I’m still fuming over the banning of the incandescent light bulb … done, no doubt, because we lowly peoples just can’t be trusted to act in our own interest … regardless of all the real problems with CFL’s, including inducing migraines and causing skin cancer. Now comes word of a proposed change to California Title 24, “236 pages of state-mandated standards for building energy efficiency”
What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a “programmable communicating thermostat” or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes’ central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a “non-removable ” FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During “price events” those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During “emergency events” the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.
In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations.
Oh goody.
Comment by McGehee on 1/5 @ 2:23 pm #
Gosh, and to think California is losing population these days. Boggles the mind.
Comment by jon on 1/5 @ 2:29 pm #
I’d rather have too little cooling than none at all, so if it avoids a blackout what’s the problem? Plus, so much of the problem is people cooling their empty homes in the summer. If people weren’t so stupid, this wouldn’t be necessary. In a dispute between the nannystate and the spoiled brats, sometimes the spoiled brats will get spanked.
If you don’t want the grid telling you what you can take, then go off-grid. Then you can set your thermostat wherever you damn well please.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 2:31 pm #
Space heaters. Portable airconditioners. God these people, but sounds like a subsidy for big box stores if you ask me.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 2:34 pm #
jon. These wankers in California won’t even attempt to generate the electricity they need at current demand levels. Their policy is to have a trade deficit with neighboring state with respect to electricty, so that’s a constant stream of dollars out of the state, by choice, and it’s profoundly regressive.
Comment by Techie on 1/5 @ 2:37 pm #
If “the grid” wants to be able to tell me what to do, then I shouldn’t have to pay my monthly power bill. Last time I checked, people wrote checks for those kilowatt-hours.
Comment by maggie katzen on 1/5 @ 2:37 pm #
but happyfeet, THINK OF THE ENVIRONMENT!!! it will be nice, because nobody will live there. so um, the bunnies can enjoy it.
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 2:39 pm #
That bulb thing won’t last. Stupidest legislation ever.
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 2:43 pm #
How can anybody stand the whining and pinging of those toxic swirly flourescent bulbs I can’t know. They don’t even light up right away, and they burn out faster than regular bulbs. light is creepy and they make this awful noise. I have about six of them in the basement fixtures and will never buy them again if I can help it.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 2:44 pm #
maggie, if I though for one second that meant my rent would go down, I’d be all over it. But they’re being so sneaky and and just liars cause here’s the deal. A lot of people in california don’t really need climate control, and what is that? UNFAIRS!!!
Redistributionist wankers.
Comment by daleyrocks on 1/5 @ 2:46 pm #
I’m still unclear whether this new measure has to go through the legislature or whether it just gets adopted into the building code by some building commission. Anyone know?
The simple solution is to build more power plants to keep up with population and economic growth and demand, but California can’t do that in its own back yard.
Comment by Darleen on 1/5 @ 2:46 pm #
SarahW
There are so many places one can NOT use a CFL - refrigerator, freezer, oven - outdoor lighting (in places with freezing nighttime temps) - most decorative lighting (chandeliers, bathroom fixtures, etc) and not with any kind of dimmer switch.
Comment by Darleen on 1/5 @ 2:51 pm #
I believe the standards are the sole province of the California Energy Commission - though they answer to the state [socialist] legislature.
Comment by jon on 1/5 @ 2:53 pm #
The problem is related to central air conditioners and their overuse, plus their incredibly-wasteful usage in all sorts of commercial places where people dress like it’s Chicago in winter while it’s Southern California in summer. Not to mention the fact that with so much central air in big buildings it’s impossible to open a window (which leads to less healthy air inside the buildings than outside.) Of course, the residential market is getting hit with regulations first. But someday, enough people will wonder why they need a sweater to see a movie or shop at a supermarket, wonder why they need a suit and tie when it’s 108 degrees out, and wonder why there’s a blast of cooled air coming out of that bank (with doors propped open, naturally.)
As for California not making enough energy: as an Arizonan I can only say thanks. We’ll pollute our skies for you, while you get to entertain us and not be too resentful when we take our vacations there. Every few years I say it’s a nice place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there. And in a few decades, Californians will get to laugh at us when we run out of water and have the nannystate watch us take showers.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 2:59 pm #
Ok. They can have NPR’s frequencies, for the common good and all.
Comment by maggie katzen on 1/5 @ 3:02 pm #
because water is made just like electricity. though I am wondering if exceptions will be made for certain business. something there’s equipment what needs cooling to work properly.
Comment by Lost My Cookies on 1/5 @ 3:03 pm #
A programmable thermostat for a two stage electric heat pump costs well over $70 at Lowes.
That’s my total monthly electric bill.
Only my upstairs has electric heat. I have a boatload of kids, so all my lights are on all the time, not to mention TV’s computers, radios etc…
It would take me over a year to see any savings. If I cranked up the AC, maybe less, but my wife hates AC (and me, obviously).
Just saying…
Comment by maggie katzen on 1/5 @ 3:04 pm #
good lord, what am I on today? the cats must have slipped something into my cereal.
Comment by Darleen on 1/5 @ 3:06 pm #
jon
there is a good way to get people to stop being “wasteful”. Charge what the market will bear for peak times.
That will have two effects… people will use more wisely (even big building owners) and it will make building new powerplants (should be nuclear) profitable. Indeed, we need lots and lots of new, cheap electricity so we don’t have a water crisis in the future.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 1/5 @ 3:11 pm #
“Each PCT will be fitted with a “non-removable †FM receiver…”
I’d be willing to beta test the “removability” of these gadgets–forever, if need be.
Comment by McGehee on 1/5 @ 3:51 pm #
Jon, you’re right. It’s for their own good. And really, what argument can possibly stand against that?
It all makes sense now. Guys, we HAVE to vote for Huckabee. Or better yet, Bloomberg!
Comment by JSchuler on 1/5 @ 3:52 pm #
My question is, do these FM receivers have to accept harmful interference? If so, I see a business opportunity for radio frequency jammers opening up on the West coast.
DIBS!
Comment by maggie katzen on 1/5 @ 3:54 pm #
or maybe some kind of small transmitter, JSchuler? I don’t know. the radio expert of the house is gone today.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 1/5 @ 3:55 pm #
Scratch a liberal, find a fascist.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 1/5 @ 3:59 pm #
I went out to get Jonah Goldberg’s new book today.
I think the title shocked the shit out of the booksore clerk.
It’ll be two more days, however.
Comment by jdm on 1/5 @ 4:22 pm #
Jon, you’re right. It’s for their own good. And really, what argument can possibly stand against that?
What about the children?
Comment by McGehee on 1/5 @ 4:50 pm #
Screw the children (not literally — sit down, Michael Jackson!). They’re always messing with that dagnab thermostat. You’d think we was made of carbon offsets!
Comment by SGT Ted on 1/5 @ 4:58 pm #
Hey jon,
We aren’t spoiled brats; we are working adults who PAY for the fucking electricity. We live in the valley because of all the No Growth liberal assholes who have caused housing prices to skyrocket on the coasts so they can protect their precious oceanside views and keep their property values high. The spoiled brats are the eco-fascists, the legislature and other fuckheads like you who won’t build more powerplants, but think it’s a great idea to tell those with low incomes like old people or disabled people like my wife, who is affected greatly by both high and low tempuratures that they can’t be comfortable IN THEIR OWN FUCKING HOMES THAT THEY BOUGHT WITH THEIR OWN FUCKING MONEY. ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE ME THE FUCKING $20,000 DOLLARS TO EQUIP MY HOUSE WITH ENOUGH SOLAR PANEL CRAP SO I CAN GO “OFF THE GRID”, YOU SNEERING SHITHEAL FUCKHEAD? WE HAVE NO CHOICE IN WHERE WE GET OUR POWER THANKS TO AFOREMenTIONED LIBTARDS ASSHOLES. SO GO FUCK YOURSELF, JON. I HAVE NO DESIRE TO BE CIVIL WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK SUCH IDEAS HAVE MERIT. SELL YOUR FUCKING CAR , OR LIQUIDATE YOUR 401K AND GIVE ME THE MONEY. THEN YOU CAN TELL ME WHEN AND WHERE I CAN SET MY FUCKING THERMOSTAT, YOU FASCIST SHIT.
Love,
SGT Ted
PS. I highly doubt that those proposing this idiocy will have those FM Big Brother receivers in their offices.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 5:03 pm #
I think that the tenor of most of our responses being so different from SGT Ted’s is not really to our credit.
Comment by McGehee on 1/5 @ 5:14 pm #
That part really sells it.
Comment by jdm on 1/5 @ 5:28 pm #
Screw the children
Sigh. You were looking for an argument that could trump “it’s for your own good”. I like Sgt Ted’s suggestion better tho’.
Comment by daleyrocks on 1/5 @ 5:31 pm #
Charge what the market will bear for peak times.
And make people pay in real money. None of that fiat money bullshit.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 1/5 @ 5:35 pm #
“If you don’t want the grid telling you what you can take, then go off-grid. Then you can set your thermostat wherever you damn well please.”
The social plans are all the same; the social planners are all alike.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 1/5 @ 5:36 pm #
Should be “social plans are all different”, duh.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 5:39 pm #
I remember that one kid that had to go off the grid so the Terminator couldn’t come back from the future and kill him. That was an extreme situation. I’d hate to think that’s what we’ve come to.
Comment by Stan on 1/5 @ 5:51 pm #
“They don’t even light up right away, and they burn out faster than regular bulbs. ”
LMAO.
Comment by jon on 1/5 @ 5:58 pm #
So if all the coasts were wall-to-wall houses, the energy problem would go away? Sgt. Ted, I understand your desire to live in your house how you wish, but maintaining the connections to it requires some sorts of restraint on your part. If there’s a water or electricity shortage, you can pay extra or risk getting cut off or whatever, but unless you own the distribution system you don’t have any grounds to tell them they can’t ration your usage. You can complain, but you won’t win. I’m not saying the proposed rules aren’t asinine, especially since they are, but I am saying it is largely necessary because we waste a hell of a lot of energy.
And in case you didn’t notice, I am okay with power plants. Hell, we need them. I’m one of those pro-nuclear liberals who thinks we should have loads of power and also build houses and other structures that use passive solar, gather rainwater, make use of recycled materials, and so forth. I drive a minivan that gets about the same crappy mileage as the average SUV, and I won’t give it up. (And it won’t buy many solar panels anyhow, since it’s a Ford.) And I also think hunting is okay, I support all ten parts of the Bill of Rights, and think you are an asshole. Low incomes and disabilities may make it less easy to deal with heat and cold, but that’s just more of a reason why we need to all cut back a little and socialize our need to keep the power running for everyone, not less of one. In case you don’t remember, this energy-saving plan is to reduce the likelihood of blackouts, not just something the companies and government thought of just to fuck with your disabled wife. But go ahead, think it’s all about you. You pay for it, so fuck everybody else’s disabled wife.
Cordially yours,
Jon
Also, why do you rely on the legislature to make more power plants? Isn’t the free market supposed to take care of you? Oh yeah, it is. I love how one of the Governator’s first acts was to make a sweetheart deal with all the energy companies that screwed you Californians during that summer of blackouts. You got back pennies on the ill-gotten dollar. Good investment, that. But at least you got rid of that guy who mishandled that situation.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 1/5 @ 6:06 pm #
I’m confused…I thought that the “new” energy friendly flourescents lasted longer? They do, btw. I have just 4 of them in my dining room chandelier and they have lasted for two years so far. They were expensive, but I do believe that I have recouped that money already. Not from energy savings, as I don’t really even know how to keep track of that, but from not having to buy incandescents every few months. The dining room was my test “market”. I’d recommend them and I am in no way an eco freak. But I do like saving money.
Comment by Robin Roberts on 1/5 @ 6:18 pm #
It is going to be hilarious to see the environmentalists whine when they realize just how much mercury those compact flourescents put into the environment.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 6:19 pm #
I could care less if California has blackouts. My checks don’t even get deposited here. What I want to do is suck as much money out of this fucktard state as I can and then retire somewhere normal and most of my friends feel the same way even the liberals, though mostly they think they’re gonna retire to another country which is their call I guess.
Comment by Rob Thompson on 1/5 @ 6:19 pm #
As a Californian and an electronic designer, I pledge to defeat this menace through technology - and make sure I tell everyone else how to, as well.
Pure stupidity and posturing.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 1/5 @ 6:22 pm #
Robin, do the flourescents that I have in my dining room have mercury in them? If so, then oh well, back to incandescents.
Comment by mishu on 1/5 @ 6:29 pm #
I have just 4 of them in my dining room chandelier and they have lasted for two years so far.
Wow, you must entertain a lot. Nothing sells an intimate dining experience like florescent light.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 6:30 pm #
Blackouts are nature’s way of reminding people that liberals can’t run things for shit.
Comment by mishu on 1/5 @ 6:30 pm #
BTW. Hearing crap like this California proposal makes Chicago winters a bit more bearable.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 6:31 pm #
Oh don’t get me started on Chicago.
Comment by mishu on 1/5 @ 6:36 pm #
and
are contradictions. Which is it? Increase supply or fuck with demand?
Comment by mishu on 1/5 @ 6:37 pm #
Actually, I live in the ‘burbs hf.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 1/5 @ 6:38 pm #
Mishu, intimate? We have two young children. I’m not sure what intimate means anymore. Plus, they really aren’t that bright. These aren’t like the flourescent lights that are in office buildings. They really aren’t any brighter than the incandesecents that were there before. BUT if these are the same ones with the high mercury content, then that is a problem.
Comment by Lost My Cookies on 1/5 @ 6:39 pm #
“do the flourescents that I have in my dining room have mercury in them?”
No, that’s the fish. The flourescents are made with ground water from Love Canal filtered through a block of solid lead.
So don’t eat them.
The flourescents, I mean. Fish is good for you.
Comment by Lost My Cookies on 1/5 @ 6:41 pm #
Maybe that’s backwards. Flourescents good, fish bad.
Comment by Lost My Cookies on 1/5 @ 6:42 pm #
Hell, don’t eat anything but hydroponically raised carrots and you’ll be OK.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 6:42 pm #
Oh. I looked a move to Chicago in the face last year and quailed. I love the city so much and I’m not ruling it out but it’ll have to be a better set up then I could put together now. Plus Chicago does stupid things at pretty much the same tempo as LA.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 1/5 @ 6:47 pm #
Anyone want to bet that when the government officials declare an “emergency” and cut some elderly woman’s air conditioning, causing her death, that the blame will be placed squarely where it belongs — on anyone but the government officials?
Ah, well. They always said they want the US to be more like France.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 1/5 @ 6:48 pm #
Manage the lives of other people, of course!
Comment by RTO Trainer on 1/5 @ 7:00 pm #
Oh, Hells No.
Well, if its FM, it cartainly can be altered. Or blocked.
After I get a little research in on the gizmos I’ll publish plans on how to build a PCT jammer.
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 7:09 pm #
My flourescent bulbs that were supposed to last for years don’t. In the basement I’ve eaked years out of long lasting incandescent bulbs over the washer. The last flourescent I put there didn’t last 12 weeks.
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 7:11 pm #
I may get a bulb cam to prove the short life, my hate is so strong.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 7:14 pm #
My turtle UV light blew out last night and glass went everywhere and I’m just glad the turtles had finished basking and were sleeping underwater cause it could have been ugly and now I have to figure out how to get the rest of the bulb out of the lamp. So there’s that too.
Comment by SGT Ted on 1/5 @ 7:14 pm #
Also, why do you rely on the legislature to make more power plants? Isn’t the free market supposed to take care of you?
Your arguement is backwards jon. There is no free market for energy in CA. Thats the fucking point. The legislature hasd seen to that. The body that is proposing to ration the use isn’t part of a free market, either. It is GOVERNMENT that is fucking us, not the market. The government has sucked the dick of every enviro-looloo that complains about a smokestack or nukeplant at the expense of people who want available power and in fact they sucked away and ignored their job of providing the infrastructer necessary to sustain the population growth; ie NO GROWTH; and this is what we get when those bozos prevail. So, fuck you some more, jon. This isn’t about lack of conservation. This is about shitty government.
Comment by SGT Ted on 1/5 @ 7:25 pm #
And another thing. The very idea that California’s problems stem from the market is fucking stupid. This state is the MOST regulated State in the nation when it comes to power generation. That isn’t a result of the free market. It’s the result of Government by eco-whacko lawsuit.
Comment by SGT Ted on 1/5 @ 7:32 pm #
OK I just took a Zoloft and chugged a handmade Black and Tan. I’m mellowing out now.
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 7:33 pm #
Tip I’ve actually used for broken bulb removal - turn off the power to the fixture, and stick a raw potato into the remains, and twist. It worked!
I’m told part of mortal-coil shuffling of my CFL bulbs is related to them hanging upside down, and repeatedly being turned on for very brief intervals, and the voltage spikiness in my house. They can’t hack what the incandescents could.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 7:34 pm #
You’re spot on. I could be hardcore venomous but I’m starting to get something of a rep as it is.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 7:36 pm #
Oh - I had forgotten about that potato thing but I wonder if that’ll work if NO glass is left. It totally blew. But I’ll try that. Oh and thanks for the tip about turning off the power. ;)
Comment by RTO Trainer on 1/5 @ 7:37 pm #
So should my jammer be grape? Or should I give them the Raspberry?
Comment by alppuccino on 1/5 @ 7:37 pm #
No matter how nice jon tries to be, he always comes across as a dick.
weird
Comment by RTO Trainer on 1/5 @ 7:38 pm #
If there’s no glass in it, with the power off, you shoud be able to bend teh metal edge just enough to get a needlenose pliers on it.
Comment by SGT Ted on 1/5 @ 7:39 pm #
I think the raspberry is completely appropriate.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 7:40 pm #
Ok - I can try that. Again thanks for the power off thing. I’m gonna write that down.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 1/5 @ 7:52 pm #
Can’t agree with the claim that compact fluorescents have short lives. I’ve had some in my basement that have 4+ years of life. Also, I’ve used them on aquariums and had them last 4 years, on for twelve hours a day, still pumping out enough light to grow plants.
Comment by Pablo on 1/5 @ 7:52 pm #
Cut a potato in half and jam the cut end onto the broken shards of still attached glass. Then unscrew.
Oh, and fuck your fluorescent lightbulbs and your big brother thermostat. I’m of a mind to buy a bunch of big honking generators and a jillion gallons of gas, take them out to the woods and destroy Gaia singlehandedly while I drink icy cold beer and giggle maniacally in temperate comfort created by running both the heat and the AC at the same time.
Comment by alppuccino on 1/5 @ 7:55 pm #
“still pumping out enough light to grow plants.”
Medicinal, I trust.
Comment by Pablo on 1/5 @ 7:56 pm #
I suppose I ought to refresh a thread like this after reading and before commenting. That shit works, tho. Honest Injun.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 7:57 pm #
Pablo’s so trying to get me killed. Y’all saw that right?
Comment by Pablo on 1/5 @ 7:59 pm #
Does everyone have to tell you to unplug the fucker, feets? Besides, 120 won’t kill you. It’ll prolly just toss you across the room. :-)
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 8:00 pm #
Oh. I mean I had notes already but with me it doesn’t hurt to reiterate.
Comment by Pablo on 1/5 @ 8:01 pm #
Some lessons are more profoundly learned through experience.
Comment by Pablo on 1/5 @ 8:03 pm #
Like those ones about certain diseases you can get. Sure, it all makes sense and it’s good to keep in mind, and you know you ought to….but try pissing fire for a week or two. That will wake you right up.
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 8:09 pm #
Rob, I’m not saying you don’t get long life out of your bulbs, in your house, the way you use them.
But my proof ithey just don’t hack what the old bulbs did, is that they have been dying off quick - they fail rapidly compared to the box life. 12 weeks for the last bulb. 12. weeks.
CFL’s have a shorter life if you turn them on and off for brief periods. Which is as long as anyone would ever want to stay in my basement. I suppose I could leave them on all the time and they might last longer.
CFL’s also dont last as long in upside down or pendant fixtures, ballast above burner, unless they are specially made for a pendant fixture, the extra heat wears them out. And the voltage variances we get are CFL unfriendly, I am told.
Add the fact they don’t light up right away, which you don’t want to go down my basement stairs until they do, cast the nastiest creepy light compared to a soft white, and make a gawdawful vibrato ping noise that never settles down, I can’t believe any one can stand them, let alone stand for having them made mandatory.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 8:09 pm #
Oh man. What’s good is I’m just a few blocks from that clinic where the porn stars go to get certified. They have a coatrack there made out of dildos.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 8:15 pm #
They’re sort of specialists in that sort of thing is all.
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 8:23 pm #
Happyfeet - That potato trick was a suggestion I once heard for when you need to get the old bulb out but can’ t tell if the power is off or on. Instead of turning the power off, wear a tesla cage and sneakers.
Comment by McGehee on 1/5 @ 8:24 pm #
Sorry, jdm. I just wanted to use that Michael Jackson line, is all.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 8:24 pm #
Thanks, Sarah, but I’m gonna google that just to be sure.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 1/5 @ 8:31 pm #
Sarah, I think you got some bad flourescents. I have to agree with Rob, here. Like I said, I only have the four of them in the dining room and that light is turned on and off all the time. They have lasted for a long time. My only experience with them is that they do last.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 8:35 pm #
Not naming any names but I find the whole “C’mon gang, let’s change our lightbulbs!” business replete with graph to be sort of… maybe it’s some kind of eco-culture shock or some kind of taste of what it’s like to be European, but it makes me cringe a little.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 8:38 pm #
“replete with graph” makes no sense really, but that’s how I feel.
Comment by Joe on 1/5 @ 8:38 pm #
From my cold dead hand!
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 1/5 @ 8:45 pm #
Happyfeet, I’m not actively advocating changing light bulbs. I just did it to save a little cash and I did. I’m the ulitmate dowhatchalike kind of guy.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 8:51 pm #
Oh - I didn’t mean you, OI, that’s this other guy. I have them too mostly. I have no issues with them really at all except I can’t get the fixture in the bathroom back on… I’ve broken two trying so now the third one just sits on my bathroom counter. It’s not that the bulb is too big for the fixture it’s just I dunno I keep breaking it.
Comment by cynn on 1/5 @ 9:23 pm #
Are you talking about those coil lightbulbs that blink a lot when you turn them on and seem to give out intermittent light? I’m not having luck with them in my ceiling fans. Apparently they don’t like to be jiggled a lot. Plus, they’re ugly; but so’s granola, and that’s good for me too.
Comment by John Lynch on 1/5 @ 9:50 pm #
Sgt. Ted: a great direct frontal response!
For my part:
Today, at Lowes, buying insulation for my new copper piping (replacing old iron pipes in the house,) getting light bulbs was a challenge. I have about 20 or so little flourescent replacement bulbs, but two out of three fan bulbs blew sometime ago, and I needed replacements. The fan lights are on a dimmer.
Me: So, I’m supposed to buy flourescent, what kind do I buy for my dimmer controlled fan?
Lowes Guy: You don’t.
Me: What about my decorative wall sconces with the little flame-shaped bulbs?
Lowes Guy: You don’t.
Me: What about the track lights and recessed spots?
Lowes Guy: You don’t.
Me: I can tell this new legislation is going to work out well.
Lowes Guy: Well, I suspect they’re going to have to modify that law a few times before 2012, ’cause it is not going to work.
Me: So where are the 60 Watt long-life incandescents?
Comment by Annoying Old Guy on 1/5 @ 10:02 pm #
I’m with SarahW on CFL lifespans. We switched over to CFL’s two or three years ago and we still buy new ones every few months to keep our house lit. I think they last somewhat longer for us than incandescents, but not a whole lot longer.
I also like SarahW’s suggestion to just keep them on all the time. That’s a good way to save energy with CFLs!
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 11:06 pm #
Flourescents use more energy to “start up” than incandescents. You are supposed to keep them on at least 15 minutes at a time to get energy benefit, and to get typical life out of the bulbs.
In my basement, I turn the lights on and off in intervals of maybe five minutes or so. Including the time I stand at the top of the stairs waiting for light. So, what good are they for me. Not much.
Comment by SarahW on 1/5 @ 11:10 pm #
Not that I stand there like Glenn Close waiting for a phone call, mind. It’s just that there are lights that get turned on down there for only very short periods. Maybe I’d stay down there longer if they weren’t so noisy and the light weren’t so creepy.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/5 @ 11:49 pm #
What I think about this while I pause Disturbia is that if commercial properties were forced to meter tenants and do away with arrangements where electric bills are paid by the management company you’d save a hundred times the energy that this lightbulb nonsense would save. Or a lot more anyway. And there’d be nothing particularly draconain about that but for the cost of installing meters, which at the very least could just be an expense. So what I think while I’m wondering if there’s really a compelling reason to finish watching this movie is that the lightbulb thing is just a test to see if the monkey will dance, not so much to really save energy. It’s a superneat precedent for further explorations in societal perfectability, or at least that’s what if feels like to me, comrades. It’s cool that the killer’s from Texas I guess.
Comment by Mike C. on 1/5 @ 11:54 pm #
hf, I’ve also found that a wooden broomhandle can work nicely, too, especially if the lights are in the ceiling or if you’re on a low-carb diet and don’t have spuds around the house. Also has the added advantage of not endangering your life if you use Pablo’s method.
Our house is almost entirely recessed cans and ceiling fans so CFL’s are not really an option. My wife did buy some a few months ago, though, for the lamps in the bedroom. We tried them but the light was eerie so we went back to incandescents after one day.
I’ve heard in some places that the future is LED’s not CFL’s. Unfortunately, it’s likely that government mandates will force the intermediate technology and delay the superior technology.
Comment by J. Peden on 1/6 @ 12:00 am #
Simply for “efficiency” I went flourescent about 20 years ago, back when fixtures needed a costly, but very long lasting, separate screw-in ballast so that the lights - short clusters of tubes which then plugged into the ballasts - would come on instantly. They worked great. Some of the tube clusters must have lasted over 10 years and put out very good light. And I figured I was set for life, what with my 16 ballasts. But the lights themselves lasted long enough that - I found out last year - they don’t make lights which fit my ballasts anymore, while the light Company itself is still alive and well.
Naturally, I’m soured, but am trying the new instant-on swirlies only because I got them cheap - about a dollar each. So far they’ve actually worked out very well in the living room where I’ve got five in the main overhead fixture, and in a bathroom where there are four.
I’ve also got 4 eight-foot fluorescent tubes in my kitchen. When they function properly, their light is fine. But one fixture of 2 tubes, which is now totally new, keeps going on and off randomly, hums, and just yesterday started making crackling noises. So I paid my home insurance. At least the old assembly was not crackling.
Getting rid of those eight-foot tubes is no fun either. You can’t just throw them out in the back yard or burn them like you can so many other things - such as anything organic and tires, for example. [You've got to burn the tires at night -joke.] So, over 30 years for them, I started to accumulate a small stock of old tubes. Fortuneately, an electrician took them off my hands before I had finally decided to break them up, inhale, and take them to the dump.
I do still have 6 old circular flourescents working well after many years, and I’ve also kept one 18″ straight tube going continuously for about 18 months partly because I’m afraid to turn it off, since some self-contained linear fixtures like this refuse to turn back on.
I’ve also heard from a professional photographer that flourescent light can screw-up quality photographs, over time.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/6 @ 12:09 am #
Ok. At least the first 42 minutes of this boring movie are superfluous and also it’s important to remember that the saving associated with the lightbulb fiat is only derived from the bulbs that would have been bought without this law, I think by and large people have been using them where it has made sense. Except maybe poor people, and poor people get a special electric rate at least here anyway, so I’m not quite sure how that all nets out, but what I do know is that very few poor people in California have central air. Most apartments do the window unit thing as well, even the nice ones unless they’re brand new, so on some level the thermostat thinger is “better” targeted, and will be paid only by those people who by and large can afford to put in back-up window units for when the power nazis flip their little switches.
Point is, it’ll never stop, and Nazi Jon’s paradigm is very real. If you remember that one of the things they can pretty much already do is send Internet through power lines, there’s really no limit to how perfectly efficient and in line with the five-year plans our household energy consumption can be.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/6 @ 12:17 am #
Oh. Cool - I can try the broom thing too. I have to wait til maybe tomorrow cause I want to do it on the balcony in case there’s glass and we’ve been “battered” and “pummeled” by, um, rain the last couple days.
Comment by Mike C. on 1/6 @ 12:41 am #
Or they could just require that people have Internet access. With all of the technological changes that have allowed so much to be on the Internet it won’t be long before Internet access will be a “right”, like health care.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/6 @ 12:53 am #
That’s the caption to that picture in the article you linked. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see the home becoming an extension of the classroom, with attendance-taking webcams and everything. Wow. This post is starting to seem really really dark.
Comment by Mike C. on 1/6 @ 12:55 am #
Can’t help it. We’re watching the Democratic debate. After “change” the most-used word is “mandate”. It’s Charlie Gibson and the 4 Big Brothers.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/6 @ 2:06 am #
guy that Mr. Reynolds links jumped more to the web-cam idea like I did, but his commenters took it in the censorship direction which is probably more insightful I think.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/6 @ 2:07 am #
there should be a this up there
Comment by SGT Ted on 1/6 @ 6:36 am #
But one fixture of 2 tubes, which is now totally new, keeps going on and off randomly, hums, and just yesterday started making crackling noises.
That sounds like the ballast is going. You might want to replace it before you have to file a claim.
Comment by Obstreperous Infidel on 1/6 @ 8:19 am #
Odd…my light in the dining room turns right on, just as with an incandescent. They have lasted for a couple of years already and the light is just as soft as incandescents. I do have the long flourescents in one bathroom and the kitchen and they have lasted 4 four years and they, too, come right on. No flickering waiting for them to come on. Although, I know this is very common for those types of flourescents. Either I have “amazing” flourescent lights or you guys have got some lemons.
Comment by Dan Kauffman on 1/6 @ 8:19 am #
Back in my college days one of the nightly chores of me and my roomates was to go to the Chem=Physics Bldg and get two buckets of crushed ice for our drinks
AND
To put in plastic bag and hang over our small apt bldg’s
(two units downstairs two units upstairs and an attic apt)
LOCKED Thermostat.
As long as you have ice in the winter or maybe hang up a hair dryer in the summer
YOU can control your thermostat
Comment by McGehee on 1/6 @ 8:36 am #
Dan, that ice trick wouldn’t work but so well if some doofus in the administration building had a remote so he could turn off your heat regardless of what the thermostat says.
Comment by steveaz on 1/6 @ 8:58 am #
Ding Dong! This is your last warning!!
Get-Off-Grid-NOW!
Or, Darleen, and associated grid-dependents, you will be a victim of this sort of creeping collectivism.
For those of you on a municipal water-grid, I expect they’ll be telling you when you can flush your toilet soon. You can preempt that power-grab by goin’ “Raincatch.” Just install large cisterns to pull you thru droughts.
For all you renters out there who cannot make home-conversions, you are caught firmly in the social-engineers’ fly-traps: Serfdom sucks but I understand. First chance you get though, schuck off your land-lord and become a home-owner.
There’s lots of inexpensive land in Nevada, New Mexico and Arizona. Escape the urban confines folks, and become your own women, ASAP.
Comment by Rusty on 1/6 @ 9:53 am #
JPeden. Change the ballast on that fixture, it’s gonna fail soon. As for fluorescent bulb disposal, Get a nine foot length of 4 inch pvc pipe and install a threaded cap fixture on each end. Place the bulb inside, screw the end on and drop it from shoulder height. Double bag the remains. BTW there isn’t enough mercury in 100 fluoresent bulbs to make a thermometer.
I like halogen light over fluorescent light. I don’t think the bulbs last any longer, but they use less electricity and the quality of the light is better.
Comment by steveaz on 1/6 @ 10:25 am #
Rusty, ever smell feathers burning?
I was told that, because halogen bulbs create so much heat, they are much less efficient than flourescent bulbs.
I’m not sure how much less efficient they are than the new compact flourescents, but, I can attest that my friend’s budgerigar almost burned to death when he landed on top of an exposed halogen bulb.
Comment by Darleen on 1/6 @ 10:59 am #
I’m unclear on whether halogen’s are considered incandescents via the law …they are infact a type of incandescent bulb.
And won’t it be fun to have to have a flashlight handy when looking in your refrigerator for a snack? Or checking how the cookies are baking in the oven? CFL’s don’t handle extreme temps.
Comment by mojo on 1/6 @ 11:53 am #
Uh-huh…
Good luck enforcing that shit.
Comment by mojo on 1/6 @ 11:54 am #
PS: The xmitter may be “non-removable”, but I bet chopping the antenna would put a crimp in it’s operation.
Comment by Rusty on 1/6 @ 1:58 pm #
Oooh. I bet that hurt tweetys little feet. I have them around the house instead of desk lamps or reading lamps. Mine were initially designed for industrial purposes, but I like the light much more than fluorescents. Better, in my opinion, for reading and fiddly stuff like tying flies.
Comment by Kresh on 1/6 @ 4:11 pm #
Well, this just shows that the lefty-enviro-mentalists don’t know their lightbulbs. Probably from never having a new idea in the last 40 years.
Get it? New idea = old-style incandescent appearing over… their… heads… oh never mind. It’s a dumb joke.
Still, I’m sure some of them don’t mind having a dark ‘fridge or oven. Then again, they are socialists, so they’ll have plenty of access to the incandescent bulbs they need, while the serfs get only the “Mercury Vapor” bulbs. /shrug
Comment by JosephSomsel on 1/6 @ 5:22 pm #
I wrote the American Thinker article.
Some of you got my point - the state creates a problem then takes away your freedom to mitigate the effects of the problem. The RIGHT answer is build some more nukes - here’s a plan:
http://www.energypulse.net/centers/article/article_display.cfm?a_id=788
The rules on who and when the PCTs are actived have yet to be written. Your local utility will push the button but the big call will come from the California Independent (ha!) System Operator (CAISO), a state agency in charge of running the grid.
I don’t see where the California Energy Commission has the statutory authority from the legislature to impose this on us. Call your assemblyman or state senator and ask them if they voted for it. I’ll bet they don’t want to take the heat (so to speak.)
The FM system will use a feature of the system called “Radio Data System” designed into it by FCC rules. So far, RDS-equipped tuners can display the station call letters, song playing and trivial stuff like that. Hackable? Definitely.
Wait until they start exploiting the HDRadio features that have even more bandwidth for data.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/6 @ 5:38 pm #
I like your nuclear plan and I think you could burnish the argument by quantifying the amount of exported dollars it would displace. What I like most about it really is that the success of a project like this should help pave the way for purely commercial nuclear plants in the future.
Comment by JosephSomsel on 1/6 @ 6:22 pm #
My nuke plan is a few years old. I’d be happy if Warren Buffet follows through and build a nuke in Idaho for profit to ship the power into the state. You can do that in Arizona too.
You are correct that this ships money out of state. Just local property taxes are tens of millions a year to local governments, not to mention the thousand or so well paid jobs at a nuke.
Comment by happyfeet on 1/6 @ 8:24 pm #
I’m not holding my breath though. I tried that with the LA to Vegas high speed rail thing and that didn’t turn out too good.
Comment by Dishman on 1/6 @ 8:57 pm #
I’ve dealt with the State of California on a few projects.
In general, they have no clue about security.
This is another one of their attrociously bad ideas.
Any radio signal can be hijacked. If you knew someone was using a sleeping pill or otherwise unlikely to wake, you could turn their AC on full blast in emergency mode and kill them without leaving any evidence.
Comment by Swen Swenson on 1/7 @ 4:06 am #
More evidence that Orwell was an optimist.
We’ve been using CFLs for a couple years now and never had one burn out. They don’t flicker or make any noise (at least that I can hear, too many gratuitously loud noises). The quality of light is pretty variable though. We bought some that gave a harsh, blue light an arc welder would be proud of. Those we’re currently using in living spaces — the blue ones being banned to the garage — give a soft white light that’s indistinguishable from a GE Soft White (I think they’re made by GE but can’t remember and we’re currently vacationing in the sunny (ha) south). We do notice that it takes a couple minutes for them to ‘warm up’ and give full illumination.
At least in theory we’re saving tons of money on electricity ans we’re certainly saving money on light bulbs, not having to replace them continuously. Still, banning incandescents seems pretty outrageous and a radio-controlled thermostat is way over the top.
I’m reminded again to be glad I don’t live in California. Now if we could only convince the Californians to keep that nonsense at home and stop exporting it, and themselves, to Wyoming, Colorado, and Montana. (Can you believe they want to ban drive-up windows at bars? Where’s a person to get their gin & tonic freshened on a long road trip?)
Comment by Swen Swenson on 1/7 @ 4:14 am #
Delete “s”, insert “d”, have a cup of coffee. I’m a free market kind o’ guy but when they outsource the telemarketing to India they really should explain about time zones and not to call people at 3am..
Comment by Swen Swenson on 1/7 @ 4:19 am #
Because 3 am phone calls are reserved for the oldsters and their health crises, so come with a bit of throat-tightening and a good jolt of adrenaline. Couldn’t sleep now if I wanted to and I want to.
Comment by Andrew on 1/7 @ 9:11 am #
Deep Breath…
Okay, Everybody:
“A Developer is someone who wants to build a House in the Woods. An Environmentalist is someone who already owns a house in the woods.”
You couldn’t pay me to live in California. Third-Biggest state in the union, and the housing prices are through the roof, over the chimney, and up to the damn ionosphere. That requires some Grade-A, Farm-Fresh stupid to put together.
Comment by Karl on 1/7 @ 9:18 am #
Look! A Jonah-lanche! Anyone new to PW, please take a look around. We didn’t have time to pick up all the socks, but…
Comment by happyfeet on 1/7 @ 9:30 am #
Hmmm. I’m thinking the Corner may be more cooler than I had thought.
Comment by carbuzzard on 1/7 @ 9:44 am #
Easy solution: a little box that hangs over your thermostat that has its own thermostat. You set where you want your temperature and the box provides the air temp necessary to maintain desired temperature. Warming the artificial ambient (for a cooler room temperature) would be easy enough with a little heating coil. A tiny refrigerator would work for warmer room temperatures but wouldn’t be practical, but surely some sort of tiny swamp cooler (using evaporative cooling) would work. It could be the HVAC equivalent of the radar detector. Maybe it could be sold as a “thermostat test unit”?
Oh, yeah, you’d get a free set of ginsu knives with it, too.
Comment by Mace on 1/7 @ 11:04 am #
California’s policy is to avoid using the the price mechanism at all costs – a good definition of Socialism.
Suppose I adopt a very modest lifestyle. I move out of my house (2000 sq ft) into a townhouse of 1100 square feet. I’ve reduced my energy use substantially as a result, both for heating and cooling costs. Under this proposal, I still have to “share†the pain by having my thermostat temperature raised during hot summer days, even though I’m using 50% less energy than the average. Yet another perfect description of Socialism – sharing the misery.
Notice how the price mechanism solves this problem and produces the most efficient solution. Of course, it “disproportionately hurts the poor,†another Socialist mantra.
So what are we supposed to do when California screws with people’s A/C to the point that it starts killing the elderly? Burn the capital down?
Comment by otcconan on 1/7 @ 11:29 am #
For some reason I’m reminded of the time(s) I hit an exposed flourescent fixture with a pallet lift. There’s this spot in our back room at work where the ceiling lowered by about 20 ft. I’d be stacking pallets with the lift, and just forget where I was. (Brrrrr…up goes pallet lift…..crunch crunch crunch pop BOOM!) Down comes a shower of glass on top of my head. Luckily when they go, usually the pieces are small. Each time it’s happened, I’ve found myself washing glass out of my hair when I get home.
Agreed that JPeden needs to change his ballast out. If the crackling comes with an acrid smell, doubly so.
This is honestly, the most idiotic, fascist, piece of legislation I’ve EVER seen proposed in the United States of America. Moreso, even, than HillaryCare.
Jon’s arguments that one should go off the grid if they don’t like it, is asinine. Those people PAY for that power, so the government has no business telling them what to DO with that power. If I want to run up my bill to $400 a month just so I have boiling hot water coming out of my tap, it’s MY business how high I set my water heater.
And the whole, “it’s not that big a deal” thing is missing the point. This is one of those things where you give them this power, and pretty soon they’ll be telling you how often you can watch your T.V…how many hours you can run your computer…what hours you can light your home…how cold you can set your refrigerator (and who want’s lukewarm beer?)…when you can wash your dishes… and then you’ll begin to get a list of appliances that are home-approved…hey! The government says your house only needs 1 refrigerator! Senator Dumbass says you don’t need that stand-alone freezer. No need for that humidifier…here’s a pack of silica gel.
I don’t want to give away ANY of my freedoms. Because that means I’ve given away ALL of them.
Comment by Gabriel Fry on 1/7 @ 11:31 am #
So if you don’t like over-regulated socialist laboratories, why would you live in California? Do you have a fetish for oppression? Do you get a rush from the idea that you’re throwing your body on the machine? Doesn’t that make you a goddamn hippie in sheep’s clothing? The Californian market (a bunch of goddamn hippies) demanded more regulation. You choose to live in that market as a dissenting minority because… you enjoy complaining? Move away. It’s not like anyone lives in CA because it’s cheap.
Comment by otcconan on 1/7 @ 11:33 am #
Oh, I don’t. I live in the Republic of Texas. You’d have to raise my income to six figures before I’d even CONSIDER California.
Comment by Jeff on 1/7 @ 11:54 am #
If I were a California resident I would buy in-window air conditioners (the least efficient ones I could find) and electric space heaters for my year round climate control comfort.
When you pay for my electricity without using my taxes then you can try to set my thermostat, until then you’ll have to pry that control out of my cold or hot and sweaty dead hands.
If my central system was preset by the state I would use it one day a month every month, with all of my windows ond doors wide open while running my lawn sprinklers at full capacity, idiling my car in the driveway, cooking my meals on a BBQ and with every light inside and outside the house turned on.
Socialism is evil and a proven failure. When will some people actually get it …
Comment by Jeff on 1/7 @ 11:58 am #
First them came for the “rich” peoples money …
then they came for the not so rich peoples money …
then they came for our cigarettes …
then they came for our trans fats …
now they come for our right to choose to be hotter or colder in our own homes …
Why is it that abortion is the only right a liberal will defend ?
Comment by Jeff on 1/7 @ 12:02 pm #
Isn’t making California more energy efficient by simply turning off or adjusting your thermostat the same as reducing CO2 emmissions from your car by taking away your keys ? Think of the possibilities for population growth …
Comment by Gabriel Fry on 1/7 @ 12:09 pm #
If you’re rich, you have tax shelters…
If you’re not so rich, you probably also have tax shelters…
If you smoke, you can roll your own…
If you like trans-fats, you can cook your own…
If you like climate control, you can generate your own…
It’s almost as though these liberals are pushing us headlong towards the libertarian utopia.
Kicking and screaming.
Comment by Energyguy on 1/7 @ 12:12 pm #
I am an energy consultant that has worked with utilities in California and other states on smart (two way communicating) meters and related technologies like the programmable communicating thermostat (PCT). I have also worked with the CEC on aspects of Title 24 related to the PCT.
Most people in CA won’t be directly affected by Title 24 because the utilities will get there first. The utilities don’t plan on using the FM RDS system, they’ll use their own communications infrastructure that will have far greater security. The utilities want to have smart meters that can talk to your PCT and raise the temperature a few degrees similar to Title 24. The difference is that the utilities want this to be a voluntary program that people sign up for and receive some sort of benefit. Customers will be able to over ride the temperature increase if they want, but because these systems have two-way communications (unlike Title 24), the utility can credit customers who participate vs. those that do not. Both the utilities and Title 24 foresee the need to have an emergency setting that is not over ridable. The emergency request is truly for emergencies when the voluntary requests are not meeting the need and the choice is an emergency thermostat change or rolling blackouts.
I agree that Title 24 and the potential abuses of a state mandated program have negative implications for a free society. The utilities are going to use free market ideas to achieve better results far sooner.
Re: JosephSomsel - I disagree that more nuclear power helps this problem, though I am a proponent of more nuclear power (and solar and wind). This is not a base load problem. California utilities have to either build (and they have) a lot of generators that only run for about 100 hours per year to meet the increase in demand on the 10-20 hottest days of the year or try to buy it off the market at high prices assuming that there is even power to buy. California has about 17 gigawatts of air conditioner load on a really hot summer day. If they can provide customers incentives to reduce that load, they can save money on generators that rarely get used.
Comment by JosephSomsel on 1/7 @ 2:28 pm #
Mr. EnergyGuy,
I thought about that argument about nuclear but reasoned that an additional 6 GW of nukes (four new reactors) would reduce the usage of all that natural gas fired generation all the time. We’re not going to throw away those peakers although those last displaced 6 GW may need to go on deeper standby because demand will continue to grow.
So yes, new nuclear plants would reduce the risk of blackouts.
All that gas-fired generation will be a burden for us as North American gas peaks and declines and we come to depend more and more on Russian liquefied natural gas imports.
I admit I used a very hot button issue to get Californians’ attention on state energy policy. PCTs are just the first imposition (2nd, really, after CFLs) of our grand strategy - “conservation.” This has all sounded so pleasant and painless but here’s a concrete result of that strategy - the invasion of our homes and loss of our freedoms.
Now that we know that “conservation” really means, let us citizens rethink our strategy.
Saying it’s PCTs or other load demand control or else blackouts is a false choice. The REAL choice is rationing of electrical power by the state or building the generation to meet citizens’ demand.
Pingback by Two--Four on 1/7 @ 3:03 pm #
[...] It amazes me how many people do not or cannot draw this elementary distinction. (linked out of Protein Wisdom) Jan 06, 08 | 5:32 pm AxeBitesVarious guitars I see floating by, mostly Gibson and mostly eBay. [...]
Comment by Martin on 1/7 @ 4:06 pm #
California’s policies are almost as bad as the engineering of our electrical grid. The grid is so overburdened, experts say battery powered cars are not a feasible option in CA, not enough electricity available to recharge the batteries!
Pingback by First They Came for Our Lightbulbs… « AmeriCAN-DO Attitude on 1/7 @ 9:02 pm #
[...] Protein Wisdom (and American Thinker): I’m still fuming over the banning of the incandescent light bulb [...]
Pingback by Pickerhead :: Pickings from the Webvine ::January 8, 2008 on 1/8 @ 6:57 pm #
[...] start with a few items related to globaloney. First a scary item from Protein Wisdom about California’s efforts to control thermostats in homes. “First they came for the [...]
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