, if the spoilers voted in the primary but didn’t want to show themselves in public? The irony is that Obama supporters might have enabled this voting bloc by making sure everyone got to vote, especially the party crossovers. There’s some real dirt hiding in these numbers. It sounds crazy, but crazier things have happened in US politics. All we need is one voter who identifies himself in public as taking Rush’s advice.

    Here in Michigan, before our primary – Democrats were BRAGGING on the radio that they were going to have a little mischief and vote in the Republican primary.

  38. All we need is one voter who identifies himself in public as taking Rush’s advice.

    For what?

  39. Gosh, Carin. What would Kos do?

  40. i cant name a single world class xian scientist…can u?

    And nishi has now gone full blown alphie/datadave.

  41. Honestly, it’s hilarious. Dems voting in Republican primary? Mischief snarkily reported on NPR. Rethuglians crossing over under Rush’s marching orders? TEH OUTRAGE!

  42. You know, I can’t name a single world-class xian scientist either. OMG. SHE’s RIGHT.

    Here … let me google, “World class Christian Scientist” and see what I come up with. Certainly they list Scientists (WORLD CLASS) by their religious affiliation, right?

  43. Here’s a list of famous Scientists who are dumber than Nishi. Since they were xian.

  44. Nishi…”i guess the bottom line is…..if u act stupid, dont whine when ppl describe u as stupid.”

    But, r u happy?

    Keith Ward, from Is Religion Dangerous?

    In Ch 9. Does religion do more harm than good in personal life? Ward quotes data from David Myers citing surveys by Gallup, the National Opinion Research Centre and the Pew Organisation which conclude that spiritually committed people are twice as likely to report being “very happy” than the least religiously committed people.[17] He reports an analysis of over 200 social studies that “high religiousness predicts a rather lower risk of depression and drug abuse and fewer suicide attempts, and more reports of satisfaction with life and a sense of well-being”[18] and a review of 498 studies published in peer-reviewed journals that “concluded that a large majority of these studies showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self-esteem, and lower levels of hypertension, depression and clinical delinquency,[19] and similar results from the Handbook of Religion and Mental Health.[20] He cites surveys suggesting a strong link between faith and altruism.[21] He cites extensive studies to show that there is little or no evidence that religion ever causes mental disorders[22] and that overall religion is a positive contributor to mental health.

    Put that in your bong and smoke it.

  45. that spiritually committed people are twice as likely to report being “very happy” than the least religiously committed people.[

    Honestly, that’s because the stupid dupes aren’t smart enough to realize how miserable they are. NEXT!

  46. Isaac Newton was a Christian. But he was a dumbass, I guess.

  47. no carin…that list is famous scientists that WERE
    not ARE
    in ancient times pretty much everybody was of some religious avocation. there wasnt much choice.
    your [veiled sneer] Discovery Institute came up with a list of current secondraters.
    no one of any importance on that list, trust me…we ripped them at GNXP when it came out.

    serr8D, the argument was christians==stupid, not christians==happy
    stupid ppl are happier, ill agree with that.

  48. look…u wanna know why xian==dumb?
    i told u.
    it is because of stuff like the wedge strategy and xian “colleges”.
    jus sayin.

  49. Nishi been spending too much time with my pal Ardsgaine, the “Godless Capitalist,” echoing the “faith is unreason” meme.

    Nishi, there are hundreds and hundreds of scientists who are also Christians who have no problem whatsoever blending their faith with their scientific knowledge. The fact that you see it as utterly incompatable is a testament to your absolutist religious bigotry than to your critical thinking. This love affair with absolutist thinking is hardly a positive reflection of your avowed scientific mindset. Bigotry and intolerance exist in science as well as religion. Just review the sordid history of Eugenics. That in and of itself is enough evidence to suggest that completely trusting the ethics of scientists is a fool’s errand.

    Here’s a little truism for you: Just because you think it’s a fact doesn’t necessarily make it the truth.

  50. I know this one Christian dude that’s running for President by the name of Obama.

  51. no carin…that list is famous scientists that WERE
    not ARE.

    Francis Collins

    Know any famous muslim scientists, nish?

  52. My Discovery Institute? Regardless, that list you mentioned isn’t one that ranks the top 300 scientist who are Christian (as you are inferring) but simply those (I assume they are at least all Christian, given that is your argument- but are they?) who signed some statement voicing skepticism regarding evolution. From your own link:

    Most of the signators to the DI’s list (about 80%) are not biologists; some are not even scientists. Generally speaking, mathematicians, electrical engineers, philosophers, and so forth are only marginally more qualified to comment on the validity of evolution than the average person on the street.

    As they say, Heh.

    stupid ppl are happier, ill agree with that.

    Careful, nishi, your elitism is showing.

  53. Well, Pablo, nishi will apply some self actualized construct to condemn Dr. Collins to “second tier” status. When the criteria is “Christian = stoopid” no amount of real scientific achievement will be enough to overcome the stain of faithful unreason.

    The rules work well for nishi beacuse she designed them to suit her preconceived prejudices.

  54. collins, who i admire and have read is a singleton, an outlier.
    he denounces the Discovery Institute btw.
    let me repeat…u want to know why the common cultural perception of xians is that they are stupid, i told u why.
    in our culture, scientists are widely reguarded as intelligent.
    anti-scientists, like the ID ppl, therefore taint the whole lot of u.
    sry.

    it is cultural evolution. the actions and philosophy of the Discovery Institute (rabid xians, right?) taint the lot of u.
    exactly like ppl expect me to wear a burkha and suicide-bomb cuz im a muslimah.
    it is jus the way it is.

  55. evolutionary theory of culture is kinda my hobby.
    this is not an attack on xians, it is just an explanation of cultural perception.

  56. Scientists of Faith: Forty-Eight Biographies of Historic Scientists and Their Christian Faith.

    Got that muslim scientist, nishi? Or shall we just go with the muslim = stupid construct? Actually, I’m gonna need a list, because an outlier isn’t going to do it.

  57. haha, it cultural perception, not mine.
    i splained it pablo.

  58. And… the thread is successfully hijacked by a person who is unable to write a coherent sentence, either willfully or due to a lousy grammar school education.

    Coming closer to back on the topic? Julian Sanchez is one of the main reasons I let my subscription to “Reason” expire.

    Bitchin’ sideburns on the lad, however.

  59. hehe..trying to convince me?
    convince culture.

  60. it is cultural evolution. the actions and philosophy of the Discovery Institute (rabid xians, right?) taint the lot of u.
    exactly like ppl expect me to wear a burkha and suicide-bomb cuz im a muslimah.
    it is jus the way it is.

    No, nishi, it isn’t. I’s called bigotry and ignorance. If you just shrug your shoulders then you are part of the problem.

  61. dont u guyz get it? u can spew counterexamples until the cows come home.
    im not sayin wat i think, im sayin the joint perception of xians as stupid is a judgement by culture.
    how do u change that?

  62. nishi, if religions didn’t confer some advantage to societies, how would they arise and why persist? If they no longer do, what has changed? Has the religious impulse been extinguished, or has it been replaced? If so, what has been reified in place of “God”?

  63. hehe..trying to convince me?
    convince culture.

    You don’t speak for culture, nishi, though you may have convinced yourself of that. You’d be wrong.

  64. Nishi: You are promoting an idea that most people think Christians are stupid (ya got any polling data to back that up or are you just refering to your enormous circle of friends?)an ignorant, idiotic, bigoted generalization that wouldn’t pass scientific muster in a fourth grade World cultures class and then give it a smelly pantina of cover by saying it’s cultural. These are your, unsupported conclusions, so I must assume that you are ignorant and an anti-Christian bigot unless you are prepared to present hard data of an overwhelming trend of cultural acceptance of Christian retards.

    Beware: You and your cultural evolutionary friends laughing about dumbass Cross worshipers is not hard data.

  65. well..i agree with my colleagues that the Wedge Strategy and the Discovery Institute are deeply anti-scientific.
    i guess if u support that u become anti-scientific by association.

  66. Percy – Could not agree more. Julian Sanchez is quite the twatwaffle. Or is that racist? Or sexist?

  67. no i was replyin to feets 19 and cranky-d 21.

  68. feets said xian was a slur and cranky-d said ppl assume xians are stupid.
    im sayin why.

  69. dan, that is true, we are hardwired for religion, it was a fitness advantage in the EEA.
    i am just explaing why xians are percieved by our culture as stupid, in response to cranky-d and feets comments.

  70. it is because xians are percieved as anti-scientists, where our culture percieves scientists as “smart”.
    cultural perception.

  71. i guess if u support that u become anti-scientific by association.

    So is that like guilt by association? Then you are a terrorist. Jeff is a Zionist. Republicans are all tolerant of sexual predators. Christians are all abortion bombers and assasins of abortion doctors. Animal lovers all want to firebomb laboratories. Environmentalists all want to commit arson against ski lodges.

    Need I go on?

    You don’t see it, that blinding mote in your eye that you are waving your hand and giving intellectual cover for generalized bigotry and ignorance. Why not just stand up and say “I may disagree with some Christians on some things but calling Christians stupid is, in and of itself, stupid?”

  72. hehe..trying to convince me?
    convince culture.

    If I asked culture, I bet culture would tell me that the science muslims are best at is the science behind explosives.
    It’s culture.

  73. im SAYIN CULTURAL PERCEPTION.
    how culture works, the mechanism.
    the only thing i have said ABOUT MY PERSONAL BELIEFS is that jews seem to be better at separating religion from science. i base that on the number of nobel prizes in science awarded over the last 10 years.
    jews are profoundly overrepresented.
    and that is a PERSONAL BELIEF AND AN UNPROVEN HYPOTHESIS.

  74. maybee, this has nothing to do with my faith.
    i am replyin to feets and cranky-d on the cultural perception of xians as stupid.

  75. i guess Karl wud say, tu coque!

  76. Nishi: Your PERCEPTION of CULTURAL PERCEPTION is UNSUPPORTED in its TRANSCENDANT GENERALIZATION because it’s only YOUR OPINION of said CULTURAL PERCEPTION.

    GOT IT?

    But what do I know, being a stupid Christian and all.

  77. if its unsupported why did feets and cranky-d bring it up?

  78. maybee, this has nothing to do with my faith.
    i am replyin to feets and cranky-d on the cultural perception of xians as stupid.

    I didn’t say it had anything to do with your faith. I’m replying to cultural perceptions of different religions.

  79. look..cant u read? feets said xian was a slur and cranky said ppl couldnt believe he was xian cuz hes smart.
    havent u ever heard this?

    believers cant be thinkers, thinkers cant be believers?
    it is a common cultural perception…im just explain why it its prevalent in modern culture.
    it is because xians are percieved as anti-scientific, which equates to stupid in the public eye.

  80. wow……stick ur heads in the sand.
    massive denial?

  81. ‘feets and cranky were talking about liberals, the highly irrational, not the culture at large which, accoring to the 2000 census is 76.5% stupid Christian. Marcotte was referenced as an example of those being discussed.

    This is tedious.

  82. World class religious scientists who are all still alive.

    Charles Hard Townes
    (born 1915) In 1964 he won the Nobel Prize in Physics and in 1966 he wrote The Convergence of Science and Religion. Source: University of California, Berkeley and Templeton Prize’s site.

    Ian Barbour
    (born 1923) A physicist who wrote Christianity and the Scientists in 1960, and When Science Meets Religion ISBN 0-06-060381-X in 2000. For years he taught at Carleton College. Source: Templeton Prize site.

    Stanley Jaki
    (born 1924) Benedictine who won a Templeton Prize and advocates the idea modern science could only have arisen in a Christian society. Source: Seton Hall University site.

    Allan Sandage
    (born 1926) An astronomer of Jewish ancestry who converted to Christianity late in life. He wrote the article A Scientist Reflects on Religious Belief and made discoveries concerning the Cigar Galaxy. Source: The religion essay, astronomy article and Bruce Medalist page,

    Antonino Zichichi
    (born 1929) A Sicilian physicist who wrote Why I Believe in Him Who Made the World that it is a “mathematical and scientific proof of the validity of the Encyclical ‘Fides et Ratio,’ two dimensions that proceed totally united and that cannot be made to oppose each other, as atheist culture would have it.” He teaches theoretical physics at the University of Bologna. Source: Zenit News Agency andScience and Theology News

    John Polkinghorne
    (born 1930) Anglican priest who wrote Science and the Trinity (2004) ISBN 0-300-10445-6. Winner of the 2002 Templeton Prize. He is also a past President of Queens’ College, Cambridge. Source: His own website/

    Owen Gingerich
    (born 1930) Mennonite astronomer who went to Goshen College and Harvard . He has written about people of faith in science history. Source: Space.com and Cambridge Christians in Science.

    R. J. Berry
    (born 1934) He is a former president of both the Linnean Society of London and the Christians in Science group. He also wrote God and the Biologist: Personal Exploration of Science and Faith (Apollos 1996) ISBN 0-85111-446-6 As he taught at University College London for over 20 years. Source: iv press and Christians in Science

    Ghillean Prance
    (born 1937) A noted botanist involved in the Eden Project. He is also the current President of Christians in Science. Source: CiS interview

    Donald Knuth
    (born 1938) (Lutheran) The Art of Computer Programming and 3:16 Bible Texts Illuminated (1991), ISBN 0-89579-252-4 Source: His website.

    Henry F. Schaefer, III
    (born 1944) He wrote Science and Christianity: Conflict or Coherence? ISBN 0-9742975-0-X and was awarded the American Chemical Society Award in Pure Chemistry in 1979. Source: University of Georgia Athens

    Michael Heller
    (born 1944) He is a Catholic priest, a member of the Pontifical Academy of Theology, and a founding member of the International Society for Science and Religion.’ He also is a mathematical physicist who has written articles on relativistic physics and Noncommutative geometry. His cross-disciplinary book Creative Tension: Essays on Science and Religion came out in 2003. He teaches at Kraków, hence the picture of a Basilica from the city. Source: Templeton Foundation, Journal of Mathematical Physics, and ISSR

    Hugh Ross
    (born 1945) In astronomy worked as a postdoctoral researcher at the California Institute of Technology. In religion he founded his own ministry called Reasons To Believe. Source: Reasons to Believe official web page and Trinity Western University News

    Robert T. Bakker
    (born 1945) Paleontologist who was a figure in the “dinosaur Renaissance” and known for the theory some dinosaurs were Warm-blooded. He is also a Pentecostal preacher who advocates theistic evolution and has written on religion. Source: Interview with him at Prehistoric planet and a Spiritual site linked to him

    Joan Roughgarden
    (born 1946) Transsexual scientist who wrote Evolution and Christian Faith: Reflections of an Evolutionary Biologist and has done Bible study. She teaches at Stanford University. Source: New York Times and Stanford alumni magazine

    Kenneth R. Miller
    (born 1948) A biology professor at Brown University who wrote Finding Darwin’s God ISBN 0-06-093049-7. Source: St. Petersburg Times[35]

    Francis Collins
    (born 1950) He is the director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute. He has also written on religious matters in articles and in Faith and the Human Genome he states the importance to him of “the literal and historical Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which is the cornerstone of what I believe.” He wrote the book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief. Source: ASA and Genome.gov

    Laurance Doyle
    (born 1950) A scientist at SETI who argues that his faith, Christian Science, encouraged a scientific revolution. Source: Christian Science site and SETI

    Simon C. Morris
    (born 1951) A British paleontologist who made his reputation through study of the Burgess Shale fossils, one of which is pictured. He was the co-winner of a Charles Doolittle Walcott Medal and also won a Lyell Medal. He is active in the Faraday Institute for study of science and religion and is also noted on discussions concerning the idea of theistic evolution. Source: Gifford Lectures, Boyle Lecture, Boston University.

    John T. Houghton
    (born ????) He is the co-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and won a gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society. He’s also former Vice President of Christians in Science. Source: Christians in Science

    Christopher Isham
    (born ????) Theoretical physicist at Imperial College London. In addition to being a physicist, he is a philosopher and theologian. Source: Stephen Hawkins, the Big Bang, and God, by H. F. Schaefer

  83. i guess the bottom line is…..if u act stupid, dont whine when ppl describe u as stupid.

    Pot. Kettle. BANG!

    Teh irony, it’s smothering.

  84. but pablo, that is academe, where cranky’s example comes from.
    i guess feets hangs with liberal elite in teh Industry too.
    that IS the culture that percieves xians as stupid. “academe and teh educated” culture.

    sure, xians arent gonna selfidentify as stupid.
    i bet most xians think the Wedge Strategy IS scientific, hehe.
    and so…cultural perceptions get perpetuated.

  85. I’m done, Pablo. There is no intellectual honesty or a spec of self awareness in the nishi icon. Her preconceived constructs are her world and nothing else shall intrude.

  86. But, RTO, think about how much smarter and what better scientists they’d be if they weren’t limited by their xianity.

  87. hehe, go for it RTO.
    why do u care?
    it isnt possible to re-engineer the memetics of academe at this point.
    i dont think.

  88. Why not just stand up and say “I may disagree with some Christians on some things but calling Christians stupid is, in and of itself, stupid?”

    Because you didn’t misspell a single world, BJ, and used proper grammar.

  89. That’s her schtick, BJ. I’m bored with it.

  90. i dont think.

    Truer words, nishi, truer words…

  91. Culture says that those who can’t or won’t communicate in clear language are socially and intellectually stunted. Culture says that while such people may have intrinsic intelligence, such abilities are destined to remain hidden for as long as these poor creatures refuse to engage in higher thinking (or punctuation). Culture insists that it is futile to try to engage in rational discourse with those who can’t be arsed to hold down a shift key, much less hold down their end of an intellectual debate.

    In this case, I daresay Culture has it right.

  92. Rob, i keep sayin this isnt about me…it is about cultural perception.
    i cant say that, because culture isnt stupid. it just is.
    i can say, i know intelligent christians. :)

    it is like how jews are slurred by usery and avarice.
    at some point in history, in cultural evolution, a lot of jews handled most of the money, so they got accused of greed and slick bargaining.
    that is much older, .
    the anti-scientist perception of xians is much fresher–it is current.
    and it gets kept fresh with the discovery institute and litigation about ID being taught in highschools.
    IJS
    that still persists.

  93. it is a common cultural perception…im just explain why it its prevalent in modern culture.

    I guess the problem, nishi, is that you don’t really need to explain modern culture to anyone here. We all live in modern culture and it seems sillie to me that you think you’ve got some inside track nobody else here understands.
    You end up sounding like it’s something you agree with, and that you’re hiding behind “modern culture” to say it.

  94. wat do care about wat academe and the intelligentsia think about xians anyways?

  95. do u care, i mean.
    does that culture impact u?

  96. well…if u unnerstand modern culture why dont u agree with me that xian==stupid is a cultural perception?
    u keep madly tryin to prove that xians arent stupid…sure, some are very intelligent.
    but to quote Jeff

    Perception is reality

    most especially in evolutionary theory of culture.

  97. i dont think.

    Truer words were never published.

    The only thing set in concrete is nishi’s perceptions of other people’s perceptions and her continuing misaprehension of the aphorism “perception creates reality.”

  98. RTO, school me…where am i wrong?

  99. well…if u unnerstand modern culture why dont u agree with me that xian==stupid is a cultural perception?

    I think it is in some circles. Why don’t you agree with me that muslim = ignorant woman-hating terrorist is a cultural perception?

  100. Rob, i keep sayin this isnt about me…it is about cultural perception.

    Except it’s not the cultural perception. It’s the elitist’s perception, and it’s largely a result of bigotry.

    That you revel in that bigotry, and try to excuse it as “just the way it is”, is no surprise. You’re like that — ignorant, lazy, and easily-led.

  101. The answers, my friends, are blowing in the wind of cultural perception… the answers are blowing in the winds of cultural perception!

    Dude, don’t bogart that joint…

  102. im SAYIN CULTURAL PERCEPTION.
    how culture works, the mechanism.

    I can’t help but wonder what the point of this was.

    i cant name a single world class xian scientist…can u?

    SAFETY IS OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE SO EVERYBODY SHOULD TAKE NOTE.

    MOBILE GOALPOSTS ARE INHERENTLY UNSTABLE AS THEY ARE OPEN AT THE FRONT. THE CROSS BARS ARE HEAVY AND CAN CAUSE FATAL INJURIES IF THEY LAND ON SOMEONE’S HEAD.

    You have been warned.

  103. hmm….i meant the association of jews with usery has largely faded with time, but u can still hear “jews are good with money”, and jewbargaining, stuff like that.
    a lot of racist stuff is cultural perception too, it is like a cultural hangover.
    and sexist stuff.
    i like this old riddle by Kit Marlowe to give u an idea of how women were percieved back than.
    what can smell as sweet as flowers when it wishes
    other times can stink like fishes

    the answer is “a woman”.

    at that time in history, it was fine to say stuff like that.
    accepted cultural perception.

  104. hehe, but pablo hunnie wat i said was true.
    i couldnt name one.

  105. and u guyz had to google.
    ;)

  106. 101, oh yes maybee i can agree.
    did u miss this?

    but pablo, that is academe, where cranky’s example comes from.
    i guess feets hangs with liberal elite in teh Industry too.
    that IS the culture that percieves xians as stupid. “academe and teh educated” culture.

    sure, xians arent gonna selfidentify as stupid.
    i bet most xians think the Wedge Strategy IS scientific, hehe.
    and so…cultural perceptions get perpetuated.

  107. teh educated culture

    umm…no, I didn’t miss that.
    No, I don’t agree that teh educated thinks Christians are stupid.
    I do think you think that, though.

  108. and u guyz had to google.

    No, Dr. Collins came immediately to my mind. And you said you admire him, and yet could not think of him. Who does that make stupid?

    Hint: you.

  109. nah, hes not one of my minor gods, like Dawkins an Atran….btw i think hes a deist, not an xian….ill look for the link. ;)

  110. who i admire and have read is a singleton, an outlier

    All exceptions to your rule are outliers. That way your rule gets to define the set of data it applies to, which is rather convenient. Just not very scientific.

  111. The tackiest Christians get the spotlight a lot, and they don’t know any better, so they look stupid. NPR does this all the time, increasingly unabashedly. They get grants from foundations for doing it.

  112. They can do this a lot cause black and hispanic people aren’t a big percentage of their audience at all, and anyway it’s only white Christians what are dumb as dirt.

  113. hmm…wat do i personally think….
    i do think the Wedge Strategy is profoundly anti-scientific method, in that it attempts to have ID instantiated as a Science by politcal and judiciarial strategic tactics.
    i think not all xians are stupid, but being anti-science on ID makes them look stupid.
    is that ok?

  114. i think NPR’s target audience is “academe and teh educated” feets.

  115. it is pointless to try to persuade me.
    persuade academe.
    sadly, xians get tarred with the ID brush.
    it plays into the old meme, thinkers cant be believers, believers cant be thinkers.

  116. nishi you’re absolutely right. And increasingly so. “Academe and teh educated” gravitate to media that doesn’t challenge their perceptions. That’s kind of ironic I think.

  117. School you? You stick your fingers in yiour ears ans shout LALALA when anyone else trys, why am I going to let myslf in for the frustration.

    I’ll stick to providing concrete illustrations of how you get it wrong for the edification of the rest. There is hope for them.

  118. btw i have nothing against ID theory.
    it is exactly where quantum physics was 50 years ago.
    but ID doesnt get a pass to go the head of the line without doing the heavy lifting.

  119. but i dont have it wrong RTO.

  120. teh educated

    This is too broad.

  121. t is pointless to try to persuade me.
    persuade academe.
    sadly, xians get tarred with the ID brush.
    it plays into the old meme, thinkers cant be believers, believers cant be thinkers.

    Well, that kinda supports the argument that academia ain’t all that academic. A reoccurring theme around here.

    Regardless, your opinion seems to be that it’s a stereotype, but it’s true.

  122. ??
    i said i know intelligent xians personally.
    it is a cultural perception, perhaps that is wat all stereotypes are.

  123. “Academe and teh educated” gravitate to media that doesn’t challenge their perceptions.

    Wait. Oops. That makes it sound way more honest than it really is. “Academe and teh educated” gravitate to media where the feel assured the message is getting out is mostly what it is. It’s like how smart people are way way less alarmed by global warming than your base consumer. NPR is not about what they think for real, it’s just about what they think it would be useful if other people thought. They too know intelligent xians personally.

  124. feets is right.
    its more like its just funsies to mock teh other tribe.

  125. but i dont have it wrong RTO.

    So you keep insisting. I guess it’s true so long as that remains your perception.

  126. erm…cant u unnerstand why actual scientists might find the Wedge Strategy…oh….i dunno..
    offensive???

  127. Nishi then went on to prove that black is white and white is black and was promptly killed at the next zebra crossing.

  128. Does anyone know what this “Wedge Strategy” that is being tossed about is?

  129. it is a cultural perception, perhaps that is wat all stereotypes are.

    Well, that is eye opening.

  130. it is pointless to try to persuade me.

    Why are you here?

    This morning’s episode of dancing with bigoted, attention seeking, offensive and mendacious trolls brought to you by NISHI.

  131. it is pointless to try to persuade me

    From God’s lips to yours, nishi. It’s easier to retrieve a grain of sand from beyond an event horizon than it is to change your opinions.

    This, too, comes to mind, because of the whole lot of nothing keeping you and your opinion firmly and closely juxtaposed.

    My own opinion about leading smart people is none of them have narrow feet, except for perhaps an exception or twelve. Disprove that!

  132. In the meantime, it’s absolutely idiotic to suppose that the Discovery Institute represents all Christians, or even more than an insignificant fraction of Christians.

  133. it’s absolutely idiotic to suppose that the Discovery Institute represents all Christians,

    true, but all xians get tarred with that stereotype.
    its how memetic transmission and pentration works.
    the DI reinforces the thinkers cant be believers meme.

  134. penetration

  135. true, but all xians get tarred with that stereotype

    By whom? Other than you, I mean.

  136. its how memetic transmission and pentration works

    No, first you have to have someone, or some group of people, propagating the meme.

    Which, head-scratchingly, looks to be you.

  137. Not just funsies. What I mean more is that they are very interested in manicuring their own tribe as well. Smart people are way way less alarmed by global warming so NPR has to do a year-long series on climate change. Their audience is also unfortunately prone to not being particularly alarmed at bioscience applications like performance-enhancing drugs, so they have to club their listeners on their pointy little heads until they get it. Smart people need to be told over and over again that Christians are disproportionately dumb, cause lots of them are really rather forgiving about unconventional belief systems. I was way wrong to say that thing about the gravitating. It’s way not that simple. But the relevant part is that NPR embodies a wedge strategy as well, a lot quintessentially, really. NPR’s strikingly consolidated audience is way more homogeneous than Christianity could ever attempt to be, and far, far more concerned with getting the tribe on the same page than Christianity is. In church, liberals and conservatives are allowed to share the same pew even.

  138. pfft..by NPR and teh educated.
    hey, feets and cranky started this.
    im just analyzing, as is my wont.
    ;)

  139. *Their* … ack, I suck at this lately a lot it seems.

  140. feets alla that is true.
    its always tribe vs tribe.
    but do u unnerstand how offensive the Wedge Strategy is to ppl that have devoted 10 yrs or so to the scientific method?

  141. some of that is revenge.

  142. its cheater detection for them.
    the IDists want to be in the tribe of scientists, but the scientists wont allow it.

  143. the IDists want to be in the tribe of scientists, but the scientists wont allow it.

    That’s just a stupid statement, nishi. They want to be mistaken for scientists, to get equal time in the classroom.

  144. but do u unnerstand how offensive the Wedge Strategy is to ppl that have devoted 10 yrs or so to the scientific method?

    Are they anything like the people who find it offensive that others would try to pass gay marriage in one state, so that it would be forced upon all states?

  145. ID gets all its memetic force such as it is from your opposition though. Y’all know that, too.

  146. i dont think so…we all want to belong.
    it is a basic biology of behavior thing.

  147. nah feets….u didnt read….its megabucks flowin to political and litiginous channels.
    its both funnie and offensive to the scientific community.
    thus the mockery.

  148. would try to pass gay marriage in one state, so that it would be forced upon all states?

    zactly.

  149. Bah. Megabucks. What’s NPR’s budget, nishi? You’re pretending to believe your own hype is all. This book threw all it could at documenting the insidious wedge strategy, and this is alls they got:

    Forrest and Gross detail efforts of intelligent design proponents to influence science standards in Kansas and Ohio, and to influence federal education legislation through the so-called “Santorum amendment” of the 2001 No Child Left Behind Act. They demonstrate the continuity of intelligent design with traditional creationism, including all the scientific claims, exposing its religious core and purposes. By displaying the movement’s alliance with Religious Right extremism, the book reveals the significance of William Dembski’s statement that the intelligent design movement’s challenge to the “evolutionary naturalism of Darwin” is “ground zero of the culture war.”

    ID peeps dream wetly wetly bouts being ground zero of teh culture wars.

    But this blurb is more telling I think…

    “Combating creationism in its various guises continues to divert limited resources away from public education, and takes time away from enjoyable scholarship. But what choice do we have? To fight effectively, we must know our enemy. The most thorough introduction to that enemy is Creationism’s Trojan Horse. Its authors are heroes.” — Bruce Grant, Skeptic, “Intentional Deception: Intelligent Design Creationism,” E-Skeptic Hotline #22

    Teh enemy. Ohnoes.

  150. Never hear do this Wedge Document or the Discovery Institute–yet you’re happy to tar us all with their crazy.

    But that’s okay because that’s how you perceive it.

  151. true. but all xians get tarred with that stereotype

    Correction: ” True. And I tar all Christians with that stereotype.”

  152. by NPR and teh educated.

    You can say by NPR, if you wish. You can keep repeating it is ‘the educated’ that think this, but you are wrong. Some educated people, sure. Not educated people as a group.

  153. i dont think so…we all want to belong

    It’s self-evident! We all want to be Muslims! We all want to be Buddhists! We all want to be Hindus! We all want to be writing for the NYT! We all want to be farmers! We all want to be impoverished, because that would put us in the same “tribe” as most of the rest of the world!

    We all want to be writing all in phonetext! But we’re too embarrassed to.

  154. Comment by nishizonoshinji on 3/6 @ 2:49 am #

    (1) jews are some of the best scientists in the world.
    (2) cuz the are able to separate religion from science.
    (3) xians seem profoundly unable to do that.

    (Nishi’s comments, my numerical indicators)

    I’m sorry but your inference (not culture) is bigoted. You assume all Jews are able to set aside their religion as scientists and that no Christian can, just because of their belief. You cite no proof, and when challenged your reply is:

    Comment by nishizonoshinji on 3/6 @ 9:13 am #

    the only thing i have said ABOUT MY PERSONAL BELIEFS is that jews seem to be better at separating religion from science. i base that on the number of nobel prizes in science awarded over the last 10 years.

    This is not proof to your statement above. It supports your hypothesis that “jews are some of the best scientists in the world”, but it does not prove that they appear to be such “cuz the[y] are able to separate religion from science.” These two statements may be coincidental, the second may be the cause of the first or they may be completely unrelated. You have not proved causation between (1) and (2) above by scientific method, but you have used your assumption of causality to form another hypothesis: “xians seem profoundly unable to do that.”

    Sorry, you have proved nothing and butchered scientific method in the meantime. In my opinion, this is why others have been excoriating you for your statements–you appear to be arguing your unsupported opinons as facts.

    Comment by nishizonoshinji on 3/6 @ 9:25 am #

    because xians are percieved as anti-scientific, which equates to stupid in the public eye.

    By your own words, you must be stupid. Sorry to point that out.

    [/casting pearls]

  155. I, personally, want to be Chinese so much (because, after all, there’s over a billion of ‘em) that I adopted a couple of ‘em. So far, though, I still look the same.

  156. I read The Joy Luck Club. For real. And one other about bones or something. In school they tried showing us The Good Earth once when I was little but the film broke so I’m not sure how it ends.

  157. Clearly you don’t want to be Chinese quite badly enough, happyfeet. Want harder!

  158. its both funnie

    Does it strike anyone else as odd how “funny” actually is easier and faster to type—because of the whole one letter less thing–than “funnie”?

    How cute, and yet how pretentious.

  159. nishizonoshinji = why Usenet newsreaders had killfiles

  160. What a revelation! Here I thought all this time that I might be able to participate in the marketplace of ideas. What a confabulation on my part.

  161. Is Nishi saying that Jews are able to separate their moral sense from their science like Dr. Mengele was, but Christians are too moral to do this?

    Scratches head.

    I think I’d be offended if I was a Jew.

    Good thing I’m a dumb Xian.

  162. “Good thing I’m a dumb Xian.”

    Conventional wisdom from the proggs doesn’t recognize any other kind.

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